Friends is the dopiest, most basic show

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's dopey to you now but in the 90s it embodied the free-spirit of that time period before social media, before influencers, before iphones and all the crap that has basically ruined things for us now where we can't watch something without dissecting it apart a thousand ways. Friends worked then. It was sort of one-dimensional and dopey and that's what made it great. Just silly, fun tv that made you feel like you were hanging out with your friends. That's why I always loved it.

If OP thinks Friends is dopey, she has never watched, “Alf”, “Small Wonder”, “Silver Spoons”, “Mr. Belvedere” or other 80’s sitcoms!

Or the 90s sitcom Everybody Loves Raymond, which aired for NINE SEASONS and was syndicated for forever. I never watched that show when it was on in primetime but I have probably seen 100 episodes of it because it was heavily syndicated in the 00s and would come on like 4 times a day. I think I just kind of absorbed it into my system accidentally? It was funny when Ray Romano started becoming a more legitimate actor and getting better roles in more prestige shows, because he felt so familiar to me even though I don't think I ever intentionally watched an episode of that show.

There used to be just an endless supply of dopey, basic sitcoms on TV, and lots of them ran for many seasons. Actually, the more "mid" they were, the more likely they were to run because people (and advertisers) just wanted comfort food. The macaroni and cheese of entertainment -- simple, basic, mild, minimally nutritious, but somehow still filling and satisfying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was before "prestige TV." Before Sopranos and Arrested Development and Mad Men and Veep and all of it. Television used to be called the boob tube. You didn't stream it, you couldn't even record it unless you have a VCR and many people didn't, or didn't know how to program them, or couldn't be bothered to buy the blank tapes to record shows.

So you just sat down to watch TV at the appointed time listed in the newspaper or TV guid (yes, newspapers used to print weekly or nightly TV schedules). There were four broadcast networks, so you had 4 choices.

Shows that came on in the first hour of prime time (8pm EST, 7pm Mtn and Pacific) had to be palatable to an entire family, from a 5 year old to an 80 year old. So you got a lot of family sitcoms this way -- Family Matters, Cosby, Growing Pains, etc. After that, the youngest would often go to bed, so then you could put on shows like Friends or Seinfeld, with more adult themes (people had sex, though not on camera, they had more caustic humor, but never used bad words). It was actually controversial and there would be debates about whether these shows were appropriate even for teenagers because they shows things like premarital sexual relationships, people drinking and smoking cigarettes, people being rude to strangers or even breaking the law. Seinfeld was particularly controversial in this regard. Then the final hours of television would be given to more adult programming, but the sitcoms would give way to 1 hour dramas like ER or thirtysomething.

Fox upended a lot of this. It put a show like the Simpsons, which was billed as a family show but had a lot of more adult and transgressive themes, on at 7pm. A lot of it's dramas were aimed at HS students, like Beverly Hills 90210 and Dawson's Creek (Melrose Place was also very controversial). Fox had a reputation for pushing the limits and what themes you could put on evening television and there was a LOT of hand wringing about it.

In that context, Friends was actually pretty sophisticated for the era. It showed young people dating and having sex outside of marriage, pursuing various careers in sometimes non-traditional ways (like Phoebe being a masseuse or Chandler leaving his corporate job to go into advertising -- things people did in real life but that were considered outside the norm by middle America). And it did this in a comedy sitcom, not a "serious" drama. So Friends actually felt really fresh and cutting edge at the time. It had more DNA in common with Laverne & Shirley, Taxi, or Mary Tyler Moore than with the family sitcoms that populated most of 80s television. Even though it was filmed on a soundstage in LA, merely setting it in downtown Manhattan felt gritty in comparison. Similar with Seinfeld, also not filmed in NYC.

Friends is not a 2023 sitcom. Of course it feels old-fashioned and silly to you now. Things change.

Spot. On.

Yep. And people get it down on it now for homophobic comments but Friends was groundbreaking in featuring same-sex couples, like Ross's ex-wife who got married on TV. Also, while they made a joke of Chandler's trans mom, they still featured a trans character, which had never been done. You can't judge entertainment by current day attitudes. Progress is made in small steps.

[Anonymous]

Friends was stupid, basic, and not funny even when it first came out and it’s very cringe now.
I was in high school when it was first airing so I should’ve been part of their target audience.

[Anonymous]

I think it gets better/ funnier each time I watch it. Go find a sense of humor OP/ get your hormones checked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Friends was stupid, basic, and not funny even when it first came out and it’s very cringe now.
I was in high school when it was first airing so I should’ve been part of their target audience.

No, the target audience was older. Target demos for broadcast television are rarely minors because advertisers want to target buyers. Based on the stuff that used to get advertised during Friends, I would guess the target demo was something like 25-50 white people with and without kids, mostly suburban or lower density (not urban and not rural). I'm sure some HS students watched it, but largely because it was what the rest of the family was watching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was before "prestige TV." Before Sopranos and Arrested Development and Mad Men and Veep and all of it. Television used to be called the boob tube. You didn't stream it, you couldn't even record it unless you have a VCR and many people didn't, or didn't know how to program them, or couldn't be bothered to buy the blank tapes to record shows.

So you just sat down to watch TV at the appointed time listed in the newspaper or TV guid (yes, newspapers used to print weekly or nightly TV schedules). There were four broadcast networks, so you had 4 choices.

Shows that came on in the first hour of prime time (8pm EST, 7pm Mtn and Pacific) had to be palatable to an entire family, from a 5 year old to an 80 year old. So you got a lot of family sitcoms this way -- Family Matters, Cosby, Growing Pains, etc. After that, the youngest would often go to bed, so then you could put on shows like Friends or Seinfeld, with more adult themes (people had sex, though not on camera, they had more caustic humor, but never used bad words). It was actually controversial and there would be debates about whether these shows were appropriate even for teenagers because they shows things like premarital sexual relationships, people drinking and smoking cigarettes, people being rude to strangers or even breaking the law. Seinfeld was particularly controversial in this regard. Then the final hours of television would be given to more adult programming, but the sitcoms would give way to 1 hour dramas like ER or thirtysomething.

Fox upended a lot of this. It put a show like the Simpsons, which was billed as a family show but had a lot of more adult and transgressive themes, on at 7pm. A lot of it's dramas were aimed at HS students, like Beverly Hills 90210 and Dawson's Creek (Melrose Place was also very controversial). Fox had a reputation for pushing the limits and what themes you could put on evening television and there was a LOT of hand wringing about it.

In that context, Friends was actually pretty sophisticated for the era. It showed young people dating and having sex outside of marriage, pursuing various careers in sometimes non-traditional ways (like Phoebe being a masseuse or Chandler leaving his corporate job to go into advertising -- things people did in real life but that were considered outside the norm by middle America). And it did this in a comedy sitcom, not a "serious" drama. So Friends actually felt really fresh and cutting edge at the time. It had more DNA in common with Laverne & Shirley, Taxi, or Mary Tyler Moore than with the family sitcoms that populated most of 80s television. Even though it was filmed on a soundstage in LA, merely setting it in downtown Manhattan felt gritty in comparison. Similar with Seinfeld, also not filmed in NYC.

Friends is not a 2023 sitcom. Of course it feels old-fashioned and silly to you now. Things change.

Spot. On.

Yep. And people get it down on it now for homophobic comments but Friends was groundbreaking in featuring same-sex couples, like Ross's ex-wife who got married on TV. Also, while they made a joke of Chandler's trans mom, they still featured a trans character, which had never been done. You can't judge entertainment by current day attitudes. Progress is made in small steps.

It had been done many times, going back to the 1970s.

https://timelines.latimes.com/transgender-characters-film-tv-timeline/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friends was stupid, basic, and not funny even when it first came out and it’s very cringe now.
I was in high school when it was first airing so I should’ve been part of their target audience.

No, the target audience was older. Target demos for broadcast television are rarely minors because advertisers want to target buyers. Based on the stuff that used to get advertised during Friends, I would guess the target demo was something like 25-50 white people with and without kids, mostly suburban or lower density (not urban and not rural). I'm sure some HS students watched it, but largely because it was what the rest of the family was watching.

How long was Friends on? 10 seasons? So people in high school when it started would have been target audience by the time it was done. And should’ve been hooking them in during high school early college years. It’s a bad show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friends was stupid, basic, and not funny even when it first came out and it’s very cringe now.
I was in high school when it was first airing so I should’ve been part of their target audience.

No, the target audience was older. Target demos for broadcast television are rarely minors because advertisers want to target buyers. Based on the stuff that used to get advertised during Friends, I would guess the target demo was something like 25-50 white people with and without kids, mostly suburban or lower density (not urban and not rural). I'm sure some HS students watched it, but largely because it was what the rest of the family was watching.

How long was Friends on? 10 seasons? So people in high school when it started would have been target audience by the time it was done. And should’ve been hooking them in during high school early college years. It’s a bad show.

No, that's not how it works, because the show also ages and the characters generally age too. So viewers age with the characters and the storylines. That's why Friends started out being about somewhat directionless people in their 20s with money problems, all single, many trying to make ends meet and break into careers, and by the time it ended, they'd all experienced career progression and success, several had kids and been married (and/or divorced), their friendships had evolved, they were in very different financial situations, etc. So no, the show is unlikely to hook new viewers because it is no longer the show it was when it first aired, it's about different things and the characters are in a different part of life, and a person in their early to mid 20s won't be able to identify or be as interested. They'll be targeted by other shows.

I think people really forget how different appointment viewing was for the TV. Streaming changes everything becsue anyone can start a show from the pilot whenever they want. So if I decide I want to watch The West Wing tomorrow, I can watch it for the first time starting with the first episode and draw my own conclusions based on who I am today. But in the 90s it didn't work that way. Target demos used to be a much bigger deal because television revolved around advertising, and because in order to get someone to watch a show, you needed to be able to entice them when the show is airing. So airing the right shows at the right time on the right nights to capture the right audience was an art form, called programming, and networks invested a lot of money in it. Friends was engineered to capture a specific audience. You were not part of that audience. It's okay, neither was I. But it ran for 10 years, went into syndication, launched major careers for half a dozen actors, and made a TON of money. It was a successful show regardless of what you think of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friends was stupid, basic, and not funny even when it first came out and it’s very cringe now.
I was in high school when it was first airing so I should’ve been part of their target audience.

No, the target audience was older. Target demos for broadcast television are rarely minors because advertisers want to target buyers. Based on the stuff that used to get advertised during Friends, I would guess the target demo was something like 25-50 white people with and without kids, mostly suburban or lower density (not urban and not rural). I'm sure some HS students watched it, but largely because it was what the rest of the family was watching.

How long was Friends on? 10 seasons? So people in high school when it started would have been target audience by the time it was done. And should’ve been hooking them in during high school early college years. It’s a bad show.

No, that's not how it works, because the show also ages and the characters generally age too. So viewers age with the characters and the storylines. That's why Friends started out being about somewhat directionless people in their 20s with money problems, all single, many trying to make ends meet and break into careers, and by the time it ended, they'd all experienced career progression and success, several had kids and been married (and/or divorced), their friendships had evolved, they were in very different financial situations, etc. So no, the show is unlikely to hook new viewers because it is no longer the show it was when it first aired, it's about different things and the characters are in a different part of life, and a person in their early to mid 20s won't be able to identify or be as interested. They'll be targeted by other shows.

I think people really forget how different appointment viewing was for the TV. Streaming changes everything becsue anyone can start a show from the pilot whenever they want. So if I decide I want to watch The West Wing tomorrow, I can watch it for the first time starting with the first episode and draw my own conclusions based on who I am today. But in the 90s it didn't work that way. Target demos used to be a much bigger deal because television revolved around advertising, and because in order to get someone to watch a show, you needed to be able to entice them when the show is airing. So airing the right shows at the right time on the right nights to capture the right audience was an art form, called programming, and networks invested a lot of money in it. Friends was engineered to capture a specific audience. You were not part of that audience. It's okay, neither was I. But it ran for 10 years, went into syndication, launched major careers for half a dozen actors, and made a TON of money. It was a successful show regardless of what you think of it.

I didn’t deny that the show was successful-it obviously was. I still think it’s a dumb, not funny at all show. How many people love that show just proves how many people love corny jokes and stupid story lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friends was stupid, basic, and not funny even when it first came out and it’s very cringe now.
I was in high school when it was first airing so I should’ve been part of their target audience.

No, the target audience was older. Target demos for broadcast television are rarely minors because advertisers want to target buyers. Based on the stuff that used to get advertised during Friends, I would guess the target demo was something like 25-50 white people with and without kids, mostly suburban or lower density (not urban and not rural). I'm sure some HS students watched it, but largely because it was what the rest of the family was watching.

How long was Friends on? 10 seasons? So people in high school when it started would have been target audience by the time it was done. And should’ve been hooking them in during high school early college years. It’s a bad show.

No, that's not how it works, because the show also ages and the characters generally age too. So viewers age with the characters and the storylines. That's why Friends started out being about somewhat directionless people in their 20s with money problems, all single, many trying to make ends meet and break into careers, and by the time it ended, they'd all experienced career progression and success, several had kids and been married (and/or divorced), their friendships had evolved, they were in very different financial situations, etc. So no, the show is unlikely to hook new viewers because it is no longer the show it was when it first aired, it's about different things and the characters are in a different part of life, and a person in their early to mid 20s won't be able to identify or be as interested. They'll be targeted by other shows.

I think people really forget how different appointment viewing was for the TV. Streaming changes everything becsue anyone can start a show from the pilot whenever they want. So if I decide I want to watch The West Wing tomorrow, I can watch it for the first time starting with the first episode and draw my own conclusions based on who I am today. But in the 90s it didn't work that way. Target demos used to be a much bigger deal because television revolved around advertising, and because in order to get someone to watch a show, you needed to be able to entice them when the show is airing. So airing the right shows at the right time on the right nights to capture the right audience was an art form, called programming, and networks invested a lot of money in it. Friends was engineered to capture a specific audience. You were not part of that audience. It's okay, neither was I. But it ran for 10 years, went into syndication, launched major careers for half a dozen actors, and made a TON of money. It was a successful show regardless of what you think of it.

I didn’t deny that the show was successful-it obviously was. I still think it’s a dumb, not funny at all show. How many people love that show just proves how many people love corny jokes and stupid story lines.

I think Veep and Arrested Development are far funnier and more clever than Friends but I still love Friends for what it is.

These critiques remind me of the time I heard a movie critic panning Wayne's World and comparing it to some Oscar-winning film to prove how bad it was. The thing is, Wayne's World was never supposed to be an Oscar contender. It wasn't a serious film. It was dopey and stupid but also likeable and funny. I feel like people who say Friends wasn't funny, etc., aren't appreciating it for what it was. It wasn't Seinfeld or Frasier, which were wittier and more clever. It was cinnamon toast when you're home sick. Chicken nuggets with fries when you've had a bad day. It was comfort food in the form of a show.

You're still entitled to not like it, of course. But I feel like panning it for being dopey and basic is really missing the point. That's exactly what it was supposed to be!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friends was stupid, basic, and not funny even when it first came out and it’s very cringe now.
I was in high school when it was first airing so I should’ve been part of their target audience.

No, the target audience was older. Target demos for broadcast television are rarely minors because advertisers want to target buyers. Based on the stuff that used to get advertised during Friends, I would guess the target demo was something like 25-50 white people with and without kids, mostly suburban or lower density (not urban and not rural). I'm sure some HS students watched it, but largely because it was what the rest of the family was watching.

How long was Friends on? 10 seasons? So people in high school when it started would have been target audience by the time it was done. And should’ve been hooking them in during high school early college years. It’s a bad show.

No, that's not how it works, because the show also ages and the characters generally age too. So viewers age with the characters and the storylines. That's why Friends started out being about somewhat directionless people in their 20s with money problems, all single, many trying to make ends meet and break into careers, and by the time it ended, they'd all experienced career progression and success, several had kids and been married (and/or divorced), their friendships had evolved, they were in very different financial situations, etc. So no, the show is unlikely to hook new viewers because it is no longer the show it was when it first aired, it's about different things and the characters are in a different part of life, and a person in their early to mid 20s won't be able to identify or be as interested. They'll be targeted by other shows.

I think people really forget how different appointment viewing was for the TV. Streaming changes everything becsue anyone can start a show from the pilot whenever they want. So if I decide I want to watch The West Wing tomorrow, I can watch it for the first time starting with the first episode and draw my own conclusions based on who I am today. But in the 90s it didn't work that way. Target demos used to be a much bigger deal because television revolved around advertising, and because in order to get someone to watch a show, you needed to be able to entice them when the show is airing. So airing the right shows at the right time on the right nights to capture the right audience was an art form, called programming, and networks invested a lot of money in it. Friends was engineered to capture a specific audience. You were not part of that audience. It's okay, neither was I. But it ran for 10 years, went into syndication, launched major careers for half a dozen actors, and made a TON of money. It was a successful show regardless of what you think of it.

I didn’t deny that the show was successful-it obviously was. I still think it’s a dumb, not funny at all show. How many people love that show just proves how many people love corny jokes and stupid story lines.

Are you the OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was excited to share it with my teen DDs because it was one of my favorite shows. They hated it and deemed it "so cringe" and "mid" so that was fun.

Your DDs are absolutely right! It was cringe and mid even back then.
They all looked so basic and boring except maybe Courtney Cox. Humor on a level of dad's jokes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friends was stupid, basic, and not funny even when it first came out and it’s very cringe now.
I was in high school when it was first airing so I should’ve been part of their target audience.

No, the target audience was older. Target demos for broadcast television are rarely minors because advertisers want to target buyers. Based on the stuff that used to get advertised during Friends, I would guess the target demo was something like 25-50 white people with and without kids, mostly suburban or lower density (not urban and not rural). I'm sure some HS students watched it, but largely because it was what the rest of the family was watching.

How long was Friends on? 10 seasons? So people in high school when it started would have been target audience by the time it was done. And should’ve been hooking them in during high school early college years. It’s a bad show.

No, that's not how it works, because the show also ages and the characters generally age too. So viewers age with the characters and the storylines. That's why Friends started out being about somewhat directionless people in their 20s with money problems, all single, many trying to make ends meet and break into careers, and by the time it ended, they'd all experienced career progression and success, several had kids and been married (and/or divorced), their friendships had evolved, they were in very different financial situations, etc. So no, the show is unlikely to hook new viewers because it is no longer the show it was when it first aired, it's about different things and the characters are in a different part of life, and a person in their early to mid 20s won't be able to identify or be as interested. They'll be targeted by other shows.

I think people really forget how different appointment viewing was for the TV. Streaming changes everything becsue anyone can start a show from the pilot whenever they want. So if I decide I want to watch The West Wing tomorrow, I can watch it for the first time starting with the first episode and draw my own conclusions based on who I am today. But in the 90s it didn't work that way. Target demos used to be a much bigger deal because television revolved around advertising, and because in order to get someone to watch a show, you needed to be able to entice them when the show is airing. So airing the right shows at the right time on the right nights to capture the right audience was an art form, called programming, and networks invested a lot of money in it. Friends was engineered to capture a specific audience. You were not part of that audience. It's okay, neither was I. But it ran for 10 years, went into syndication, launched major careers for half a dozen actors, and made a TON of money. It was a successful show regardless of what you think of it.

I didn’t deny that the show was successful-it obviously was. I still think it’s a dumb, not funny at all show. How many people love that show just proves how many people love corny jokes and stupid story lines.

I think Veep and Arrested Development are far funnier and more clever than Friends but I still love Friends for what it is.

These critiques remind me of the time I heard a movie critic panning Wayne's World and comparing it to some Oscar-winning film to prove how bad it was. The thing is, Wayne's World was never supposed to be an Oscar contender. It wasn't a serious film. It was dopey and stupid but also likeable and funny. I feel like people who say Friends wasn't funny, etc., aren't appreciating it for what it was. It wasn't Seinfeld or Frasier, which were wittier and more clever. It was cinnamon toast when you're home sick. Chicken nuggets with fries when you've had a bad day. It was comfort food in the form of a show.

You're still entitled to not like it, of course. But I feel like panning it for being dopey and basic is really missing the point. That's exactly what it was supposed to be!

This was something I really loved about Roger Ebert -- he took movies at face value and evaluated whether they were a good version of whatever they were trying to be. Like I remember he gave the movie Bring it On a really good review, and some people rolled their eyes, but his point was that it was a great comedy about high school cheerleaders, with strong, memorable performances, and the jokes and pacing worked well, plus it looked good. It's not Citizen Kane but it didn't set out to be that, or even to win an Oscar or anything. The wanted to make a really entertaining movie about teenagers and found a great cast and made a good movie.

And that's how I feel about Friends. It's not super clever or deep, but I think a PP has it right that it was like chicken soup -- just comforting and reliable. Yes, it's formulaic and cheesy, but sometimes that's what you want in a sitcom.

They don't make a lot of shows like Friends now, especially with streaming, and my DH and I talk about missing "dumb" tv sometimes. Sometimes you want to watch a basic sitcom with decent acting and reasonably funny jokes and pleasant set and costume design, and just let it wash over you. I like to watch stuff like this while knitting or folding laundry, or as something to smooth out stress from a tough day before going to bed. I don't want to watch Veep or Arrested Development in those situations. They are funnier and smarter, but also more thought provoking and caustic. I don't want to be provoked. I want to be coddled a bit. Friends offered that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was excited to share it with my teen DDs because it was one of my favorite shows. They hated it and deemed it "so cringe" and "mid" so that was fun.

Your DDs are absolutely right! It was cringe and mid even back then.
They all looked so basic and boring except maybe Courtney Cox. Humor on a level of dad's jokes.

Just like Mad About You and all the other sitcoms OP mentioned. It was the style at the time.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you OP. Good basic analysis of the characters.