Worth it's own post: The Harvard-Westlake college matriculation data!!

[Anonymous]

The more I read and learn about GDS the more I think that this school does nothing to build resilience in their students and parents just bulldoze their way for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally, rich kids do fine OP, even if they are mediocre students or people

HW is really rigorous academically—definitely comparable to the DC big 3.

I have only scanned this thread, so maybe it has been touched on, but HW seems to have far fewer graduates with GPAs around 3.1 and under than the "big 3." StA, Sidwell, NCS, Potomac--all have a higher number of students around the 3.0. HW=grade inflation, just like everywhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading this my kid is never getting into college anywhere she wants to go. She’s a B+ student at top private in DC. She loves shopping at Target. Maybe she should just get a job there and throw in the towel.

I have a B student at a top private feeling very badly right now as deferall, waitlist, and her first rejection even, come rolling in. It is not a fun situation. And my DD is no slacker. A hard-working, caring, talented athlete, with ADHD who got a C and C+ during remote learning her freshman year from which there was no recovering. Had between 3.5 and 3.7 every semester since, but there was just no recovering. Very depressing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading this my kid is never getting into college anywhere she wants to go. She’s a B+ student at top private in DC. She loves shopping at Target. Maybe she should just get a job there and throw in the towel.

I have a B student at a top private feeling very badly right now as deferall, waitlist, and her first rejection even, come rolling in. It is not a fun situation. And my DD is no slacker. A hard-working, caring, talented athlete, with ADHD who got a C and C+ during remote learning her freshman year from which there was no recovering. Had between 3.5 and 3.7 every semester since, but there was just no recovering. Very depressing.

Is she trying to do sports in college? I feel for you. I think that will be us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah that list is interesting - with the exception of NYU there doesn't seem to be any huge advantage to HW. Really shocked that 26 applications to UNC netted 0 acceptances - what's going on there?? Or Stanford, wouldn't you think they'd have more than 7 acceptances out of 86 applications? Same with UVA, Princeton, MIT, Harvard - these numbers don't look out of line with what you'd expect from any HS.

current HW parent here and also parent of a graduate. I should continue reading but I stopped here to say a couple of things. Different high schools are different feeders for different colleges. HW has been a feeder to UChicago, Michigan, NYU, WUSTL, and lately to Penn.

Historically, HW doesn't feed to Princeton, UNC, or Pomona. UVA is brutal; we explored it in depth with our oldest kid's dean (college counselor) because we have Virginia ties, but the dean was pretty clear that DC was not going to get in (DC applied anyways, but was accepted ED somewhere else so pulled the UVA application). UVA has that mandate to take VA kids, and they do (or used to) consider OOS kids of UVA parents as in-state (legacy), so that combo basically wipes out an OOS kid with no UVA parent or no athletic hook.

HW kids apply to Michigan because of California politics. The University of California schools have a mandate to accept the top 10% of *public* CA high school seniors. So if your kid goes to a CA private, it's a very difficult to get into the UCs.

Want to say a few other things:

1) There are tons of kids there that are not rich. Their financial aid program is amazing (it's almost unbelievable; can't say enough about it).

2) While there are kids who have celebrity parents there, they are a minority; they just shine bright.

3) What I do think HW kids have in abundance is legacy parents. DH and I do not have legacy anywhere and it is tricky--as most of you know, your DCs are competing for colleges against their own high school class. Since legacy is a hook in an ED or SCEA round, an unhooked kid has to be strategic about what schools to apply for, if applying ED or SCEA.

This is helpful info. HW seems like a wonderful school. The campus looks amazing.
UVA may have a regional bias.

If UVA has any kind of "regional bias" when it comes to OOS admissions, it would be to favor applicants from further away states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading this my kid is never getting into college anywhere she wants to go. She’s a B+ student at top private in DC. She loves shopping at Target. Maybe she should just get a job there and throw in the towel.

I have a B student at a top private feeling very badly right now as deferall, waitlist, and her first rejection even, come rolling in. It is not a fun situation. And my DD is no slacker. A hard-working, caring, talented athlete, with ADHD who got a C and C+ during remote learning her freshman year from which there was no recovering. Had between 3.5 and 3.7 every semester since, but there was just no recovering. Very depressing.

Would be more helpful if the schools were identified or, at least, identified as reach, target/match, or safety schools. If the negative news was from all super elite top 20 schools, then your daughter should appreciate being deferred and waitlisted. Context matters and specifics matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading this my kid is never getting into college anywhere she wants to go. She’s a B+ student at top private in DC. She loves shopping at Target. Maybe she should just get a job there and throw in the towel.

I think you are just joking but on the off-chance you are not, your daughter is likely getting a great education and will get into a bunch of schools with the right list. The good news is so many colleges are out there and she can be successful from so many different choices. I think where people get in trouble is when they have a “top college” or bust mentality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The more I read and learn about GDS the more I think that this school does nothing to build resilience in their students and parents just bulldoze their way for them.

It has nothing to do with resilience. Here's what this thread says - GDS CCO gives no data (as in zero) to kids or parents in making college list. The list from HW sowed the GDS parents who saw it posted what other peer schools do/can do. And we know that local peers make scattergrams available. We also know that scattergrams can be unrealizable (includes hooks) and the HW data excludes sports or legacy hooks. So this is possible. GDS just chooses to go with a "trust your heart" strategy coupled with CCO pushing every kid to ED at a middle 50th school.

So parents look at that, compare to what they see from friend parents at Potomac, Albans/NCS/Sidwell and decide this is BS and go pay $5k to 10k to get outside counselor...who will never have the same type of data GDS CCo has on GPA.

So there we are. It has nothing to do with resilience unless you are just sniping because you see some parents rightfully complaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would hate to be a college counselor at a top private school.
Sounds very stressful dealing with neurotic and entitled parents and kids.
We are at a private school but I have to just say it - parental expectations are sky high and not always reasonable.
Many parents are high fliers in society and professionally. They are used to getting what they want. It does not always work out that way for college admissions

Sure this is right. And I am one of the GDS parents here complaining about GDS.

Here's the thing - I don't expect my kid to go to an Ivy because I did. I really don't. All I have said here (and most GDS parents I've seen post here have said) is that GDS clearly has GPA driven outcomes data but they don't share it with parents. Frankly this would unburden their office. Instead, they go with unclear and n0n-transprent communications masked in feel-good trust your heart language.

That's not me being a type A and wanting my kid to go to HYP because I did. That's me saying if GDS could show me the data and it said HYP below 3.8 has not happened for a GDS kid in the last 5 years (even athlete) then I would say to my kid, "dont apply to HYP" - instead it becomes this war of wills with the CCO simple BECUASE they dont share data and they ask us to read their tone and body language....and even worse, they ask 17 year olds to do that becuase there is a grand total of 1 meeting with parents to discuss the list.

They were also entirely unclear about AP testing despite listing AP test results of senior class in College Profile - after getting rid of AP courses.

Again, that's not complaining, it's just calling out lack of clear ciommunication. We do expect better there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally, rich kids do fine OP, even if they are mediocre students or people

HW is really rigorous academically—definitely comparable to the DC big 3.

I have only scanned this thread, so maybe it has been touched on, but HW seems to have far fewer graduates with GPAs around 3.1 and under than the "big 3." StA, Sidwell, NCS, Potomac--all have a higher number of students around the 3.0. HW=grade inflation, just like everywhere else.

Again, this is a small sample of probably no more than the same 50-100 kids, all of whom are unhooked. You cannot reach any conclusions about the GPAs of the school as a whole from this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The more I read and learn about GDS the more I think that this school does nothing to build resilience in their students and parents just bulldoze their way for them.

It has nothing to do with resilience. Here's what this thread says - GDS CCO gives no data (as in zero) to kids or parents in making college list. The list from HW sowed the GDS parents who saw it posted what other peer schools do/can do. And we know that local peers make scattergrams available. We also know that scattergrams can be unrealizable (includes hooks) and the HW data excludes sports or legacy hooks. So this is possible. GDS just chooses to go with a "trust your heart" strategy coupled with CCO pushing every kid to ED at a middle 50th school.

So parents look at that, compare to what they see from friend parents at Potomac, Albans/NCS/Sidwell and decide this is BS and go pay $5k to 10k to get outside counselor...who will never have the same type of data GDS CCo has on GPA.

So there we are. It has nothing to do with resilience unless you are just sniping because you see some parents rightfully complaining.

The HW data excludes recruited athletes, legacy AND MORE. They do not say what that extra definition means, just that it exists. We do not know but it isn’t just legacy and athletics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally, rich kids do fine OP, even if they are mediocre students or people

HW is really rigorous academically—definitely comparable to the DC big 3.

I have only scanned this thread, so maybe it has been touched on, but HW seems to have far fewer graduates with GPAs around 3.1 and under than the "big 3." StA, Sidwell, NCS, Potomac--all have a higher number of students around the 3.0. HW=grade inflation, just like everywhere else.

Again, this is a small sample of probably no more than the same 50-100 kids, all of whom are unhooked. You cannot reach any conclusions about the GPAs of the school as a whole from this.

With 201 applications to Michigan, I'm pretty sure the sample is bigger than 50-100...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally, rich kids do fine OP, even if they are mediocre students or people

HW is really rigorous academically—definitely comparable to the DC big 3.

I have only scanned this thread, so maybe it has been touched on, but HW seems to have far fewer graduates with GPAs around 3.1 and under than the "big 3." StA, Sidwell, NCS, Potomac--all have a higher number of students around the 3.0. HW=grade inflation, just like everywhere else.

Again, this is a small sample of probably no more than the same 50-100 kids, all of whom are unhooked. You cannot reach any conclusions about the GPAs of the school as a whole from this.

With 201 applications to Michigan, I'm pretty sure the sample is bigger than 50-100...

Okay, sure, call it 200 or so, but the point is that there are going to be a lot of repeats in the group, because unhooked kids necessarily cast a very wide net. Each data point in their chart is not one unique student and people in this thread are acting like it is.

My guess is that a chart like this from most top privates would look very similar as far as GPA ranges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally, rich kids do fine OP, even if they are mediocre students or people

HW is really rigorous academically—definitely comparable to the DC big 3.

I have only scanned this thread, so maybe it has been touched on, but HW seems to have far fewer graduates with GPAs around 3.1 and under than the "big 3." StA, Sidwell, NCS, Potomac--all have a higher number of students around the 3.0. HW=grade inflation, just like everywhere else.

Again, this is a small sample of probably no more than the same 50-100 kids, all of whom are unhooked. You cannot reach any conclusions about the GPAs of the school as a whole from this.

With 201 applications to Michigan, I'm pretty sure the sample is bigger than 50-100...

Okay, sure, call it 200 or so, but the point is that there are going to be a lot of repeats in the group, because unhooked kids necessarily cast a very wide net. Each data point in their chart is not one unique student and people in this thread are acting like it is.

My guess is that a chart like this from most top privates would look very similar as far as GPA ranges.

Totally agree. I’m not sure why people here are downplaying this data. This is the closest we will see to what the odds are for unhooked kids by GPA range. And yes, DC might have slightly more grade deflation but I’m guessing this is pretty damn close - maybe within 0.1 GPA point of what Sidwell/GDS/Potomac/Albans/NCS data shows for unhooked non VIP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading this my kid is never getting into college anywhere she wants to go. She’s a B+ student at top private in DC. She loves shopping at Target. Maybe she should just get a job there and throw in the towel.

I think you are just joking but on the off-chance you are not, your daughter is likely getting a great education and will get into a bunch of schools with the right list. The good news is so many colleges are out there and she can be successful from so many different choices. I think where people get in trouble is when they have a “top college” or bust mentality.

Yes, I'm joking, but, at the same time, I don't think that she's going to love her choices. She does not have her eyes set on the Ivies, but the schools she likes, at least looking at the data, are going to be so far out of her reach. When I look at her non-academic criteria for schools (geographic preference, school setting, size of school) and then look at her grades, there aren't a lot of options on paper. She's going to need to broaden her criteria to give herself realistic choices.