Worth it's own post: The Harvard-Westlake college matriculation data!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transactional LA- parents demand and get.

DC culture is more respectful of educators so you don’t know diddly

Reminds me of Caitlin Flanagan’s Atlantic article from when she worked as a college counselor at HW.

You can’t believe anything she writes. If anything, when she writes something, I tend to think the opposite is true.

The self-congratulation is distasteful and a bit delusional as well.

She wrote it 21 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is my understanding that she worked at the school for a few years a quarter of a century ago.

So much of what Flanagan writes is obviously and starkly fantasy that I’m not surprised she fabricated an entire book out of a few years of work in her twenties. That’s exactly her modus operandi.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transactional LA- parents demand and get.

DC culture is more respectful of educators so you don’t know diddly

Reminds me of Caitlin Flanagan’s Atlantic article from when she worked as a college counselor at HW.

You can’t believe anything she writes. If anything, when she writes something, I tend to think the opposite is true.

The self-congratulation is distasteful and a bit delusional as well.

She wrote it 21 years ago.

Written April 2021.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/...indefensible/618078/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would hate to be a college counselor at a top private school.
Sounds very stressful dealing with neurotic and entitled parents and kids.
We are at a private school but I have to just say it - parental expectations are sky high and not always reasonable.
Many parents are high fliers in society and professionally. They are used to getting what they want. It does not always work out that way for college admissions

Sure this is right. And I am one of the GDS parents here complaining about GDS.

Here's the thing - I don't expect my kid to go to an Ivy because I did. I really don't. All I have said here (and most GDS parents I've seen post here have said) is that GDS clearly has GPA driven outcomes data but they don't share it with parents. Frankly this would unburden their office. Instead, they go with unclear and n0n-transprent communications masked in feel-good trust your heart language.

That's not me being a type A and wanting my kid to go to HYP because I did. That's me saying if GDS could show me the data and it said HYP below 3.8 has not happened for a GDS kid in the last 5 years (even athlete) then I would say to my kid, "dont apply to HYP" - instead it becomes this war of wills with the CCO simple BECUASE they dont share data and they ask us to read their tone and body language....and even worse, they ask 17 year olds to do that becuase there is a grand total of 1 meeting with parents to discuss the list.

They were also entirely unclear about AP testing despite listing AP test results of senior class in College Profile - after getting rid of AP courses.

Again, that's not complaining, it's just calling out lack of clear ciommunication. We do expect better there

Is GDS admin aware of these problems? And what has been the reaction? GDS parent with DC not at admissions stage yet. These criticisms seem very reasonable so I’m wondering if and how parents have tried to get the school to make changes in CC.

GDS senior parent here. The office does not want to hear criticism. They are all very nice but the answer I’ve always heard is a version of “trust the process” and “look at our results”. And finally, “the kids drive everything”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah that list is interesting - with the exception of NYU there doesn't seem to be any huge advantage to HW. Really shocked that 26 applications to UNC netted 0 acceptances - what's going on there?? Or Stanford, wouldn't you think they'd have more than 7 acceptances out of 86 applications? Same with UVA, Princeton, MIT, Harvard - these numbers don't look out of line with what you'd expect from any HS.

Yield protection for UNC. They know HW kids aren’t going to attend.

Keep telling yourself that BS. UNC may very well be the most selective public school for OOS applicants in the country.

Why so defensive? It’s likely true. HW kids are not going to be interested in UNC, for the most part.

LA is not at all like DC. You sound provincial.

But maybe UNC accepted 4 athletes and 3 legacies. It’s hard to know what the whole looks like without the recruiter athlete, legacy, etc stats. Same with Stanford, Harvard, Williams, Princeton, etc that only seemed to accept kids with a minimum GPA of 3.8. Maybe those schools accepted a handful of hooked with lower GPAs, so were only looking for unhooked kids with higher GPAs.
Look, moron, 26 kids from the school applied to UNC. So clearly somebody is interested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah that list is interesting - with the exception of NYU there doesn't seem to be any huge advantage to HW. Really shocked that 26 applications to UNC netted 0 acceptances - what's going on there?? Or Stanford, wouldn't you think they'd have more than 7 acceptances out of 86 applications? Same with UVA, Princeton, MIT, Harvard - these numbers don't look out of line with what you'd expect from any HS.

Yield protection for UNC. They know HW kids aren’t going to attend.

Keep telling yourself that BS. UNC may very well be the most selective public school for OOS applicants in the country.

Why so defensive? It’s likely true. HW kids are not going to be interested in UNC, for the most part.

LA is not at all like DC. You sound provincial.

But maybe UNC accepted 4 athletes and 3 legacies. It’s hard to know what the whole looks like without the recruiter athlete, legacy, etc stats. Same with Stanford, Harvard, Williams, Princeton, etc that only seemed to accept kids with a minimum GPA of 3.8. Maybe those schools accepted a handful of hooked with lower GPAs, so were only looking for unhooked kids with higher GPAs.
Look, moron, 26 kids from the school applied to UNC. So clearly somebody is interested.

Whoops…wrote that on my phone! The look moron common was not mine. For the record!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah that list is interesting - with the exception of NYU there doesn't seem to be any huge advantage to HW. Really shocked that 26 applications to UNC netted 0 acceptances - what's going on there?? Or Stanford, wouldn't you think they'd have more than 7 acceptances out of 86 applications? Same with UVA, Princeton, MIT, Harvard - these numbers don't look out of line with what you'd expect from any HS.

Yield protection for UNC. They know HW kids aren’t going to attend.

Keep telling yourself that BS. UNC may very well be the most selective public school for OOS applicants in the country.

Why so defensive? It’s likely true. HW kids are not going to be interested in UNC, for the most part.

LA is not at all like DC. You sound provincial.

Sorry. Autocorrect is killing me.
But maybe UNC accepted 4 athletes and 3 legacies. It’s hard to know what the whole looks like without the recruiter athlete, legacy, etc stats. Same with Stanford, Harvard, Williams, Princeton, etc that only seemed to accept kids with a minimum GPA of 3.8. Maybe those schools accepted a handful of hooked with lower GPAs, so were only looking for unhooked kids with higher GPAs.
Look, moron, 26 kids from the school applied to UNC. So clearly somebody is interested.

Whoops…wrote that on my phone! The look moron common was not mine. For the record!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transactional LA- parents demand and get.

DC culture is more respectful of educators so you don’t know diddly

Reminds me of Caitlin Flanagan’s Atlantic article from when she worked as a college counselor at HW.

You can’t believe anything she writes. If anything, when she writes something, I tend to think the opposite is true.

The self-congratulation is distasteful and a bit delusional as well.

She wrote it 21 years ago.

Written April 2021.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/...indefensible/618078/

Written September 2001.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/...ge-counselor/302281/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transactional LA- parents demand and get.

DC culture is more respectful of educators so you don’t know diddly

Reminds me of Caitlin Flanagan’s Atlantic article from when she worked as a college counselor at HW.

You can’t believe anything she writes. If anything, when she writes something, I tend to think the opposite is true.

The self-congratulation is distasteful and a bit delusional as well.

She wrote it 21 years ago.

Written April 2021.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/...indefensible/618078/

Written September 2001.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/...ge-counselor/302281/

Yikes. She comes off as obsessed in not a good way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transactional LA- parents demand and get.

DC culture is more respectful of educators so you don’t know diddly

Reminds me of Caitlin Flanagan’s Atlantic article from when she worked as a college counselor at HW.

You can’t believe anything she writes. If anything, when she writes something, I tend to think the opposite is true.

The self-congratulation is distasteful and a bit delusional as well.

She wrote it 21 years ago.

Written April 2021.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/...indefensible/618078/

Written September 2001.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/...ge-counselor/302281/

Yikes. She comes off as obsessed in not a good way.

I bet you were one of those Sidwell parents who had to be warned not to ask for the records of other students a couple years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you guys seen this?
It's the matriculation data for unhooked kids from Harvard Westlake.
It's REALLY interesting.

https://students.hw.com/Portals/44/completehandbook2023.pdf

A couple of thoughts:
--Their GPAs seem to be a touch higher than those at DC privates. Many kids are applying with above a 3.8. Very few are applying with below a 3.4. Our DC private has almost no kids with a 3.8+

That said, the Ivies have a pretty strict GPA cut-off of about 3.8. Still lots of lower kids trying to apply without luck. I can totally see this at our private "my kid is special! they can get into an Ivy with a 3.6!!" Um. NO
Other schools like NYU, Georgetown, Tufts seem to love HW kids.

Schools love rich kids (and HW is LA rich, which is a very different thing from DC rich) and kids with celebrity parents. A full pay dullard with a dad who is a well known producer is getting into NYU

This. I went to Brown and the HW kids had world famous parents.

The two I worked with with normal UMC, one played football at H, other was Asian and fenced at Pton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally, rich kids do fine OP, even if they are mediocre students or people

HW is really rigorous academically—definitely comparable to the DC big 3.

I have only scanned this thread, so maybe it has been touched on, but HW seems to have far fewer graduates with GPAs around 3.1 and under than the "big 3." StA, Sidwell, NCS, Potomac--all have a higher number of students around the 3.0. HW=grade inflation, just like everywhere else.

Again, this is a small sample of probably no more than the same 50-100 kids, all of whom are unhooked. You cannot reach any conclusions about the GPAs of the school as a whole from this.

With 201 applications to Michigan, I'm pretty sure the sample is bigger than 50-100...

Okay, sure, call it 200 or so, but the point is that there are going to be a lot of repeats in the group, because unhooked kids necessarily cast a very wide net. Each data point in their chart is not one unique student and people in this thread are acting like it is.

My guess is that a chart like this from most top privates would look very similar as far as GPA ranges.

Because literally every HW student applies to Michigan? (I actually agree with your broader point, but the "call it 200" response makes you look like a clown.)

What are you talking about? Of course not every student applies. You seem like a clown yourself.

If you can't follow the chain, you don't need to comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transactional LA- parents demand and get.

DC culture is more respectful of educators so you don’t know diddly

Reminds me of Caitlin Flanagan’s Atlantic article from when she worked as a college counselor at HW.

You can’t believe anything she writes. If anything, when she writes something, I tend to think the opposite is true.

The self-congratulation is distasteful and a bit delusional as well.

She wrote it 21 years ago.

Written April 2021.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/...indefensible/618078/

Written September 2001.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/...ge-counselor/302281/

Yikes. She comes off as obsessed in not a good way.

I bet you were one of those Sidwell parents who had to be warned not to ask for the records of other students a couple years ago.

No. I have a long-time dislike and distrust of Caitlin Flanagan’s writing, though. I honestly don’t know why anyone believes her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally, rich kids do fine OP, even if they are mediocre students or people

HW is really rigorous academically—definitely comparable to the DC big 3.

I have only scanned this thread, so maybe it has been touched on, but HW seems to have far fewer graduates with GPAs around 3.1 and under than the "big 3." StA, Sidwell, NCS, Potomac--all have a higher number of students around the 3.0. HW=grade inflation, just like everywhere else.

Again, this is a small sample of probably no more than the same 50-100 kids, all of whom are unhooked. You cannot reach any conclusions about the GPAs of the school as a whole from this.

With 201 applications to Michigan, I'm pretty sure the sample is bigger than 50-100...

Okay, sure, call it 200 or so, but the point is that there are going to be a lot of repeats in the group, because unhooked kids necessarily cast a very wide net. Each data point in their chart is not one unique student and people in this thread are acting like it is.

My guess is that a chart like this from most top privates would look very similar as far as GPA ranges.

Because literally every HW student applies to Michigan? (I actually agree with your broader point, but the "call it 200" response makes you look like a clown.)

What are you talking about? Of course not every student applies. You seem like a clown yourself.

If you can't follow the chain, you don't need to comment.

The comment is correct and you seem like a clown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would hate to be a college counselor at a top private school.
Sounds very stressful dealing with neurotic and entitled parents and kids.
We are at a private school but I have to just say it - parental expectations are sky high and not always reasonable.
Many parents are high fliers in society and professionally. They are used to getting what they want. It does not always work out that way for college admissions

Sure this is right. And I am one of the GDS parents here complaining about GDS.

Here's the thing - I don't expect my kid to go to an Ivy because I did. I really don't. All I have said here (and most GDS parents I've seen post here have said) is that GDS clearly has GPA driven outcomes data but they don't share it with parents. Frankly this would unburden their office. Instead, they go with unclear and n0n-transprent communications masked in feel-good trust your heart language.

That's not me being a type A and wanting my kid to go to HYP because I did. That's me saying if GDS could show me the data and it said HYP below 3.8 has not happened for a GDS kid in the last 5 years (even athlete) then I would say to my kid, "dont apply to HYP" - instead it becomes this war of wills with the CCO simple BECUASE they dont share data and they ask us to read their tone and body language....and even worse, they ask 17 year olds to do that becuase there is a grand total of 1 meeting with parents to discuss the list.

They were also entirely unclear about AP testing despite listing AP test results of senior class in College Profile - after getting rid of AP courses.

Again, that's not complaining, it's just calling out lack of clear ciommunication. We do expect better there

I understand the frustration but if they share too much data, it takes a lot of control away from them.
And perhaps you might react rationally and just look at the data and use it to guide your child but the next parent may throw a fit at the fact that their kid is shut out of the ivys with a 3.8 GPA while a different VIP kid is in with a lower GPA. Sharing data openly can open up a can of worms and who knows how parents will react. I can understand why GDS is hesitant and tries to keep parents at arm’s length