Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, we’re talking about kids swim. While it’s fun to make cut times for certain meets, and a bummer when the cutoffs don’t work in your favor, it’s… kids swim. As others have said, if they’re a true phenomenon, age cut offs don’t really matter anyway. There are plenty of 13 year olds making top 10 times in the 13/14 age group. If your kid was that good, they would too. Relax. By the time they’re in high school and any of this matters (even questionable that it does in high school) the cutoffs matter much less. In the meantime, the benefits your kid gets from swimming include learning to work hard, challenge themselves, and learn to deal with occasionally disappointment - whether that’s due to a bad race or I’ll timed birthday. Those are things you should be embracing rather than whining that the system is unfair for poor Johnny. - mom of two swimmers, one with a good birthday and one without

Eh, not necessarily. At divisionals (NVSL) this past summer, there was ONE 13 year old boy in the top 27 kids for the 50 free, and I know him; he was already 14 by this summer. (Even he didn't make the top 18, BUT the top seeded kid had a summer birthday and was well over 6'. He was 15, swimming against 14 year olds.) Please don't say that summer birthdays don't really matter. They absolutely do. What the age cut offs do for summer is allow summer birthday kids to hold the records, and to beat out other kids who are much younger.) Another example is the boy who broke the 11/12 year old 50 fly record this summer. He was 13, swimming down and that record will be very hard to break. He now will have through the summer of his 15th birthday to swim as a 13/14 year old.

Because they all swim club, where your age is listed in the results.
How do you know how old these kids are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most of the fast kids hit the following age group standards? My kid was always focused on the next age group up). My 11/12 year old has the 14 year old JO cuts and is a decently fast but nothing amazing.

Yes. My fast 10U has already hit the 11/12 JO cuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most of the fast kids hit the following age group standards? My kid was always focused on the next age group up). My 11/12 year old has the 14 year old JO cuts and is a decently fast but nothing amazing.

Yes. My fast 10U has already hit the 11/12 JO cuts.

Exactly. It is really not a big deal. Pretty much every kid who finals at JOs hits the next age group cuts early. Sure, birthdays change the results but there are many kids in the PVS kids who don’t push up against those cuts. They made them long ago. And the fast kids are multiple cuts ahead (sectionals at 12, junior nats at 14, etc).

As for summer, every year in MCSL there are a handful of kids who win an allstar race who are actually low age (so 9, 11 or 13).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most of the fast kids hit the following age group standards? My kid was always focused on the next age group up). My 11/12 year old has the 14 year old JO cuts and is a decently fast but nothing amazing.

Yes. My fast 10U has already hit the 11/12 JO cuts.

Most? No. Looking at last year’s 10u 50 free, 5/85 boys hit the 11-12 cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, we’re talking about kids swim. While it’s fun to make cut times for certain meets, and a bummer when the cutoffs don’t work in your favor, it’s… kids swim. As others have said, if they’re a true phenomenon, age cut offs don’t really matter anyway. There are plenty of 13 year olds making top 10 times in the 13/14 age group. If your kid was that good, they would too. Relax. By the time they’re in high school and any of this matters (even questionable that it does in high school) the cutoffs matter much less. In the meantime, the benefits your kid gets from swimming include learning to work hard, challenge themselves, and learn to deal with occasionally disappointment - whether that’s due to a bad race or I’ll timed birthday. Those are things you should be embracing rather than whining that the system is unfair for poor Johnny. - mom of two swimmers, one with a good birthday and one without

Eh, not necessarily. At divisionals (NVSL) this past summer, there was ONE 13 year old boy in the top 27 kids for the 50 free, and I know him; he was already 14 by this summer. (Even he didn't make the top 18, BUT the top seeded kid had a summer birthday and was well over 6'. He was 15, swimming against 14 year olds.) Please don't say that summer birthdays don't really matter. They absolutely do. What the age cut offs do for summer is allow summer birthday kids to hold the records, and to beat out other kids who are much younger.) Another example is the boy who broke the 11/12 year old 50 fly record this summer. He was 13, swimming down and that record will be very hard to break. He now will have through the summer of his 15th birthday to swim as a 13/14 year old.

Because they all swim club, where your age is listed in the results.
How do you know how old these kids are?

Not true. You only know their age at a meet.

You lose all credibility when you start singling out specific children online.

For all you know, they have August birthdays unless you personally know them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, we’re talking about kids swim. While it’s fun to make cut times for certain meets, and a bummer when the cutoffs don’t work in your favor, it’s… kids swim. As others have said, if they’re a true phenomenon, age cut offs don’t really matter anyway. There are plenty of 13 year olds making top 10 times in the 13/14 age group. If your kid was that good, they would too. Relax. By the time they’re in high school and any of this matters (even questionable that it does in high school) the cutoffs matter much less. In the meantime, the benefits your kid gets from swimming include learning to work hard, challenge themselves, and learn to deal with occasionally disappointment - whether that’s due to a bad race or I’ll timed birthday. Those are things you should be embracing rather than whining that the system is unfair for poor Johnny. - mom of two swimmers, one with a good birthday and one without

Eh, not necessarily. At divisionals (NVSL) this past summer, there was ONE 13 year old boy in the top 27 kids for the 50 free, and I know him; he was already 14 by this summer. (Even he didn't make the top 18, BUT the top seeded kid had a summer birthday and was well over 6'. He was 15, swimming against 14 year olds.) Please don't say that summer birthdays don't really matter. They absolutely do. What the age cut offs do for summer is allow summer birthday kids to hold the records, and to beat out other kids who are much younger.) Another example is the boy who broke the 11/12 year old 50 fly record this summer. He was 13, swimming down and that record will be very hard to break. He now will have through the summer of his 15th birthday to swim as a 13/14 year old.

Because they all swim club, where your age is listed in the results.
How do you know how old these kids are?

Not true. You only know their age at a meet.

You lose all credibility when you start singling out specific children online.

For all you know, they have August birthdays unless you personally know them.

DP, there are swim rank sites that tell you the club kids’ age year and month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, we’re talking about kids swim. While it’s fun to make cut times for certain meets, and a bummer when the cutoffs don’t work in your favor, it’s… kids swim. As others have said, if they’re a true phenomenon, age cut offs don’t really matter anyway. There are plenty of 13 year olds making top 10 times in the 13/14 age group. If your kid was that good, they would too. Relax. By the time they’re in high school and any of this matters (even questionable that it does in high school) the cutoffs matter much less. In the meantime, the benefits your kid gets from swimming include learning to work hard, challenge themselves, and learn to deal with occasionally disappointment - whether that’s due to a bad race or I’ll timed birthday. Those are things you should be embracing rather than whining that the system is unfair for poor Johnny. - mom of two swimmers, one with a good birthday and one without

Eh, not necessarily. At divisionals (NVSL) this past summer, there was ONE 13 year old boy in the top 27 kids for the 50 free, and I know him; he was already 14 by this summer. (Even he didn't make the top 18, BUT the top seeded kid had a summer birthday and was well over 6'. He was 15, swimming against 14 year olds.) Please don't say that summer birthdays don't really matter. They absolutely do. What the age cut offs do for summer is allow summer birthday kids to hold the records, and to beat out other kids who are much younger.) Another example is the boy who broke the 11/12 year old 50 fly record this summer. He was 13, swimming down and that record will be very hard to break. He now will have through the summer of his 15th birthday to swim as a 13/14 year old.

Because they all swim club, where your age is listed in the results.
How do you know how old these kids are?

Not true. You only know their age at a meet.

You lose all credibility when you start singling out specific children online.

For all you know, they have August birthdays unless you personally know them.

DP, there are swim rank sites that tell you the club kids’ age year and month.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most of the fast kids hit the following age group standards? My kid was always focused on the next age group up). My 11/12 year old has the 14 year old JO cuts and is a decently fast but nothing amazing.

This may be true for girls, since the time standards don’t get that match faster past 11-12. Not true for boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most of the fast kids hit the following age group standards? My kid was always focused on the next age group up). My 11/12 year old has the 14 year old JO cuts and is a decently fast but nothing amazing.

Is this some sort of bizarre humble brag? No most fast kids do not hit the following age group standards. Take the 11-12 girls standards as compared to the 13-14 girls standards.
100 breast- JO cut for 11-12 is 1:21.19. The 13-14 cut is 1:14.39. 1:14.39 is a double aa cut for 11-12 girls, meaning that its in the top 8% of swimmers nationwide. So yes, the top 8% of swimmers nationwide is hardly just a routine thing to have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most of the fast kids hit the following age group standards? My kid was always focused on the next age group up). My 11/12 year old has the 14 year old JO cuts and is a decently fast but nothing amazing.

This may be true for girls, since the time standards don’t get that match faster past 11-12. Not true for boys.

Plus, it’s your 11/12 (likely 12) year old with a 13/14 cut, not a 14 cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, we’re talking about kids swim. While it’s fun to make cut times for certain meets, and a bummer when the cutoffs don’t work in your favor, it’s… kids swim. As others have said, if they’re a true phenomenon, age cut offs don’t really matter anyway. There are plenty of 13 year olds making top 10 times in the 13/14 age group. If your kid was that good, they would too. Relax. By the time they’re in high school and any of this matters (even questionable that it does in high school) the cutoffs matter much less. In the meantime, the benefits your kid gets from swimming include learning to work hard, challenge themselves, and learn to deal with occasionally disappointment - whether that’s due to a bad race or I’ll timed birthday. Those are things you should be embracing rather than whining that the system is unfair for poor Johnny. - mom of two swimmers, one with a good birthday and one without

Eh, not necessarily. At divisionals (NVSL) this past summer, there was ONE 13 year old boy in the top 27 kids for the 50 free, and I know him; he was already 14 by this summer. (Even he didn't make the top 18, BUT the top seeded kid had a summer birthday and was well over 6'. He was 15, swimming against 14 year olds.) Please don't say that summer birthdays don't really matter. They absolutely do. What the age cut offs do for summer is allow summer birthday kids to hold the records, and to beat out other kids who are much younger.) Another example is the boy who broke the 11/12 year old 50 fly record this summer. He was 13, swimming down and that record will be very hard to break. He now will have through the summer of his 15th birthday to swim as a 13/14 year old.

Jesus NVSL parents, summer swim means jack in the grand scheme of a kid’s swim career. It’s rec league summer swim, unclench and take a deep breath. The year round club swim rules, yeah those matter more, and the current structure is as fair as it’s going to get.

Someone tried to explain summer swim to me and it sounds so contrived. Truly, no one outside the dc area cares at all about age cutoffs in summer swim and whether the records are held by kids who are actually older than the age groups. It’s like bragging about winning your country club putt putt competition.

The thing about the DC area is that the culture is parents competing about kid achievements. That's why summer swim birthdays matter and there are 3 million posts about TJ. We judge each other by what kids accomplish. Or maybe we are just judging ourselves. It's a weird slightly toxic mindset that pervades the area.

Pp, yes thanks, that makes sense. Except that I have lived in ny and it was the same there, except different things to brag/compete about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most of the fast kids hit the following age group standards? My kid was always focused on the next age group up). My 11/12 year old has the 14 year old JO cuts and is a decently fast but nothing amazing.

Yes. My fast 10U has already hit the 11/12 JO cuts.

Um, no. That would be a truly exceptional 10U to do that. Take 100 Free. The 11-12 cut is 1:02.39. In all of PVS this year, five 10U boys have that time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most of the fast kids hit the following age group standards? My kid was always focused on the next age group up). My 11/12 year old has the 14 year old JO cuts and is a decently fast but nothing amazing.

Yes. My fast 10U has already hit the 11/12 JO cuts.

Um, no. That would be a truly exceptional 10U to do that. Take 100 Free. The 11-12 cut is 1:02.39. In all of PVS this year, five 10U boys have that time.

This, it’s no more than the top 5 10U in each event that already have made the 11-12 cut times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most of the fast kids hit the following age group standards? My kid was always focused on the next age group up). My 11/12 year old has the 14 year old JO cuts and is a decently fast but nothing amazing.

Yes. My fast 10U has already hit the 11/12 JO cuts.

Um, no. That would be a truly exceptional 10U to do that. Take 100 Free. The 11-12 cut is 1:02.39. In all of PVS this year, five 10U boys have that time.

This, it’s no more than the top 5 10U in each event that already have made the 11-12 cut times.

Yes. My son is in this situation - just turned 11 and it’s a tough birthday for sure. He is very fast and as a 10 year old had AAAA times almost across the board. We are in VA where the champs cuts are harder, and yes - he did qualify for 11-12 cuts when he was still 10 but just barely, and not in every single event. He will be able to swim in state champs and NCSAs but will be finishing last/close to last. My understanding is that AAAA times basically mean top 2% nationally, so if that was where he stood as a 10 year old and still is just squeezing in the 11-12 cuts, then probably “most” fast swimmers are not getting the next age group cuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most of the fast kids hit the following age group standards? My kid was always focused on the next age group up). My 11/12 year old has the 14 year old JO cuts and is a decently fast but nothing amazing.

Yes. My fast 10U has already hit the 11/12 JO cuts.

Um, no. That would be a truly exceptional 10U to do that. Take 100 Free. The 11-12 cut is 1:02.39. In all of PVS this year, five 10U boys have that time.

This, it’s no more than the top 5 10U in each event that already have made the 11-12 cut times.

Even fewer in some. Just 3 each in 50 Fly and 200 IM. And that is out of well over 1000 10&U boys in PVS.