British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a bizarre thread. I mean no one is advocating for colonization to start back up again? Human history is full of people oppressing, rising up, and starting over to try again. Whole populations have been wiped out along the way. Cultures lost forever, great crimes committed. And great progress has happened alongside that.

Some cultures have been fortunate to remain fairly untouched for thousands of years like China and Japan and others have been through repeated upheavals.

Like the tectonic plates and volcanos you can say that great progress comes from great change. Sometimes change comes at you from within and sometimes externally. Sometimes change is good and sometimes it is horrible. But change has moved the world forward.

The current monarchy has essentially nothing to do with colonization other than that they have not actively set all these countries 'free' but they have essentially started saying 'whatever' to the ones who are seeking independence.

This is like slavery, it is a horrible thing, no one thinks it was good. But it has, for better or worse, shaped the modern world. All we can do is work with what is in front of us.

What should the UK do with this study OP? And this is truly not a defense of colonialism but it was kind of something EVERYONE was doing at the time. The way we think about the world and other cultures has really changed in the last century. But people have been dying because of cruel powerful people for all of human history, this is nothing new or unique to Britain.

You’re kind of letting people off the hook when you liken colonialism, a policy choice, to plate tectonics.

I also love when people point out, as if this is supposed to be a new fact, that people around the world have been terrible to one another at varying scales and degrees since people existed. The British people claimed to be both more modern and superior. Being as cruel as they were was indefensible then and it’s indefensible now, and yes people on this very thread have defended colonialism.

DP. Not defending but pointing out that British rule lasted for so long I'm India because they were a lot better than the alternative.

When one party owns all the ammo, naval supremacy, and are ruthless, it's pretty easy to "rule" the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But, Indians worship white people , no?

Used to. That's slowly fading.

My great grandfather was apparently a supporter of the Brits, and whipped one of his sons, for being active in the resistance (said son ran away from home, continued to participate in the resistance, and only passed away recently).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a couple assumptions that seem arguable. But at first look, there's no reason to think that colonialism could be good for the colonized - but the die cannot be unrolled, the present cannot be changed, and colonization did bring some benefits too.

I think the colonized should be the judge of that--and if the 100 million death toll was worth it.

Shall we ask them to abandon "colonialist" benefits like a unified India, democracy, electricity, railroads, sanitation systems, the constitution, and the abolition of sati?

Explain unified India. I don’t understand given 1947 and partition. If India were unified, it would include Pakistan.

[Anonymous]

Would all of you be OK with the Holocaust if there were benefits to civilization?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:British colonies in Africa tend to be doing better than French colonies. The British legal system has been a benefit to India and many other places.

And maybe they’d be doing even better had they not been colonized.

Maybe we should still be colonized - we’d be doing better, especially with gun control!

Of the countries that have never been colonized, Japan is doing great. That's about it.

The same reason Japan was never colonized is the same reason it "is doing great": highly intelligent populace.

What were the Japanese and Russians fighting about in Korea then in 1904-5?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would all of you be OK with the Holocaust if there were benefits to civilization?

Not okay with the British killing 50m or 100m Indians. But I'm not sure the study supports that.

The Great Leap Forward is supported by history, fwiw. Seems to be okay because there were benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:British colonies in Africa tend to be doing better than French colonies. The British legal system has been a benefit to India and many other places.

And maybe they’d be doing even better had they not been colonized.

Maybe we should still be colonized - we’d be doing better, especially with gun control!

Of the countries that have never been colonized, Japan is doing great. That's about it.

The same reason Japan was never colonized is the same reason it "is doing great": highly intelligent populace.

What were the Japanese and Russians fighting about in Korea then in 1904-5?

Poor little island state with imperialistic ambitions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would all of you be OK with the Holocaust if there were benefits to civilization?

Not okay with the British killing 50m or 100m Indians. But I'm not sure the study supports that.

The Great Leap Forward is supported by history, fwiw. Seems to be okay because there were benefits.

I guess the end justifies the means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:British colonies in Africa tend to be doing better than French colonies. The British legal system has been a benefit to India and many other places.

And maybe they’d be doing even better had they not been colonized.

Maybe we should still be colonized - we’d be doing better, especially with gun control!

Of the countries that have never been colonized, Japan is doing great. That's about it.

The same reason Japan was never colonized is the same reason it "is doing great": highly intelligent populace.

What were the Japanese and Russians fighting about in Korea then in 1904-5?

Poor little island state with imperialistic ambitions.

Agree. So weird that the PP at the top seemed to think Japan’s hands were clean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:British colonies in Africa tend to be doing better than French colonies. The British legal system has been a benefit to India and many other places.

And maybe they’d be doing even better had they not been colonized.

Maybe we should still be colonized - we’d be doing better, especially with gun control!

Of the countries that have never been colonized, Japan is doing great. That's about it.

The same reason Japan was never colonized is the same reason it "is doing great": highly intelligent populace.

What were the Japanese and Russians fighting about in Korea then in 1904-5?

They were colonizers not the colonized

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:British colonies in Africa tend to be doing better than French colonies. The British legal system has been a benefit to India and many other places.

And maybe they’d be doing even better had they not been colonized.

Maybe we should still be colonized - we’d be doing better, especially with gun control!

Of the countries that have never been colonized, Japan is doing great. That's about it.

The same reason Japan was never colonized is the same reason it "is doing great": highly intelligent populace.

What were the Japanese and Russians fighting about in Korea then in 1904-5?

They were colonizers not the colonized

Thank you captain obvious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Some cultures have been fortunate to remain fairly untouched for thousands of years like China and Japan and others have been through repeated upheavals.

China used to occupy about 1/3 of its current area.

My point was not that China did not colonize, but that Chinese culture has not been impacted by the invasion of a different culture, it has been shaped primarily by their people and their governments. Unlike say India and South Africa where there are clear markers of the UK culture in the countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If British colonialism was such a good thing we wouldn't have had the Boston Tea Party and a revolution.

Some of you are so comfortable in your privilege you would twist yourself into pretzel to try to minimize and justify the atrocities committed by your favorite colonizers. Maybe try to see it through the eyes of the colonized.

Without British colonialism we would not have had the Boston Tea Party and a revolution! The founding fathers were british! WTF hahaha. WE WERE THE COLONIZERS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a bizarre thread. I mean no one is advocating for colonization to start back up again? Human history is full of people oppressing, rising up, and starting over to try again. Whole populations have been wiped out along the way. Cultures lost forever, great crimes committed. And great progress has happened alongside that.

Some cultures have been fortunate to remain fairly untouched for thousands of years like China and Japan and others have been through repeated upheavals.

Like the tectonic plates and volcanos you can say that great progress comes from great change. Sometimes change comes at you from within and sometimes externally. Sometimes change is good and sometimes it is horrible. But change has moved the world forward.

The current monarchy has essentially nothing to do with colonization other than that they have not actively set all these countries 'free' but they have essentially started saying 'whatever' to the ones who are seeking independence.

This is like slavery, it is a horrible thing, no one thinks it was good. But it has, for better or worse, shaped the modern world. All we can do is work with what is in front of us.

What should the UK do with this study OP? And this is truly not a defense of colonialism but it was kind of something EVERYONE was doing at the time. The way we think about the world and other cultures has really changed in the last century. But people have been dying because of cruel powerful people for all of human history, this is nothing new or unique to Britain.

You’re kind of letting people off the hook when you liken colonialism, a policy choice, to plate tectonics.

I also love when people point out, as if this is supposed to be a new fact, that people around the world have been terrible to one another at varying scales and degrees since people existed. The British people claimed to be both more modern and superior. Being as cruel as they were was indefensible then and it’s indefensible now, and yes people on this very thread have defended colonialism.

What 'people' am I letting off the hook. Human behavior on an individual level is something where accountability is relevant, but human behavior also happens on a larger scale. And there are patterns that emerge. And the inherent 'pattern' of colonialism was well trod by people prior to the British empire. The world today with no conquering and exploring and wresting control is NEW. Putin being seen as a monster for the invasion of Ukraine is a true sign that the modern world has moved past this phase of human history (maybe, I'm sure if we ever pull off space exploration we'll be at it again). So sure we can call out individual humans in history that did horrible things and hold them accountable, but those people are not Will and Kate or Harry and Meghan! It isn't Charles. QE2 kind of was on the straggling ends of it.

People have pointed out that like the volcano that wipes out pompei, change can be extremely destructive, and it can also build whole new islands. This is a really complex topic and it is impossible to look back through time and see what the world would be without colonialism. But it is also very ignorant to say that there were not many colonizing empires throughout this time period, and it is simply the ones that didn't die off that we are able to hold their descendents feet to the fire with. Are you hunting down South Americans with Incan blood? Mongol descendants. Heck ROMANS? Germans? The Dutch? The French? The Spanish? The Italians? Like I said we have what the world is today to work with. I think the atrocities of colonization should be taught to all, but holding modern day Britain accountable? I mean I don't get it sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a bizarre thread. I mean no one is advocating for colonization to start back up again? Human history is full of people oppressing, rising up, and starting over to try again. Whole populations have been wiped out along the way. Cultures lost forever, great crimes committed. And great progress has happened alongside that.

Some cultures have been fortunate to remain fairly untouched for thousands of years like China and Japan and others have been through repeated upheavals.

Like the tectonic plates and volcanos you can say that great progress comes from great change. Sometimes change comes at you from within and sometimes externally. Sometimes change is good and sometimes it is horrible. But change has moved the world forward.

The current monarchy has essentially nothing to do with colonization other than that they have not actively set all these countries 'free' but they have essentially started saying 'whatever' to the ones who are seeking independence.

This is like slavery, it is a horrible thing, no one thinks it was good. But it has, for better or worse, shaped the modern world. All we can do is work with what is in front of us.

What should the UK do with this study OP? And this is truly not a defense of colonialism but it was kind of something EVERYONE was doing at the time. The way we think about the world and other cultures has really changed in the last century. But people have been dying because of cruel powerful people for all of human history, this is nothing new or unique to Britain.

Well said.

It’s not well said. The British Empire killed more people vs Nazi Germany, Stalin’s Soviet Union and Imperial Japan combined. Should we celebrating the “benefits” produced by these regimes? The Indians fought many revolts to over throw the British but the continual rape of India was the main source of revenues for the British. This is why India was never “set free” till the British were forced to set them free.

So if 15 people do something terrible but one happens to do it better than the other 14 than the others get off scott free?