Wall 2022--63% admission rate for 9th

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Not the PP you're responding to. Why have an interview at all????? It's absolutely unnecessary to inject human bias and subjective decision-making into an admissions process for a public school. Have GPA+Test+Lottery or GPA+PARCC+Lottery or GPA+Lottery but doing interviews is intentionally selecting children based on random and inconsistent criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Has it occurred to you that private schools are not a taxpayer-funded public good?

This. A private school having an opaque system is not the same thing as a public school having a similar system

The point that I’m making is that it is very difficult to make the “interview rubric” transparent without opening it to gaming. It will be gamed by students/families with more financial resources…which is unfair and inequitable to high achieving poor students.

You may not be wealthy enough to pay private school tuition, but you probably have enough money to pay for Walls test and interview prep.

Every “taxpayer-funded public good” that you want will not be available to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

This isn't complicated at all. Have an admissions process based largely on measures like GPA and test scores. Publish rubric/cutoffs. If you want to have different point cutoffs for ward or by middle school - or the equity measures already used in the lottery by various schools - add that on top and be clear about that as well. Other cities do this. But the cost is that there is additional scrutiny. It seems like DCPS is optimizing for no one being able to tell what they're actually selecting on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Not the PP you're responding to. Why have an interview at all????? It's absolutely unnecessary to inject human bias and subjective decision-making into an admissions process for a public school. Have GPA+Test+Lottery or GPA+PARCC+Lottery or GPA+Lottery but doing interviews is intentionally selecting children based on random and inconsistent criteria.

If you’re so opposed to the current system in place, file a FOIA request or a lawsuit against Walls. Stop talking about it and be about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

This isn't complicated at all. Have an admissions process based largely on measures like GPA and test scores. Publish rubric/cutoffs. If you want to have different point cutoffs for ward or by middle school - or the equity measures already used in the lottery by various schools - add that on top and be clear about that as well. Other cities do this. But the cost is that there is additional scrutiny. It seems like DCPS is optimizing for no one being able to tell what they're actually selecting on.

Inherently inequitable test scores that can be gamed by more affluent families? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Has it occurred to you that private schools are not a taxpayer-funded public good?

This. A private school having an opaque system is not the same thing as a public school having a similar system

The point that I’m making is that it is very difficult to make the “interview rubric” transparent without opening it to gaming. It will be gamed by students/families with more financial resources…which is unfair and inequitable to high achieving poor students.

You may not be wealthy enough to pay private school tuition, but you probably have enough money to pay for Walls test and interview prep.

Every “taxpayer-funded public good” that you want will not be available to you.

It's shocking that people don't trust high school interviewers to be both objective and competent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

This isn't complicated at all. Have an admissions process based largely on measures like GPA and test scores. Publish rubric/cutoffs. If you want to have different point cutoffs for ward or by middle school - or the equity measures already used in the lottery by various schools - add that on top and be clear about that as well. Other cities do this. But the cost is that there is additional scrutiny. It seems like DCPS is optimizing for no one being able to tell what they're actually selecting on.

Inherently inequitable test scores that can be gamed by more affluent families? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Not the PP you're responding to. Why have an interview at all????? It's absolutely unnecessary to inject human bias and subjective decision-making into an admissions process for a public school. Have GPA+Test+Lottery or GPA+PARCC+Lottery or GPA+Lottery but doing interviews is intentionally selecting children based on random and inconsistent criteria.

If you’re so opposed to the current system in place, file a FOIA request or a lawsuit against Walls. Stop talking about it and be about it.

What exactly would a FOIA request or a lawsuit accomplish? What would I be suing them for? Dumb ideas?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

This isn't complicated at all. Have an admissions process based largely on measures like GPA and test scores. Publish rubric/cutoffs. If you want to have different point cutoffs for ward or by middle school - or the equity measures already used in the lottery by various schools - add that on top and be clear about that as well. Other cities do this. But the cost is that there is additional scrutiny. It seems like DCPS is optimizing for no one being able to tell what they're actually selecting on.

Inherently inequitable test scores that can be gamed by more affluent families? No.

Other schools run two separate lotteries where they set aside seats for kids who are not affluent. We have the technology to do that. Throwing out the whole concept of tests is unnecessary to get economic diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Not the PP you're responding to. Why have an interview at all????? It's absolutely unnecessary to inject human bias and subjective decision-making into an admissions process for a public school. Have GPA+Test+Lottery or GPA+PARCC+Lottery or GPA+Lottery but doing interviews is intentionally selecting children based on random and inconsistent criteria.

If you’re so opposed to the current system in place, file a FOIA request or a lawsuit against Walls. Stop talking about it and be about it.

What exactly would a FOIA request or a lawsuit accomplish? What would I be suing them for? Dumb ideas?

Your FOIA request is for the rubric they’re using to evaluate students. Whether you believe or not, the interviewers are using some metric (besides
looks ). Sue them for some sort of discrimination (which is what you and the other complainers are insinuating).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

This isn't complicated at all. Have an admissions process based largely on measures like GPA and test scores. Publish rubric/cutoffs. If you want to have different point cutoffs for ward or by middle school - or the equity measures already used in the lottery by various schools - add that on top and be clear about that as well. Other cities do this. But the cost is that there is additional scrutiny. It seems like DCPS is optimizing for no one being able to tell what they're actually selecting on.

Inherently inequitable test scores that can be gamed by more affluent families? No.

Other schools run two separate lotteries where they set aside seats for kids who are not affluent. We have the technology to do that. Throwing out the whole concept of tests is unnecessary to get economic diversity.

Which selective public magnet schools run two separate lotteries with set asides for poor students? And how many of the 150 seats should be set aside before y’all start complaining about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Not the PP you're responding to. Why have an interview at all????? It's absolutely unnecessary to inject human bias and subjective decision-making into an admissions process for a public school. Have GPA+Test+Lottery or GPA+PARCC+Lottery or GPA+Lottery but doing interviews is intentionally selecting children based on random and inconsistent criteria.

If you’re so opposed to the current system in place, file a FOIA request or a lawsuit against Walls. Stop talking about it and be about it.

What exactly would a FOIA request or a lawsuit accomplish? What would I be suing them for? Dumb ideas?

Your FOIA request is for the rubric they’re using to evaluate students. Whether you believe or not, the interviewers are using some metric (besides
looks ). Sue them for some sort of discrimination (which is what you and the other complainers are insinuating).

The interesting data is PARCC scores, ward/middle school, and what math class each kid is in. I think they are purposely not collecting that in their admissions process so you can't FOIA it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

This isn't complicated at all. Have an admissions process based largely on measures like GPA and test scores. Publish rubric/cutoffs. If you want to have different point cutoffs for ward or by middle school - or the equity measures already used in the lottery by various schools - add that on top and be clear about that as well. Other cities do this. But the cost is that there is additional scrutiny. It seems like DCPS is optimizing for no one being able to tell what they're actually selecting on.

Inherently inequitable test scores that can be gamed by more affluent families? No.

Other schools run two separate lotteries where they set aside seats for kids who are not affluent. We have the technology to do that. Throwing out the whole concept of tests is unnecessary to get economic diversity.

Which selective public magnet schools run two separate lotteries with set asides for poor students? And how many of the 150 seats should be set aside before y’all start complaining about it?

Right - if you're transparent about what you're doing, people have opinions about it, and that's the accountability DCPS doesn't want.

Are you asking who in DC, or in general? In DC, various schools have equity lotteries. Walls could as well. Other cities handle this issue differently, like Chicago has different test scores cutoffs by zip code. But the point is, you can use test scores and on top of that add what are basically quotas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Not the PP you're responding to. Why have an interview at all????? It's absolutely unnecessary to inject human bias and subjective decision-making into an admissions process for a public school. Have GPA+Test+Lottery or GPA+PARCC+Lottery or GPA+Lottery but doing interviews is intentionally selecting children based on random and inconsistent criteria.

If you’re so opposed to the current system in place, file a FOIA request or a lawsuit against Walls. Stop talking about it and be about it.

What exactly would a FOIA request or a lawsuit accomplish? What would I be suing them for? Dumb ideas?

If someone was willing to pursue it and got in front of the right judge, a FIOA suit could be very embarrassing depending on what the actual guidelines are and what the interview notes look like

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

This isn't complicated at all. Have an admissions process based largely on measures like GPA and test scores. Publish rubric/cutoffs. If you want to have different point cutoffs for ward or by middle school - or the equity measures already used in the lottery by various schools - add that on top and be clear about that as well. Other cities do this. But the cost is that there is additional scrutiny. It seems like DCPS is optimizing for no one being able to tell what they're actually selecting on.

Inherently inequitable test scores that can be gamed by more affluent families? No.

Other schools run two separate lotteries where they set aside seats for kids who are not affluent. We have the technology to do that. Throwing out the whole concept of tests is unnecessary to get economic diversity.

Which selective public magnet schools run two separate lotteries with set asides for poor students? And how many of the 150 seats should be set aside before y’all start complaining about it?

Right - if you're transparent about what you're doing, people have opinions about it, and that's the accountability DCPS doesn't want.

Are you asking who in DC, or in general? In DC, various schools have equity lotteries. Walls could as well. Other cities handle this issue differently, like Chicago has different test scores cutoffs by zip code. But the point is, you can use test scores and on top of that add what are basically quotas.

I’m asking which selective academic public magnets run two lotteries? Schools where the GPA cutoff is around a 3.7? Name them.

What’s the point of having test score cutoffs by zip code? You know that wealthier families will just rent an apartment in the neighborhoods with the lowest test score cutoff. There is no solution that you can offer that won’t be exploited by those with the means. None!