Wall 2022--63% admission rate for 9th

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Not the PP you're responding to. Why have an interview at all????? It's absolutely unnecessary to inject human bias and subjective decision-making into an admissions process for a public school. Have GPA+Test+Lottery or GPA+PARCC+Lottery or GPA+Lottery but doing interviews is intentionally selecting children based on random and inconsistent criteria.

If you’re so opposed to the current system in place, file a FOIA request or a lawsuit against Walls. Stop talking about it and be about it.

What exactly would a FOIA request or a lawsuit accomplish? What would I be suing them for? Dumb ideas?

If someone was willing to pursue it and got in front of the right judge, a FIOA suit could be very embarrassing depending on what the actual guidelines are and what the interview notes look like

So stop complaining on DCUM and just do it!

My child is at Walls already, so I’m definitely not going to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Not the PP you're responding to. Why have an interview at all????? It's absolutely unnecessary to inject human bias and subjective decision-making into an admissions process for a public school. Have GPA+Test+Lottery or GPA+PARCC+Lottery or GPA+Lottery but doing interviews is intentionally selecting children based on random and inconsistent criteria.

If you’re so opposed to the current system in place, file a FOIA request or a lawsuit against Walls. Stop talking about it and be about it.

What exactly would a FOIA request or a lawsuit accomplish? What would I be suing them for? Dumb ideas?

If someone was willing to pursue it and got in front of the right judge, a FIOA suit could be very embarrassing depending on what the actual guidelines are and what the interview notes look like

So stop complaining on DCUM and just do it!

My child is at Walls already, so I’m definitely not going to do it.

That's the point. No one is going to do it because no one actually cares. There is no opposition party in DC trying to embarrass DCPS and Walls isn't a high profile school that would be good fodder for right wing media, it's just a pretty good school in DC. The people funding the attacks on TJ, Boston Latin, Stuyvesant, or Lowell have no reason to care about Walls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Not the PP you're responding to. Why have an interview at all????? It's absolutely unnecessary to inject human bias and subjective decision-making into an admissions process for a public school. Have GPA+Test+Lottery or GPA+PARCC+Lottery or GPA+Lottery but doing interviews is intentionally selecting children based on random and inconsistent criteria.

If you’re so opposed to the current system in place, file a FOIA request or a lawsuit against Walls. Stop talking about it and be about it.

What exactly would a FOIA request or a lawsuit accomplish? What would I be suing them for? Dumb ideas?

If someone was willing to pursue it and got in front of the right judge, a FIOA suit could be very embarrassing depending on what the actual guidelines are and what the interview notes look like

So stop complaining on DCUM and just do it!

My child is at Walls already, so I’m definitely not going to do it.

That's the point. No one is going to do it because no one actually cares. There is no opposition party in DC trying to embarrass DCPS and Walls isn't a high profile school that would be good fodder for right wing media, it's just a pretty good school in DC. The people funding the attacks on TJ, Boston Latin, Stuyvesant, or Lowell have no reason to care about Walls

Translation: People will continue to complain about the Walls interview process…but make zero effort to change it. Good to know.

[Anonymous]

Is there something I can do before my kid goes through the process? Trying to understand here thx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there something I can do before my kid goes through the process? Trying to understand here thx

No. No matter what the school says, the net effect is basically random. Make sure you have a backup plan. Try to talk about it in such a way that your kid won’t blame himself if he’s waitlisted #200, and won’t be a jerk about it if one of his friends is waitlisted #200.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

This isn't complicated at all. Have an admissions process based largely on measures like GPA and test scores. Publish rubric/cutoffs. If you want to have different point cutoffs for ward or by middle school - or the equity measures already used in the lottery by various schools - add that on top and be clear about that as well. Other cities do this. But the cost is that there is additional scrutiny. It seems like DCPS is optimizing for no one being able to tell what they're actually selecting on.

Inherently inequitable test scores that can be gamed by more affluent families? No.

Other schools run two separate lotteries where they set aside seats for kids who are not affluent. We have the technology to do that. Throwing out the whole concept of tests is unnecessary to get economic diversity.

Which selective public magnet schools run two separate lotteries with set asides for poor students? And how many of the 150 seats should be set aside before y’all start complaining about it?

Right - if you're transparent about what you're doing, people have opinions about it, and that's the accountability DCPS doesn't want.

Are you asking who in DC, or in general? In DC, various schools have equity lotteries. Walls could as well. Other cities handle this issue differently, like Chicago has different test scores cutoffs by zip code. But the point is, you can use test scores and on top of that add what are basically quotas.

I’m asking which selective academic public magnets run two lotteries? Schools where the GPA cutoff is around a 3.7? Name them.

What’s the point of having test score cutoffs by zip code? You know that wealthier families will just rent an apartment in the neighborhoods with the lowest test score cutoff. There is no solution that you can offer that won’t be exploited by those with the means. None!

Researchers looked at this and the zip code tier policy led to a significantly higher proportion of students who receive subsidized lunches relative to a test-only policy. (Although obviously not as many as if they just looked directly at family income, which you can also do.) You are really overstating the gaming issue. The selective schools doing this in Chicago include schools that are far more selective than SWW, just because it's a much bigger school system, but that's not really relevant. School systems throw out tests not because they want socioeconomic diversity but because they want it without transparency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

This isn't complicated at all. Have an admissions process based largely on measures like GPA and test scores. Publish rubric/cutoffs. If you want to have different point cutoffs for ward or by middle school - or the equity measures already used in the lottery by various schools - add that on top and be clear about that as well. Other cities do this. But the cost is that there is additional scrutiny. It seems like DCPS is optimizing for no one being able to tell what they're actually selecting on.

Inherently inequitable test scores that can be gamed by more affluent families? No.

Other schools run two separate lotteries where they set aside seats for kids who are not affluent. We have the technology to do that. Throwing out the whole concept of tests is unnecessary to get economic diversity.

Which selective public magnet schools run two separate lotteries with set asides for poor students? And how many of the 150 seats should be set aside before y’all start complaining about it?

Right - if you're transparent about what you're doing, people have opinions about it, and that's the accountability DCPS doesn't want.

Are you asking who in DC, or in general? In DC, various schools have equity lotteries. Walls could as well. Other cities handle this issue differently, like Chicago has different test scores cutoffs by zip code. But the point is, you can use test scores and on top of that add what are basically quotas.

I’m asking which selective academic public magnets run two lotteries? Schools where the GPA cutoff is around a 3.7? Name them.

What’s the point of having test score cutoffs by zip code? You know that wealthier families will just rent an apartment in the neighborhoods with the lowest test score cutoff. There is no solution that you can offer that won’t be exploited by those with the means. None!

Researchers looked at this and the zip code tier policy led to a significantly higher proportion of students who receive subsidized lunches relative to a test-only policy. (Although obviously not as many as if they just looked directly at family income, which you can also do.) You are really overstating the gaming issue. The selective schools doing this in Chicago include schools that are far more selective than SWW, just because it's a much bigger school system, but that's not really relevant. School systems throw out tests not because they want socioeconomic diversity but because they want it without transparency.

So what are YOU going to do about it?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

This isn't complicated at all. Have an admissions process based largely on measures like GPA and test scores. Publish rubric/cutoffs. If you want to have different point cutoffs for ward or by middle school - or the equity measures already used in the lottery by various schools - add that on top and be clear about that as well. Other cities do this. But the cost is that there is additional scrutiny. It seems like DCPS is optimizing for no one being able to tell what they're actually selecting on.

Inherently inequitable test scores that can be gamed by more affluent families? No.

Other schools run two separate lotteries where they set aside seats for kids who are not affluent. We have the technology to do that. Throwing out the whole concept of tests is unnecessary to get economic diversity.

Which selective public magnet schools run two separate lotteries with set asides for poor students? And how many of the 150 seats should be set aside before y’all start complaining about it?

Right - if you're transparent about what you're doing, people have opinions about it, and that's the accountability DCPS doesn't want.

Are you asking who in DC, or in general? In DC, various schools have equity lotteries. Walls could as well. Other cities handle this issue differently, like Chicago has different test scores cutoffs by zip code. But the point is, you can use test scores and on top of that add what are basically quotas.

I’m asking which selective academic public magnets run two lotteries? Schools where the GPA cutoff is around a 3.7? Name them.

What’s the point of having test score cutoffs by zip code? You know that wealthier families will just rent an apartment in the neighborhoods with the lowest test score cutoff. There is no solution that you can offer that won’t be exploited by those with the means. None!

Researchers looked at this and the zip code tier policy led to a significantly higher proportion of students who receive subsidized lunches relative to a test-only policy. (Although obviously not as many as if they just looked directly at family income, which you can also do.) You are really overstating the gaming issue. The selective schools doing this in Chicago include schools that are far more selective than SWW, just because it's a much bigger school system, but that's not really relevant. School systems throw out tests not because they want socioeconomic diversity but because they want it without transparency.

So what are YOU going to do about it?!?

The same thing we do every night, Brain, complain about it on dcum and then apply to BASIS and Latin and then move to MD if my kids don't get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

This isn't complicated at all. Have an admissions process based largely on measures like GPA and test scores. Publish rubric/cutoffs. If you want to have different point cutoffs for ward or by middle school - or the equity measures already used in the lottery by various schools - add that on top and be clear about that as well. Other cities do this. But the cost is that there is additional scrutiny. It seems like DCPS is optimizing for no one being able to tell what they're actually selecting on.

Inherently inequitable test scores that can be gamed by more affluent families? No.

Other schools run two separate lotteries where they set aside seats for kids who are not affluent. We have the technology to do that. Throwing out the whole concept of tests is unnecessary to get economic diversity.

Which selective public magnet schools run two separate lotteries with set asides for poor students? And how many of the 150 seats should be set aside before y’all start complaining about it?

Right - if you're transparent about what you're doing, people have opinions about it, and that's the accountability DCPS doesn't want.

Are you asking who in DC, or in general? In DC, various schools have equity lotteries. Walls could as well. Other cities handle this issue differently, like Chicago has different test scores cutoffs by zip code. But the point is, you can use test scores and on top of that add what are basically quotas.

I’m asking which selective academic public magnets run two lotteries? Schools where the GPA cutoff is around a 3.7? Name them.

What’s the point of having test score cutoffs by zip code? You know that wealthier families will just rent an apartment in the neighborhoods with the lowest test score cutoff. There is no solution that you can offer that won’t be exploited by those with the means. None!

Researchers looked at this and the zip code tier policy led to a significantly higher proportion of students who receive subsidized lunches relative to a test-only policy. (Although obviously not as many as if they just looked directly at family income, which you can also do.) You are really overstating the gaming issue. The selective schools doing this in Chicago include schools that are far more selective than SWW, just because it's a much bigger school system, but that's not really relevant. School systems throw out tests not because they want socioeconomic diversity but because they want it without transparency.

So what are YOU going to do about it?!?

The same thing we do every night, Brain, complain about it on dcum and then apply to BASIS and Latin and then move to MD if my kids don't get in.

Thanks—at least you have a plan! It looks painful (the possible move to Maryland), but it’s still a plan beyond just complaining in a chat.

Good luck and Godspeed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there something I can do before my kid goes through the process? Trying to understand here thx

Just ask your kids basic questions--"Why SWW, favorite subject and why, a time when they had to overcome adversity, etc." No one or two word answers-make it a conversation. That's how we coached our DC. So as long as it's conversation it matters less the skill of the interviewer. Good luck..

[Anonymous]

So, now that socially awkward math nerds can’t get into SWW anymore, where do they go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, now that socially awkward math nerds can’t get into SWW anymore, where do they go?

basis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, now that socially awkward math nerds can’t get into SWW anymore, where do they go?

Banneker, McKinley Tech, Basis, local privates, Stanford Online HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, now that socially awkward math nerds can’t get into SWW anymore, where do they go?

Banneker, McKinley Tech, Basis, local privates, Stanford Online HS.

The math nerds in my kid's Deal Algebra 2 class went to Sidwell, St. Albans, GDS and Jackson Reed.

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Anonymous wrote:At least two years ago looks played into who was chosen. My daughter has two friends who are objectively gorgeous--they were selected although they were in low math classes and had multiple Bs. neither took the spots as they had no real interest in Walls. But the interviewers definitely voted for them.

Previous poster again. I should elaborate and say that I know because my daughter and friends were talking about this. of their friend group (8?) the quiet, plain, studious ones were not taken. The beautiful, glam, charismatic ones were, I remember because we had a conversation about it--they were laughing about it.
It's how the world works but kind of crappy for high school admissions but not surprising when 90% of admissions was based on a 2 minute interview by a teenager. a kid is going to consciously or unconsciously go with the visually appealing option.

This is not the first time you’ve posted about this. You don’t know that there interviews were based on looks. Also there are lots of quiet nonglam kids at Walls. Please stop spreading this rumor.

Agreed. I know some very plain looking freshman at Walls. You can say many things about the interview process, but it’s definitely not a beauty contest.

NP. I know a kid who was conducting interviews at Walls and he was laughing about this very thing. He definitely made it sound like he was basing his decisions on looks/people he might want to be friends with. This is a ridiculous way to conduct admissions.

I’m sure there are employers who extend offers to prospective employees for the same reasons. There are administrators and teachers who select students based on biases they’re not even aware they have. It’s certainly not right, but how do you prevent it? If humans are involved in the process, nothing is foolproof.

I think you mean well, but you've just deployed an age old rhetorical device. Nothing is perfect. Humans are fallible. Therefore let's do nothing.

Employers who conduct interviews without standards, job descriptions, rubrics or standard scoring get sued. And lose. Smart employers mandate bias education and development for all employees, and for sure those that conduct interviews. One of the reasons that objective standards (tests, project based assessments, GPA) are used in lieu of interviews and other purely subjective measures is that we have learned over time that subjectivity results in bias, which in turn results in discriminatory behaviors and outcomes. Somehow DC has decided that the way to overcome bias and discrimination is to employ a purely objective standard led by teenagers.

So what is your solution?

My children have gone through the admissions process at both Walls and DC private high schools. The private schools were not one iota more transparent than Walls in terms of what they were looking for during the interview. Yes, the interview lasted longer, but that doesn’t yield more insight for the student about how they’re being evaluated. Oh, private school interviews are also subject to the same implicit bias.

Not the PP you're responding to. Why have an interview at all????? It's absolutely unnecessary to inject human bias and subjective decision-making into an admissions process for a public school. Have GPA+Test+Lottery or GPA+PARCC+Lottery or GPA+Lottery but doing interviews is intentionally selecting children based on random and inconsistent criteria.

If you’re so opposed to the current system in place, file a FOIA request or a lawsuit against Walls. Stop talking about it and be about it.

What exactly would a FOIA request or a lawsuit accomplish? What would I be suing them for? Dumb ideas?

If someone was willing to pursue it and got in front of the right judge, a FIOA suit could be very embarrassing depending on what the actual guidelines are and what the interview notes look like

So stop complaining on DCUM and just do it!

My child is at Walls already, so I’m definitely not going to do it.

That's the point. No one is going to do it because no one actually cares. There is no opposition party in DC trying to embarrass DCPS and Walls isn't a high profile school that would be good fodder for right wing media, it's just a pretty good school in DC. The people funding the attacks on TJ, Boston Latin, Stuyvesant, or Lowell have no reason to care about Walls

If they care about Lowell, then they should care about Walls. Lowell (#82) is only ranked 15 spots higher than Walls (#97).
Link: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings

Plus Walls has a higher college readiness and graduation rate than Lowell. Walls also seems like a much more pleasant place to spend 4 years, based on that documentary.