Waitlisted at TJ - now what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system has no way to measure STEM achievement or interest. It prioritized diversity of geography, disadvantaged students, special ed and English language learners. It does not distinguish between center middle schools and base middle schools thereby making it harder for kids who chose to accept aap center placement and the most rigorous curriculum to get into TJ.

There isn’t anything wrong if we allocate a portion of seats to economically disadvantaged, provided its properly identified. However, I have always been critical about how the new process discriminated against center schools.

What I really want is to correctly identify the stem intersect/talent with whatever selection process there is. It should ‘never’ be case where you (especially kids themselves) cannot explain why some got in while others who appears to be more deserving couldn’t. My kid is damn sure that he would have gotten in if his teachers had any input.

On the whole, I would say my kid is probably more surprised than disappointed by the wait list. He says there are quite a few in the similar situation as his and would have plenty of company at his base school. He just asked me if TJ exclusive course work is more important than college admissions. I said absolutely not and not even by a long shot. He seems to be happy with it and moved on with his stuff.

Last year I was a little skeptical about the efficiency of TJ admissions, but now that I have had first hand experience with my kid and his friends (I have accompanied/interacted with them to several events) , I am sure the new process is screwed up. If you haven’t already gotten it by now, I am sure it will be abundantly clear in 4 years when we learn where TJ stacks up among other schools. All I hope is this is what we really want with TJ. That’s all I have to say! Please feel to disagree and bold any sentence in my post and offer your valuable criticism.

haha. This is what my kid said about two kids (no other experience factors) who received offers from a feeder school - X got in because of race and Y must have lied about being poor otherwise there is no way X or Y could get the offer while there are many others with better grades and clearly smarter got wait listed. When I said race isn't factor my kid said it must be a lottery then as there is no other explanation.

I am sure kids who received offers are definitely above average, but its not like it used to be where we used to know well ahead that who might get into TJ and who might not. It used to be that we were rarely surprised with the kids who got into TJ though there were a very few missed out. Now, kids have no clue and its really really sad. It's like when you get a promotion and everyone thinks you must have offered personal favors. We all know promotions should always be a formality and not a surprise to anyone.

My kid just texted me about one of his bus buddy got in, who is taking algebra I in 8th and with with GPA barely enough to qualify. Owns SF home in the same community as ours, so must not be disadvantaged. This is a center school, with majority AAP and most kids taking Geo HN in 8th with not so insignificant number taking even Algebra 2 as well. Now, my kid is absolutely certain that race is a factor, otherwise there is no way his bus buddy would have gotten in - his buddy himself shocked that he got in apparently. Can anyone explain this with out race being a factor? What the hell is going on??

Did his parents check yes to either of the meals questions?

Race has nothing to do with it!

I would like to think so, but my kid can’t explain at least two admissions with out factoring in race. He thinks only 1 of 5 admissions he is aware is apparently smart according to him and none of the other smart/standout kids that he knew didn’t get in. No idea what boxes anyone checked in, no one will reveal them and it’s up to anyone’s interpretation. I wish fcps makes every admission, gpa and selection criteria public.

I hope race wasn’t a factor, but with kids (mine and others) assuming/discussing it absolutely is, I am afraid kids start developing unnecessary resentment and affected psychologically. This is all my kid and his friends were talking/discussing since Friday, who got in and how they could have got in. It really sucks kids discussing these things and I really hope they get over it.

First of all, your 8th grader has no real idea what his "bus buddy's" schoolwork, recommendations, and essay are really like. None. Secondly, you as a parent could go a long way with helping your kid understand by explaining that they have no real idea and should expand their critical thinking skills to avoid logical fallacies like the false dichotomy he's created.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the folks who said kids are discussing race. They did discuss their answers after the exam and the know each other's performance and grades in class over the years. To say kids are naïve is not true. There is not so much (very minimal to zero) critical thinking in the TJ exam in the latest format. So not letting the kids know the criteria is deceiving. Its its lottery which it seems like, let them know they got unlucky. FCPS needs to be open with the criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Its not as much of a black box as you think it is. There was a leaked internal document I found in these forums a while back. I think you find this at the web page where TJ coalition tried to sue FCPS - you/I may not like the coalition, but this document was real and came from FCPS internal discussions. Just google searched 'leaked TJ docs' and found the TJHSST Scoring Rubric’ (Exhibit B) under here https://defendinged.org/incidents/tjpapers/. You are free to dismiss and claim everything you found under the page is made up, but please note that these docs were submitted to the judge as well. This says 300 points for GPA, 300 points for essay, 300 points for portrait sheet and 300 points for other factors.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[Anonymous]

Try explaining race and affirmative action to kids when they ask if we all went to same school, had the same teachers and access to the same study info, technology, same busy parents who are busy making a living, why would race count?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system has no way to measure STEM achievement or interest. It prioritized diversity of geography, disadvantaged students, special ed and English language learners. It does not distinguish between center middle schools and base middle schools thereby making it harder for kids who chose to accept aap center placement and the most rigorous curriculum to get into TJ.

There isn’t anything wrong if we allocate a portion of seats to economically disadvantaged, provided its properly identified. However, I have always been critical about how the new process discriminated against center schools.

What I really want is to correctly identify the stem intersect/talent with whatever selection process there is. It should ‘never’ be case where you (especially kids themselves) cannot explain why some got in while others who appears to be more deserving couldn’t. My kid is damn sure that he would have gotten in if his teachers had any input.

On the whole, I would say my kid is probably more surprised than disappointed by the wait list. He says there are quite a few in the similar situation as his and would have plenty of company at his base school. He just asked me if TJ exclusive course work is more important than college admissions. I said absolutely not and not even by a long shot. He seems to be happy with it and moved on with his stuff.

Last year I was a little skeptical about the efficiency of TJ admissions, but now that I have had first hand experience with my kid and his friends (I have accompanied/interacted with them to several events) , I am sure the new process is screwed up. If you haven’t already gotten it by now, I am sure it will be abundantly clear in 4 years when we learn where TJ stacks up among other schools. All I hope is this is what we really want with TJ. That’s all I have to say! Please feel to disagree and bold any sentence in my post and offer your valuable criticism.

haha. This is what my kid said about two kids (no other experience factors) who received offers from a feeder school - X got in because of race and Y must have lied about being poor otherwise there is no way X or Y could get the offer while there are many others with better grades and clearly smarter got wait listed. When I said race isn't factor my kid said it must be a lottery then as there is no other explanation.

I am sure kids who received offers are definitely above average, but its not like it used to be where we used to know well ahead that who might get into TJ and who might not. It used to be that we were rarely surprised with the kids who got into TJ though there were a very few missed out. Now, kids have no clue and its really really sad. It's like when you get a promotion and everyone thinks you must have offered personal favors. We all know promotions should always be a formality and not a surprise to anyone.

My kid just texted me about one of his bus buddy got in, who is taking algebra I in 8th and with with GPA barely enough to qualify. Owns SF home in the same community as ours, so must not be disadvantaged. This is a center school, with majority AAP and most kids taking Geo HN in 8th with not so insignificant number taking even Algebra 2 as well. Now, my kid is absolutely certain that race is a factor, otherwise there is no way his bus buddy would have gotten in - his buddy himself shocked that he got in apparently. Can anyone explain this with out race being a factor? What the hell is going on??

Did his parents check yes to either of the meals questions?

Race has nothing to do with it!

I would like to think so, but my kid can’t explain at least two admissions with out factoring in race. He thinks only 1 of 5 admissions he is aware is apparently smart according to him and none of the other smart/standout kids that he knew didn’t get in. No idea what boxes anyone checked in, no one will reveal them and it’s up to anyone’s interpretation. I wish fcps makes every admission, gpa and selection criteria public.

I hope race wasn’t a factor, but with kids (mine and others) assuming/discussing it absolutely is, I am afraid kids start developing unnecessary resentment and affected psychologically. This is all my kid and his friends were talking/discussing since Friday, who got in and how they could have got in. It really sucks kids discussing these things and I really hope they get over it.

First of all, your 8th grader has no real idea what his "bus buddy's" schoolwork, recommendations, and essay are really like. None. Secondly, you as a parent could go a long way with helping your kid understand by explaining that they have no real idea and should expand their critical thinking skills to avoid logical fallacies like the false dichotomy he's created.

A small correction - kids know each others courses, grades etc. And, there are NO recommendations for TJ. The only thing they don't know is essays. If other kid didn't have B+ english and multiple A- and/or have active participation in STEM activities/electives at school, then it wouldn't have been a surprise for anyone. In any case, I would like to believe that there is no other factor involved (the kid is definitely not poor as he lives in similar house as we do) and Kid has stellar essays that outshined perfect 4.0 GPAs of other kids who couldn't get in.

Having said, you correct. my kid or I have no real idea what factors were played into anyones admission. To tell you the truth, unless you are part of TJ admissions committee, we are all speculating here. With out the straight facts, we both are equally correct or equally wrong. Also, thanks for your parenting advise. You are not the only one trying to protect kids from developing unhealthy opinions. Just because I said something on this forum and/or trying to figure out if there is anyone else facing something similar, it doesn't mean I would let my kid go wild with his interpretations. We all try our best! Or you could continue to think that I/we lack critical thinking skills, whatever makes you happy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the folks who said kids are discussing race. They did discuss their answers after the exam and the know each other's performance and grades in class over the years. To say kids are naïve is not true. There is not so much (very minimal to zero) critical thinking in the TJ exam in the latest format. So not letting the kids know the criteria is deceiving. Its its lottery which it seems like, let them know they got unlucky. FCPS needs to be open with the criteria.

yes, 8th graders are definitely not naive. To our surprise, they do understand what they are talking about and the only thing that is difficult for them is to how to control their emotions. My kid even argues that they know more about politics and government than many adults who are victims of extremism and manipulation and believing in crazy theories even a 5th grader could easily dismiss. He says that if these adults can vote, a well informed typical middle school kid should also be able to vote and why does it require be 18 years of age etc. Before you argue, of course he knows 18 is generally agreed age for adults and you can't evaluate everyone mental capabilities . So, yes we all understand its rule, but logically, I had to agree with him that he is more than informed than a average voting age adult and should be allowed to vote

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system has no way to measure STEM achievement or interest. It prioritized diversity of geography, disadvantaged students, special ed and English language learners. It does not distinguish between center middle schools and base middle schools thereby making it harder for kids who chose to accept aap center placement and the most rigorous curriculum to get into TJ.

There isn’t anything wrong if we allocate a portion of seats to economically disadvantaged, provided its properly identified. However, I have always been critical about how the new process discriminated against center schools.

What I really want is to correctly identify the stem intersect/talent with whatever selection process there is. It should ‘never’ be case where you (especially kids themselves) cannot explain why some got in while others who appears to be more deserving couldn’t. My kid is damn sure that he would have gotten in if his teachers had any input.

On the whole, I would say my kid is probably more surprised than disappointed by the wait list. He says there are quite a few in the similar situation as his and would have plenty of company at his base school. He just asked me if TJ exclusive course work is more important than college admissions. I said absolutely not and not even by a long shot. He seems to be happy with it and moved on with his stuff.

Last year I was a little skeptical about the efficiency of TJ admissions, but now that I have had first hand experience with my kid and his friends (I have accompanied/interacted with them to several events) , I am sure the new process is screwed up. If you haven’t already gotten it by now, I am sure it will be abundantly clear in 4 years when we learn where TJ stacks up among other schools. All I hope is this is what we really want with TJ. That’s all I have to say! Please feel to disagree and bold any sentence in my post and offer your valuable criticism.

haha. This is what my kid said about two kids (no other experience factors) who received offers from a feeder school - X got in because of race and Y must have lied about being poor otherwise there is no way X or Y could get the offer while there are many others with better grades and clearly smarter got wait listed. When I said race isn't factor my kid said it must be a lottery then as there is no other explanation.

I am sure kids who received offers are definitely above average, but its not like it used to be where we used to know well ahead that who might get into TJ and who might not. It used to be that we were rarely surprised with the kids who got into TJ though there were a very few missed out. Now, kids have no clue and its really really sad. It's like when you get a promotion and everyone thinks you must have offered personal favors. We all know promotions should always be a formality and not a surprise to anyone.

My kid just texted me about one of his bus buddy got in, who is taking algebra I in 8th and with with GPA barely enough to qualify. Owns SF home in the same community as ours, so must not be disadvantaged. This is a center school, with majority AAP and most kids taking Geo HN in 8th with not so insignificant number taking even Algebra 2 as well. Now, my kid is absolutely certain that race is a factor, otherwise there is no way his bus buddy would have gotten in - his buddy himself shocked that he got in apparently. Can anyone explain this with out race being a factor? What the hell is going on??

Did his parents check yes to either of the meals questions?

Race has nothing to do with it!

I would like to think so, but my kid can’t explain at least two admissions with out factoring in race. He thinks only 1 of 5 admissions he is aware is apparently smart according to him and none of the other smart/standout kids that he knew didn’t get in. No idea what boxes anyone checked in, no one will reveal them and it’s up to anyone’s interpretation. I wish fcps makes every admission, gpa and selection criteria public.

I hope race wasn’t a factor, but with kids (mine and others) assuming/discussing it absolutely is, I am afraid kids start developing unnecessary resentment and affected psychologically. This is all my kid and his friends were talking/discussing since Friday, who got in and how they could have got in. It really sucks kids discussing these things and I really hope they get over it.

First of all, your 8th grader has no real idea what his "bus buddy's" schoolwork, recommendations, and essay are really like. None. Secondly, you as a parent could go a long way with helping your kid understand by explaining that they have no real idea and should expand their critical thinking skills to avoid logical fallacies like the false dichotomy he's created.

Exactly the selection committee doesn't even know an applicant's race so not like that's a real factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Try explaining race and affirmative action to kids when they ask if we all went to same school, had the same teachers and access to the same study info, technology, same busy parents who are busy making a living, why would race count?

Except there isn't any affirmative action since race isn't a factor; however, I think this false narrative that strongly supports switching selection to a pure lottery to eliminate this nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try explaining race and affirmative action to kids when they ask if we all went to same school, had the same teachers and access to the same study info, technology, same busy parents who are busy making a living, why would race count?

Except there isn't any affirmative action since race isn't a factor; however, I think this false narrative that strongly supports switching selection to a pure lottery to eliminate this nonsense.

I commented a few times on this thread and I strongly support the lottery as it eliminates all the speculation. I doubt it makes much of difference as we clearly know that kids with perfect GPA's weren't offered admissions while others with barely enough GPA and no STEM interest to show for got offered. It may be essays that made the difference, but for all practical purposes, it is not much different from lottery, but with lottery, you at least know why you didn't get admission.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand people saying that 8th grade Algebra 1 kids don’t belong at TJ and they would get eaten by the TJ Math dept. When they made that change wouldn’t that have been taken into consideration? Maybe they believed those kids also can succeed at TJ and can be admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people saying that 8th grade Algebra 1 kids don’t belong at TJ and they would get eaten by the TJ Math dept. When they made that change wouldn’t that have been taken into consideration? Maybe they believed those kids also can succeed at TJ and can be admitted.

The school is supposed to be for students very interested in STEM careers. Algebra I in 8th doesn’t put a student on a path to engineering at competitive colleges. Algebra I in 8th is average not advanced. Honors Geometry should be the minimum requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people saying that 8th grade Algebra 1 kids don’t belong at TJ and they would get eaten by the TJ Math dept. When they made that change wouldn’t that have been taken into consideration? Maybe they believed those kids also can succeed at TJ and can be admitted.

The school is supposed to be for students very interested in STEM careers. Algebra I in 8th doesn’t put a student on a path to engineering at competitive colleges. Algebra I in 8th is average not advanced. Honors Geometry should be the minimum requirement.

Every school doesn't have enough of an advanced cohort to offer Algebra 1 in 7th

The SB made a decision to "diversify" by trying to offer admissions to the top 1.5% at each middle school, that removes the total amoung of kids coming from the traditional AAP feeders and you have what you have today. Plenty of kids from the traditional AAP feeders that are more advanced than kids getting in just by being in the top 1.5% at another middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people saying that 8th grade Algebra 1 kids don’t belong at TJ and they would get eaten by the TJ Math dept. When they made that change wouldn’t that have been taken into consideration? Maybe they believed those kids also can succeed at TJ and can be admitted.

The school is supposed to be for students very interested in STEM careers. Algebra I in 8th doesn’t put a student on a path to engineering at competitive colleges. Algebra I in 8th is average not advanced. Honors Geometry should be the minimum requirement.

Every school doesn't have enough of an advanced cohort to offer Algebra 1 in 7th

The SB made a decision to "diversify" by trying to offer admissions to the top 1.5% at each middle school, that removes the total amoung of kids coming from the traditional AAP feeders and you have what you have today. Plenty of kids from the traditional AAP feeders that are more advanced than kids getting in just by being in the top 1.5% at another middle school.

If they don’t have enough of a cohort for Algebra in 7th, the county should offer the class virtually. I know someone who did this over thirty years ago with recorded lectures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people saying that 8th grade Algebra 1 kids don’t belong at TJ and they would get eaten by the TJ Math dept. When they made that change wouldn’t that have been taken into consideration? Maybe they believed those kids also can succeed at TJ and can be admitted.

The school is supposed to be for students very interested in STEM careers. Algebra I in 8th doesn’t put a student on a path to engineering at competitive colleges. Algebra I in 8th is average not advanced. Honors Geometry should be the minimum requirement.

Every school doesn't have enough of an advanced cohort to offer Algebra 1 in 7th

The SB made a decision to "diversify" by trying to offer admissions to the top 1.5% at each middle school, that removes the total amount of kids coming from the traditional AAP feeders and you have what you have today. Plenty of kids from the traditional AAP feeders that are more advanced than kids getting in just by being in the top 1.5% at another middle school.

School Admits 2024/2025

Carson 82/42
Longfellow 57/28
Cooper 33/20
Rocky Run 32/24
Frost 20/<15
Lake Braddock 17/12

Source

http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people saying that 8th grade Algebra 1 kids don’t belong at TJ and they would get eaten by the TJ Math dept. When they made that change wouldn’t that have been taken into consideration? Maybe they believed those kids also can succeed at TJ and can be admitted.

The kids who get eaten alive by the TJ Math department are NOT the ones who enter in Geometry after Alg 1 in 8th. Indeed, those students end up being some of the strongest in math from a foundational perspective because they took the entire high school math sequence with and among TJ students and faculty.

The kids who get eaten alive are the ones who are artificially advanced in Math beyond their actual level of comprehension and ability. These are the kids whose parents secretly send them to additional private tutoring in order to keep up.