Waitlisted at TJ - now what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For moving off the waitlist, Will TJ Admission Office check achievements made by the students after January? Most National awards came out in May.

They will not. To be fair to all applicants, they only consider data up until January.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's also a shame for us, who are willing to send kids to a school with such a ridiculous admission process.

Btw did you know there is a TJ prep class even though that is what they were trying to get away from. Since the essay is so important, the kids I know that actually took it, got in (again every kid we know has a 4.0 with tons of extracurriculars). The others that got with similar or less than this without TJ prep had other identifiers (not white and not Asian).

Prep is still important for TJ admissions. The kids that were prepared for the essays and had them ready to go did well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system has no way to measure STEM achievement or interest. It prioritized diversity of geography, disadvantaged students, special ed and English language learners. It does not distinguish between center middle schools and base middle schools thereby making it harder for kids who chose to accept aap center placement and the most rigorous curriculum to get into TJ.

There isn’t anything wrong if we allocate a portion of seats to economically disadvantaged, provided its properly identified. However, I have always been critical about how the new process discriminated against center schools.

What I really want is to correctly identify the stem intersect/talent with whatever selection process there is. It should ‘never’ be case where you (especially kids themselves) cannot explain why some got in while others who appears to be more deserving couldn’t. My kid is damn sure that he would have gotten in if his teachers had any input.

On the whole, I would say my kid is probably more surprised than disappointed by the wait list. He says there are quite a few in the similar situation as his and would have plenty of company at his base school. He just asked me if TJ exclusive course work is more important than college admissions. I said absolutely not and not even by a long shot. He seems to be happy with it and moved on with his stuff.

Last year I was a little skeptical about the efficiency of TJ admissions, but now that I have had first hand experience with my kid and his friends (I have accompanied/interacted with them to several events) , I am sure the new process is screwed up. If you haven’t already gotten it by now, I am sure it will be abundantly clear in 4 years when we learn where TJ stacks up among other schools. All I hope is this is what we really want with TJ. That’s all I have to say! Please feel to disagree and bold any sentence in my post and offer your valuable criticism.

haha. This is what my kid said about two kids (no other experience factors) who received offers from a feeder school - X got in because of race and Y must have lied about being poor otherwise there is no way X or Y could get the offer while there are many others with better grades and clearly smarter got wait listed. When I said race isn't factor my kid said it must be a lottery then as there is no other explanation.

I am sure kids who received offers are definitely above average, but its not like it used to be where we used to know well ahead that who might get into TJ and who might not. It used to be that we were rarely surprised with the kids who got into TJ though there were a very few missed out. Now, kids have no clue and its really really sad. It's like when you get a promotion and everyone thinks you must have offered personal favors. We all know promotions should always be a formality and not a surprise to anyone.

My kid just texted me about one of his bus buddy got in, who is taking algebra I in 8th and with with GPA barely enough to qualify. Owns SF home in the same community as ours, so must not be disadvantaged. This is a center school, with majority AAP and most kids taking Geo HN in 8th with not so insignificant number taking even Algebra 2 as well. Now, my kid is absolutely certain that race is a factor, otherwise there is no way his bus buddy would have gotten in - his buddy himself shocked that he got in apparently. Can anyone explain this with out race being a factor? What the hell is going on??

Did his parents check yes to either of the meals questions?

Race has nothing to do with it!

I would like to think so, but my kid can’t explain at least two admissions with out factoring in race. He thinks only 1 of 5 admissions he is aware is apparently smart according to him and none of the other smart/standout kids that he knew didn’t get in. No idea what boxes anyone checked in, no one will reveal them and it’s up to anyone’s interpretation. I wish fcps makes every admission, gpa and selection criteria public.

I hope race wasn’t a factor, but with kids (mine and others) assuming/discussing it absolutely is, I am afraid kids start developing unnecessary resentment and affected psychologically. This is all my kid and his friends were talking/discussing since Friday, who got in and how they could have got in. It really sucks kids discussing these things and I really hope they get over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system has no way to measure STEM achievement or interest. It prioritized diversity of geography, disadvantaged students, special ed and English language learners. It does not distinguish between center middle schools and base middle schools thereby making it harder for kids who chose to accept aap center placement and the most rigorous curriculum to get into TJ.

There isn’t anything wrong if we allocate a portion of seats to economically disadvantaged, provided its properly identified. However, I have always been critical about how the new process discriminated against center schools.

What I really want is to correctly identify the stem intersect/talent with whatever selection process there is. It should ‘never’ be case where you (especially kids themselves) cannot explain why some got in while others who appears to be more deserving couldn’t. My kid is damn sure that he would have gotten in if his teachers had any input.

On the whole, I would say my kid is probably more surprised than disappointed by the wait list. He says there are quite a few in the similar situation as his and would have plenty of company at his base school. He just asked me if TJ exclusive course work is more important than college admissions. I said absolutely not and not even by a long shot. He seems to be happy with it and moved on with his stuff.

Last year I was a little skeptical about the efficiency of TJ admissions, but now that I have had first hand experience with my kid and his friends (I have accompanied/interacted with them to several events) , I am sure the new process is screwed up. If you haven’t already gotten it by now, I am sure it will be abundantly clear in 4 years when we learn where TJ stacks up among other schools. All I hope is this is what we really want with TJ. That’s all I have to say! Please feel to disagree and bold any sentence in my post and offer your valuable criticism.

haha. This is what my kid said about two kids (no other experience factors) who received offers from a feeder school - X got in because of race and Y must have lied about being poor otherwise there is no way X or Y could get the offer while there are many others with better grades and clearly smarter got wait listed. When I said race isn't factor my kid said it must be a lottery then as there is no other explanation.

I am sure kids who received offers are definitely above average, but its not like it used to be where we used to know well ahead that who might get into TJ and who might not. It used to be that we were rarely surprised with the kids who got into TJ though there were a very few missed out. Now, kids have no clue and its really really sad. It's like when you get a promotion and everyone thinks you must have offered personal favors. We all know promotions should always be a formality and not a surprise to anyone.

My kid just texted me about one of his bus buddy got in, who is taking algebra I in 8th and with with GPA barely enough to qualify. Owns SF home in the same community as ours, so must not be disadvantaged. This is a center school, with majority AAP and most kids taking Geo HN in 8th with not so insignificant number taking even Algebra 2 as well. Now, my kid is absolutely certain that race is a factor, otherwise there is no way his bus buddy would have gotten in - his buddy himself shocked that he got in apparently. Can anyone explain this with out race being a factor? What the hell is going on??

Did his parents check yes to either of the meals questions?

Race has nothing to do with it!

I would like to think so, but my kid can’t explain at least two admissions with out factoring in race. He thinks only 1 of 5 admissions he is aware is apparently smart according to him and none of the other smart/standout kids that he knew didn’t get in. No idea what boxes anyone checked in, no one will reveal them and it’s up to anyone’s interpretation. I wish fcps makes every admission, gpa and selection criteria public.

I hope race wasn’t a factor, but with kids (mine and others) assuming/discussing it absolutely is, I am afraid kids start developing unnecessary resentment and affected psychologically. This is all my kid and his friends were talking/discussing since Friday, who got in and how they could have got in. It really sucks kids discussing these things and I really hope they get over it.

They would be discussing it under any admissions system. If they are focused on the race element, it is your job to discuss that with them and explain why that is problematic. They don't know what the admissions folks graded each application on. Just because they think they know who is smart or who is not doesn't mean that they, or you, know who is "smart" and who isn't. Kids can discuss grades all they want but you don't really know what their tests scores look like.

And you don't know what they put in their essays. I have graded AP exams and I can promise you that there are a good number of kids, I would guesstimate 20%, would write nothing or write about their prom plans or write about why they didn't want to take these exams. For all you know, kids wrote nothing or wrote about nothing related to the subject. They could be putting up a front that this is important to them because it is important to their friends or their parents.

Essentially, you don't know why people were selected or not selected. What you assume you know could very well be wrong.

The focus for the parents of kids who did not get into TJ should be on discussing the opportunities that they have at their base school and what type of extra curriculars they can do to fill in areas of interest. It is normal to be disappointed and clearly it is ok to be upset but allowing people to use the low hanging fruit as their explanation when, to be frank, we have no clue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system has no way to measure STEM achievement or interest. It prioritized diversity of geography, disadvantaged students, special ed and English language learners. It does not distinguish between center middle schools and base middle schools thereby making it harder for kids who chose to accept aap center placement and the most rigorous curriculum to get into TJ.

There isn’t anything wrong if we allocate a portion of seats to economically disadvantaged, provided its properly identified. However, I have always been critical about how the new process discriminated against center schools.

What I really want is to correctly identify the stem intersect/talent with whatever selection process there is. It should ‘never’ be case where you (especially kids themselves) cannot explain why some got in while others who appears to be more deserving couldn’t. My kid is damn sure that he would have gotten in if his teachers had any input.

On the whole, I would say my kid is probably more surprised than disappointed by the wait list. He says there are quite a few in the similar situation as his and would have plenty of company at his base school. He just asked me if TJ exclusive course work is more important than college admissions. I said absolutely not and not even by a long shot. He seems to be happy with it and moved on with his stuff.

Last year I was a little skeptical about the efficiency of TJ admissions, but now that I have had first hand experience with my kid and his friends (I have accompanied/interacted with them to several events) , I am sure the new process is screwed up. If you haven’t already gotten it by now, I am sure it will be abundantly clear in 4 years when we learn where TJ stacks up among other schools. All I hope is this is what we really want with TJ. That’s all I have to say! Please feel to disagree and bold any sentence in my post and offer your valuable criticism.

haha. This is what my kid said about two kids (no other experience factors) who received offers from a feeder school - X got in because of race and Y must have lied about being poor otherwise there is no way X or Y could get the offer while there are many others with better grades and clearly smarter got wait listed. When I said race isn't factor my kid said it must be a lottery then as there is no other explanation.

I am sure kids who received offers are definitely above average, but its not like it used to be where we used to know well ahead that who might get into TJ and who might not. It used to be that we were rarely surprised with the kids who got into TJ though there were a very few missed out. Now, kids have no clue and its really really sad. It's like when you get a promotion and everyone thinks you must have offered personal favors. We all know promotions should always be a formality and not a surprise to anyone.

My kid just texted me about one of his bus buddy got in, who is taking algebra I in 8th and with with GPA barely enough to qualify. Owns SF home in the same community as ours, so must not be disadvantaged. This is a center school, with majority AAP and most kids taking Geo HN in 8th with not so insignificant number taking even Algebra 2 as well. Now, my kid is absolutely certain that race is a factor, otherwise there is no way his bus buddy would have gotten in - his buddy himself shocked that he got in apparently. Can anyone explain this with out race being a factor? What the hell is going on??

Did his parents check yes to either of the meals questions?

Race has nothing to do with it!

I would like to think so, but my kid can’t explain at least two admissions with out factoring in race. He thinks only 1 of 5 admissions he is aware is apparently smart according to him and none of the other smart/standout kids that he knew didn’t get in. No idea what boxes anyone checked in, no one will reveal them and it’s up to anyone’s interpretation. I wish fcps makes every admission, gpa and selection criteria public.

I hope race wasn’t a factor, but with kids (mine and others) assuming/discussing it absolutely is, I am afraid kids start developing unnecessary resentment and affected psychologically. This is all my kid and his friends were talking/discussing since Friday, who got in and how they could have got in. It really sucks kids discussing these things and I really hope they get over it.

They would be discussing it under any admissions system. If they are focused on the race element, it is your job to discuss that with them and explain why that is problematic. They don't know what the admissions folks graded each application on. Just because they think they know who is smart or who is not doesn't mean that they, or you, know who is "smart" and who isn't. Kids can discuss grades all they want but you don't really know what their tests scores look like.

And you don't know what they put in their essays. I have graded AP exams and I can promise you that there are a good number of kids, I would guesstimate 20%, would write nothing or write about their prom plans or write about why they didn't want to take these exams. For all you know, kids wrote nothing or wrote about nothing related to the subject. They could be putting up a front that this is important to them because it is important to their friends or their parents.

Essentially, you don't know why people were selected or not selected. What you assume you know could very well be wrong.

The focus for the parents of kids who did not get into TJ should be on discussing the opportunities that they have at their base school and what type of extra curriculars they can do to fill in areas of interest. It is normal to be disappointed and clearly it is ok to be upset but allowing people to use the low hanging fruit as their explanation when, to be frank, we have no clue.

You are missing something here. There are no test scores here. Just grades, essay and portrait sheet. All these kids know each others grades and unweighted GPA etc. Yes, they don't know how anyone's essays are graded. All they could know who would have gotten in if the grades were important and teacher input was actually sought. Of course the first thing I told is grades weren't really important as its only 1/3rd of total weight and rest of the 2/3rd weight goes to essays and may be those kids would have written amazingly well. His said was their english grades weren't better well, grades may not translate to essays. His argument was kids with perfect GPA, participating in lots of STEM activities at school, taking STEM exclusive electives didn't get in where kids with barely enough GPA, definitely not poor, no participation in STEM activities, no STEM electives etc were able to get in. So, we had this argument and it was difficult for me to convince him that race wasn't factor. So, his final take was if it weren't a race, it must be a lottery as he sees no other explanation unless the essays were stellar to overcome the GPA deficit.

If you have kids, you know pretty well teenage kids think they know better and are easily influenced by their friends. They don't pay that much attention to our/parents explanations, though we constantly try. Thats what bothered me when he is talking about race which he never did until now. I hope FCPS comes clear out of this and if not, kids will assume whatever they want to assume.

End of the day, TJ is definitely not going to what it used to be. Its no longer a destination for top STEM focussed students. So many kids with genuine interest in STEM couldn't get in and kids who had barely anything to show for including GPA got in. At least base schools are going to be better and I am sure my kid will do fine at base school after overcoming his disappointment and all the surprises about who got in and who didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system has no way to measure STEM achievement or interest. It prioritized diversity of geography, disadvantaged students, special ed and English language learners. It does not distinguish between center middle schools and base middle schools thereby making it harder for kids who chose to accept aap center placement and the most rigorous curriculum to get into TJ.

There isn’t anything wrong if we allocate a portion of seats to economically disadvantaged, provided its properly identified. However, I have always been critical about how the new process discriminated against center schools.

What I really want is to correctly identify the stem intersect/talent with whatever selection process there is. It should ‘never’ be case where you (especially kids themselves) cannot explain why some got in while others who appears to be more deserving couldn’t. My kid is damn sure that he would have gotten in if his teachers had any input.

On the whole, I would say my kid is probably more surprised than disappointed by the wait list. He says there are quite a few in the similar situation as his and would have plenty of company at his base school. He just asked me if TJ exclusive course work is more important than college admissions. I said absolutely not and not even by a long shot. He seems to be happy with it and moved on with his stuff.

Last year I was a little skeptical about the efficiency of TJ admissions, but now that I have had first hand experience with my kid and his friends (I have accompanied/interacted with them to several events) , I am sure the new process is screwed up. If you haven’t already gotten it by now, I am sure it will be abundantly clear in 4 years when we learn where TJ stacks up among other schools. All I hope is this is what we really want with TJ. That’s all I have to say! Please feel to disagree and bold any sentence in my post and offer your valuable criticism.

haha. This is what my kid said about two kids (no other experience factors) who received offers from a feeder school - X got in because of race and Y must have lied about being poor otherwise there is no way X or Y could get the offer while there are many others with better grades and clearly smarter got wait listed. When I said race isn't factor my kid said it must be a lottery then as there is no other explanation.

I am sure kids who received offers are definitely above average, but its not like it used to be where we used to know well ahead that who might get into TJ and who might not. It used to be that we were rarely surprised with the kids who got into TJ though there were a very few missed out. Now, kids have no clue and its really really sad. It's like when you get a promotion and everyone thinks you must have offered personal favors. We all know promotions should always be a formality and not a surprise to anyone.

My kid just texted me about one of his bus buddy got in, who is taking algebra I in 8th and with with GPA barely enough to qualify. Owns SF home in the same community as ours, so must not be disadvantaged. This is a center school, with majority AAP and most kids taking Geo HN in 8th with not so insignificant number taking even Algebra 2 as well. Now, my kid is absolutely certain that race is a factor, otherwise there is no way his bus buddy would have gotten in - his buddy himself shocked that he got in apparently. Can anyone explain this with out race being a factor? What the hell is going on??

Did his parents check yes to either of the meals questions?

Race has nothing to do with it!

I would like to think so, but my kid can’t explain at least two admissions with out factoring in race. He thinks only 1 of 5 admissions he is aware is apparently smart according to him and none of the other smart/standout kids that he knew didn’t get in. No idea what boxes anyone checked in, no one will reveal them and it’s up to anyone’s interpretation. I wish fcps makes every admission, gpa and selection criteria public.

I hope race wasn’t a factor, but with kids (mine and others) assuming/discussing it absolutely is, I am afraid kids start developing unnecessary resentment and affected psychologically. This is all my kid and his friends were talking/discussing since Friday, who got in and how they could have got in. It really sucks kids discussing these things and I really hope they get over it.

Good for the kids to see through the nonsense. Most will be happier at their base schools anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system has no way to measure STEM achievement or interest. It prioritized diversity of geography, disadvantaged students, special ed and English language learners. It does not distinguish between center middle schools and base middle schools thereby making it harder for kids who chose to accept aap center placement and the most rigorous curriculum to get into TJ.

There isn’t anything wrong if we allocate a portion of seats to economically disadvantaged, provided its properly identified. However, I have always been critical about how the new process discriminated against center schools.

What I really want is to correctly identify the stem intersect/talent with whatever selection process there is. It should ‘never’ be case where you (especially kids themselves) cannot explain why some got in while others who appears to be more deserving couldn’t. My kid is damn sure that he would have gotten in if his teachers had any input.

On the whole, I would say my kid is probably more surprised than disappointed by the wait list. He says there are quite a few in the similar situation as his and would have plenty of company at his base school. He just asked me if TJ exclusive course work is more important than college admissions. I said absolutely not and not even by a long shot. He seems to be happy with it and moved on with his stuff.

Last year I was a little skeptical about the efficiency of TJ admissions, but now that I have had first hand experience with my kid and his friends (I have accompanied/interacted with them to several events) , I am sure the new process is screwed up. If you haven’t already gotten it by now, I am sure it will be abundantly clear in 4 years when we learn where TJ stacks up among other schools. All I hope is this is what we really want with TJ. That’s all I have to say! Please feel to disagree and bold any sentence in my post and offer your valuable criticism.

haha. This is what my kid said about two kids (no other experience factors) who received offers from a feeder school - X got in because of race and Y must have lied about being poor otherwise there is no way X or Y could get the offer while there are many others with better grades and clearly smarter got wait listed. When I said race isn't factor my kid said it must be a lottery then as there is no other explanation.

I am sure kids who received offers are definitely above average, but its not like it used to be where we used to know well ahead that who might get into TJ and who might not. It used to be that we were rarely surprised with the kids who got into TJ though there were a very few missed out. Now, kids have no clue and its really really sad. It's like when you get a promotion and everyone thinks you must have offered personal favors. We all know promotions should always be a formality and not a surprise to anyone.

My kid just texted me about one of his bus buddy got in, who is taking algebra I in 8th and with with GPA barely enough to qualify. Owns SF home in the same community as ours, so must not be disadvantaged. This is a center school, with majority AAP and most kids taking Geo HN in 8th with not so insignificant number taking even Algebra 2 as well. Now, my kid is absolutely certain that race is a factor, otherwise there is no way his bus buddy would have gotten in - his buddy himself shocked that he got in apparently. Can anyone explain this with out race being a factor? What the hell is going on??

Did his parents check yes to either of the meals questions?

Race has nothing to do with it!

I would like to think so, but my kid can’t explain at least two admissions with out factoring in race. He thinks only 1 of 5 admissions he is aware is apparently smart according to him and none of the other smart/standout kids that he knew didn’t get in. No idea what boxes anyone checked in, no one will reveal them and it’s up to anyone’s interpretation. I wish fcps makes every admission, gpa and selection criteria public.

I hope race wasn’t a factor, but with kids (mine and others) assuming/discussing it absolutely is, I am afraid kids start developing unnecessary resentment and affected psychologically. This is all my kid and his friends were talking/discussing since Friday, who got in and how they could have got in. It really sucks kids discussing these things and I really hope they get over it.

They would be discussing it under any admissions system. If they are focused on the race element, it is your job to discuss that with them and explain why that is problematic. They don't know what the admissions folks graded each application on. Just because they think they know who is smart or who is not doesn't mean that they, or you, know who is "smart" and who isn't. Kids can discuss grades all they want but you don't really know what their tests scores look like.

And you don't know what they put in their essays. I have graded AP exams and I can promise you that there are a good number of kids, I would guesstimate 20%, would write nothing or write about their prom plans or write about why they didn't want to take these exams. For all you know, kids wrote nothing or wrote about nothing related to the subject. They could be putting up a front that this is important to them because it is important to their friends or their parents.

Essentially, you don't know why people were selected or not selected. What you assume you know could very well be wrong.

The focus for the parents of kids who did not get into TJ should be on discussing the opportunities that they have at their base school and what type of extra curriculars they can do to fill in areas of interest. It is normal to be disappointed and clearly it is ok to be upset but allowing people to use the low hanging fruit as their explanation when, to be frank, we have no clue.

In other words, place blind faith in the new system when we all know it was intended to achieve more diversity rather than select the best qualified candidates. If you just admitted that then you wouldn’t be fostering such cynicism among kids who know they are being turned down because they don’t have the right “experience factors.”

[Anonymous]

After FCPS destroy TJ, they’ll probably begin to destroy another good school. It’s easy to do so by redrawing the school boundary. I doubt the necessity for the existence of FCPS if all they can do is to make things worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system has no way to measure STEM achievement or interest. It prioritized diversity of geography, disadvantaged students, special ed and English language learners. It does not distinguish between center middle schools and base middle schools thereby making it harder for kids who chose to accept aap center placement and the most rigorous curriculum to get into TJ.

There isn’t anything wrong if we allocate a portion of seats to economically disadvantaged, provided its properly identified. However, I have always been critical about how the new process discriminated against center schools.

What I really want is to correctly identify the stem intersect/talent with whatever selection process there is. It should ‘never’ be case where you (especially kids themselves) cannot explain why some got in while others who appears to be more deserving couldn’t. My kid is damn sure that he would have gotten in if his teachers had any input.

On the whole, I would say my kid is probably more surprised than disappointed by the wait list. He says there are quite a few in the similar situation as his and would have plenty of company at his base school. He just asked me if TJ exclusive course work is more important than college admissions. I said absolutely not and not even by a long shot. He seems to be happy with it and moved on with his stuff.

Last year I was a little skeptical about the efficiency of TJ admissions, but now that I have had first hand experience with my kid and his friends (I have accompanied/interacted with them to several events) , I am sure the new process is screwed up. If you haven’t already gotten it by now, I am sure it will be abundantly clear in 4 years when we learn where TJ stacks up among other schools. All I hope is this is what we really want with TJ. That’s all I have to say! Please feel to disagree and bold any sentence in my post and offer your valuable criticism.

haha. This is what my kid said about two kids (no other experience factors) who received offers from a feeder school - X got in because of race and Y must have lied about being poor otherwise there is no way X or Y could get the offer while there are many others with better grades and clearly smarter got wait listed. When I said race isn't factor my kid said it must be a lottery then as there is no other explanation.

I am sure kids who received offers are definitely above average, but its not like it used to be where we used to know well ahead that who might get into TJ and who might not. It used to be that we were rarely surprised with the kids who got into TJ though there were a very few missed out. Now, kids have no clue and its really really sad. It's like when you get a promotion and everyone thinks you must have offered personal favors. We all know promotions should always be a formality and not a surprise to anyone.

My kid just texted me about one of his bus buddy got in, who is taking algebra I in 8th and with with GPA barely enough to qualify. Owns SF home in the same community as ours, so must not be disadvantaged. This is a center school, with majority AAP and most kids taking Geo HN in 8th with not so insignificant number taking even Algebra 2 as well. Now, my kid is absolutely certain that race is a factor, otherwise there is no way his bus buddy would have gotten in - his buddy himself shocked that he got in apparently. Can anyone explain this with out race being a factor? What the hell is going on??

Did his parents check yes to either of the meals questions?

Race has nothing to do with it!

I would like to think so, but my kid can’t explain at least two admissions with out factoring in race. He thinks only 1 of 5 admissions he is aware is apparently smart according to him and none of the other smart/standout kids that he knew didn’t get in. No idea what boxes anyone checked in, no one will reveal them and it’s up to anyone’s interpretation. I wish fcps makes every admission, gpa and selection criteria public.

I hope race wasn’t a factor, but with kids (mine and others) assuming/discussing it absolutely is, I am afraid kids start developing unnecessary resentment and affected psychologically. This is all my kid and his friends were talking/discussing since Friday, who got in and how they could have got in. It really sucks kids discussing these things and I really hope they get over it.

Good for the kids to see through the nonsense. Most will be happier at their base schools anyway.

Haha true. My kid is very disappointed, but I basically told him the same i.e., he is better off at base school as all the core courses will be same, less stress and could even be better for college admissions. Whatever TJ exclusive course work or electives aren't as important as he would think in the long run and can be easily learnt on his own or find other ways to lean provided he has interest. He worries that there is going to a lot more competition for STEM after school programs at base school now as there are quite a few TJ rejects who are very much into STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You are missing something here. There are no test scores here. Just grades, essay and portrait sheet. All these kids know each others grades and unweighted GPA etc. Yes, they don't know how anyone's essays are graded. All they could know who would have gotten in if the grades were important and teacher input was actually sought. Of course the first thing I told is grades weren't really important as its only 1/3rd of total weight and rest of the 2/3rd weight goes to essays and may be those kids would have written amazingly well. His said was their english grades weren't better well, grades may not translate to essays. His argument was kids with perfect GPA, participating in lots of STEM activities at school, taking STEM exclusive electives didn't get in where kids with barely enough GPA, definitely not poor, no participation in STEM activities, no STEM electives etc were able to get in. So, we had this argument and it was difficult for me to convince him that race wasn't factor. So, his final take was if it weren't a race, it must be a lottery as he sees no other explanation unless the essays were stellar to overcome the GPA deficit.

If you have kids, you know pretty well teenage kids think they know better and are easily influenced by their friends. They don't pay that much attention to our/parents explanations, though we constantly try. Thats what bothered me when he is talking about race which he never did until now. I hope FCPS comes clear out of this and if not, kids will assume whatever they want to assume.

End of the day, TJ is definitely not going to what it used to be. Its no longer a destination for top STEM focussed students. So many kids with genuine interest in STEM couldn't get in and kids who had barely anything to show for including GPA got in. At least base schools are going to be better and I am sure my kid will do fine at base school after overcoming his disappointment and all the surprises about who got in and who didn't.

Where did you see 1/3 grade and 2/3 essays? I thought the selection criteria was a "black box" (proprietary) and not published

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are missing something here. There are no test scores here. Just grades, essay and portrait sheet. All these kids know each others grades and unweighted GPA etc. Yes, they don't know how anyone's essays are graded. All they could know who would have gotten in if the grades were important and teacher input was actually sought. Of course the first thing I told is grades weren't really important as its only 1/3rd of total weight and rest of the 2/3rd weight goes to essays and may be those kids would have written amazingly well. His said was their english grades weren't better well, grades may not translate to essays. His argument was kids with perfect GPA, participating in lots of STEM activities at school, taking STEM exclusive electives didn't get in where kids with barely enough GPA, definitely not poor, no participation in STEM activities, no STEM electives etc were able to get in. So, we had this argument and it was difficult for me to convince him that race wasn't factor. So, his final take was if it weren't a race, it must be a lottery as he sees no other explanation unless the essays were stellar to overcome the GPA deficit.

If you have kids, you know pretty well teenage kids think they know better and are easily influenced by their friends. They don't pay that much attention to our/parents explanations, though we constantly try. Thats what bothered me when he is talking about race which he never did until now. I hope FCPS comes clear out of this and if not, kids will assume whatever they want to assume.

End of the day, TJ is definitely not going to what it used to be. Its no longer a destination for top STEM focussed students. So many kids with genuine interest in STEM couldn't get in and kids who had barely anything to show for including GPA got in. At least base schools are going to be better and I am sure my kid will do fine at base school after overcoming his disappointment and all the surprises about who got in and who didn't.

Where did you see 1/3 grade and 2/3 essays? I thought the selection criteria was a "black box" (proprietary) and not published

Its not as much of a black box as you think it is. There was a leaked internal document I found in these forums a while back. I think you find this at the web page where TJ coalition tried to sue FCPS - you/I may not like the coalition, but this document was real and came from FCPS internal discussions. Just google searched 'leaked TJ docs' and found the TJHSST Scoring Rubric’ (Exhibit B) under here https://defendinged.org/incidents/tjpapers/. You are free to dismiss and claim everything you found under the page is made up, but please note that these docs were submitted to the judge as well. This says 300 points for GPA, 300 points for essay, 300 points for portrait sheet and 300 points for other factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's also a shame for us, who are willing to send kids to a school with such a ridiculous admission process.

Btw did you know there is a TJ prep class even though that is what they were trying to get away from. Since the essay is so important, the kids I know that actually took it, got in (again every kid we know has a 4.0 with tons of extracurriculars). The others that got with similar or less than this without TJ prep had other identifiers (not white and not Asian).

Prep is still important for TJ admissions. The kids that were prepared for the essays and had them ready to go did well.

Will they write them for you too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's also a shame for us, who are willing to send kids to a school with such a ridiculous admission process.

Btw did you know there is a TJ prep class even though that is what they were trying to get away from. Since the essay is so important, the kids I know that actually took it, got in (again every kid we know has a 4.0 with tons of extracurriculars). The others that got with similar or less than this without TJ prep had other identifiers (not white and not Asian).

Prep is still important for TJ admissions. The kids that were prepared for the essays and had them ready to go did well.

Will they write them for you too?

You don't need to be sarcastic. If the writing is what ultimately decides the TJ admissions, you won't be surprised to find extensive prepping, private 1-on-1 tutoring, special writing coaches etc in the future. They can prep kids for wide range of topics including how to write/structure essays really well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system has no way to measure STEM achievement or interest. It prioritized diversity of geography, disadvantaged students, special ed and English language learners. It does not distinguish between center middle schools and base middle schools thereby making it harder for kids who chose to accept aap center placement and the most rigorous curriculum to get into TJ.

There isn’t anything wrong if we allocate a portion of seats to economically disadvantaged, provided its properly identified. However, I have always been critical about how the new process discriminated against center schools.

What I really want is to correctly identify the stem intersect/talent with whatever selection process there is. It should ‘never’ be case where you (especially kids themselves) cannot explain why some got in while others who appears to be more deserving couldn’t. My kid is damn sure that he would have gotten in if his teachers had any input.

On the whole, I would say my kid is probably more surprised than disappointed by the wait list. He says there are quite a few in the similar situation as his and would have plenty of company at his base school. He just asked me if TJ exclusive course work is more important than college admissions. I said absolutely not and not even by a long shot. He seems to be happy with it and moved on with his stuff.

Last year I was a little skeptical about the efficiency of TJ admissions, but now that I have had first hand experience with my kid and his friends (I have accompanied/interacted with them to several events) , I am sure the new process is screwed up. If you haven’t already gotten it by now, I am sure it will be abundantly clear in 4 years when we learn where TJ stacks up among other schools. All I hope is this is what we really want with TJ. That’s all I have to say! Please feel to disagree and bold any sentence in my post and offer your valuable criticism.

haha. This is what my kid said about two kids (no other experience factors) who received offers from a feeder school - X got in because of race and Y must have lied about being poor otherwise there is no way X or Y could get the offer while there are many others with better grades and clearly smarter got wait listed. When I said race isn't factor my kid said it must be a lottery then as there is no other explanation.

I am sure kids who received offers are definitely above average, but its not like it used to be where we used to know well ahead that who might get into TJ and who might not. It used to be that we were rarely surprised with the kids who got into TJ though there were a very few missed out. Now, kids have no clue and its really really sad. It's like when you get a promotion and everyone thinks you must have offered personal favors. We all know promotions should always be a formality and not a surprise to anyone.

My kid just texted me about one of his bus buddy got in, who is taking algebra I in 8th and with with GPA barely enough to qualify. Owns SF home in the same community as ours, so must not be disadvantaged. This is a center school, with majority AAP and most kids taking Geo HN in 8th with not so insignificant number taking even Algebra 2 as well. Now, my kid is absolutely certain that race is a factor, otherwise there is no way his bus buddy would have gotten in - his buddy himself shocked that he got in apparently. Can anyone explain this with out race being a factor? What the hell is going on??

Did his parents check yes to either of the meals questions?

Race has nothing to do with it!

I would like to think so, but my kid can’t explain at least two admissions with out factoring in race. He thinks only 1 of 5 admissions he is aware is apparently smart according to him and none of the other smart/standout kids that he knew didn’t get in. No idea what boxes anyone checked in, no one will reveal them and it’s up to anyone’s interpretation. I wish fcps makes every admission, gpa and selection criteria public.

I hope race wasn’t a factor, but with kids (mine and others) assuming/discussing it absolutely is, I am afraid kids start developing unnecessary resentment and affected psychologically. This is all my kid and his friends were talking/discussing since Friday, who got in and how they could have got in. It really sucks kids discussing these things and I really hope they get over it.

They would be discussing it under any admissions system. If they are focused on the race element, it is your job to discuss that with them and explain why that is problematic. They don't know what the admissions folks graded each application on. Just because they think they know who is smart or who is not doesn't mean that they, or you, know who is "smart" and who isn't. Kids can discuss grades all they want but you don't really know what their tests scores look like.

And you don't know what they put in their essays. I have graded AP exams and I can promise you that there are a good number of kids, I would guesstimate 20%, would write nothing or write about their prom plans or write about why they didn't want to take these exams. For all you know, kids wrote nothing or wrote about nothing related to the subject. They could be putting up a front that this is important to them because it is important to their friends or their parents.

Essentially, you don't know why people were selected or not selected. What you assume you know could very well be wrong.

The focus for the parents of kids who did not get into TJ should be on discussing the opportunities that they have at their base school and what type of extra curriculars they can do to fill in areas of interest. It is normal to be disappointed and clearly it is ok to be upset but allowing people to use the low hanging fruit as their explanation when, to be frank, we have no clue.

In other words, place blind faith in the new system when we all know it was intended to achieve more diversity rather than select the best qualified candidates. If you just admitted that then you wouldn’t be fostering such cynicism among kids who know they are being turned down because they don’t have the right “experience factors.”

You placed blind faith in the last system as well. And you are going to do the same for college. Hell, you'll be doing the same thing for the rest of your life. The difference is that you all believed in those admission criteria because it is what you valued. Now they are using different criteria and you don't agree with those criteria.

Still, there were posts from parents who couldn't believe that their kid was not accepted when they got a high score on the Q test, had all sorts of EC, and won competitions but they were not accepted. The response then was that you had no idea what the kids wrote in their essays then. You don't know what the admissions team was looking for then. There were still upset parents then. Some parents were ok with the results because they believed that the criteria made sense and they knew that their kid hadn't participated in as many ECs or were not in Algebra II.

The School Board has determined that TJ should look like FCPS and is making sure that a percentage of kids attend from each MS. And they are looking for kids who enjoy STEM but have taken different paths to get there. Kids with LDs have fought a different type of battle to advance in school. They can be very resilient and understand perseverance in a way that a kid who has not had to struggle in school has. Don't under sell the abilities of those kids.

I had Teachers tell me I would never go to college because of my LDs, I earned a PhD. I came into my own academically in high school. I graduated in the top 10% of my class and took AP classes. I graduated from college with highest honors. You have no clue how well a kid with LDs or ADHD is going to do or what their level of resolve is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system has no way to measure STEM achievement or interest. It prioritized diversity of geography, disadvantaged students, special ed and English language learners. It does not distinguish between center middle schools and base middle schools thereby making it harder for kids who chose to accept aap center placement and the most rigorous curriculum to get into TJ.

There isn’t anything wrong if we allocate a portion of seats to economically disadvantaged, provided its properly identified. However, I have always been critical about how the new process discriminated against center schools.

What I really want is to correctly identify the stem intersect/talent with whatever selection process there is. It should ‘never’ be case where you (especially kids themselves) cannot explain why some got in while others who appears to be more deserving couldn’t. My kid is damn sure that he would have gotten in if his teachers had any input.

On the whole, I would say my kid is probably more surprised than disappointed by the wait list. He says there are quite a few in the similar situation as his and would have plenty of company at his base school. He just asked me if TJ exclusive course work is more important than college admissions. I said absolutely not and not even by a long shot. He seems to be happy with it and moved on with his stuff.

Last year I was a little skeptical about the efficiency of TJ admissions, but now that I have had first hand experience with my kid and his friends (I have accompanied/interacted with them to several events) , I am sure the new process is screwed up. If you haven’t already gotten it by now, I am sure it will be abundantly clear in 4 years when we learn where TJ stacks up among other schools. All I hope is this is what we really want with TJ. That’s all I have to say! Please feel to disagree and bold any sentence in my post and offer your valuable criticism.

haha. This is what my kid said about two kids (no other experience factors) who received offers from a feeder school - X got in because of race and Y must have lied about being poor otherwise there is no way X or Y could get the offer while there are many others with better grades and clearly smarter got wait listed. When I said race isn't factor my kid said it must be a lottery then as there is no other explanation.

I am sure kids who received offers are definitely above average, but its not like it used to be where we used to know well ahead that who might get into TJ and who might not. It used to be that we were rarely surprised with the kids who got into TJ though there were a very few missed out. Now, kids have no clue and its really really sad. It's like when you get a promotion and everyone thinks you must have offered personal favors. We all know promotions should always be a formality and not a surprise to anyone.

My kid just texted me about one of his bus buddy got in, who is taking algebra I in 8th and with with GPA barely enough to qualify. Owns SF home in the same community as ours, so must not be disadvantaged. This is a center school, with majority AAP and most kids taking Geo HN in 8th with not so insignificant number taking even Algebra 2 as well. Now, my kid is absolutely certain that race is a factor, otherwise there is no way his bus buddy would have gotten in - his buddy himself shocked that he got in apparently. Can anyone explain this with out race being a factor? What the hell is going on??

Did his parents check yes to either of the meals questions?

Race has nothing to do with it!

I would like to think so, but my kid can’t explain at least two admissions with out factoring in race. He thinks only 1 of 5 admissions he is aware is apparently smart according to him and none of the other smart/standout kids that he knew didn’t get in. No idea what boxes anyone checked in, no one will reveal them and it’s up to anyone’s interpretation. I wish fcps makes every admission, gpa and selection criteria public.

I hope race wasn’t a factor, but with kids (mine and others) assuming/discussing it absolutely is, I am afraid kids start developing unnecessary resentment and affected psychologically. This is all my kid and his friends were talking/discussing since Friday, who got in and how they could have got in. It really sucks kids discussing these things and I really hope they get over it.

They would be discussing it under any admissions system. If they are focused on the race element, it is your job to discuss that with them and explain why that is problematic. They don't know what the admissions folks graded each application on. Just because they think they know who is smart or who is not doesn't mean that they, or you, know who is "smart" and who isn't. Kids can discuss grades all they want but you don't really know what their tests scores look like.

And you don't know what they put in their essays. I have graded AP exams and I can promise you that there are a good number of kids, I would guesstimate 20%, would write nothing or write about their prom plans or write about why they didn't want to take these exams. For all you know, kids wrote nothing or wrote about nothing related to the subject. They could be putting up a front that this is important to them because it is important to their friends or their parents.

Essentially, you don't know why people were selected or not selected. What you assume you know could very well be wrong.

The focus for the parents of kids who did not get into TJ should be on discussing the opportunities that they have at their base school and what type of extra curriculars they can do to fill in areas of interest. It is normal to be disappointed and clearly it is ok to be upset but allowing people to use the low hanging fruit as their explanation when, to be frank, we have no clue.

In other words, place blind faith in the new system when we all know it was intended to achieve more diversity rather than select the best qualified candidates. If you just admitted that then you wouldn’t be fostering such cynicism among kids who know they are being turned down because they don’t have the right “experience factors.”

You placed blind faith in the last system as well. And you are going to do the same for college. Hell, you'll be doing the same thing for the rest of your life. The difference is that you all believed in those admission criteria because it is what you valued. Now they are using different criteria and you don't agree with those criteria.

Still, there were posts from parents who couldn't believe that their kid was not accepted when they got a high score on the Q test, had all sorts of EC, and won competitions but they were not accepted. The response then was that you had no idea what the kids wrote in their essays then. You don't know what the admissions team was looking for then. There were still upset parents then. Some parents were ok with the results because they believed that the criteria made sense and they knew that their kid hadn't participated in as many ECs or were not in Algebra II.

The School Board has determined that TJ should look like FCPS and is making sure that a percentage of kids attend from each MS. And they are looking for kids who enjoy STEM but have taken different paths to get there. Kids with LDs have fought a different type of battle to advance in school. They can be very resilient and understand perseverance in a way that a kid who has not had to struggle in school has. Don't under sell the abilities of those kids.

I had Teachers tell me I would never go to college because of my LDs, I earned a PhD. I came into my own academically in high school. I graduated in the top 10% of my class and took AP classes. I graduated from college with highest honors. You have no clue how well a kid with LDs or ADHD is going to do or what their level of resolve is.

NP. I think the essays should have included a math question but I have a bigger issue with the purposely vague free meal questions.