Confused—wealthy white women want supply of non-white babies?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I understand the idea of having a cheap, plentiful labor force. But some are saying it’s ACB and her People of Praise or whatever that want a supply of babies for adoption is part of rationale for banning IUDs and condoms. I thought affluent infertile women just went to fertility clinics. Maybe it’s just some randos on Twitter spouting off but they are citing historic examples of white women taking indigenous and black babies. Why would they do that?

Look, I don't know anyone who is against abortion so that their friends can adopt babies. That's just not the logic. There are many couples out there who want to adopt, but that's a side benefit, not the reason for being against abortion. I can only speak about my immediate circle of friends, which is largely Catholic, but I personally know about eleven middle class and upper middle class families who have adopted children. Some of these children have been older, harder to place children (through their teenage years) and some have been babies. Very few of the adopted children have been white. Some of the babies have been exposed in utero to various substances and the parents knew this before adopting. A few of my Catholic adoptive mom friends have Ivy degrees, btw.

OP here. I’m Catholic too. My daughter goes to an extremely conservative Catholic school. The majority of them have very large families. They pray Novenas, pray 24/7 outside the “local abortion mill” for one month of the year, take the yearly trip to the pro-Life rally in DC and routinely refer to abortion as murder in school assemblies, even with the lower grades present. And they are staunchly against birth control. We went to weekly mass at the church affiliated with the school for a full year so our daughter could attend their formation program.

They are right in the demographic to celebrate the Supreme Court overturning Roe but only ONE of those families has adopted a bunch of kids and they were from Ethiopia and Ukraine.

So back to my original question, who are all the people who are looking for large amounts fresh American babies to adopt? I don’t see them. I think PP who said conservatives want to create a felon class for cheap labor that can’t vote is probably right. I just don’t know where this baby stealing stuff is coming from.

Many people gave up on adoption when it became harder to adopt healthy white babies without the potential interference of the birth mother in the kid’s life. Less people would feel compelled to commit the grievous sin of IVF if they could go down to a mother baby home and leave that day with a healthy white infant. The tens of thousands of dollars that are currently going to the IVF doctors would instead go to the Catholic Church and other religious entities facilitating the “adoptions”. The ever grateful parents would raise their kids in the church. The 1950s-1970s were the glory days of the Catholic Church in America, and no doubt what they are trying to bring back now that their own attendance is in the toilet and many people feel they lost any moral credibility long ago.

Roberts bought two children from Ireland himself. Who knows what their mothers were subjected to.

That is a disgusting thing for you to say. I don't care what your issues are with the Catholic church (and you can't seem to give it a rest) or Roberts, but keep his children out of it.

Ireland doesn't allow international adoptions. So how did two corporate lawyers get two Irish babies?

Square that peg.

They used the law to make it happen. How interesting.

English - do you speak it? It was and is illegal to adopt Irish babies.

Tell me how you arrived at this declaration.

Ireland does not permit adoption of Irish children out of the country, because of how Irish children were trafficked (largely to the US) for decades. Domestic adoption in Ireland is very limited with fewer than 100 kids being adopted per year. It has been illegal to adopt "out" since 1998. Somehow, the Roberts' were able to adopt two children from two separate birth mothers in 2000. It is a valid question as to how he was able to procure children from Ireland after the ban.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I understand the idea of having a cheap, plentiful labor force. But some are saying it’s ACB and her People of Praise or whatever that want a supply of babies for adoption is part of rationale for banning IUDs and condoms. I thought affluent infertile women just went to fertility clinics. Maybe it’s just some randos on Twitter spouting off but they are citing historic examples of white women taking indigenous and black babies. Why would they do that?

Look, I don't know anyone who is against abortion so that their friends can adopt babies. That's just not the logic. There are many couples out there who want to adopt, but that's a side benefit, not the reason for being against abortion. I can only speak about my immediate circle of friends, which is largely Catholic, but I personally know about eleven middle class and upper middle class families who have adopted children. Some of these children have been older, harder to place children (through their teenage years) and some have been babies. Very few of the adopted children have been white. Some of the babies have been exposed in utero to various substances and the parents knew this before adopting. A few of my Catholic adoptive mom friends have Ivy degrees, btw.

OP here. I’m Catholic too. My daughter goes to an extremely conservative Catholic school. The majority of them have very large families. They pray Novenas, pray 24/7 outside the “local abortion mill” for one month of the year, take the yearly trip to the pro-Life rally in DC and routinely refer to abortion as murder in school assemblies, even with the lower grades present. And they are staunchly against birth control. We went to weekly mass at the church affiliated with the school for a full year so our daughter could attend their formation program.

They are right in the demographic to celebrate the Supreme Court overturning Roe but only ONE of those families has adopted a bunch of kids and they were from Ethiopia and Ukraine.

So back to my original question, who are all the people who are looking for large amounts fresh American babies to adopt? I don’t see them. I think PP who said conservatives want to create a felon class for cheap labor that can’t vote is probably right. I just don’t know where this baby stealing stuff is coming from.

Many people gave up on adoption when it became harder to adopt healthy white babies without the potential interference of the birth mother in the kid’s life. Less people would feel compelled to commit the grievous sin of IVF if they could go down to a mother baby home and leave that day with a healthy white infant. The tens of thousands of dollars that are currently going to the IVF doctors would instead go to the Catholic Church and other religious entities facilitating the “adoptions”. The ever grateful parents would raise their kids in the church. The 1950s-1970s were the glory days of the Catholic Church in America, and no doubt what they are trying to bring back now that their own attendance is in the toilet and many people feel they lost any moral credibility long ago.

Roberts bought two children from Ireland himself. Who knows what their mothers were subjected to.

That is a disgusting thing for you to say. I don't care what your issues are with the Catholic church (and you can't seem to give it a rest) or Roberts, but keep his children out of it.

Ireland doesn't allow international adoptions. So how did two corporate lawyers get two Irish babies?

Square that peg.

They used the law to make it happen. How interesting.

English - do you speak it? It was and is illegal to adopt Irish babies.

Tell me how you arrived at this declaration.

Ireland does not permit adoption of Irish children out of the country, because of how Irish children were trafficked (largely to the US) for decades. Domestic adoption in Ireland is very limited with fewer than 100 kids being adopted per year. It has been illegal to adopt "out" since 1998. Somehow, the Roberts' were able to adopt two children from two separate birth mothers in 2000. It is a valid question as to how he was able to procure children from Ireland after the ban.

Pretty powerful blackmail material to have over the Chief Justice of the United States.

It’s almost as if they are compromised on purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I understand the idea of having a cheap, plentiful labor force. But some are saying it’s ACB and her People of Praise or whatever that want a supply of babies for adoption is part of rationale for banning IUDs and condoms. I thought affluent infertile women just went to fertility clinics. Maybe it’s just some randos on Twitter spouting off but they are citing historic examples of white women taking indigenous and black babies. Why would they do that?

Look, I don't know anyone who is against abortion so that their friends can adopt babies. That's just not the logic. There are many couples out there who want to adopt, but that's a side benefit, not the reason for being against abortion. I can only speak about my immediate circle of friends, which is largely Catholic, but I personally know about eleven middle class and upper middle class families who have adopted children. Some of these children have been older, harder to place children (through their teenage years) and some have been babies. Very few of the adopted children have been white. Some of the babies have been exposed in utero to various substances and the parents knew this before adopting. A few of my Catholic adoptive mom friends have Ivy degrees, btw.

OP here. I’m Catholic too. My daughter goes to an extremely conservative Catholic school. The majority of them have very large families. They pray Novenas, pray 24/7 outside the “local abortion mill” for one month of the year, take the yearly trip to the pro-Life rally in DC and routinely refer to abortion as murder in school assemblies, even with the lower grades present. And they are staunchly against birth control. We went to weekly mass at the church affiliated with the school for a full year so our daughter could attend their formation program.

They are right in the demographic to celebrate the Supreme Court overturning Roe but only ONE of those families has adopted a bunch of kids and they were from Ethiopia and Ukraine.

So back to my original question, who are all the people who are looking for large amounts fresh American babies to adopt? I don’t see them. I think PP who said conservatives want to create a felon class for cheap labor that can’t vote is probably right. I just don’t know where this baby stealing stuff is coming from.

Many people gave up on adoption when it became harder to adopt healthy white babies without the potential interference of the birth mother in the kid’s life. Less people would feel compelled to commit the grievous sin of IVF if they could go down to a mother baby home and leave that day with a healthy white infant. The tens of thousands of dollars that are currently going to the IVF doctors would instead go to the Catholic Church and other religious entities facilitating the “adoptions”. The ever grateful parents would raise their kids in the church. The 1950s-1970s were the glory days of the Catholic Church in America, and no doubt what they are trying to bring back now that their own attendance is in the toilet and many people feel they lost any moral credibility long ago.

Roberts bought two children from Ireland himself. Who knows what their mothers were subjected to.

That is a disgusting thing for you to say. I don't care what your issues are with the Catholic church (and you can't seem to give it a rest) or Roberts, but keep his children out of it.

Ireland doesn't allow international adoptions. So how did two corporate lawyers get two Irish babies?

Square that peg.

They used the law to make it happen. How interesting.

English - do you speak it? It was and is illegal to adopt Irish babies.

Tell me how you arrived at this declaration.

Ireland does not permit adoption of Irish children out of the country, because of how Irish children were trafficked (largely to the US) for decades. Domestic adoption in Ireland is very limited with fewer than 100 kids being adopted per year. It has been illegal to adopt "out" since 1998. Somehow, the Roberts' were able to adopt two children from two separate birth mothers in 2000. It is a valid question as to how he was able to procure children from Ireland after the ban.

Pretty powerful blackmail material to have over the Chief Justice of the United States.

It’s almost as if they are compromised on purpose.

It was definitely some shady business. But…as we all know, the law applies to you, not me.

[Anonymous]

His wife is presumably an Irish citizen by birth to a woman who was an Irish citizen. They also maintain a home in Ireland. Not sure how they finagles it, but I'm sure those two factors figured in somehow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His wife is presumably an Irish citizen by birth to a woman who was an Irish citizen. They also maintain a home in Ireland. Not sure how they finagles it, but I'm sure those two factors figured in somehow.

No, she was born here in the states. She’s American. https://www.bu.edu/washington/2005/12/15/chief-justices-wife-talks-about-life-since-holy-cross/ Her mother was born in Ireland and she ”maintain a home” there, but just because she summers in Ireland doesn’t mean she can adopt babies from there any more legally than your or I can.

Interesting potential blackmail indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His wife is presumably an Irish citizen by birth to a woman who was an Irish citizen. They also maintain a home in Ireland. Not sure how they finagles it, but I'm sure those two factors figured in somehow.

No, she was born here in the states. She’s American. https://www.bu.edu/washington/2005/12/15/chief-justices-wife-talks-about-life-since-holy-cross/ Her mother was born in Ireland and she ”maintain a home” there, but just because she summers in Ireland doesn’t mean she can adopt babies from there any more legally than your or I can.

Interesting potential blackmail indeed.

Why don't you start with understanding how Irish citizenship is determined. She absolutely qualifies, as far as Ireland is concerned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His wife is presumably an Irish citizen by birth to a woman who was an Irish citizen. They also maintain a home in Ireland. Not sure how they finagles it, but I'm sure those two factors figured in somehow.

No, she was born here in the states. She’s American. https://www.bu.edu/washington/2005/12/15/chief-justices-wife-talks-about-life-since-holy-cross/ Her mother was born in Ireland and she ”maintain a home” there, but just because she summers in Ireland doesn’t mean she can adopt babies from there any more legally than your or I can.

Interesting potential blackmail indeed.

Why don't you start with understanding how Irish citizenship is determined. She absolutely qualifies, as far as Ireland is concerned.

Qualifies is irrelevant if she is not an Irish citizen. And I’m assuming her mother isn’t the actual guardian on the adoption papers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that adoption even comes up in this discussion about abortion just shows you how off the rails these people are. Why should my bodily autonomy depend on the supply you have of a commodity??

As an adoptive mother, I 100% agree. I adore my child but the absolute real long term impacts faced by the birth mother, my child and others in the adoption triangle is real. To think that a bunch of white old men who have probably never been in the same room with someone who has been adopted are even bringing this up, is disgraceful. Not to mention the costs - if they are serious about this, start offering 100% tax credits for all adoptions. Give me my 40k in adoption lawyer fees back and years of therapy for everyone because my son's birth mother did not choose abortion.

+1. My mom grew up in a very Catholic family. Her sister was killed by a drunk driver at age 5 and was “replaced” by a white Catholic infant (1960s). Hint one this will end badly. She was 13 years younger than my mom, so I was about 6 when she got pregnant a age 16. On purpose. Because she wanted to marry her boyfriend and get out of her parents house. She had 3 more kids before age 23 and got divorced

My mother: how can you support abortion? Would you have wanted your aunt to be aborted? Honestly, IDK. She had a pretty crappy life, despite the UMC adoption. I also have never really known her. My mother’s “charity” was taking her groceries once a month and sometime I went. But she had no other contact with her adoptive family. So, I don’t know her. I gather that her kids are further the cycle of generational poverty.

Also my mother: if you have sex, god will punish you by making you pregnant and ruining your life, just like your aunt. (My smart as teenage self: he can’t punish me without dragging an innocent child into the mix?)

My grandfather and his and my grandmother’s 50th wedding celebration: it makes me so happy that all of my blood relatives are here. Because if I’ve learned anything in life, blood relatives are the only real relatives. He and my grandmother left the entirety of their sizable estate to my mother, rather than at least, say, helping my cousins get an education.

So yeah: even with a domestic supply of white infants for UMC parents, not all adoptions are sunshine and roses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I understand the idea of having a cheap, plentiful labor force. But some are saying it’s ACB and her People of Praise or whatever that want a supply of babies for adoption is part of rationale for banning IUDs and condoms. I thought affluent infertile women just went to fertility clinics. Maybe it’s just some randos on Twitter spouting off but they are citing historic examples of white women taking indigenous and black babies. Why would they do that?

Look, I don't know anyone who is against abortion so that their friends can adopt babies. That's just not the logic. There are many couples out there who want to adopt, but that's a side benefit, not the reason for being against abortion. I can only speak about my immediate circle of friends, which is largely Catholic, but I personally know about eleven middle class and upper middle class families who have adopted children. Some of these children have been older, harder to place children (through their teenage years) and some have been babies. Very few of the adopted children have been white. Some of the babies have been exposed in utero to various substances and the parents knew this before adopting. A few of my Catholic adoptive mom friends have Ivy degrees, btw.

OP here. I’m Catholic too. My daughter goes to an extremely conservative Catholic school. The majority of them have very large families. They pray Novenas, pray 24/7 outside the “local abortion mill” for one month of the year, take the yearly trip to the pro-Life rally in DC and routinely refer to abortion as murder in school assemblies, even with the lower grades present. And they are staunchly against birth control. We went to weekly mass at the church affiliated with the school for a full year so our daughter could attend their formation program.

They are right in the demographic to celebrate the Supreme Court overturning Roe but only ONE of those families has adopted a bunch of kids and they were from Ethiopia and Ukraine.

So back to my original question, who are all the people who are looking for large amounts fresh American babies to adopt? I don’t see them. I think PP who said conservatives want to create a felon class for cheap labor that can’t vote is probably right. I just don’t know where this baby stealing stuff is coming from.

You are seeing families who have children, not people without children. So of course there are no adopted children. Or maybe you just don't know the kids who were adopted. Very conservative Catholics are not likely to cross racial lines either. Join an adoption group and find out how difficult it is to adopt a child who looks like you (assuming white).

What is your basis for saying this? Im from a very conservative Catholic family that adopted across racial lines. ACB on the SCOTUS is a very conservative Catholic that adopted across racial lines. I dont think you have any basis apart from prejudice.

Where did she say all? I don't see it.

She said: "Very conservative Catholics are not likely to cross racial lines either."

Read the bigoted paragraph she wrote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in international adoption many years ago. There was an unspoken recognition that white Americans would rather adopt white or Chinese ("white adjacent") babies from overseas, with all of the hassle and expense that involves, than adopt U.S.-born Black children.

DH and I are just beginning to consider adopting (I’m pro choice, not one of these whackjobs who is hoping for an increased “domestic supply of infants”) and literally my only hesitancy in adopting a Black child would be that I would afraid that I would not do a good enough job connecting said child to his or her culture. It would be very important to me to not muck that up.

But you're confident that you won't f^ck up connecting an Asian or Eastern European child to their cultural heritage? Or just won't care as much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His wife is presumably an Irish citizen by birth to a woman who was an Irish citizen. They also maintain a home in Ireland. Not sure how they finagles it, but I'm sure those two factors figured in somehow.

No, she was born here in the states. She’s American. https://www.bu.edu/washington/2005/12/15/chief-justices-wife-talks-about-life-since-holy-cross/ Her mother was born in Ireland and she ”maintain a home” there, but just because she summers in Ireland doesn’t mean she can adopt babies from there any more legally than your or I can.

Interesting potential blackmail indeed.

Why don't you start with understanding how Irish citizenship is determined. She absolutely qualifies, as far as Ireland is concerned.

Ok now I know you don't know what you are talking about. Ireland considers Jane Sullivan an Irish citizen because her mother was an Irish born Irish citizen (even though she, Sullivan's mother, had emigrated to the US). Jane Sullivan (Mrs. Roberts) told The Irish Times, in an interview in 2005, that her children were adopted in the US. She doesn't seem like someone to lie, so I take that at face value. If they were approved to adopt, by Ireland, (Sullivan is a citizen & arguable "resident"), and the children entered the US on IH-4 visas, the adoptions would be finalized in the US, not in Ireland. As for it being a "private" adoption (birth parent consent to the adoption), and approved by Ireland as required, it differentiates the children from babies that were removed from their birth mothers by court order. So yeah, not trafficking.

[Anonymous]

Where are people getting the notion that Roberts kids are from Ireland? I had heard American adoption and assumed he was fast tracked at one of the pregnancy counseling services run by the Catholic Church. Eg some girl comes in and they tell her they have the most lovely family ready to adopt, wealthy, educated, loving. I’m sure the kids do have a great family. I bet my kids wish they were adopted by them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where are people getting the notion that Roberts kids are from Ireland? I had heard American adoption and assumed he was fast tracked at one of the pregnancy counseling services run by the Catholic Church. Eg some girl comes in and they tell her they have the most lovely family ready to adopt, wealthy, educated, loving. I’m sure the kids do have a great family. I bet my kids wish they were adopted by them!

They were both born in Ireland to separate mothers 4 months apart. That is all we know. The circumstances around their adoption remain private. I’m not sure how they managed to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where are people getting the notion that Roberts kids are from Ireland? I had heard American adoption and assumed he was fast tracked at one of the pregnancy counseling services run by the Catholic Church. Eg some girl comes in and they tell her they have the most lovely family ready to adopt, wealthy, educated, loving. I’m sure the kids do have a great family. I bet my kids wish they were adopted by them!

Any child being adopted from a foreign country has to enter the US as an immigrant. Which requires federal approval. Which requires a visa. There are currently two general types. 1. The adoption was completed in the foreign country & the child becomes a US citizen upon arrival on US soil. 2. Transfer of guardianship to the approved adoptive parent, with the adoption finalized on US soil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in international adoption many years ago. There was an unspoken recognition that white Americans would rather adopt white or Chinese ("white adjacent") babies from overseas, with all of the hassle and expense that involves, than adopt U.S.-born Black children.

DH and I are just beginning to consider adopting (I’m pro choice, not one of these whackjobs who is hoping for an increased “domestic supply of infants”) and literally my only hesitancy in adopting a Black child would be that I would afraid that I would not do a good enough job connecting said child to his or her culture. It would be very important to me to not muck that up.

But you're confident that you won't f^ck up connecting an Asian or Eastern European child to their cultural heritage? Or just won't care as much?

DP: The poster didn't say who they were considering adopting otherwise. Also, there is a very salient history of and ongoing racism in the US for black children.