Anyone listen to this week's this American Life? It is terrifying what school closures has done

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to do shoulda coulda woulda on who opened schools and when, surely you also have to pull in the death rates, no?

DC has HALF the per capita death rate of Mississippi, Arizona, and Alabama.

I don't think anybody is arguing that virtual school is great. The choice was never "in person or virtual school, which is better." The choice was "virtual school or killing grandma, which is better."

Other countries chose to limit restaurants and bars, but keep the schools open. There were other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand this conversation about how we had to close schools because otherwise kids would get Covid and give it to vulnerable family members.

Perhaps you all can afford nannies/tutors/SAHPs so school closures mean your kids are not in group care? That’s not how it works for most families.

Our friends got Covid (as did their parents) because their kindergartener was in daycare (old daycare offered spots for older kids who needed it, and they both work so they needed it). Kid gave it to parents and grandparents. Fortunately everyone came through okay but school closures didn’t prevent anything in their case. They have to work. They need childcare. A full time nanny wasn’t an option.

We knew another family who did have a nanny, they still all got Covid (nanny caught it from her son who she lives with who got it from his in person job). Again, school closures didn’t help at all.

My kid was in group care through the entire 18 mo closure. We never got Covid, though there were a few outbreaks in my kid’s classes. Again, we work do we didn’t have a choice.

The thing I never understood was why it was okay for our daycare and camp teachers to risk possible exposure, but not teachers. Daycare providers generally make a lot less, plus they have really limited protection in terms of sick leave or other things.

We just shortchanged kids on school to protect one well-educated, higher paid group of people, by keeping kids with a lower-paid, less respected group of people. We didn’t prevent spread of Covid, we just shifted it to others.

Spot on.

The people who claim school closures “saved lives” are so incredibly privileged and ignorant. No, they did not. They just shifted the burdens to the most vulnerable populations.

[Anonymous]

What the democrats did closing schools was terrible and I'm basically an independent now because of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll be honest, I’m really pissed schools were closed for so long. It was done because unions refused to let their teachers return to school. Before anyone says I’m a Trumpie, I am not. I’m a lifelong Democrat! But that’s what happened and we can’t pretend otherwise. It made me change my opinion about teacher unions, for sure. I’m sorry for all the millions of kids who are behind in the US and no one cares. Affluent parents will just say “kids are resilient” - remember that line?

Also a dem here, glad my kid is back in school, but if I were a teacher, or my kids were (grown up) teachers, I'd want to support their choice not to go back into an unvaccinated environment.

My spouse is a teacher - so I talked the talk and walked the walk when I said schools should reopen. It was just terrible to not have them open for families that wanted an in person option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Folks who are angry now must have forgotten what it was like the first year of the pandemic. No one knew what the virus was capable of - what it would do to adults and kids alike. Hospitals were overwhelmed. Our leadership makes decisions based on the information available. It is unfortunate kids were out of school for so long, however, it’s now up to us to come together and help our kids and not expend unnecessary energy on the blame game. If it was your son/daughter who died because schools were open, you’d sing a different tune.

That's what you're hiding behind - but I was mad then and I'm mad now. I knew it was going to be horrendous socially and educationally all along. Anyone with one iota of common sense knew that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What the democrats did closing schools was terrible and I'm basically an independent now because of it.

Yup. My husband jokes the school debacle turned me -- the liberalist liberal who ever libbed -- Republican. That's not exactly true. But it's not exactly false either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks who are angry now must have forgotten what it was like the first year of the pandemic. No one knew what the virus was capable of - what it would do to adults and kids alike. Hospitals were overwhelmed. Our leadership makes decisions based on the information available. It is unfortunate kids were out of school for so long, however, it’s now up to us to come together and help our kids and not expend unnecessary energy on the blame game. If it was your son/daughter who died because schools were open, you’d sing a different tune.

That's what you're hiding behind - but I was mad then and I'm mad now. I knew it was going to be horrendous socially and educationally all along. Anyone with one iota of common sense knew that.

Yes and anyone with common sense could see they not only does covid mostly affect the elderly but there’s no way to really contain a highly contagious respiratory virus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What the democrats did closing schools was terrible and I'm basically an independent now because of it.

It made me switch to private permanently

[Anonymous]

OP, I finally had a chance to listen to the episode yesterday. It was sobering but unsurprising. The stories about the people they profiled were a drop in the bucket but oh man. There are going to be a lot of ripple effects.

The student Maricela (?) who is being promoted to high school despite missing most of middle school is incredibly sad.

I think back to the days of "we're all the same boat!" and it enrages me. We were never all in the same boat. Disadvantaged kids just got left further behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll be honest, I’m really pissed schools were closed for so long. It was done because unions refused to let their teachers return to school. Before anyone says I’m a Trumpie, I am not. I’m a lifelong Democrat! But that’s what happened and we can’t pretend otherwise. It made me change my opinion about teacher unions, for sure. I’m sorry for all the millions of kids who are behind in the US and no one cares. Affluent parents will just say “kids are resilient” - remember that line?

Also a dem here, glad my kid is back in school, but if I were a teacher, or my kids were (grown up) teachers, I'd want to support their choice not to go back into an unvaccinated environment.

My husband is a teacher and went back in August 2020 to a private school. Got vaccinated in January 2021 and he was fine. Even from an educator family, I will always loudly say that Democrats failed kids because we chose teachers.

Are you living under a rock? Do you not realize how much safer most private schools are? Smaller classes, the funds to upgrade their systems, weekly testing, socioeconomic groups that are more likely to be telecommuting, if you are multigenerational household, etc. It’s like comparing apples and oranges

And yet throughout the U.S., there were public schools operating as well beginning in August, and they didn’t have all those things.

+1

Read the article in the Washington Post in the school districts that went back in August 2020

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand this conversation about how we had to close schools because otherwise kids would get Covid and give it to vulnerable family members.

Perhaps you all can afford nannies/tutors/SAHPs so school closures mean your kids are not in group care? That’s not how it works for most families.

Our friends got Covid (as did their parents) because their kindergartener was in daycare (old daycare offered spots for older kids who needed it, and they both work so they needed it). Kid gave it to parents and grandparents. Fortunately everyone came through okay but school closures didn’t prevent anything in their case. They have to work. They need childcare. A full time nanny wasn’t an option.

We knew another family who did have a nanny, they still all got Covid (nanny caught it from her son who she lives with who got it from his in person job). Again, school closures didn’t help at all.

My kid was in group care through the entire 18 mo closure. We never got Covid, though there were a few outbreaks in my kid’s classes. Again, we work do we didn’t have a choice.

The thing I never understood was why it was okay for our daycare and camp teachers to risk possible exposure, but not teachers. Daycare providers generally make a lot less, plus they have really limited protection in terms of sick leave or other things.

We just shortchanged kids on school to protect one well-educated, higher paid group of people, by keeping kids with a lower-paid, less respected group of people. We didn’t prevent spread of Covid, we just shifted it to others.

+1000

They're also dealing with kids too young to wear masks and stay six feet apart. But I guess just too bad for all those parents? Glad adults could still go out to bars!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I finally had a chance to listen to the episode yesterday. It was sobering but unsurprising. The stories about the people they profiled were a drop in the bucket but oh man. There are going to be a lot of ripple effects.

The student Maricela (?) who is being promoted to high school despite missing most of middle school is incredibly sad.

I think back to the days of "we're all the same boat!" and it enrages me. We were never all in the same boat. Disadvantaged kids just got left further behind.

So true. My kid avoided a lot of school during virtual especially after I returned to working in person. He’s doing just fine now. Why? Because I’m a teacher who can help him scaffold his work and work with the school to address his needs. Additionally, he read a ton during the pandemic and we watched things like NOVA and Nature. He is not in the same boat as many kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand this conversation about how we had to close schools because otherwise kids would get Covid and give it to vulnerable family members.

Perhaps you all can afford nannies/tutors/SAHPs so school closures mean your kids are not in group care? That’s not how it works for most families.

Our friends got Covid (as did their parents) because their kindergartener was in daycare (old daycare offered spots for older kids who needed it, and they both work so they needed it). Kid gave it to parents and grandparents. Fortunately everyone came through okay but school closures didn’t prevent anything in their case. They have to work. They need childcare. A full time nanny wasn’t an option.

We knew another family who did have a nanny, they still all got Covid (nanny caught it from her son who she lives with who got it from his in person job). Again, school closures didn’t help at all.

My kid was in group care through the entire 18 mo closure. We never got Covid, though there were a few outbreaks in my kid’s classes. Again, we work do we didn’t have a choice.

The thing I never understood was why it was okay for our daycare and camp teachers to risk possible exposure, but not teachers. Daycare providers generally make a lot less, plus they have really limited protection in terms of sick leave or other things.

We just shortchanged kids on school to protect one well-educated, higher paid group of people, by keeping kids with a lower-paid, less respected group of people. We didn’t prevent spread of Covid, we just shifted it to others.

Spot on.

The people who claim school closures “saved lives” are so incredibly privileged and ignorant. No, they did not. They just shifted the burdens to the most vulnerable populations.

THIS!!! I was saying this the whole time. Our district closed schools and then opened up "learning centers" for students to go for childcare and chromebook class. Somehow it was ok for the district to pay "monitors" to watch kids at a low salary, but it would be attempted murder to send teachers in the classroom to teach in person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand this conversation about how we had to close schools because otherwise kids would get Covid and give it to vulnerable family members.

Perhaps you all can afford nannies/tutors/SAHPs so school closures mean your kids are not in group care? That’s not how it works for most families.

Our friends got Covid (as did their parents) because their kindergartener was in daycare (old daycare offered spots for older kids who needed it, and they both work so they needed it). Kid gave it to parents and grandparents. Fortunately everyone came through okay but school closures didn’t prevent anything in their case. They have to work. They need childcare. A full time nanny wasn’t an option.

We knew another family who did have a nanny, they still all got Covid (nanny caught it from her son who she lives with who got it from his in person job). Again, school closures didn’t help at all.

My kid was in group care through the entire 18 mo closure. We never got Covid, though there were a few outbreaks in my kid’s classes. Again, we work do we didn’t have a choice.

The thing I never understood was why it was okay for our daycare and camp teachers to risk possible exposure, but not teachers. Daycare providers generally make a lot less, plus they have really limited protection in terms of sick leave or other things.

We just shortchanged kids on school to protect one well-educated, higher paid group of people, by keeping kids with a lower-paid, less respected group of people. We didn’t prevent spread of Covid, we just shifted it to others.

Spot on.

The people who claim school closures “saved lives” are so incredibly privileged and ignorant. No, they did not. They just shifted the burdens to the most vulnerable populations.

THIS!!! I was saying this the whole time. Our district closed schools and then opened up "learning centers" for students to go for childcare and chromebook class. Somehow it was ok for the district to pay "monitors" to watch kids at a low salary, but it would be attempted murder to send teachers in the classroom to teach in person.

+1

It was transparently ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks who are angry now must have forgotten what it was like the first year of the pandemic. No one knew what the virus was capable of - what it would do to adults and kids alike. Hospitals were overwhelmed. Our leadership makes decisions based on the information available. It is unfortunate kids were out of school for so long, however, it’s now up to us to come together and help our kids and not expend unnecessary energy on the blame game. If it was your son/daughter who died because schools were open, you’d sing a different tune.

+1

Yeah, none of us forgot what it was like. We were living it, remember? Every time we dared to question when our kids could go back to school (because, you know - we knew very early on that there was minimal risk for kids) we were shouted out - BE BETTER PARENTS! THIS IS WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR! SCHOOL IS NOT DAYCARE! We saw our children's learning loss up close, and did our best to help, but - wow - have our own jobs, and aren't trained as teachers (which, last I heard, required college degrees).

But American society somehow deemed teachers in need of extra protection - more so, than the people working at grocery stores, gas stations, and restaurants? And this farce went on for long after the unions demanded priority access to vaccinations.

I am the daughter of a (non-union) public school teacher, and I will never forget how the teachers let down the children in this country. They had an opportunity to be heroes, and squandered it. They look like a bunch of spoiled, entitled babies.