News 4: Since when was it the school's responsibility to teach kids how to tie their shoes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. I know this school, although I don’t teach there. This is a school with a lot of students who are under-achieving and have family stressors. When a teacher takes the time to teach a kid to tie their shoes, they are working on fine-motor skills, and are helping the child develop independence and a sense of mastery. These things matter to a child’s educational progress. Having an adult take a few moments with a child individually is key to that child attaching to the adult and the school, and learning to trust. This can only be a positive thing. I’ve helped so many kids with shoelaces over the years, that I think it should be part of undergraduate teacher training.

I could hug you. Thank you.

mom of kid with developmental delays.

That’s sweet and all but totally unrealistic in today’s educational environment. Fight the politicians, fight the school board, fight whomever you like, but teachers no longer have time for this level of “attachment” with all that we must manage. It’s nothing like the old days - behavior expectations were totally different then. If a teacher called your parents to say uoh misbehaved, your parents actually cared and did something about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. I know this school, although I don’t teach there. This is a school with a lot of students who are under-achieving and have family stressors. When a teacher takes the time to teach a kid to tie their shoes, they are working on fine-motor skills, and are helping the child develop independence and a sense of mastery. These things matter to a child’s educational progress. Having an adult take a few moments with a child individually is key to that child attaching to the adult and the school, and learning to trust. This can only be a positive thing. I’ve helped so many kids with shoelaces over the years, that I think it should be part of undergraduate teacher training.

I could hug you. Thank you.

mom of kid with developmental delays.

That’s sweet and all but totally unrealistic in today’s educational environment. Fight the politicians, fight the school board, fight whomever you like, but teachers no longer have time for this level of “attachment” with all that we must manage. It’s nothing like the old days - behavior expectations were totally different then. If a teacher called your parents to say uoh misbehaved, your parents actually cared and did something about it.

BS. There were people who felt the same way back in 1960. Who is starting these moronic posts attacking parents. Hateful Henrietta needs to get a side job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. I know this school, although I don’t teach there. This is a school with a lot of students who are under-achieving and have family stressors. When a teacher takes the time to teach a kid to tie their shoes, they are working on fine-motor skills, and are helping the child develop independence and a sense of mastery. These things matter to a child’s educational progress. Having an adult take a few moments with a child individually is key to that child attaching to the adult and the school, and learning to trust. This can only be a positive thing. I’ve helped so many kids with shoelaces over the years, that I think it should be part of undergraduate teacher training.

I could hug you. Thank you.

mom of kid with developmental delays.

That’s sweet and all but totally unrealistic in today’s educational environment. Fight the politicians, fight the school board, fight whomever you like, but teachers no longer have time for this level of “attachment” with all that we must manage. It’s nothing like the old days - behavior expectations were totally different then. If a teacher called your parents to say uoh misbehaved, your parents actually cared and did something about it.

Well we drop kids off at kindergarten when they are 5!! Yes, they need some type of “ attachment”. Something is seriously lost when adults no longer realize that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it sounds silly when you pick a single example like this, but everyone working in ECE or 1st grade with kids who missed school last year knows this is a bit of an issue.

This is what “learning loss” looks like for kids who did virtual K or PK. Alongside literacy and some very basic math, most of what kids learn in ECE are basic life skills. Tying shoes, putting on and taking off clothes, cleaning, how to stand in line, how to wait your turn, how to choose between a menu of activities, sharing, experiencing disappointment, following a schedule, communicating clearly with adults, etc.

Yes, parents can and should teach their kids these things. But the process is slower and more uneven when kids learn them at home. School is like magic fir acquiring these skills, because school has major advantages over parents. They can utilize peer learning, since kids can watch each other. Seeing a child their own age perform a skill is much more useful to them than watching an adult do it. Kids are also often more open to learning these skill at school— at home they are more likely to resist or refuse, or lean on having a parent do things for them. ECE teachers have training and experience in overcoming those things, plus also tend to have a special kind of authority with the kids that is hard to replicate at home. ECE classrooms also often introduce skills and then let parents know so they can reinforce at home. It’s a collaborative approach and it works really well.

Kids who didn’t get that last year are at a distinct disadvantage, because these are skills schools build on as a child advances to another grade. If 90% of your class doesn’t have some of the basic skills they should have learned previously, you are going to have to take time that would be spent on literacy and other academics, and dedicate it to life skills. And 1st grade teachers have less experience teaching these things and may be less effective.

This is why “they’ll catch up, it’s not a big deal” was an irresponsible position last year, especially for ECE and early elementary. And anyone teaching these grades knows it. They do catch up, but some kids may slip through and there may be consequences to these delays.

Really? Teaching ONE child to tie his/her own shoes is slower than one teacher trying to teach 25 kids? Nope. Stop trying to pass the buck and teach your kid yourself. You taught them how to get dressed so finish the job!

You’re assuming they taught them how to get dressed and are not dong it for them at home. My kids pre-k and K teachers would often give me kudos for teaching my kids what I assumed where basic life skills that parents taught at home (tying your shoes, zipping/buttoning your jeans, coat, getting dressed on their own). I kept saying thank you but secretly thinking it was really odd until I ask someone at work and found out they were still laying their kids clothes out every night and making sure they got dressed correctly in the morning. After that I started looking more closely and understood just why the teachers were so surprised. I was FLOORED at the things most kids couldn’t do and that parents didn’t seem to be actively practicing and trying to get their gets to do on their own.

I volunteered in a K classroom and came home telling me husband that every K-2 teacher should get an immediate raise because they clearly do God’s work.

I did costume stuff for a middle school play (kids ages 11-14). The number of kids who had no idea how to properly hang a shirt on a hanger, or God forbid, hang PANTS on a hanger, was crazy. I literally had to teach them how to use a hanger the right way and put one side in each shoulder/sleeve of the shirt. They'd just throw everything on there however they could make it (temporarily) stay and it was a huge mess, things falling off, etc.

We also taught the kids on costume crew how to use a garment steamer to get wrinkles out. Which is 100% a life skill, if one that is a bit more advanced.

Meanwhile, I remember ironing my dad's shirts regularly at that age -- but TBH I'm not even sure my own kids have ironed a shirt. We get DH's stuff drycleaned. Heck, I hate ironing to this day because of having to do so much of it as a kid, and to the extent possible, avoid buying clothes that need to be ironed. But that does mean my own kids don't really have that skill.

[Anonymous]

OK but who are these parents buying lace-up shoes for their kids but then not teaching them how to tie?

Like, if you don't have time to teach the kid right now, fine... but maybe buy them velcro or slip-ons or one of the various other available attachment systems that they actually know how to operate?

I mean sure there's going to be a week or two (or more depending on the kid) where they're still mastering it, but they're making it sound like all these kids are showing up with lace-up shoes and not a clue as to how to tie them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it sounds silly when you pick a single example like this, but everyone working in ECE or 1st grade with kids who missed school last year knows this is a bit of an issue.

This is what “learning loss” looks like for kids who did virtual K or PK. Alongside literacy and some very basic math, most of what kids learn in ECE are basic life skills. Tying shoes, putting on and taking off clothes, cleaning, how to stand in line, how to wait your turn, how to choose between a menu of activities, sharing, experiencing disappointment, following a schedule, communicating clearly with adults, etc.

Yes, parents can and should teach their kids these things. But the process is slower and more uneven when kids learn them at home. School is like magic fir acquiring these skills, because school has major advantages over parents. They can utilize peer learning, since kids can watch each other. Seeing a child their own age perform a skill is much more useful to them than watching an adult do it. Kids are also often more open to learning these skill at school— at home they are more likely to resist or refuse, or lean on having a parent do things for them. ECE teachers have training and experience in overcoming those things, plus also tend to have a special kind of authority with the kids that is hard to replicate at home. ECE classrooms also often introduce skills and then let parents know so they can reinforce at home. It’s a collaborative approach and it works really well.

Kids who didn’t get that last year are at a distinct disadvantage, because these are skills schools build on as a child advances to another grade. If 90% of your class doesn’t have some of the basic skills they should have learned previously, you are going to have to take time that would be spent on literacy and other academics, and dedicate it to life skills. And 1st grade teachers have less experience teaching these things and may be less effective.

This is why “they’ll catch up, it’s not a big deal” was an irresponsible position last year, especially for ECE and early elementary. And anyone teaching these grades knows it. They do catch up, but some kids may slip through and there may be consequences to these delays.

Really? Teaching ONE child to tie his/her own shoes is slower than one teacher trying to teach 25 kids? Nope. Stop trying to pass the buck and teach your kid yourself. You taught them how to get dressed so finish the job!

You’re assuming they taught them how to get dressed and are not dong it for them at home. My kids pre-k and K teachers would often give me kudos for teaching my kids what I assumed where basic life skills that parents taught at home (tying your shoes, zipping/buttoning your jeans, coat, getting dressed on their own). I kept saying thank you but secretly thinking it was really odd until I ask someone at work and found out they were still laying their kids clothes out every night and making sure they got dressed correctly in the morning. After that I started looking more closely and understood just why the teachers were so surprised. I was FLOORED at the things most kids couldn’t do and that parents didn’t seem to be actively practicing and trying to get their gets to do on their own.

I volunteered in a K classroom and came home telling me husband that every K-2 teacher should get an immediate raise because they clearly do God’s work.

I did costume stuff for a middle school play (kids ages 11-14). The number of kids who had no idea how to properly hang a shirt on a hanger, or God forbid, hang PANTS on a hanger, was crazy. I literally had to teach them how to use a hanger the right way and put one side in each shoulder/sleeve of the shirt. They'd just throw everything on there however they could make it (temporarily) stay and it was a huge mess, things falling off, etc.

We also taught the kids on costume crew how to use a garment steamer to get wrinkles out. Which is 100% a life skill, if one that is a bit more advanced.

Meanwhile, I remember ironing my dad's shirts regularly at that age -- but TBH I'm not even sure my own kids have ironed a shirt. We get DH's stuff drycleaned. Heck, I hate ironing to this day because of having to do so much of it as a kid, and to the extent possible, avoid buying clothes that need to be ironed. But that does mean my own kids don't really have that skill.

Wow. We're all so impressed. I assume you want the obligatory cookie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it sounds silly when you pick a single example like this, but everyone working in ECE or 1st grade with kids who missed school last year knows this is a bit of an issue.

This is what “learning loss” looks like for kids who did virtual K or PK. Alongside literacy and some very basic math, most of what kids learn in ECE are basic life skills. Tying shoes, putting on and taking off clothes, cleaning, how to stand in line, how to wait your turn, how to choose between a menu of activities, sharing, experiencing disappointment, following a schedule, communicating clearly with adults, etc.

Yes, parents can and should teach their kids these things. But the process is slower and more uneven when kids learn them at home. School is like magic fir acquiring these skills, because school has major advantages over parents. They can utilize peer learning, since kids can watch each other. Seeing a child their own age perform a skill is much more useful to them than watching an adult do it. Kids are also often more open to learning these skill at school— at home they are more likely to resist or refuse, or lean on having a parent do things for them. ECE teachers have training and experience in overcoming those things, plus also tend to have a special kind of authority with the kids that is hard to replicate at home. ECE classrooms also often introduce skills and then let parents know so they can reinforce at home. It’s a collaborative approach and it works really well.

Kids who didn’t get that last year are at a distinct disadvantage, because these are skills schools build on as a child advances to another grade. If 90% of your class doesn’t have some of the basic skills they should have learned previously, you are going to have to take time that would be spent on literacy and other academics, and dedicate it to life skills. And 1st grade teachers have less experience teaching these things and may be less effective.

This is why “they’ll catch up, it’s not a big deal” was an irresponsible position last year, especially for ECE and early elementary. And anyone teaching these grades knows it. They do catch up, but some kids may slip through and there may be consequences to these delays.

Really? Teaching ONE child to tie his/her own shoes is slower than one teacher trying to teach 25 kids? Nope. Stop trying to pass the buck and teach your kid yourself. You taught them how to get dressed so finish the job!

You’re assuming they taught them how to get dressed and are not dong it for them at home. My kids pre-k and K teachers would often give me kudos for teaching my kids what I assumed where basic life skills that parents taught at home (tying your shoes, zipping/buttoning your jeans, coat, getting dressed on their own). I kept saying thank you but secretly thinking it was really odd until I ask someone at work and found out they were still laying their kids clothes out every night and making sure they got dressed correctly in the morning. After that I started looking more closely and understood just why the teachers were so surprised. I was FLOORED at the things most kids couldn’t do and that parents didn’t seem to be actively practicing and trying to get their gets to do on their own.

I volunteered in a K classroom and came home telling me husband that every K-2 teacher should get an immediate raise because they clearly do God’s work.

I did costume stuff for a middle school play (kids ages 11-14). The number of kids who had no idea how to properly hang a shirt on a hanger, or God forbid, hang PANTS on a hanger, was crazy. I literally had to teach them how to use a hanger the right way and put one side in each shoulder/sleeve of the shirt. They'd just throw everything on there however they could make it (temporarily) stay and it was a huge mess, things falling off, etc.

We also taught the kids on costume crew how to use a garment steamer to get wrinkles out. Which is 100% a life skill, if one that is a bit more advanced.

Meanwhile, I remember ironing my dad's shirts regularly at that age -- but TBH I'm not even sure my own kids have ironed a shirt. We get DH's stuff drycleaned. Heck, I hate ironing to this day because of having to do so much of it as a kid, and to the extent possible, avoid buying clothes that need to be ironed. But that does mean my own kids don't really have that skill.

Well, I’m not sure how much of a “life skill” that is anymore. Have you seen the adults around you? So few people even wear pants that require a hanger anymore, let alone an iron. Seeing people in actually a business clothes is a rarity now a days. Actually, seeing people out of leggings and sweats is a rarity.

These kids are going to grow up and be doing some work from home job in joggers. So don’t worry

[Anonymous]

1st graders don't need to know how to ties their shoes. They also don't need to know how to read- they are not getting a job any time soon, or go somewhere without a grown-up.
1st graders should be in a daycare setting where they pay from 8 to 6 pm and socialize.
There is not benefit pushing all this crap on young children. They will never be 5-7 again and get the pay time back that as taken from them to learn A,B,C's and now tying shoes.

[Anonymous]

Parents have the responsibility of teaching basic life skills. It’s called parenting.

Teachers can reinforce and reteach the skills but the children must’ve already had an exposure to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents have the responsibility of teaching basic life skills. It’s called parenting.

Teachers can reinforce and reteach the skills but the children must’ve already had an exposure to it.

+1. This also goes for turn-taking, not interrupting an adult, waiting patiently, taking no for an answer etc. Many children coming to public elementary school have clearly never been expected to do any of the above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents have the responsibility of teaching basic life skills. It’s called parenting.

Teachers can reinforce and reteach the skills but the children must’ve already had an exposure to it.

+1. This also goes for turn-taking, not interrupting an adult, waiting patiently, taking no for an answer etc. Many children coming to public elementary school have clearly never been expected to do any of the above.

These are all skills that are well-suited to be taught in a group setting. This is what school is for. It's what schools have done for generations. I don't understand teachers nowadays who say that it's not their job. Yes, it was and it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1st graders don't need to know how to ties their shoes. They also don't need to know how to read- they are not getting a job any time soon, or go somewhere without a grown-up.
1st graders should be in a daycare setting where they pay from 8 to 6 pm and socialize.
There is not benefit pushing all this crap on young children. They will never be 5-7 again and get the pay time back that as taken from them to learn A,B,C's and now tying shoes.

This is true. Parents have applied so much pressure in the mistaken belief that their kids will get ahead if they are pushed early. Studies show it all levels out for the kids by 3rd or 4th grade. There was a group who pushed the belief that the "plasticity" of the brain is lost at an early age and this led everyone to assume cramming kids with as much info as possible as young as possible was important or their brain capacity would be lost. It was all crap. Those of us with adult kids know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents have the responsibility of teaching basic life skills. It’s called parenting.

Teachers can reinforce and reteach the skills but the children must’ve already had an exposure to it.

+1. This also goes for turn-taking, not interrupting an adult, waiting patiently, taking no for an answer etc. Many children coming to public elementary school have clearly never been expected to do any of the above.

This post is just so dumbbbbb!

[Anonymous]

It’s because the parents are lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1st graders don't need to know how to ties their shoes. They also don't need to know how to read- they are not getting a job any time soon, or go somewhere without a grown-up.
1st graders should be in a daycare setting where they pay from 8 to 6 pm and socialize.
There is not benefit pushing all this crap on young children. They will never be 5-7 again and get the pay time back that as taken from them to learn A,B,C's and now tying shoes.

This is true. Parents have applied so much pressure in the mistaken belief that their kids will get ahead if they are pushed early. Studies show it all levels out for the kids by 3rd or 4th grade. There was a group who pushed the belief that the "plasticity" of the brain is lost at an early age and this led everyone to assume cramming kids with as much info as possible as young as possible was important or their brain capacity would be lost. It was all crap. Those of us with adult kids know this.

Developmental neuroplasticity is real.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developmental_plasticity