Do AP scores matter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges really want you to take AP classes if they're offered at your school and get good grades in them. And it certainly doesn't hurt if you also do really well on the AP exams themselves and let colleges know your scores.

The overwhelming majority of colleges will tell you, though, the scores themselves have little or no impact on college admissions. And how could they, anyway? Most students will have taken half or more of their AP classes in the senior year, and won't have scores on any of those exams until well after they've already been admitted to college.

No true. Colleges want you to take the highest level courses you're capable of being successful in (A or B grade usually), and would wonder why you're taking AP classes if you're getting a C or below a 3 on the exam. And in some high schools, the most advanced kids have already taken 5-10 AP classes by the end of 11th grade. Colleges will absolutely be interested in how well students do on those exams.

What's your source?

15 years of college counseling in a high school with many very high-achieving students.

Ok, great, so you can name specific colleges and what their policies were/are and give us real, helpful and concrete examples. Go for it. We're all ears.

Oh, and while you're at it, where are these high school where kids have 10 AP classes under their belt before their senior year? Can you rattle of a few? That would be great, too.

Thanks.

DP here. 10 AP courses under the belt is fairly common for students in my DC's magnet public school (Poolesville High School). I think it is also common for students in Blair, RMIB, Centennial and Riverside in MD. I am sure that these are not unheard of in W schools either. Students who are in IB schools, many a times, double up on both IB and AP.

Define "fairly common" in the non-magnet school context. Give specifics.

Poster after poster offering fluff as gospel.

I am sure there are some high achiever Asian-American students even in non-magnet schools. Fairly common amongst them. Specifically, if a student is also a NMS semifinalist, then probably between 5-10 AP exams before senior year.

What's with the specification of Asian-American students only? High achievers of all backgrounds take advantage of the opportunities presented to them.

I was wondering the same. So many assumptions there. Also, the assumption that students in magnets like Blair and RMIB would take more APs. Actually, they's likely take less. My Blair student was not allowed to take an APs as a freshman and takes a lot of magnet classes that are considered the equivalent of APs but have more depth on certain topics. She took AP BS as a Soph, so her math classes as a Jr and Sr are not AP but clearly rigorous. Because these programs offer there own rigorous courses, students may take fewer APs.

That must have been a while ago that a Blair student wasn't allowed to take AP as a freshman, or I'm not understanding something in their course descriptions online. All of their AP science and social studies courses say they're open to all grades, as does calculus. I didn't look at Computer Science and Music Theory, but I'll bet they are, too.

No, it's now. This is for Blair magnet. Not the school overall. An earlier poster suggested magnet students take more APs, but for the reasons, I stated above, including not beaing allowed to take them in 9th, the Blair magnet (magnet being the key word here) students would likely take less than a regular Blair or W school or whatever student.

Sorry, I guess I didn't understand that the catalogue was different for the magnet and non-magnet parts of Blair. That seems kind of crazy to put more limitations on the students who are more capable.

[Anonymous]

My kid never reported her scores (which ranged from 3 to 4). Perhaps it helps to put tippy top scores, but we did not and my kid got into 7/10 schools she applied to.

[Anonymous]

It all reminds of the Trumpsters. They're just not gonna believe what they hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason they want Aps is because they want to see you are on the most toughest path. They care about the grade. Much much less so about the score. Top private schools are not giving you the credit anyway.

Even here, many colleges are not requiring 10-15 APs just because they are offered. Need to take a core group and they need to make sense to what you want to do.

I'm not sure where you got these ideas, but I believe you're mistaken. When a highly selective college has a choice between a student who has taken 10 AP classes and has gotten scores of 5 on most versus a student who had the same AP options to choose from and only took 5 and scored 3s and 4s (or chose not to report scores), it's going to matter regardless of the grades they got in the class.

As to private schools not giving credit, this is absolutely not true. Here's a link to Harvard's policy, which is probably similar to other highly selective schools.

https://oue.fas.harvard.edu/apexams

They offer credit for 24 AP courses. Sure, you have to score a 5, but over half of those 5s receive 8 credits toward graduation.

You're right that no college requires a specific number of AP classes, but they do look to see if the choices you've been making include opting for the most rigorous class available.

None of this means that kids should attempt to take more APs than they're capable of handling successfully. Take the highest level offered when you're motivated and can get an A or B in it without stressing yourself out too much. If that doesn't get you into one of the most selective colleges, wherever you land will be able to provide the same opportunities for future success. This website has quite a bit of data that shows this to be true.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/

So I went to that website, and it's conclusion was as follows:

"At the Mayo Clinic, the percentage of students attending schools not in the MC25 was 70% for those who graduated between 1980 and 1999. For those who graduated in 2000 and after, that percentage rose to 74%.

At Skadden Arps, the same percentage rose from 60% to 64%.

At the Washington Post, it went from 56% in the 1980-1999 bracket to 66% in the new century.

At the other top law firm, the percentage rose even more dramatically from 51% to 64%."

If you take the reverse of those numbers, then wouldn't 26% of the Mayo Clinic, 36% of Skadden, 34% of WaPo and 36% of the other 'top law firm' come from their T25 schools.

The same website says that: " These 25 colleges combined can accommodate less than 11% of those in the top 10%, or around 1.1% of all students. "

Why wouldn't you reach the opposite conclusion, that in fact, going to a T25 school dramatically increases your opportunities? True, going to any school does not foreclose any opportunities, but the data doesn't seem to support the idea that you have equal chances at that opportunity.

You've only given a little of the data provided. The site also points out that the reason the most selective colleges have higher percentages than you might expect based on population is that they get first pick of the strongest high school students every year. My thinking is that because what you want to know is if those with high numbers who aren't admitted to one of those top 25 colleges are going to be put at a disadvantage by having to attend a less selective college, you should only be comparing that list of top 25 schools with a very small portion of the population at each of the "backups".

Interesting. So if you take the other 8.9% of the top 10% and assume all of the non top 25 people at these places were from that group (which may or may not be reasonable) - then if the school doesn't matter (or matters very little), should you expect the ratio of non T25 to T25 to be approximately 8:1? But in reality, it's more like 2:1 or 3:1?

That's a good question. I wouldn't want to be the one trying to have to figure out how to answer it. It seems like you'd need access to tons of data that would be difficult to acquire. Like the site says, though, the huge advantage those top 25 schools have is that they get first pick of most of the strongest, most ambitious high school students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges really want you to take AP classes if they're offered at your school and get good grades in them. And it certainly doesn't hurt if you also do really well on the AP exams themselves and let colleges know your scores.

The overwhelming majority of colleges will tell you, though, the scores themselves have little or no impact on college admissions. And how could they, anyway? Most students will have taken half or more of their AP classes in the senior year, and won't have scores on any of those exams until well after they've already been admitted to college.

No true. Colleges want you to take the highest level courses you're capable of being successful in (A or B grade usually), and would wonder why you're taking AP classes if you're getting a C or below a 3 on the exam. And in some high schools, the most advanced kids have already taken 5-10 AP classes by the end of 11th grade. Colleges will absolutely be interested in how well students do on those exams.

What's your source?

15 years of college counseling in a high school with many very high-achieving students.

Ok, great, so you can name specific colleges and what their policies were/are and give us real, helpful and concrete examples. Go for it. We're all ears.

Oh, and while you're at it, where are these high school where kids have 10 AP classes under their belt before their senior year? Can you rattle of a few? That would be great, too.

Thanks.

DP here. 10 AP courses under the belt is fairly common for students in my DC's magnet public school (Poolesville High School). I think it is also common for students in Blair, RMIB, Centennial and Riverside in MD. I am sure that these are not unheard of in W schools either. Students who are in IB schools, many a times, double up on both IB and AP.

Define "fairly common" in the non-magnet school context. Give specifics.

Poster after poster offering fluff as gospel.

I am sure there are some high achiever Asian-American students even in non-magnet schools. Fairly common amongst them. Specifically, if a student is also a NMS semifinalist, then probably between 5-10 AP exams before senior year.

What's with the specification of Asian-American students only? High achievers of all backgrounds take advantage of the opportunities presented to them.

I was wondering the same. So many assumptions there. Also, the assumption that students in magnets like Blair and RMIB would take more APs. Actually, they's likely take less. My Blair student was not allowed to take an APs as a freshman and takes a lot of magnet classes that are considered the equivalent of APs but have more depth on certain topics. She took AP BS as a Soph, so her math classes as a Jr and Sr are not AP but clearly rigorous. Because these programs offer there own rigorous courses, students may take fewer APs.

That must have been a while ago that a Blair student wasn't allowed to take AP as a freshman, or I'm not understanding something in their course descriptions online. All of their AP science and social studies courses say they're open to all grades, as does calculus. I didn't look at Computer Science and Music Theory, but I'll bet they are, too.

No, it's now. This is for Blair magnet. Not the school overall. An earlier poster suggested magnet students take more APs, but for the reasons, I stated above, including not beaing allowed to take them in 9th, the Blair magnet (magnet being the key word here) students would likely take less than a regular Blair or W school or whatever student.

Sorry, I guess I didn't understand that the catalogue was different for the magnet and non-magnet parts of Blair. That seems kind of crazy to put more limitations on the students who are more capable.

I wouldn't say magnet students are more capable necessarily. We know lots of outstanding non mag students at Blair. I think the restriction is because the magnet classes are challenging, and they don't want kids to overload the first year by adding AP to the mix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason they want Aps is because they want to see you are on the most toughest path. They care about the grade. Much much less so about the score. Top private schools are not giving you the credit anyway.

Even here, many colleges are not requiring 10-15 APs just because they are offered. Need to take a core group and they need to make sense to what you want to do.

I'm not sure where you got these ideas, but I believe you're mistaken. When a highly selective college has a choice between a student who has taken 10 AP classes and has gotten scores of 5 on most versus a student who had the same AP options to choose from and only took 5 and scored 3s and 4s (or chose not to report scores), it's going to matter regardless of the grades they got in the class.

As to private schools not giving credit, this is absolutely not true. Here's a link to Harvard's policy, which is probably similar to other highly selective schools.

https://oue.fas.harvard.edu/apexams

They offer credit for 24 AP courses. Sure, you have to score a 5, but over half of those 5s receive 8 credits toward graduation.

You're right that no college requires a specific number of AP classes, but they do look to see if the choices you've been making include opting for the most rigorous class available.

None of this means that kids should attempt to take more APs than they're capable of handling successfully. Take the highest level offered when you're motivated and can get an A or B in it without stressing yourself out too much. If that doesn't get you into one of the most selective colleges, wherever you land will be able to provide the same opportunities for future success. This website has quite a bit of data that shows this to be true.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/

So I went to that website, and it's conclusion was as follows:

"At the Mayo Clinic, the percentage of students attending schools not in the MC25 was 70% for those who graduated between 1980 and 1999. For those who graduated in 2000 and after, that percentage rose to 74%.

At Skadden Arps, the same percentage rose from 60% to 64%.

At the Washington Post, it went from 56% in the 1980-1999 bracket to 66% in the new century.

At the other top law firm, the percentage rose even more dramatically from 51% to 64%."

If you take the reverse of those numbers, then wouldn't 26% of the Mayo Clinic, 36% of Skadden, 34% of WaPo and 36% of the other 'top law firm' come from their T25 schools.

The same website says that: " These 25 colleges combined can accommodate less than 11% of those in the top 10%, or around 1.1% of all students. "

Why wouldn't you reach the opposite conclusion, that in fact, going to a T25 school dramatically increases your opportunities? True, going to any school does not foreclose any opportunities, but the data doesn't seem to support the idea that you have equal chances at that opportunity.

You've only given a little of the data provided. The site also points out that the reason the most selective colleges have higher percentages than you might expect based on population is that they get first pick of the strongest high school students every year. My thinking is that because what you want to know is if those with high numbers who aren't admitted to one of those top 25 colleges are going to be put at a disadvantage by having to attend a less selective college, you should only be comparing that list of top 25 schools with a very small portion of the population at each of the "backups".

Interesting. So if you take the other 8.9% of the top 10% and assume all of the non top 25 people at these places were from that group (which may or may not be reasonable) - then if the school doesn't matter (or matters very little), should you expect the ratio of non T25 to T25 to be approximately 8:1? But in reality, it's more like 2:1 or 3:1?

That's a good question. I wouldn't want to be the one trying to have to figure out how to answer it. It seems like you'd need access to tons of data that would be difficult to acquire. Like the site says, though, the huge advantage those top 25 schools have is that they get first pick of most of the strongest, most ambitious high school students.

possibly, but I don't think that's what the site is arguing. I think they're viewing the top 10% as more or less fungible. Besides, if that logic is true, then it does matter where you go to college because the college itself is determining who is the strongest and most ambitious. So getting into a top 25 school is actually a meaningful yardstick.

I think the whole point is that it is not, right?