Do AP scores matter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges really want you to take AP classes if they're offered at your school and get good grades in them. And it certainly doesn't hurt if you also do really well on the AP exams themselves and let colleges know your scores.

The overwhelming majority of colleges will tell you, though, the scores themselves have little or no impact on college admissions. And how could they, anyway? Most students will have taken half or more of their AP classes in the senior year, and won't have scores on any of those exams until well after they've already been admitted to college.

No true. Colleges want you to take the highest level courses you're capable of being successful in (A or B grade usually), and would wonder why you're taking AP classes if you're getting a C or below a 3 on the exam. And in some high schools, the most advanced kids have already taken 5-10 AP classes by the end of 11th grade. Colleges will absolutely be interested in how well students do on those exams.

What's your source?

15 years of college counseling in a high school with many very high-achieving students.

Ok, great, so you can name specific colleges and what their policies were/are and give us real, helpful and concrete examples. Go for it. We're all ears.

Oh, and while you're at it, where are these high school where kids have 10 AP classes under their belt before their senior year? Can you rattle of a few? That would be great, too.

Thanks.

DP here. 10 AP courses under the belt is fairly common for students in my DC's magnet public school (Poolesville High School). I think it is also common for students in Blair, RMIB, Centennial and Riverside in MD. I am sure that these are not unheard of in W schools either. Students who are in IB schools, many a times, double up on both IB and AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges really want you to take AP classes if they're offered at your school and get good grades in them. And it certainly doesn't hurt if you also do really well on the AP exams themselves and let colleges know your scores.

The overwhelming majority of colleges will tell you, though, the scores themselves have little or no impact on college admissions. And how could they, anyway? Most students will have taken half or more of their AP classes in the senior year, and won't have scores on any of those exams until well after they've already been admitted to college.

No true. Colleges want you to take the highest level courses you're capable of being successful in (A or B grade usually), and would wonder why you're taking AP classes if you're getting a C or below a 3 on the exam. And in some high schools, the most advanced kids have already taken 5-10 AP classes by the end of 11th grade. Colleges will absolutely be interested in how well students do on those exams.

What's your source?

15 years of college counseling in a high school with many very high-achieving students.

Ok, great, so you can name specific colleges and what their policies were/are and give us real, helpful and concrete examples. Go for it. We're all ears.

Oh, and while you're at it, where are these high school where kids have 10 AP classes under their belt before their senior year? Can you rattle of a few? That would be great, too.

Thanks.

DP here. 10 AP courses under the belt is fairly common for students in my DC's magnet public school (Poolesville High School). I think it is also common for students in Blair, RMIB, Centennial and Riverside in MD. I am sure that these are not unheard of in W schools either. Students who are in IB schools, many a times, double up on both IB and AP.

Define "fairly common" in the non-magnet school context. Give specifics.

Poster after poster offering fluff as gospel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC is a senior and some schools ask for AP scores (self-reported) and some don't. I have asked this question several times to different schools (top 1-50) and surprisingly not one of them have said to not self-report. NOT. ONE. If you dig at it, the ad-comm says "We take wholistic view - we would like to see the student challenge themselves in a rigorous curriculum and get good grades". They are extremely cagey about saying what makes a good grade.

A number of private college counselors encouraged him to get good grades and scores in AP courses. My kid is Asian-American male wanting to do CS/Engineering, so what may be "prescribed" and "expected" from him is not necessarily true for everyone else. Take it with a spoon of salt as this is anecdata.

- Take majority of your AP courses before 12th grade so that you can share the scores during applications
- AP courses are weighted so you will benefit your wGPA
- AP courses can be taken from 9th grade
- Some colleges give credits for AP courses. You can check out their website to learn which particular APs and what scores they accept. This allows you to be able to do double majors or graduate early or even lower the cost of college.
- You can self-study and take AP courses, especially if they are not offered at your school
- Certain AP courses are easy and can be paired with other courses. So, if you are taking AP Bio in school, you can self study for AP Envio along with it.
- Take at least one AP from each of the 5 core areas - English, Foreign Language, Social Science, Science, Math - before 12th grade

My kid took the following number of APs in each grade 9th (1), 10th (3), 11th (4) and 12th (4). There are kids in his class that have taken up to 15 and it is entirely doable if you have planned for it from earlier classes and have a strategy of hard work and time management (and of course, knowing the timelines for it).

My kids used Barrons for most of the AP studies.

You're not understanding and/or missing the point. Nobody is saying that colleges don't want you to report the scores. And no where in your thousand word essay have you said anything at all about how much weight any college actually puts on AP scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public colleges (U of MI, U of WI, UMD, Pitt, that I know of) accept 4s and 5s as college credit (maybe even 3s). This means a lot:
- frequently have sophomore status as a freshman (can pick courses earlier and not get shut out)
-can graduate in 3 years (save tons of $$ or do a 4th year masters)

UK and EU universities may use AP test scores to verify whether a U.S. applicant is the equivalent of a good UK/EU high school graduate.

Example: a lot of Dutch universities want to see four AP scores of 3 or higher. Some programs want to see three scores of 4 or higher.

Oxford and Cambridge want to see five scores of 5 or higher.

I think one consideration here is that the median middle class or rich STEM student at a T20 school, who got in mainly because of academic talent, is someone who was prepared academically to be a pretty good college freshman at the age of 12. That’s a student who feels as if taking a regular high school-level class while in high school is as painful as being locked in a dark closet. A student like that might get a low AP test score because of problems with the test development or grading process. Certainly, some high schools have terrible AP teachers, and some have non-AP classes that are better and tougher than the AP equivalents. But a middle class or rich student who really thinks that it’s a big deal to take three or four AP-level classes per year starting in junior year, simply because of the difficulty of dealing with college-level material, isn’t really on track to be a great T20 student.

Obviously, there are all sorts of potential exceptions here. A low-income student, a student from a weak school, a student with any kind of physical or mental health needs, or a student who speaks English as a second language may have to go easy on AP tests. A student at a school with rotten AP teachers might have good reason to avoid them.

Students at private school that refuse to offer AP tests might be too busy to want to self study for AP tests.

But, assuming you’re a college-educated parent with a a decent income, and you have to push your kid toward AP tests, rather than trying to encourage your kid to cut back a little in AP’s, to make room for things like art and driver’s ed, then you need to recognize that pushing your kid toward CS, premed classes or any kind of STEM majors at a T20 school is probably a bad idea. The only way a non-prodigy kid is going to do well in those kinds of programs is if the kid has a lot of drive and intellectual independence, and independently moves toward taking as many college-level classes as possible.

Maybe you can jam a so so kid into a program like that, but what’s that poorly prepared student supposed to do when confronted with problem sets designed by and for the child prodigies? You probably can’t even find tutors who can tutor regular bright kids to handle those program sets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public colleges (U of MI, U of WI, UMD, Pitt, that I know of) accept 4s and 5s as college credit (maybe even 3s). This means a lot:
- frequently have sophomore status as a freshman (can pick courses earlier and not get shut out)
-can graduate in 3 years (save tons of $$ or do a 4th year masters)

UK and EU universities may use AP test scores to verify whether a U.S. applicant is the equivalent of a good UK/EU high school graduate.

Example: a lot of Dutch universities want to see four AP scores of 3 or higher. Some programs want to see three scores of 4 or higher.

Oxford and Cambridge want to see five scores of 5 or higher.

I think one consideration here is that the median middle class or rich STEM student at a T20 school, who got in mainly because of academic talent, is someone who was prepared academically to be a pretty good college freshman at the age of 12. That’s a student who feels as if taking a regular high school-level class while in high school is as painful as being locked in a dark closet. A student like that might get a low AP test score because of problems with the test development or grading process. Certainly, some high schools have terrible AP teachers, and some have non-AP classes that are better and tougher than the AP equivalents. But a middle class or rich student who really thinks that it’s a big deal to take three or four AP-level classes per year starting in junior year, simply because of the difficulty of dealing with college-level material, isn’t really on track to be a great T20 student.

Obviously, there are all sorts of potential exceptions here. A low-income student, a student from a weak school, a student with any kind of physical or mental health needs, or a student who speaks English as a second language may have to go easy on AP tests. A student at a school with rotten AP teachers might have good reason to avoid them.

Students at private school that refuse to offer AP tests might be too busy to want to self study for AP tests.

But, assuming you’re a college-educated parent with a a decent income, and you have to push your kid toward AP tests, rather than trying to encourage your kid to cut back a little in AP’s, to make room for things like art and driver’s ed, then you need to recognize that pushing your kid toward CS, premed classes or any kind of STEM majors at a T20 school is probably a bad idea. The only way a non-prodigy kid is going to do well in those kinds of programs is if the kid has a lot of drive and intellectual independence, and independently moves toward taking as many college-level classes as possible.

Maybe you can jam a so so kid into a program like that, but what’s that poorly prepared student supposed to do when confronted with problem sets designed by and for the child prodigies? You probably can’t even find tutors who can tutor regular bright kids to handle those program sets.

What I've bolded is useful and concrete information that I assume can be verified and will accept at face value. But, really, we are talking about the weight that American colleges, not foreign ones, places on AP scores. And nothing in your post addresses that.

[Anonymous]

"Oxford and Cambridge want to see five scores of 5 or higher."

You can get higher than a 5???

[Anonymous]

I’m relieved my senior submitted strong AP scores and so many others apparently didn’t bother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC is a senior and some schools ask for AP scores (self-reported) and some don't. I have asked this question several times to different schools (top 1-50) and surprisingly not one of them have said to not self-report. NOT. ONE. If you dig at it, the ad-comm says "We take wholistic view - we would like to see the student challenge themselves in a rigorous curriculum and get good grades". They are extremely cagey about saying what makes a good grade.

A number of private college counselors encouraged him to get good grades and scores in AP courses. My kid is Asian-American male wanting to do CS/Engineering, so what may be "prescribed" and "expected" from him is not necessarily true for everyone else. Take it with a spoon of salt as this is anecdata.

- Take majority of your AP courses before 12th grade so that you can share the scores during applications
- AP courses are weighted so you will benefit your wGPA
- AP courses can be taken from 9th grade
- Some colleges give credits for AP courses. You can check out their website to learn which particular APs and what scores they accept. This allows you to be able to do double majors or graduate early or even lower the cost of college.
- You can self-study and take AP courses, especially if they are not offered at your school
- Certain AP courses are easy and can be paired with other courses. So, if you are taking AP Bio in school, you can self study for AP Envio along with it.
- Take at least one AP from each of the 5 core areas - English, Foreign Language, Social Science, Science, Math - before 12th grade

My kid took the following number of APs in each grade 9th (1), 10th (3), 11th (4) and 12th (4). There are kids in his class that have taken up to 15 and it is entirely doable if you have planned for it from earlier classes and have a strategy of hard work and time management (and of course, knowing the timelines for it).

My kids used Barrons for most of the AP studies.

You're not understanding and/or missing the point. Nobody is saying that colleges don't want you to report the scores. And no where in your thousand word essay have you said anything at all about how much weight any college actually puts on AP scores.

Because no college will say that out loud. They just just tell you what will be credited ie what AP subject and at what score. Since Common App has the section for various exams and scores, I am assuming it is being looked at. I am sure all of this will not matter for average schools, average students, average majors and hooked candidates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Oxford and Cambridge want to see five scores of 5 or higher."

You can get higher than a 5???

Clearly the poster meant at least 5 scores of 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges really want you to take AP classes if they're offered at your school and get good grades in them. And it certainly doesn't hurt if you also do really well on the AP exams themselves and let colleges know your scores.

The overwhelming majority of colleges will tell you, though, the scores themselves have little or no impact on college admissions. And how could they, anyway? Most students will have taken half or more of their AP classes in the senior year, and won't have scores on any of those exams until well after they've already been admitted to college.

No true. Colleges want you to take the highest level courses you're capable of being successful in (A or B grade usually), and would wonder why you're taking AP classes if you're getting a C or below a 3 on the exam. And in some high schools, the most advanced kids have already taken 5-10 AP classes by the end of 11th grade. Colleges will absolutely be interested in how well students do on those exams.

What's your source?

15 years of college counseling in a high school with many very high-achieving students.

Ok, great, so you can name specific colleges and what their policies were/are and give us real, helpful and concrete examples. Go for it. We're all ears.

Oh, and while you're at it, where are these high school where kids have 10 AP classes under their belt before their senior year? Can you rattle of a few? That would be great, too.

Thanks.

DP here. 10 AP courses under the belt is fairly common for students in my DC's magnet public school (Poolesville High School). I think it is also common for students in Blair, RMIB, Centennial and Riverside in MD. I am sure that these are not unheard of in W schools either. Students who are in IB schools, many a times, double up on both IB and AP.

Define "fairly common" in the non-magnet school context. Give specifics.

Poster after poster offering fluff as gospel.

I am sure there are some high achiever Asian-American students even in non-magnet schools. Fairly common amongst them. Specifically, if a student is also a NMS semifinalist, then probably between 5-10 AP exams before senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Oxford and Cambridge want to see five scores of 5 or higher."

You can get higher than a 5???

Clearly the poster meant at least 5 scores of 5.

Five subjects with scores of 5 or Six subjects with scores of 5 ....etc

5 for AP
7 for IB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges really want you to take AP classes if they're offered at your school and get good grades in them. And it certainly doesn't hurt if you also do really well on the AP exams themselves and let colleges know your scores.

The overwhelming majority of colleges will tell you, though, the scores themselves have little or no impact on college admissions. And how could they, anyway? Most students will have taken half or more of their AP classes in the senior year, and won't have scores on any of those exams until well after they've already been admitted to college.

No true. Colleges want you to take the highest level courses you're capable of being successful in (A or B grade usually), and would wonder why you're taking AP classes if you're getting a C or below a 3 on the exam. And in some high schools, the most advanced kids have already taken 5-10 AP classes by the end of 11th grade. Colleges will absolutely be interested in how well students do on those exams.

What's your source?

15 years of college counseling in a high school with many very high-achieving students.

Ok, great, so you can name specific colleges and what their policies were/are and give us real, helpful and concrete examples. Go for it. We're all ears.

Oh, and while you're at it, where are these high school where kids have 10 AP classes under their belt before their senior year? Can you rattle of a few? That would be great, too.

Thanks.

Your first request is nonsensical and unnecessary. Colleges don't have policies for what levels high school students should take. But if you're a school counselor and ask them privately because you want to get answers for your students who want to know, they'll tell you their opinions. I don't know that they'd be so forthcoming with applicants/parents, because they don't want to be quoted on something that might upset some people for whatever reason.

Your second request can't serve any purpose that I can see, so I suspect you're just trying to impress everyone with your snarkiness. Take a look at the course catalogue of any high-achieving high school yourself and you'll be able to verify that their are many AP courses open to kids in grades 9-11. And each of those schools will have many students taking advantage of that.

You're welcome.

[Anonymous]

Chillax, OP. Matters for my kid because he has good scores and so he shared. You don't have to share the scores if you don't want to.

Similarly he shared his SAT too because it was pretty good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges really want you to take AP classes if they're offered at your school and get good grades in them. And it certainly doesn't hurt if you also do really well on the AP exams themselves and let colleges know your scores.

The overwhelming majority of colleges will tell you, though, the scores themselves have little or no impact on college admissions. And how could they, anyway? Most students will have taken half or more of their AP classes in the senior year, and won't have scores on any of those exams until well after they've already been admitted to college.

No true. Colleges want you to take the highest level courses you're capable of being successful in (A or B grade usually), and would wonder why you're taking AP classes if you're getting a C or below a 3 on the exam. And in some high schools, the most advanced kids have already taken 5-10 AP classes by the end of 11th grade. Colleges will absolutely be interested in how well students do on those exams.

What's your source?

15 years of college counseling in a high school with many very high-achieving students.

Ok, great, so you can name specific colleges and what their policies were/are and give us real, helpful and concrete examples. Go for it. We're all ears.

Oh, and while you're at it, where are these high school where kids have 10 AP classes under their belt before their senior year? Can you rattle of a few? That would be great, too.

Thanks.

DP here. 10 AP courses under the belt is fairly common for students in my DC's magnet public school (Poolesville High School). I think it is also common for students in Blair, RMIB, Centennial and Riverside in MD. I am sure that these are not unheard of in W schools either. Students who are in IB schools, many a times, double up on both IB and AP.

Define "fairly common" in the non-magnet school context. Give specifics.

Poster after poster offering fluff as gospel.

I am sure there are some high achiever Asian-American students even in non-magnet schools. Fairly common amongst them. Specifically, if a student is also a NMS semifinalist, then probably between 5-10 AP exams before senior year.

What's with the specification of Asian-American students only? High achievers of all backgrounds take advantage of the opportunities presented to them.

[Anonymous]

“ Q: Will UC Berkeley use scores from SAT subject test, AP test, IB test, etc. in the application review process?
A: Yes. Berkeley will continue to accept additional subject test scores that will be used as “value added” in the review process. These subject tests are not required but can be submitted to demonstrate advanced proficiency in an academic subject.”
https://admissions.berkeley.edu/application-faqs

I don’t think there is any question that AP tests will be playing a larger role in a “test-blind” world like the UCs, especially for STEM. I think it will also prove true in the test-optional world. People can pretend it won’t but I think that’s ill-advised.