Nanny enforcing discipline when we're all home together

[Anonymous]

DD is 5 and we also have a young baby. DH and I work from home and keep to our rooms (home office & bedroom) when nanny is here so we don't get in each other's way. Now that we're home together for extended periods of time, I can hear nanny and DD's interactions. DD is often rude and won't listen to what nanny asks of her. DD will also sometimes run into my or DH's room when she wants to get out of doing something. Each time, I tell DD that when nanny is here, she needs to stay with and listen to nanny and get her to go back to nanny.

Example: yesterday, I could hear nanny tell DD to put on shorts after her bath. DD said no, nanny said yes, then DD ran to my room. I told DD listen to nanny and DD walked out upon which I heard nanny tell DD again to wear shorts. Fifteen minutes later, I walk out and DD is still shortless. As in past situations, I told nanny yesterday that DD needs to listen to HER and not to expect me to step in to get DD to obey. That if I'm quiet, don't take it as a cue that I'm okay with what DD is doing, but rather, it's because I defer to nanny's authority over the situation. Nanny seemed to agree with what I said, but ultimately, uncertain what to do.

I know having everyone at home together is a trying situation, BUT it is just exacerbating and not the root cause of DD's rudeness and nanny's inability to enforce discipline as it was a concern for me even before covid. Big factor is nanny's style; when DD acts up or disobeys, nanny's approach is in large part to redirect and distract DD. This was fine when DD was 2, but I personally don't think it's enough for a 5 year old. I'll also mention that while nanny had a lot of childcare experience as a daycare teacher prior to coming to us, we are her first nanny job. Generally speaking, little kids are much more obedient with their teachers in a school setting than they are with their nanny and she seems to not know how to deal with DD's persistent disobedience.

Any advice on what I should say/do to help nanny? I hate micromanaging and have told nanny that it is up to her how to enforce discipline (e.g., time outs, taking away privileges), but she seems lost and has not been. The other day, nanny told DD to stop playing with the iPad (no screentime while nanny is here). DD just ignored her. DH and I were both NOT involved, I could hear this in the hall outside my closed door. I let this go for a few minutes to allow nanny to handle the situation, but she wasn't doing anything. DD was in another room when I quietly said to nanny, "you know she's not allowed to use the iPad." And nanny responded very exasperatedly, "yeah, I know!" and nothing else, as though it was out of her hands. I then said "tell her again she's not allowed and if she doesn't listen, take the iPad away." I can't, or rather don't want to, instruct nanny each and every time something comes up. I have work to do and this is part of her job. Advice??

[Anonymous]

I think you need to have a sit-down chat where DH takes the kids and you lay out EXACTLY what rules you want the nanny to enforce and HOW. I get that you’d rather have a self-starter who can just figure out an approach that works, but you don’t. So instead of being constantly annoyed that she isn’t figuring out her own rules and consequences, lay it out together with her.

[Anonymous]

Your DD is five, old enough to know what she is doing. There should be consequences for not doing what the nanny is asking her to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to have a sit-down chat where DH takes the kids and you lay out EXACTLY what rules you want the nanny to enforce and HOW. I get that you’d rather have a self-starter who can just figure out an approach that works, but you don’t. So instead of being constantly annoyed that she isn’t figuring out her own rules and consequences, lay it out together with her.

+1 It will be better for consistency too.

[Anonymous]

At this point, you need a sit down with everyone, preferably during the baby’s naptime.

These are the rules mom and dad won’t compromise: xyz, including no screens. This is how we’re going to help you follow them: abc, including having a place to plug in the iPad that 5yo can’t get it (your office would be great). This is the system to know whether mom/dad can have a child in the office: clipboard, whiteboard, traffic light, anything that gives a clear indication of yes it’s okay vs now is not a good time. This what will happen if you do any of the above (is if she takes the iPad during the day, no iPad that night or the next night). Make it clear that the adults are working together, and if (when!) she asks why, give her reasons she can understand (iPad use can lead to focus issues because she’ll block out what’s going on around her, eye issues because too much use decreases the number of times she blinks per minute and behavioral issues because taking away the iPad always ends in a fight).

Mom and dad need to verbally back up nanny, because your child thinks the nanny’s on her own when you stand there and say nothing. If you’re in your office, stay quiet. But if you’re in the living room? Nanny says something to the child first, then you do too. If she still doesn’t listen, nanny implements consequence.

It sounds like she’s used to compliant children, and your child is anything but. That will be great when she’s a teen and won’t comply with peers who want her to join in drinking, smoking, etc. Right now, she’s fighting for a few reasons. She’s not getting as much attention due to the baby. She wants to be independent, but nanny is authoritative, then permissive. She’s probably bored. You and nanny need to work on fixing all of those.

For attention, nanny needs to work on multitasking with diverse ages. This doesn’t come easily to many people. She needs to do things like set up the 5yo for a craft while feeding the baby or letting the nanny have tummy time while she reads to the 5yo.

Nanny needs to work on going over to the child, making sure there is eye contact, then state what needs to be done. If the child needs to put on shorts, tell the child to pick a pair or nanny will pick, then once she has shorts on, there will be xyz activity. If she takes the iPad and needs to give it back, the nanny needs to go over and hold out her hand for it, not grab it.

The have no idea what to say for boredom. Most good nannies are keeping kids busy enough that they aren’t thinking about grabbing devices. She should have a mix of fun educational games, reading, science experiments, cooking/baking, movement, crafts/coloring, singing and/listening to movement, etc. While 2-3yo like to repeat the same thing, learning through repetition, 5+ prefer learning through experimenting and new experiences. Possibly, your nanny has been setting too much time aside for free play (younger kids need more), or she’s been trying to get your 5yo to do activities repetitively.

If your nanny can’t or won’t change the way she interacts with your 5yo, you need to change the nanny. At this point, your 5yo is developing a habit of disregarding whatever she says, and you don’t want it to continue. You and the child have some part in this too, but it does sound to me like this nanny would do much better with toddlers and preschoolers.

[Anonymous]

You need to step in and enforce both the request and consequences for not doing it. This will teach your child that nanny has strong backup.

We don’t have this issue with our nanny at all but we have never not backed her up when DS tries to play us against each other. Even with stuff that DH and I would let slide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At this point, you need a sit down with everyone, preferably during the baby’s naptime.

These are the rules mom and dad won’t compromise: xyz, including no screens. This is how we’re going to help you follow them: abc, including having a place to plug in the iPad that 5yo can’t get it (your office would be great). This is the system to know whether mom/dad can have a child in the office: clipboard, whiteboard, traffic light, anything that gives a clear indication of yes it’s okay vs now is not a good time. This what will happen if you do any of the above (is if she takes the iPad during the day, no iPad that night or the next night). Make it clear that the adults are working together, and if (when!) she asks why, give her reasons she can understand (iPad use can lead to focus issues because she’ll block out what’s going on around her, eye issues because too much use decreases the number of times she blinks per minute and behavioral issues because taking away the iPad always ends in a fight).

Mom and dad need to verbally back up nanny, because your child thinks the nanny’s on her own when you stand there and say nothing. If you’re in your office, stay quiet. But if you’re in the living room? Nanny says something to the child first, then you do too. If she still doesn’t listen, nanny implements consequence.

It sounds like she’s used to compliant children, and your child is anything but. That will be great when she’s a teen and won’t comply with peers who want her to join in drinking, smoking, etc. Right now, she’s fighting for a few reasons. She’s not getting as much attention due to the baby. She wants to be independent, but nanny is authoritative, then permissive. She’s probably bored. You and nanny need to work on fixing all of those.

For attention, nanny needs to work on multitasking with diverse ages. This doesn’t come easily to many people. She needs to do things like set up the 5yo for a craft while feeding the baby or letting the nanny have tummy time while she reads to the 5yo.

Nanny needs to work on going over to the child, making sure there is eye contact, then state what needs to be done. If the child needs to put on shorts, tell the child to pick a pair or nanny will pick, then once she has shorts on, there will be xyz activity. If she takes the iPad and needs to give it back, the nanny needs to go over and hold out her hand for it, not grab it.

The have no idea what to say for boredom. Most good nannies are keeping kids busy enough that they aren’t thinking about grabbing devices. She should have a mix of fun educational games, reading, science experiments, cooking/baking, movement, crafts/coloring, singing and/listening to movement, etc. While 2-3yo like to repeat the same thing, learning through repetition, 5+ prefer learning through experimenting and new experiences. Possibly, your nanny has been setting too much time aside for free play (younger kids need more), or she’s been trying to get your 5yo to do activities repetitively.

If your nanny can’t or won’t change the way she interacts with your 5yo, you need to change the nanny. At this point, your 5yo is developing a habit of disregarding whatever she says, and you don’t want it to continue. You and the child have some part in this too, but it does sound to me like this nanny would do much better with toddlers and preschoolers.

Agree up until “you need to change the nanny”. Finding a nanny now is very difficult and for a bratty five-year-old will be even harder.

Make it work, OP.

You can also instill consequences after the fact at five. “If nanny reports any misbehavior today, Larla, there will be no iPad tonight”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your DD is five, old enough to know what she is doing. There should be consequences for not doing what the nanny is asking her to do.

+1 get a rewards chart up to reflect behavior. Add consequences for both good and bad reports.

Also, get noise cancelling headphones. I worked from home through the nanny years. I locked my door and put on my headphones.

[Anonymous]

First, what consequences are you imposing when your DD breaks the rules and interrupts you? If you're not imposing any, then you're not reinforcing the rules either.

Second, are you okay with your DD throwing shrieking temper tantrums while you're working if she doesn't get her way? Given that you apparently can hear every interaction between them at a normal volume, your nanny may be afraid to upset your DD too much and risk disrupting your and your husband's work, especially if you're on an important call or something. Your nanny needs to know you're okay with that level of background disruption before she's going to be comfortable disciplining your DD (because based on what you described, your DD absolutely will throw a screaming fit). If you're not willing to tolerate significant background disruption, you need to be willing to relax the rules.

[Anonymous]

15.51 again. I had another thought. OP, how long has this nanny been with the family? If she was hired for the baby, and your 5yo is an add on due to covid, that explains a lot. It’s easy to bond with infants and toddlers, and they want to please adults. Older kids bond less easily, especially if they sense that they’re an afterthought or that the adult doesn’t like them very much. Your nanny is going to need to devote a certain amount of attention to your infant, but your 5yo also needs to feel that she’s not a chore or that the nanny dislikes her. But with this nanny, that might be impossible at this point.

[Anonymous]

I think it is challenging disciplining a child when the parents are present.

Especially if your Nanny is simply accustomed to both parents not being in the home.

And it is entirely up to you + your husband to enforce to your daughter that she listens & obeys her Nanny.
Because if she doesn’t, she will lose out later.

No dessert after dinner.
No movie nights.

No play dates.
Etc.

[Anonymous]

You need to discipline your child. She gets punished if she comes to you to get out of doing what nanny says or refuses. Either immediately or at night after nanny leaves and she is forced to apologize for her behavior.

[Anonymous]

Frankly I'm dealing with the opposite. Mom is home is uncomfortable with ANY type of discipline, redirection, consequences, etc. They've always misbehaved terribly with her to the extent that other family members have commented on it but they behave relatively well with me because they know I set limits and and mean what I say. Needless to say the past five months have not been easy. BTW these are elementary school age kids not babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your DD is five, old enough to know what she is doing. There should be consequences for not doing what the nanny is asking her to do.

This. When the nanny leaves and your kid asks for a treat or to watch TV, say “Oh no. Kids who don’t do what they are told don’t get treats. I’ll be checking in with nanny to find out how your behavior is. I hope you’ll listen to nanny better in the future.” Then walk away. Don’t listen to the whining, crying, etc that could happen after this conversation. Your kid will now know that you talk to the nanny about his behavior. This is something you need to make clear to the nanny. She can keep a daily log if you don’t have time to talk at the end of the day. Tell her that you want her to be completely honest with you about your kid’s behavior.

[Anonymous]

I think you need a different nanny.

But with your shorts example, that's an issue of picking a battle. The kid is at home - why does she need to put on shorts? I'd have let that one go.

The iPad issue could have been avoided easily. Since DD is not allowed to use an iPad when the nanny is there, the iPad gets put away unseen when the nanny arrives.