It's (finally) time for reparations. It's time for the US to pay its debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't believe any person or group is entitled to reparations for anything that happened to people in a prior generation under any circumstances, no matter how horrible that was.

And like I've said previously, there is current harm from slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc.

Can you please explain why cash is better than directly addressing the systemic causes of wealth gaps with better K-12, college and housing subsidies, universal health care, etc? Assume (because this is reality) that we can’t do both.

It seems like somebody who gets $50k could put it to college, but then the returns to Blacks from a college education is lower than the returns to whites. Plus $50k covers less than half of a good state college, so where does remaining tuition come from?

To buy a house in a better school district, you’d have to save that $50k for decades until it became several hundred thousand dollars. This is because $50k could be a deposit on a house, but it won’t pay the mortgage going forward, especially if this drives up housing prices and mortgage balances. So you need savings of hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep topping up the payments from your low income.

What has that $50k accomplished, then? It hasn’t even helped prepare kids for college (fix failing public schools) or improved healthcare or improved housing choices.

I don’t think it’s better. I think other programs within a comprehensive “reparations” program are a higher priority.

But it’s also important to have a conversation about direct payouts. I’d be happy if Congress would investigate all of the above. That’d be a great first start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw, I mean that there would be an annual siphon of a certain percentage of USA GDP into this sovereign wealth fund, tax free of course, and that this would continue in perpetuity San as ur country exists

The Norwegian soveign fund is an example.

In years when we had crisis in AA community where things needed immediate attention, a withdrawal could be made from the fund and in years of economic boom more would be contributed because there would be more GDP

But unlike taxes, allocation of those funds would not be in hands of politicians who might be opposed .

Instead, the money would, by irrevocable trust,from GDP be invested into the fund, managed as long term asset portfolio ( think the Vatican )
and, of course, insured

Do you see the difference between THAT and a reparation check ?

How are you proposing to distribute the money to those who hold an interest in the fund? Because if you aren't planning on sending frequent distributions to individual shareholders, it just sounds like another plan to steal from AA people to further the interests of professional activists.

Exactly! The rich get richer

And the poor get poorer

[Anonymous]

Reparations in a form of a money payment will NEVER happen. The focus would/should be a revamp of the current system in cities. Revamp To food stamps, how we handle single parents with kids that need help etc etc. not saying I know what to change, but all of that needs to be looked at and changes to help people climb out of poverty and a chance at bettering themselves and kids. AND (not to lose focus) a change to police training or social workers to help pave the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey. Both sides of my family immigrated here in the early 1900s. Do I have to pay too? Also, will black people have to pay taxes that will pay to pay them back? Hmmmm....

Already asked and answered. Try to keep up.

Answered by you? No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reparations in a form of a money payment will NEVER happen. The focus would/should be a revamp of the current system in cities. Revamp To food stamps, how we handle single parents with kids that need help etc etc. not saying I know what to change, but all of that needs to be looked at and changes to help people climb out of poverty and a chance at bettering themselves and kids. AND (not to lose focus) a change to police training or social workers to help pave the way.

Ok, thanks social engineering guy. How about we just go back to the constitution with one change: we treat all mankind equal, not just white dudes with powedered wigs? It was and is a great legislative document and if applied to all sexes, ages, races, religions, and ethnicities would solve so many’s ills. When govies try to engineer things they just make it worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't believe any person or group is entitled to reparations for anything that happened to people in a prior generation under any circumstances, no matter how horrible that was.

And like I've said previously, there is current harm from slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc.

Can you please explain why cash is better than directly addressing the systemic causes of wealth gaps with better K-12, college and housing subsidies, universal health care, etc? Assume (because this is reality) that we can’t do both.

It seems like somebody who gets $50k could put it to college, but then the returns to Blacks from a college education is lower than the returns to whites. Plus $50k covers less than half of a good state college, so where does remaining tuition come from?

To buy a house in a better school district, you’d have to save that $50k for decades until it became several hundred thousand dollars. This is because $50k could be a deposit on a house, but it won’t pay the mortgage going forward, especially if this drives up housing prices and mortgage balances. So you need savings of hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep topping up the payments from your low income.

What has that $50k accomplished, then? It hasn’t even helped prepare kids for college (fix failing public schools) or improved healthcare or improved housing choices.

I don’t think it’s better. I think other programs within a comprehensive “reparations” program are a higher priority.

But it’s also important to have a conversation about direct payouts. I’d be happy if Congress would investigate all of the above. That’d be a great first start.

DP here. With non answers like that, you should really run for office.

[Anonymous]

All the free and subsidized social benefits that low-income blacks have been receiving for many decades can be viewed as a form of reparations. More of the same won’t translate into equal outcomes as much as some would like to pretend otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey. Both sides of my family immigrated here in the early 1900s. Do I have to pay too? Also, will black people have to pay taxes that will pay to pay them back? Hmmmm....

Already asked and answered. Try to keep up.

Exactly.

And for the people who didn’t bother to read, and keep asking this question, YES, you are responsible for reparations.

It doesn’t matter if you are an immigrant who showed up here two years ago, or twenty years ago.

You benefited from a social structure with baked in racism. The institutions that helped you advance in this country, regardless of how hard you “worked,” have been oppressing us for four centuries.

+1

You get the good and the bad that comes with the US. You can't pick and choose, entitled immigrants.

Well, I suspect many immigrants will not see it that way, especially if you ignore their own histories and call them racist names. And there are more of them than there are of you, so as long as this is a democracy, you may simply be outvoted.

I haven't called immigrants racist names or ignored their stories.

-descendent of immigrants

Well I think the term "entitled immigrant" is racist and this thread has had worse examples in regards to immigrants. This thread is all about ignoring other people's stories, so that one particular story is favored. Maybe that's only natural when you've been the most disfavored group for so long, but that doesn't make it right.

"Entitled immigrant" is not "racist". I was referring to the immigrants who feel entitled to the perks of being a US citizen, but none of the downsides.

This thread is about one unique aspect of US history and the long-lasting impacts of those racist policies.

Feel free to start new threads to discuss other wrongs and I'll happily join them.

Well opinions as to what is a racist comment can vary.

In any event, at present, "reparations" are not a downside to being a US citizen. As long as you are seeking personal payment for the actions of a handful of white slaveowners 200 years ago, everyone who is not related to those slaveowners will say "that has nothing to do with me."

You can claim "it's not about me" all you want. But if, at the end kf the day, you personally get a check in your hands for something that happened to your great-great grandfather, it's personal, and everyone who has to foot the bill will see it that way.

This thread is 58 pages long. If you read any significant portion of it, you'd realize that it's not all just about slavery. If you truly are interested in discussing, go back and read. Start with the OP.

Yes, I've been actively participating. And slavery is CONSTANTLY brought up as a key element. And the only time someone says it isn't is when anyone objects to basing it on slavery.

In the OP, the following is bolded:

" Reparations are a societal obligation in a nation where our Constitution sanctioned slavery, Congress passed laws protecting it and our federal government initiated, condoned and practiced legal racial segregation and discrimination against black Americans until half a century ago."

So yeah, it isn't JUST about slavery. But it sure is right there, front and center.

Right. That was the "original sin". But not the only one.

It's not just about "the actions of a handful of white slaveowners 200 years ago" as you commented.

Well, then I'll issue my prior blanket objections.

I don't believe any person or group is entitled to reparations for anything that happened to people in a prior generation under any circumstances, no matter how horrible that was.

And like I've said previously, there is current harm [Understood, please stop here.] from slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc. [Damn, you didn't stop. Can we please go back to talking about current harm? I'm sorry, but we can't fix the past, and the linkages from past to present are really not that simple. ]

Well you don't seem to be getting the message, so I inserted notes above.

As I’ve said before...

There is "residual harm" from all of the various forms of oppression that have happened over the last 400 years.

slavery - loss of language, religion, family, history, culture
Jim Crow - segregation, monuments to celebrate white supremacy
redlining - further segregation

Segregation has led to decreased wealth, health, education, opportunity, etc. -- measurable harm in almost all aspects of life.

You still have not even attempted to explain why it makes any difference if the harm is "residual" or not. You just keep repeating yourself and ignore everything everyone else says.

[Anonymous]

No one has answered the simple question of who pays? Do Asians have to pay? If so, can someone explain why?

Also, if we’re doing reparations for last crimes so Asians of Japanese decent have to pay back Hawaii?

[Anonymous]

Back to the immigrant argument.

Asian immigrants frequently come to this country with nothing, but the kids go to college because education is a priority.

Why should they pay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back to the immigrant argument.

Asian immigrants frequently come to this country with nothing, but the kids go to college because education is a priority.

Why should they pay?

Most immigrants come to this country with nothing. They choose to come to American with America's ugly past. Not opining on reparations, but you become a part of America when you come here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to the immigrant argument.

Asian immigrants frequently come to this country with nothing, but the kids go to college because education is a priority.

Why should they pay?

Most immigrants come to this country with nothing. They choose to come to American with America's ugly past. Not opining on reparations, but you become a part of America when you come here.

And blacks choose to stay with the same ugly past. If they don't like it, they can go somewhere else with a better past. See how that works?

[Anonymous]

I hope this talk of reparations continues on for months.
It will only help Trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Nobody is going to give you a dime. Even if they did, nothing would change and you would still have a million excuses. Maybe you could learn something from immigrants who came from far more challenging circumstances.

Far more challenging? I'm reading a book called "White Rage" by Carol Anderson, a professor at Emory. She tells a story of a black man who worked for a brutal plantation owner in the 1920s in Valdosta, GA. He beat the men who worked for him. One day, a man fought back and killed him. In retaliation, the white people lynched 20 random black people. Including a man and his wife. The wife was 8 months pregnant. Her name was Mary Tyler. They tied her up and burned her while she was alive. They cut the baby from her and then when it fell to the ground, it cried. A white man talked over and stomped its head.

None of the white mob got tried or went to jail. Learn some history before you come on her talking about circumstances. You don't know sh!t.

Whether you like it not, black people built this country for free. Did immigrants do that? You clearly don't know your history and sound ignorant. It's sad really.

That's a very lovely story and you tell it so well...such enthusiasm.

Fact is you can find similar stories from every race and every nation. It's not unique. You show zero sympathy for the trials and tribulations of your fellow man. Why would you expect or deserve reparations for anything?

But we live in America and this is America's story, not that of another nation. Did other immigrants in America suffer this way for 300 years? Waiting...

You don't get to play that card if you don't recognize that there are all sorts of people in this country who have connections to people who were being raped and tortured long before Columbus sailed the ocean blue. It's not all about what may or may not have happened in the last 400 years. Go back further and further. The problem is with human nature. If you need someone to point the finger at, point it at Eve the original sinner.

Quick to pass the buck and blame a fictional person instead of taking some (collective) responsibility, huh?

Quick to miss the point, huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't believe any person or group is entitled to reparations for anything that happened to people in a prior generation under any circumstances, no matter how horrible that was.

And like I've said previously, there is current harm from slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc.

Can you please explain why cash is better than directly addressing the systemic causes of wealth gaps with better K-12, college and housing subsidies, universal health care, etc? Assume (because this is reality) that we can’t do both.

It seems like somebody who gets $50k could put it to college, but then the returns to Blacks from a college education is lower than the returns to whites. Plus $50k covers less than half of a good state college, so where does remaining tuition come from?

To buy a house in a better school district, you’d have to save that $50k for decades until it became several hundred thousand dollars. This is because $50k could be a deposit on a house, but it won’t pay the mortgage going forward, especially if this drives up housing prices and mortgage balances. So you need savings of hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep topping up the payments from your low income.

What has that $50k accomplished, then? It hasn’t even helped prepare kids for college (fix failing public schools) or improved healthcare or improved housing choices.

I don’t think it’s better. I think other programs within a comprehensive “reparations” program are a higher priority.

But it’s also important to have a conversation about direct payouts. I’d be happy if Congress would investigate all of the above. That’d be a great first start.

Pp here. I don’t think anybody has tried to answer these questions in 60 pages. Or somebody else’s point about calling something reparations (as the package of reforms I want, or as cash) will give cons an excuse to never address inequality again, because “we paid reparations so we’re done.”

I don’t understand your position. You say we need to have a national discussion about something that’s a lower priority to you. Why? Because you think it will be rejected?