terrorist attack in Paris

[Anonymous]

I don't like the face cover, and I don't like miniskirts, and I don't like excessive cleavages and I don't like the muffintops, but I do not presume to be able to tell others how to dress. You shouldn't, either. You have no idea what the garment represents to the person who wears it. Forcible uncovering is as bad as forcible covering. Your personal feelings about other people's outfits don't mean anything to anyone who isn't you. I wonder how it is that you don't understand it.

Sorry. Covering of face is a security issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Burtka represents oppression and sexual violence

Explain the basis of your entitlement to see everyone's face.

Not PP. The burqa represents spirituality and religious devotion to you? There is no element of repression, or oppression, or connection with sexual violence or abuse?

I don't like the face cover, and I don't like miniskirts, and I don't like excessive cleavages and I don't like the muffintops, but I do not presume to be able to tell others how to dress. You shouldn't, either. You have no idea what the garment represents to the person who wears it. Forcible uncovering is as bad as forcible covering. Your personal feelings about other people's outfits don't mean anything to anyone who isn't you. I wonder how it is that you don't understand it.

There's a name for what you just described: cultural relativism.

And for you: cultural dictatorship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't like the face cover, and I don't like miniskirts, and I don't like excessive cleavages and I don't like the muffintops, but I do not presume to be able to tell others how to dress. You shouldn't, either. You have no idea what the garment represents to the person who wears it. Forcible uncovering is as bad as forcible covering. Your personal feelings about other people's outfits don't mean anything to anyone who isn't you. I wonder how it is that you don't understand it.

Sorry. Covering of face is a security issue.

No one objects to uncovered faces when security is an issue (i.e. at ID checks, security checks, airline check-ins, ID pictures etc.), but security issues are up to the security personnel to handle. Women who cover their faces have no issues showing them for people charged with security. You are not that person, and no one has an obligation to uncover before YOU.

[Anonymous]

No one objects to uncovered faces when security is an issue (i.e. at ID checks, security checks, airline check-ins, ID pictures etc.), but security issues are up to the security personnel to handle. Women who cover their faces have no issues showing them for people charged with security. You are not that person, and no one has an obligation to uncover before YOU.

That is your opinion. There is a lot more to security than Transportation Security. There is a reason that tinted windows aren't allowed in a lot of states. Same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No one objects to uncovered faces when security is an issue (i.e. at ID checks, security checks, airline check-ins, ID pictures etc.), but security issues are up to the security personnel to handle. Women who cover their faces have no issues showing them for people charged with security. You are not that person, and no one has an obligation to uncover before YOU.

That is your opinion. There is a lot more to security than Transportation Security. There is a reason that tinted windows aren't allowed in a lot of states. Same thing.

Even if there WAS a ban on face covering, it would never stop committed criminals. My opinion? Of course it is. And that is just your opinion. That's all we are doing here. Exchanging opinions. Yours isn't worth any more than mine.

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

No one objects to uncovered faces when security is an issue (i.e. at ID checks, security checks, airline check-ins, ID pictures etc.), but security issues are up to the security personnel to handle. Women who cover their faces have no issues showing them for people charged with security. You are not that person, and no one has an obligation to uncover before YOU.

That is your opinion. There is a lot more to security than Transportation Security. There is a reason that tinted windows aren't allowed in a lot of states. Same thing.

Your opinion is a valuable one , but the US government and the governments of the majority of countries in the world do not agree with you, so niqabis will still wear their niqabs and go on with their day. If that frightens you, too bad!!!

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one objects to uncovered faces when security is an issue (i.e. at ID checks, security checks, airline check-ins, ID pictures etc.), but security issues are up to the security personnel to handle. Women who cover their faces have no issues showing them for people charged with security. You are not that person, and no one has an obligation to uncover before YOU.

That is your opinion. There is a lot more to security than Transportation Security. There is a reason that tinted windows aren't allowed in a lot of states. Same thing.

Your opinion is a valuable one , but the US government and the governments of the majority of countries in the world do not agree with you, so niqabis will still wear their niqabs and go on with their day. If that frightens you, too bad!!!

It doesn't frighten me, it makes me sad. As a modern Western woman, living in a modern Western world.

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one objects to uncovered faces when security is an issue (i.e. at ID checks, security checks, airline check-ins, ID pictures etc.), but security issues are up to the security personnel to handle. Women who cover their faces have no issues showing them for people charged with security. You are not that person, and no one has an obligation to uncover before YOU.

That is your opinion. There is a lot more to security than Transportation Security. There is a reason that tinted windows aren't allowed in a lot of states. Same thing.

Your opinion is a valuable one , but the US government and the governments of the majority of countries in the world do not agree with you, so niqabis will still wear their niqabs and go on with their day. If that frightens you, too bad!!!

It doesn't frighten me, it makes me sad. As a modern Western woman, living in a modern Western world.

And I am sad for you as well. God bless your heart!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one objects to uncovered faces when security is an issue (i.e. at ID checks, security checks, airline check-ins, ID pictures etc.), but security issues are up to the security personnel to handle. Women who cover their faces have no issues showing them for people charged with security. You are not that person, and no one has an obligation to uncover before YOU.

That is your opinion. There is a lot more to security than Transportation Security. There is a reason that tinted windows aren't allowed in a lot of states. Same thing.

Your opinion is a valuable one , but the US government and the governments of the majority of countries in the world do not agree with you, so niqabis will still wear their niqabs and go on with their day. If that frightens you, too bad!!!

It doesn't frighten me, it makes me sad. As a modern Western woman, living in a modern Western world.

You mean it makes you sad the world refuses to mold itself to your perception of what's right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one objects to uncovered faces when security is an issue (i.e. at ID checks, security checks, airline check-ins, ID pictures etc.), but security issues are up to the security personnel to handle. Women who cover their faces have no issues showing them for people charged with security. You are not that person, and no one has an obligation to uncover before YOU.

That is your opinion. There is a lot more to security than Transportation Security. There is a reason that tinted windows aren't allowed in a lot of states. Same thing.

Your opinion is a valuable one , but the US government and the governments of the majority of countries in the world do not agree with you, so niqabis will still wear their niqabs and go on with their day. If that frightens you, too bad!!!

It doesn't frighten me, it makes me sad. As a modern Western woman, living in a modern Western world.

You mean it makes you sad the world refuses to mold itself to your perception of what's right?

No, I mean as someone who values the Western idea of feminism (both of my parents, especially my father, were proud feminists and children of the 60s), it makes me sad that other women who are living in a Western country are wholeheartedly rejecting that idea, either consciously or unconsciously. I feel the same way about quiverful women, too, although that choice is usually made consciously, rather than unconsciously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
No, I mean as someone who values the Western idea of feminism (both of my parents, especially my father, were proud feminists and children of the 60s), it makes me sad that other women who are living in a Western country are wholeheartedly rejecting that idea, either consciously or unconsciously. I feel the same way about quiverful women, too, although that choice is usually made consciously, rather than unconsciously.

You realize that's the same thing, right? You value the Western idea of feminism. It makes you sad other people don't value it like you do. You want everyone to be like you and it makes you sad that they aren't.

Silly me. I thought feminism was about freedom of choice. You and people like you are simply incapable of imagining that someone may make a choice different from yours voluntarily. In your mind, freedom of choice means everyone chooses exactly what you would. If they don't, they must be forced.

Too bad you don't see that forcing someone to conform to the dress code you have in mind is pure violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, I mean as someone who values the Western idea of feminism (both of my parents, especially my father, were proud feminists and children of the 60s), it makes me sad that other women who are living in a Western country are wholeheartedly rejecting that idea, either consciously or unconsciously. I feel the same way about quiverful women, too, although that choice is usually made consciously, rather than unconsciously.

You realize that's the same thing, right? You value the Western idea of feminism. It makes you sad other people don't value it like you do. You want everyone to be like you and it makes you sad that they aren't.

Silly me. I thought feminism was about freedom of choice. You and people like you are simply incapable of imagining that someone may make a choice different from yours voluntarily. In your mind, freedom of choice means everyone chooses exactly what you would. If they don't, they must be forced.

Too bad you don't see that forcing someone to conform to the dress code you have in mind is pure violence.

I understand that a woman's choice is the heart of feminism. I understand that in this country, women choose to work or not, get married or not, have children or not, have careers or hobbies or sit on the couch eating bonbons all day. I also understand that other cultures don't allow that choice. And Muslima is not convincing me that every niqabi has chosen A instead of B.

Pure violence? What is the greatest determinate for sexual abuse and gender dicrimination? Gender inequality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, I mean as someone who values the Western idea of feminism (both of my parents, especially my father, were proud feminists and children of the 60s), it makes me sad that other women who are living in a Western country are wholeheartedly rejecting that idea, either consciously or unconsciously. I feel the same way about quiverful women, too, although that choice is usually made consciously, rather than unconsciously.

You realize that's the same thing, right? You value the Western idea of feminism. It makes you sad other people don't value it like you do. You want everyone to be like you and it makes you sad that they aren't.

Silly me. I thought feminism was about freedom of choice. You and people like you are simply incapable of imagining that someone may make a choice different from yours voluntarily. In your mind, freedom of choice means everyone chooses exactly what you would. If they don't, they must be forced.

Too bad you don't see that forcing someone to conform to the dress code you have in mind is pure violence.

I understand that a woman's choice is the heart of feminism. I understand that in this country, women choose to work or not, get married or not, have children or not, have careers or hobbies or sit on the couch eating bonbons all day. I also understand that other cultures don't allow that choice. And Muslima is not convincing me that every niqabi has chosen A instead of B.

Pure violence? What is the greatest determinate for sexual abuse and gender dicrimination? Gender inequality.

I don't see any contradiction in this, you are essentially agreeing with me. You have trouble believing that anyone who chooses differently from you is choosing it voluntarily. You need special proof that they are, because you think that anyone in their right mind would choose exactly the way you did. And you are going to be reeeeally picky with that proof. Like, "no, still not convinced!"

If you think that uncovered women are never sexually abused or discriminated against, you're wrong.

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one objects to uncovered faces when security is an issue (i.e. at ID checks, security checks, airline check-ins, ID pictures etc.), but security issues are up to the security personnel to handle. Women who cover their faces have no issues showing them for people charged with security. You are not that person, and no one has an obligation to uncover before YOU.

That is your opinion. There is a lot more to security than Transportation Security. There is a reason that tinted windows aren't allowed in a lot of states. Same thing.

Your opinion is a valuable one , but the US government and the governments of the majority of countries in the world do not agree with you, so niqabis will still wear their niqabs and go on with their day. If that frightens you, too bad!!!

It doesn't frighten me, it makes me sad. As a modern Western woman, living in a modern Western world.

And I am sad for you as well. God bless your heart!

Different PP, but I'm sad for you. Being so brainwashed as to pretend niqabis are a free choice and not the result of enculturated oppression of women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, I mean as someone who values the Western idea of feminism (both of my parents, especially my father, were proud feminists and children of the 60s), it makes me sad that other women who are living in a Western country are wholeheartedly rejecting that idea, either consciously or unconsciously. I feel the same way about quiverful women, too, although that choice is usually made consciously, rather than unconsciously.

You realize that's the same thing, right? You value the Western idea of feminism. It makes you sad other people don't value it like you do. You want everyone to be like you and it makes you sad that they aren't.

Silly me. I thought feminism was about freedom of choice. You and people like you are simply incapable of imagining that someone may make a choice different from yours voluntarily. In your mind, freedom of choice means everyone chooses exactly what you would. If they don't, they must be forced.

Too bad you don't see that forcing someone to conform to the dress code you have in mind is pure violence.

No, it isn't "pure violence". That's a BS thing people make up to try to equate limitations on religious expression that infringe on other rights with actual violence, so that they can justify their own actual violence. Not buying.