Has Duran gone mad? (APS)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please tell me why APS is having a harder time with re-opening compared to all our neighbors and daycares/private schools? Why is it less safe for Arlington??

Because fundamentally a private school relies on its tuition paying students. Students don't pay tuition for virtual school (especially when it is the school choosing to be virtual, not the edict of the government.) So they had to open to open in the future. The same goes for daycare. APS relies on the taxpayers. The teachers/ admin, etc get paid regardless of whether or not school is open. The incentives are completely different.

100%. Whenever posters bring up private schools, daycares, preschools, what's the difference? They are a business! They are driven by money.

Also, apparently, they can set hard and fast mitigation rules that public schools seem to waver on for whatever reason. They can more easily eject the non compliant, and they can create a kind of school community bubble that isn’t possible when mingling with the unwashed masses. I am not trying to sound elitist, just being realistic. The families of public school kids, for economic reasons, are more likely to have to mingle with the community at large.

Yes and no. The dynamics of kicking kids out are a bit more complicated than that for a private school. For instance, if a family is a consistent donor to the school, the HoS may be under a lot of pressure from the board not to kick the kid out despite infractions because then the donation dollars leave with them. You can buy yourself a good amount of accommodation in a private school if you’re willing to put up the $$.

For this kind of accommodation, that is unlikely, because it would spark outrage from other families who also donate to the school.

[Anonymous]

Remote learning should be the exception, not the rule. It's unacceptable to force this long-term upon students and it's already gone on far too long. Enough is enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

Interesting.. not trying to be snarky, but at the end of the day, who is the taxpayer here? There is a certain responsibility to the taxpayers of the County that should take precedent. Otherwise, I see a series of lawsuits being filed.

Taxpayers are not shareholders, and you can’t think of APS the same as a private corporation. Taxpayers are not the only priority. I support rolling out hybrid, but yours is a fundamentally incorrect question.

Exactly. And what would the law suits be for? You are only obligated to an education. Not an in-person education. And that quality of education is subjective. The only lawsuits that could possibly be created are for students for special needs. And you know that county is trying to cover there a$$es there.

Where does it state that remote learning qualifies as a standard education? Sadly, I think there will be many more students with special needs and behavioral issues the longer remote learning remains.

Where does it say that in person is the standard, especially since this date does have a public online school? That is the problem when people say that there will be lawsuits.

This is just a silly argument. Nobody expected anything but an in-person learning when raising a family in Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please tell me why APS is having a harder time with re-opening compared to all our neighbors and daycares/private schools? Why is it less safe for Arlington??

Because fundamentally a private school relies on its tuition paying students. Students don't pay tuition for virtual school (especially when it is the school choosing to be virtual, not the edict of the government.) So they had to open to open in the future. The same goes for daycare. APS relies on the taxpayers. The teachers/ admin, etc get paid regardless of whether or not school is open. The incentives are completely different.

100%. Whenever posters bring up private schools, daycares, preschools, what's the difference? They are a business! They are driven by money.

Also, apparently, they can set hard and fast mitigation rules that public schools seem to waver on for whatever reason. They can more easily eject the non compliant, and they can create a kind of school community bubble that isn’t possible when mingling with the unwashed masses. I am not trying to sound elitist, just being realistic. The families of public school kids, for economic reasons, are more likely to have to mingle with the community at large.

Yes and no. The dynamics of kicking kids out are a bit more complicated than that for a private school. For instance, if a family is a consistent donor to the school, the HoS may be under a lot of pressure from the board not to kick the kid out despite infractions because then the donation dollars leave with them. You can buy yourself a good amount of accommodation in a private school if you’re willing to put up the $$.

For this kind of accommodation, that is unlikely, because it would spark outrage from other families who also donate to the school.

The issue is rarely as simple as someone who flat-out refuses to wear a mask, even in a public school. Most of the time, it’s going to be someone who keeps taking it off when they’re not supposed to, but at a time when they can come up with an excuse - I was just about to take a sip of water, the elastic was twisted and I was just trying to fix it, etc. As much as parents would get up in arms about flat-out noncompliance, they will get just as up in arms if they perceive the school as arbitrarily throwing kids out for things that shouldn’t be considered violations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

Is this for real? Imagine if every county in the country had such insane demands.

No, it's not for real. That is probably the "moving the goalposts" poster who lives in an alternate reality.

The reality is that no one has implemented safety measures yet so APS schools can open safely. Not the federal government, not the state, not the county board, and not APS.

We need free, regular testing (entrance & surveillance), air filters for every classroom, PPE, etc.

Those are in the best interest of ALL stakeholders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

Is this for real? Imagine if every county in the country had such insane demands.

No, it's not for real. That is probably the "moving the goalposts" poster who lives in an alternate reality.

The reality is that no one has implemented safety measures yet so APS schools can open safely. Not the federal government, not the state, not the county board, and not APS.

We need free, regular testing (entrance & surveillance), air filters for every classroom, PPE, etc.

Those are in the best interest of ALL stakeholders.

It is untrue that no safety measures have been implemented. There is a summary of the safety measures implemented for Level 1 on the APS website. You may not feel that the safety measures go far enough, but it is simply wrong to say there have been no safety measures implemented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher safety should be everyone’s priority, not just AEA.

Safety isn’t a yes/no question, everyone has their own idea as to what’s safe enough. That’s what this debate is really about.

APS hasn't done much yet wrt to safety.

Where is the free testing for entrance & surveillance? Where are the air filters for every classroom? Where is the PPE?

Make some progress there and then we can talk.

There are tons of PPE sitting in every school right now, I can assure you. I know they are ordering more air filters, but not for every room, but rooms without windows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

Interesting.. not trying to be snarky, but at the end of the day, who is the taxpayer here? There is a certain responsibility to the taxpayers of the County that should take precedent. Otherwise, I see a series of lawsuits being filed.

Taxpayers are not shareholders, and you can’t think of APS the same as a private corporation. Taxpayers are not the only priority. I support rolling out hybrid, but yours is a fundamentally incorrect question.

Exactly. And what would the law suits be for? You are only obligated to an education. Not an in-person education. And that quality of education is subjective. The only lawsuits that could possibly be created are for students for special needs. And you know that county is trying to cover there a$$es there.

Where does it state that remote learning qualifies as a standard education? Sadly, I think there will be many more students with special needs and behavioral issues the longer remote learning remains.

Where does it say that in person is the standard, especially since this date does have a public online school? That is the problem when people say that there will be lawsuits.

This is just a silly argument. Nobody expected anything but an in-person learning when raising a family in Arlington.

I don’t think many people expected the U.S. would so completely botch its response to a pandemic, but here we are. APS is one of the best public school districts in the country and that is largely due to its amazing faculty. I am surprised so many members of the community would prefer to treat their best resource like cannon fodder to secure a short term interest, rather than give them the armor they need (safety measures and vaccines) to continue to serve the county’s interests.

[Anonymous]

Safety measures will take place with masks, hand-washing and social distancing.. certainly enough to implement hybrid for the elementary students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher safety should be everyone’s priority, not just AEA.

Safety isn’t a yes/no question, everyone has their own idea as to what’s safe enough. That’s what this debate is really about.

APS hasn't done much yet wrt to safety.

Where is the free testing for entrance & surveillance? Where are the air filters for every classroom? Where is the PPE?

Make some progress there and then we can talk.

There are tons of PPE sitting in every school right now, I can assure you. I know they are ordering more air filters, but not for every room, but rooms without windows.

You are “anonymous” so your assurances mean exactly nada.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

Interesting.. not trying to be snarky, but at the end of the day, who is the taxpayer here? There is a certain responsibility to the taxpayers of the County that should take precedent. Otherwise, I see a series of lawsuits being filed.

Taxpayers are not shareholders, and you can’t think of APS the same as a private corporation. Taxpayers are not the only priority. I support rolling out hybrid, but yours is a fundamentally incorrect question.

Exactly. And what would the law suits be for? You are only obligated to an education. Not an in-person education. And that quality of education is subjective. The only lawsuits that could possibly be created are for students for special needs. And you know that county is trying to cover there a$$es there.

Where does it state that remote learning qualifies as a standard education? Sadly, I think there will be many more students with special needs and behavioral issues the longer remote learning remains.

Where does it say that in person is the standard, especially since this date does have a public online school? That is the problem when people say that there will be lawsuits.

This is just a silly argument. Nobody expected anything but an in-person learning when raising a family in Arlington.

I don’t think many people expected the U.S. would so completely botch its response to a pandemic, but here we are. APS is one of the best public school districts in the country and that is largely due to its amazing faculty. I am surprised so many members of the community would prefer to treat their best resource like cannon fodder to secure a short term interest, rather than give them the armor they need (safety measures and vaccines) to continue to serve the county’s interests.

Maybe there should be a gofundme to help raise funds for testing and ppe equipment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Safety measures will take place with masks, hand-washing and social distancing.. certainly enough to implement hybrid for the elementary students.

If you repeat a statement numerous times, people begin to believe it, whether it is true or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher safety should be everyone’s priority, not just AEA.

Safety isn’t a yes/no question, everyone has their own idea as to what’s safe enough. That’s what this debate is really about.

APS hasn't done much yet wrt to safety.

Where is the free testing for entrance & surveillance? Where are the air filters for every classroom? Where is the PPE?

Make some progress there and then we can talk.

There are tons of PPE sitting in every school right now, I can assure you. I know they are ordering more air filters, but not for every room, but rooms without windows.

You are “anonymous” so your assurances mean exactly nada.

DP. Do you evidence that pp is wrong? I’ve heard plenty from APS at school board meetings, on the website, etc., about the PPE and other safety equipment that’s been purchased and that they are continuing to purchase. Blanket claims that other people are wrong or lying isn’t very compelling without support for your position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

Interesting.. not trying to be snarky, but at the end of the day, who is the taxpayer here? There is a certain responsibility to the taxpayers of the County that should take precedent. Otherwise, I see a series of lawsuits being filed.

Taxpayers are not shareholders, and you can’t think of APS the same as a private corporation. Taxpayers are not the only priority. I support rolling out hybrid, but yours is a fundamentally incorrect question.

Exactly. And what would the law suits be for? You are only obligated to an education. Not an in-person education. And that quality of education is subjective. The only lawsuits that could possibly be created are for students for special needs. And you know that county is trying to cover there a$$es there.

Where does it state that remote learning qualifies as a standard education? Sadly, I think there will be many more students with special needs and behavioral issues the longer remote learning remains.

Where does it say that in person is the standard, especially since this date does have a public online school? That is the problem when people say that there will be lawsuits.

This is just a silly argument. Nobody expected anything but an in-person learning when raising a family in Arlington.

I don’t think many people expected the U.S. would so completely botch its response to a pandemic, but here we are. APS is one of the best public school districts in the country and that is largely due to its amazing faculty. I am surprised so many members of the community would prefer to treat their best resource like cannon fodder to secure a short term interest, rather than give them the armor they need (safety measures and vaccines) to continue to serve the county’s interests.

Amen. Amen. And the main thing that APS needs to deal with that it hasn’t is indoor lunch and testing, testing, testing. Entrance and surveillance. Check those boxes and it seems reasonable to send teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Safety measures will take place with masks, hand-washing and social distancing.. certainly enough to implement hybrid for the elementary students.

Elementary really isn’t the issue. They’re small and truly cohorted. The issue nobody seems willing to accept the simplest and safest option is send k-5 and self contained sped students (with PPE and a stipend , and tell 6-12 the data doesn’t support their return. It just doesn’t. Maybe the bottom 2-5% of 6-12, those who won’t pass or graduate, could come in 2x a week for remediation with teachers who are okay going in. A full k-12 return is a stupid idea and won’t work but nobody seems willing to say 6-12 can’t make it work and let elementary go forward.