Has Duran gone mad? (APS)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

Interesting.. not trying to be snarky, but at the end of the day, who is the taxpayer here? There is a certain responsibility to the taxpayers of the County that should take precedent. Otherwise, I see a series of lawsuits being filed.

Taxpayers are not shareholders, and you can’t think of APS the same as a private corporation. Taxpayers are not the only priority. I support rolling out hybrid, but yours is a fundamentally incorrect question.

Exactly. And what would the law suits be for? You are only obligated to an education. Not an in-person education. And that quality of education is subjective. The only lawsuits that could possibly be created are for students for special needs. And you know that county is trying to cover there a$$es there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

Interesting.. not trying to be snarky, but at the end of the day, who is the taxpayer here? There is a certain responsibility to the taxpayers of the County that should take precedent. Otherwise, I see a series of lawsuits being filed.

Taxpayers are not shareholders, and you can’t think of APS the same as a private corporation. Taxpayers are not the only priority. I support rolling out hybrid, but yours is a fundamentally incorrect question.

PP again. In addition, taxpayers are not uniform in their views on this (and plenty of APS staff live in Arlington and are taxpayers), so there isn’t one solution that clearly suits all taxpayers. So even if we accept your premise, that APS is obligated to follow the wishes of taxpayers, that still doesn’t give us an answer on what to do.

[Anonymous]

Teacher safety should be everyone’s priority, not just AEA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teacher safety should be everyone’s priority, not just AEA.

Safety isn’t a yes/no question, everyone has their own idea as to what’s safe enough. That’s what this debate is really about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please tell me why APS is having a harder time with re-opening compared to all our neighbors and daycares/private schools? Why is it less safe for Arlington??

Because fundamentally a private school relies on its tuition paying students. Students don't pay tuition for virtual school (especially when it is the school choosing to be virtual, not the edict of the government.) So they had to open to open in the future. The same goes for daycare. APS relies on the taxpayers. The teachers/ admin, etc get paid regardless of whether or not school is open. The incentives are completely different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please tell me why APS is having a harder time with re-opening compared to all our neighbors and daycares/private schools? Why is it less safe for Arlington??

Because fundamentally a private school relies on its tuition paying students. Students don't pay tuition for virtual school (especially when it is the school choosing to be virtual, not the edict of the government.) So they had to open to open in the future. The same goes for daycare. APS relies on the taxpayers. The teachers/ admin, etc get paid regardless of whether or not school is open. The incentives are completely different.

100%. Whenever posters bring up private schools, daycares, preschools, what's the difference? They are a business! They are driven by money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please tell me why APS is having a harder time with re-opening compared to all our neighbors and daycares/private schools? Why is it less safe for Arlington??

Because fundamentally a private school relies on its tuition paying students. Students don't pay tuition for virtual school (especially when it is the school choosing to be virtual, not the edict of the government.) So they had to open to open in the future. The same goes for daycare. APS relies on the taxpayers. The teachers/ admin, etc get paid regardless of whether or not school is open. The incentives are completely different.

DP. The other side to it is that private schools aren’t legally obligated to educate everyone. If you don’t the like decision your private school has made on virtual vs in-person learning, you can leave and go to public school. Public schools are different because they have an obligation to educate everyone, including students with special needs, medical needs, etc. They have a different obligation to make sure they provide the most appropriate solution for the population as a whole, balancing the needs of people whose needs may differ dramatically. That doesn’t inherently mean that APS shouldn’t implement hybrid, but it does mean they have to approach the question differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please tell me why APS is having a harder time with re-opening compared to all our neighbors and daycares/private schools? Why is it less safe for Arlington??

Because fundamentally a private school relies on its tuition paying students. Students don't pay tuition for virtual school (especially when it is the school choosing to be virtual, not the edict of the government.) So they had to open to open in the future. The same goes for daycare. APS relies on the taxpayers. The teachers/ admin, etc get paid regardless of whether or not school is open. The incentives are completely different.

100%. Whenever posters bring up private schools, daycares, preschools, what's the difference? They are a business! They are driven by money.

Also, apparently, they can set hard and fast mitigation rules that public schools seem to waver on for whatever reason. They can more easily eject the non compliant, and they can create a kind of school community bubble that isn’t possible when mingling with the unwashed masses. I am not trying to sound elitist, just being realistic. The families of public school kids, for economic reasons, are more likely to have to mingle with the community at large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please tell me why APS is having a harder time with re-opening compared to all our neighbors and daycares/private schools? Why is it less safe for Arlington??

Because fundamentally a private school relies on its tuition paying students. Students don't pay tuition for virtual school (especially when it is the school choosing to be virtual, not the edict of the government.) So they had to open to open in the future. The same goes for daycare. APS relies on the taxpayers. The teachers/ admin, etc get paid regardless of whether or not school is open. The incentives are completely different.

100%. Whenever posters bring up private schools, daycares, preschools, what's the difference? They are a business! They are driven by money.

Also, apparently, they can set hard and fast mitigation rules that public schools seem to waver on for whatever reason. They can more easily eject the non compliant, and they can create a kind of school community bubble that isn’t possible when mingling with the unwashed masses. I am not trying to sound elitist, just being realistic. The families of public school kids, for economic reasons, are more likely to have to mingle with the community at large.

Yes and no. The dynamics of kicking kids out are a bit more complicated than that for a private school. For instance, if a family is a consistent donor to the school, the HoS may be under a lot of pressure from the board not to kick the kid out despite infractions because then the donation dollars leave with them. You can buy yourself a good amount of accommodation in a private school if you’re willing to put up the $$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

Interesting.. not trying to be snarky, but at the end of the day, who is the taxpayer here? There is a certain responsibility to the taxpayers of the County that should take precedent. Otherwise, I see a series of lawsuits being filed.

Taxpayers are not shareholders, and you can’t think of APS the same as a private corporation. Taxpayers are not the only priority. I support rolling out hybrid, but yours is a fundamentally incorrect question.

Exactly. And what would the law suits be for? You are only obligated to an education. Not an in-person education. And that quality of education is subjective. The only lawsuits that could possibly be created are for students for special needs. And you know that county is trying to cover there a$$es there.

Where does it state that remote learning qualifies as a standard education? Sadly, I think there will be many more students with special needs and behavioral issues the longer remote learning remains.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

What are these "goals"? And how on earth has APS approached any "goal"??

Educate yourself and then we can discuss. I am not your research monkey and I’m not going to waste my time feeding you information just so you can scream the more socially appropriate version of “fake news.”

You're just making crap up so "fake news" sounds about right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

Interesting.. not trying to be snarky, but at the end of the day, who is the taxpayer here? There is a certain responsibility to the taxpayers of the County that should take precedent. Otherwise, I see a series of lawsuits being filed.

Taxpayers are not shareholders, and you can’t think of APS the same as a private corporation. Taxpayers are not the only priority. I support rolling out hybrid, but yours is a fundamentally incorrect question.

Exactly. And what would the law suits be for? You are only obligated to an education. Not an in-person education. And that quality of education is subjective. The only lawsuits that could possibly be created are for students for special needs. And you know that county is trying to cover there a$$es there.

Where does it state that remote learning qualifies as a standard education? Sadly, I think there will be many more students with special needs and behavioral issues the longer remote learning remains.

Where does it say that in person is the standard, especially since this date does have a public online school? That is the problem when people say that there will be lawsuits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

What are these "goals"? And how on earth has APS approached any "goal"??

Educate yourself and then we can discuss. I am not your research monkey and I’m not going to waste my time feeding you information just so you can scream the more socially appropriate version of “fake news.”

You're just making crap up so "fake news" sounds about right.

Thank you for proving my point. Glad I didn’t waste my time on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher safety should be everyone’s priority, not just AEA.

Safety isn’t a yes/no question, everyone has their own idea as to what’s safe enough. That’s what this debate is really about.

APS hasn't done much yet wrt to safety.

Where is the free testing for entrance & surveillance? Where are the air filters for every classroom? Where is the PPE?

Make some progress there and then we can talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEA’s ultimate position is that there should be no in-person learning until the pandemic is declared fully over, even if that’s through next school year and beyond. They dress it up with a bunch of conditions that would need to be met, but every time APS approaches those goals, they just shift their position. This isn’t surprising, because AEA isn’t an education association, it’s an unofficial teachers union, so students and education aren’t their priority, the teachers are. This is also why AEA (like APE) doesn’t get to set the agenda, because they’re only looking out for one set of stakeholders and disregard the rest. Duran’s job is to balance the needs of all of the stakeholders, which means we’re going to end up with a compromise position that isn’t what anyone wants. The compromise is gong to happen regardless of how loud people scream, so the various groups can either accept that and take a seat at the table to help guide what it will look like, or they can be left out of the discussion.

What are these "goals"? And how on earth has APS approached any "goal"??

Educate yourself and then we can discuss. I am not your research monkey and I’m not going to waste my time feeding you information just so you can scream the more socially appropriate version of “fake news.”

You're just making crap up so "fake news" sounds about right.

Thank you for proving my point. Glad I didn’t waste my time on you.

Guess you're glad to take a break from spinning lies.