New bike lane on Old Georgetown Rd in Bethesda

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

You are obviously arguing in bad faith. When was the last time you rode a bicycle, or even walked anywhere further than between your car and the door? Regardless, the facts are:

1. State, county, and municipal laws make it legal for people to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk everywhere in Montgomery County.
2. State law also makes it legal for people to ride a bicycle on the roadway, subject to conditions just like other operators of vehicles are subject to conditions.
3. State law requires people who are walking along the road to use the sidewalk, if there is one, or to walk on the side of the road in the direction of oncoming cars, if there is not. This reflects the auto industry's successful propaganda effort in the 1920s that roads should be for cars and people need to get out of the way of cars. Before that, roads were for everyone, just as the PP said.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

You are obviously arguing in bad faith. When was the last time you rode a bicycle, or even walked anywhere further than between your car and the door? Regardless, the facts are:

1. State, county, and municipal laws make it legal for people to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk everywhere in Montgomery County.
2. State law also makes it legal for people to ride a bicycle on the roadway, subject to conditions just like other operators of vehicles are subject to conditions.
3. State law requires people who are walking along the road to use the sidewalk, if there is one, or to walk on the side of the road in the direction of oncoming cars, if there is not. This reflects the auto industry's successful propaganda effort in the 1920s that roads should be for cars and people need to get out of the way of cars. Before that, roads were for everyone, just as the PP said.

Do some research before you post. Where do you live anyway?

It is 100% legal to ride on every sidewalk in Montgomery County, MD. Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

You are obviously arguing in bad faith. When was the last time you rode a bicycle, or even walked anywhere further than between your car and the door? Regardless, the facts are:

1. State, county, and municipal laws make it legal for people to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk everywhere in Montgomery County.
2. State law also makes it legal for people to ride a bicycle on the roadway, subject to conditions just like other operators of vehicles are subject to conditions.
3. State law requires people who are walking along the road to use the sidewalk, if there is one, or to walk on the side of the road in the direction of oncoming cars, if there is not. This reflects the auto industry's successful propaganda effort in the 1920s that roads should be for cars and people need to get out of the way of cars. Before that, roads were for everyone, just as the PP said.

Do some research before you post. Where do you live anyway?

It is 100% legal to ride on every sidewalk in Montgomery County, MD. Good grief.

Correct.

[Anonymous]

Actually, it’s not legal in the City of Gaithersburg. But it is in the non-incorporated areas of the county, which includes OGR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, it’s not legal in the City of Gaithersburg. But it is in the non-incorporated areas of the county, which includes OGR.

It has been legal in the City of Gaithersburg since 2017.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

Correct. Bike lanes are exclusively for bikes- not cars or pedestrians. . Other lanes are for bikes OR cars. Sidewalks are for bikes OR pedestrians. Yes, you e grasped the truth, Captain Obvious.

If you rode a bike, you’d discover the world is your oyster. Why don’t you just give up and join us?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

Correct. Bike lanes are exclusively for bikes- not cars or pedestrians. . Other lanes are for bikes OR cars. Sidewalks are for bikes OR pedestrians. Yes, you e grasped the truth, Captain Obvious.

If you rode a bike, you’d discover the world is your oyster. Why don’t you just give up and join us?

So what space can pedestrians use to feel safe from bikes and cars?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

Correct. Bike lanes are exclusively for bikes- not cars or pedestrians. . Other lanes are for bikes OR cars. Sidewalks are for bikes OR pedestrians. Yes, you e grasped the truth, Captain Obvious.

If you rode a bike, you’d discover the world is your oyster. Why don’t you just give up and join us?

So what space can pedestrians use to feel safe from bikes and cars?

Sidewalks next to protected bike lanes. For example, the sidewalks on Old Georgetown Road, which are now much safer for pedestrians with respect to cars, and bicyclists are also much less likely to use the sidewalks now that there are the bike lanes. If you're concerned about pedestrians, you should push for protected bike lanes every chance you get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

Correct. Bike lanes are exclusively for bikes- not cars or pedestrians. . Other lanes are for bikes OR cars. Sidewalks are for bikes OR pedestrians. Yes, you e grasped the truth, Captain Obvious.

If you rode a bike, you’d discover the world is your oyster. Why don’t you just give up and join us?

So what space can pedestrians use to feel safe from bikes and cars?

Sidewalks next to protected bike lanes. For example, the sidewalks on Old Georgetown Road, which are now much safer for pedestrians with respect to cars, and bicyclists are also much less likely to use the sidewalks now that there are the bike lanes. If you're concerned about pedestrians, you should push for protected bike lanes every chance you get.

But the cyclists can ride on those too. Tell me what space is there exclusively for pedestrians?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

Correct. Bike lanes are exclusively for bikes- not cars or pedestrians. . Other lanes are for bikes OR cars. Sidewalks are for bikes OR pedestrians. Yes, you e grasped the truth, Captain Obvious.

If you rode a bike, you’d discover the world is your oyster. Why don’t you just give up and join us?

So what space can pedestrians use to feel safe from bikes and cars?

Sidewalks next to protected bike lanes. For example, the sidewalks on Old Georgetown Road, which are now much safer for pedestrians with respect to cars, and bicyclists are also much less likely to use the sidewalks now that there are the bike lanes. If you're concerned about pedestrians, you should push for protected bike lanes every chance you get.

But the cyclists can ride on those too. Tell me what space is there exclusively for pedestrians?

What problem are you trying to solve?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

Correct. Bike lanes are exclusively for bikes- not cars or pedestrians. . Other lanes are for bikes OR cars. Sidewalks are for bikes OR pedestrians. Yes, you e grasped the truth, Captain Obvious.

If you rode a bike, you’d discover the world is your oyster. Why don’t you just give up and join us?

So what space can pedestrians use to feel safe from bikes and cars?

Sidewalks next to protected bike lanes. For example, the sidewalks on Old Georgetown Road, which are now much safer for pedestrians with respect to cars, and bicyclists are also much less likely to use the sidewalks now that there are the bike lanes. If you're concerned about pedestrians, you should push for protected bike lanes every chance you get.

But the cyclists can ride on those too. Tell me what space is there exclusively for pedestrians?

What problem are you trying to solve?

There is no space that pedestrians have exclusive access to where they can be if they feel unsafe around bicycles. That’s the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

Correct. Bike lanes are exclusively for bikes- not cars or pedestrians. . Other lanes are for bikes OR cars. Sidewalks are for bikes OR pedestrians. Yes, you e grasped the truth, Captain Obvious.

If you rode a bike, you’d discover the world is your oyster. Why don’t you just give up and join us?

So what space can pedestrians use to feel safe from bikes and cars?

Sidewalks next to protected bike lanes. For example, the sidewalks on Old Georgetown Road, which are now much safer for pedestrians with respect to cars, and bicyclists are also much less likely to use the sidewalks now that there are the bike lanes. If you're concerned about pedestrians, you should push for protected bike lanes every chance you get.

But the cyclists can ride on those too. Tell me what space is there exclusively for pedestrians?

What problem are you trying to solve?

There is no space that pedestrians have exclusive access to where they can be if they feel unsafe around bicycles. That’s the problem.

Agree! Bicyclists are hypocrites. They advocate for their own safety and then have no qualms about how they treat pedestrians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

Correct. Bike lanes are exclusively for bikes- not cars or pedestrians. . Other lanes are for bikes OR cars. Sidewalks are for bikes OR pedestrians. Yes, you e grasped the truth, Captain Obvious.

If you rode a bike, you’d discover the world is your oyster. Why don’t you just give up and join us?

So what space can pedestrians use to feel safe from bikes and cars?

Sidewalks next to protected bike lanes. For example, the sidewalks on Old Georgetown Road, which are now much safer for pedestrians with respect to cars, and bicyclists are also much less likely to use the sidewalks now that there are the bike lanes. If you're concerned about pedestrians, you should push for protected bike lanes every chance you get.

But the cyclists can ride on those too. Tell me what space is there exclusively for pedestrians?

What problem are you trying to solve?

There is no space that pedestrians have exclusive access to where they can be if they feel unsafe around bicycles. That’s the problem.

How about space that pedestrians can use if they feel unsafe around cars? That's a much bigger problem. In a typical year in Montgomery County, 0 pedestrians are injured (0 fatally) in collisions with bicyclists, and 400 pedestrians are injured (10-15 fatally) in collisions with drivers. Including pedestrians who were on the sidewalk.

Of course you have every right to focus on anything you want to, but pedestrian safety involves protection from cars, not bicycles. Even for people who have an irrational phobia about bicycles and/or people who are riding bicycles

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

Correct. Bike lanes are exclusively for bikes- not cars or pedestrians. . Other lanes are for bikes OR cars. Sidewalks are for bikes OR pedestrians. Yes, you e grasped the truth, Captain Obvious.

If you rode a bike, you’d discover the world is your oyster. Why don’t you just give up and join us?

So what space can pedestrians use to feel safe from bikes and cars?

Sidewalks next to protected bike lanes. For example, the sidewalks on Old Georgetown Road, which are now much safer for pedestrians with respect to cars, and bicyclists are also much less likely to use the sidewalks now that there are the bike lanes. If you're concerned about pedestrians, you should push for protected bike lanes every chance you get.

But the cyclists can ride on those too. Tell me what space is there exclusively for pedestrians?

What problem are you trying to solve?

There is no space that pedestrians have exclusive access to where they can be if they feel unsafe around bicycles. That’s the problem.

Agree! Bicyclists are hypocrites. They advocate for their own safety and then have no qualms about how they treat pedestrians.

You know that "everyone is a pedestrian" messaging that shows up in PSAs? It applies to people who ride bicycles, just as much as people who drive. There is no us/them when it comes to bicyclists, or pedestrians, or drivers. All of us are pedestrians. Many of us are also drivers. Many of us are also bicyclists.

And then there's the issue of this is literally what the law says.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen HS kids we know riding (we assume) to WJ in the morning. I feel safer knowing they are in the bike lane.

Maybe they are riding their bikes now because thanks to these bike lanes their school bus is stuck in traffic and they don’t want to be late for school.

Yes, bikes can be a great, speedy, and efficient transportation option. Active transportation in the morning before school also helps with learning. I'm really glad the WJ kids have a safe option for biking along Old Georgetown to school now. Plenty of WJ kids bike to school and from school, and I know of several who have been hit in the past. The bike lanes and safe sidewalks will also be great when the Woodward building is done and the Northwood kids come for 2 years, and then later when Woodward itself opens, of course.

Woodward is being opened for the primary purpose to alleviate overcrowding in the DCC. It is entirely possible that the boundary would only extend to Garrett Park ES. As a result, although the boundary has not yet been set, there will likely be few if any kids within the “walkshed” or even in a location where they can take advantage of these bike lanes.

As you are also not aware, Northwood is located in Silver Spring so the entire student body will arrive via school bus. The Woodward site has a massive setback with a parking lot and bus staging area in front, much to the chagrin of the former Planning Board chair.

The entire Northwood student body will be offered bus transportation, which is not at all the same as the entire student body will arrive via school bus, or leave via school bus. As you may know, high school students often go places (school, the Giant shopping center, the Wildwood shopping center, Pike and Rose, downtown Bethesda) and do things on their own, and they often use their own feet, or scooters, or bikes, or public buses, to do it. WJ kids do it, Northwood students will too, and so will Woodward students.

It's true that MCPS does like to put all of the car and bus stuff in front, unfortunately given that it's 2023 and not 1960.

I guess there are two things that don’t make sense. First, the sidewalk is not being nor has been widened. I am told repeatedly that bike lanes are for bicycles and if you stand in one as a pedestrian and get hit it’s your own fault (which contradicts what bicyclists say about expectations for cars in roads but that’s another matter). Second, how are the Northwood students going to get their bikes to school to use the bike lanes?

Let me add a third. How have WJ students this far been able to survive and not get hit by cars on Old Georgetown or Democracy, two “stroads” that bound the school without the bike lanes? I’ve lived here for 20 years and that’s never happened once.

As far as I know, no WJ student has been hit and killed, at least not in recent years, but WJ students have certainly been hit and injured on those roads. There's also the 13-year-old who was hit and and almost killed. Given her age, she was probably in middle school, not high school.

When and where were these students hit by cars?

The 13-year-old was hit crossing the on-ramp to the inner loop, just south of the Beltway. https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=31844

You claimed that WJ students were hit. While the incident is unfortunate, that is not a WJ student and it was not during school hours.

I'm not claiming. It's a fact. Why do you think there are those two newish signals on Democracy at WJ? The police don't put out a press release every time there's a car crash. It's not uncommon at all for students all over the county to get hit on their way to school or coming back from school. Just because you personally don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Those “newish signals” are HAWK signals and they were installed a decade ago. You cannot seem to get your story straight.

Yes, they're HAWK signals. No, they weren't installed a decade ago.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Friedson/status/1286732312521179138

So you agree that bike lanes are not the appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?

Between the Gish Gallop and the goalpost-moving, you're getting a lot of exercise.

Nobody has said bike lanes are not an appropriate policy response to pedestrian safety. Quite the opposite: they are a well-known strategy, endorsed by the Federal Highway Administration, for making streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures

Changing goalposts you say? Trying to claim that a bike lane is really for pedestrians is pretty bottom barrel. I also appreciate the need for the last word. Cheers.

DP

Why shouldn’t pedestrians be allowed to use a bike lane?

Before cars, everyone used the street. It doesn’t just belong to cars. Or cyclists.

Cyclists believe that bike lanes should be a space exclusively for them. But that they should also be able to use the sidewalk or roadway whenever they want as well.

Correct. Bike lanes are exclusively for bikes- not cars or pedestrians. . Other lanes are for bikes OR cars. Sidewalks are for bikes OR pedestrians. Yes, you e grasped the truth, Captain Obvious.

If you rode a bike, you’d discover the world is your oyster. Why don’t you just give up and join us?

So what space can pedestrians use to feel safe from bikes and cars?

Sidewalks next to protected bike lanes. For example, the sidewalks on Old Georgetown Road, which are now much safer for pedestrians with respect to cars, and bicyclists are also much less likely to use the sidewalks now that there are the bike lanes. If you're concerned about pedestrians, you should push for protected bike lanes every chance you get.

But the cyclists can ride on those too. Tell me what space is there exclusively for pedestrians?

What problem are you trying to solve?

There is no space that pedestrians have exclusive access to where they can be if they feel unsafe around bicycles. That’s the problem.

How about space that pedestrians can use if they feel unsafe around cars? That's a much bigger problem. In a typical year in Montgomery County, 0 pedestrians are injured (0 fatally) in collisions with bicyclists, and 400 pedestrians are injured (10-15 fatally) in collisions with drivers. Including pedestrians who were on the sidewalk.

Of course you have every right to focus on anything you want to, but pedestrian safety involves protection from cars, not bicycles. Even for people who have an irrational phobia about bicycles and/or people who are riding bicycles

There is specific and delineated space between cars and pedestrians. There are many circumstances where pedestrians are unsafe around bicycles. Why is there no exclusive space for the safety of pedestrians?