College Football--Big Ten Expansion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://research.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/VOR_FY22.pdf

Michigan receives over $1,000,000,000 yearly in funding from sources other than the NIH. That’s still more than Berkeley. Internally funded research is also over $500,000,000.

Michigan and Berkeley would consider each other academic peers but not peers with places like Minnesota, Purdue, or Michigan State. I think the point is more Berkeley would clearly be in the top few academic schools in the B1G and not close to the bottom as someone was trying to hint at with some strange funding stats. If it is the #1 or #3 overall public research university in the country, that is splitting hairs.

I agree. The Big Ten would want Berkeley because of its academics and prestige. However, Berkeley would not be one, two, or three in the conference as far research $$$ totals. The facts are indisputable.

Correct.

Based on the National Science Foundation R&D Expenditures report, UCal-Berkeley would rank eleventh (#11) among the Big Ten Conference schools, yet it would definitely be among the top 5 schools for academics.

The Big Ten Conference and its media partners (Fox, NBC, & CBS and BTN) were primarily assessing the added value of football programs among other factors during its most recent round of expansion.

Across the board, it would be at the top. For USNWR graduate program top 10 rankings, Berkeley and Michigan are tied for 1st with 59 top 10 (Stanford is 3rd with 56). But Berkeley's average ranking is higher than Michigan and it achieves its first place rank without having a medical school. As noted, UC San Francisco is rated separately.

Wow ! Clearly, you do not understand or appreciate the culture of the Big Ten Conference member schools.

Okay. Let's assume that UCal-Berkeley is the best school in the universe and ranked at the top for everything except value of its football program to the Big Ten Conference and its broadcast affiliates--What would change ?

The Ivy League is an athletic conference as well.

Stanford and Cal dropping big-time football and joining the Ivy League would be incredible! They'd never actually agree to join a crappy league like the Ivy but it is fun to think about for Stanford from my perspective.

Interesting post.

Decades ago (about 1980), the Ivy League targeted Northwestern University and the US Military Academy at West Point for membership. Northwestern stopped the conversation due to the travel burden that would be placed upon its athletes & athletic teams.

There are many stories about Ivy League expansion, but most are likely not true. It would involve 1) an actual invitation and 2) the target school being willing to forego athletic scholarships.

Conferences don't give invitations until it is basically a done deal.
The scholarship issue would be the major one that Stanford wouldn't budge on (other than the $$ they'll still get somewhere). The travel would also be crazy. Stanford prides itself on being able to compete at the highest levels of everything they do, so having a bunch of second-rate teams wouldn't be something they'd be willing to do. That the current Ivy League members are okay with making so many concessions to athletics while not being very good, especially in the most watched sports, has always been strange to me. My Princeton friends have been more excited about a few NCAA basketball tournament wins over decades than Stanford fans were after making back to back Rose Bowls 10 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
remember the arrogant ACC attitude when UMD defected. Some people even said that Louisville was a more valuable member. Then Duke said they would never play UMD again. They all got together in a huge meeting and developed / signed the ironclad GOR and smugly waxed secure and superior.

I remember thinking “ What’s FSU doing signing that thing? Are they stupid or do they know something that is secret and not totally obvious?”

Well it turns out that FSU must be run by stupid administrators and that doesn’t say much for the education quality. Everybody else wouldn’t definitely have a landing spot due to a number of factors so they have some excuses.

At any rate the loss of its most valuable member really did a number on the ACC. I feel bad for those schools.

What was UMD's main reason for defecting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
remember the arrogant ACC attitude when UMD defected. Some people even said that Louisville was a more valuable member. Then Duke said they would never play UMD again. They all got together in a huge meeting and developed / signed the ironclad GOR and smugly waxed secure and superior.

I remember thinking “ What’s FSU doing signing that thing? Are they stupid or do they know something that is secret and not totally obvious?”

Well it turns out that FSU must be run by stupid administrators and that doesn’t say much for the education quality. Everybody else wouldn’t definitely have a landing spot due to a number of factors so they have some excuses.

At any rate the loss of its most valuable member really did a number on the ACC. I feel bad for those schools.

There was an arrogance about the ACC then that has clearly faded. Which ACC schools does the SEC actually want?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
remember the arrogant ACC attitude when UMD defected. Some people even said that Louisville was a more valuable member. Then Duke said they would never play UMD again. They all got together in a huge meeting and developed / signed the ironclad GOR and smugly waxed secure and superior.

I remember thinking “ What’s FSU doing signing that thing? Are they stupid or do they know something that is secret and not totally obvious?”

Well it turns out that FSU must be run by stupid administrators and that doesn’t say much for the education quality. Everybody else wouldn’t definitely have a landing spot due to a number of factors so they have some excuses.

At any rate the loss of its most valuable member really did a number on the ACC. I feel bad for those schools.

What was UMD's main reason for defecting?

They got an invitation and the numbers were mind blowing .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
remember the arrogant ACC attitude when UMD defected. Some people even said that Louisville was a more valuable member. Then Duke said they would never play UMD again. They all got together in a huge meeting and developed / signed the ironclad GOR and smugly waxed secure and superior.

I remember thinking “ What’s FSU doing signing that thing? Are they stupid or do they know something that is secret and not totally obvious?”

Well it turns out that FSU must be run by stupid administrators and that doesn’t say much for the education quality. Everybody else wouldn’t definitely have a landing spot due to a number of factors so they have some excuses.

At any rate the loss of its most valuable member really did a number on the ACC. I feel bad for those schools.

What was UMD's main reason for defecting?

They got an invitation and the numbers were mind blowing .

Yes after adding UMD and Rutgers the media contract for the B1G doubled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
remember the arrogant ACC attitude when UMD defected. Some people even said that Louisville was a more valuable member. Then Duke said they would never play UMD again. They all got together in a huge meeting and developed / signed the ironclad GOR and smugly waxed secure and superior.

I remember thinking “ What’s FSU doing signing that thing? Are they stupid or do they know something that is secret and not totally obvious?”

Well it turns out that FSU must be run by stupid administrators and that doesn’t say much for the education quality. Everybody else wouldn’t definitely have a landing spot due to a number of factors so they have some excuses.

At any rate the loss of its most valuable member really did a number on the ACC. I feel bad for those schools.

What was UMD's main reason for defecting?

They got an invitation and the numbers were mind blowing .

Yes after adding UMD and Rutgers the media contract for the B1G doubled.

Rutgers and USC doubled the value now UCLA / USC (LA market) increases it 65 percent to 100 million per school when they join. Washington and Oregon only get 30 million because they actually lower the payment per school. The big money schools are UMD, Rutgers, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Northwestern, UCLA, USC.

[Anonymous]

These announcements should at least be a little more honest:
"The University of Maryland supports the Big Ten Conference's announcement of the admission of the University of Oregon and University of Washington to the conference. Oregon and Washington have rich academic and athletic histories that align with our Big Ten colleagues.

Oregon and Washington are exemplary additions to the Big Ten. Both are members of the AAU and share a commitment to successful academic programs..."

Joining to play sports is almost an afterthought or footnote

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These announcements should at least be a little more honest:
"The University of Maryland supports the Big Ten Conference's announcement of the admission of the University of Oregon and University of Washington to the conference. Oregon and Washington have rich academic and athletic histories that align with our Big Ten colleagues.

Oregon and Washington are exemplary additions to the Big Ten. Both are members of the AAU and share a commitment to successful academic programs..."

Joining to play sports is almost an afterthought or footnote

Seriously UMD and Oregon need to immediately push for the Nike - UnderArmour rivalry game every year. It’s coast against coast and quirky it would be a cool event. Of course over the years it would just become a tradition that’s cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These announcements should at least be a little more honest:
"The University of Maryland supports the Big Ten Conference's announcement of the admission of the University of Oregon and University of Washington to the conference. Oregon and Washington have rich academic and athletic histories that align with our Big Ten colleagues.

Oregon and Washington are exemplary additions to the Big Ten. Both are members of the AAU and share a commitment to successful academic programs..."

Joining to play sports is almost an afterthought or footnote

Seriously UMD and Oregon need to immediately push for the Nike - UnderArmour rivalry game every year. It’s coast against coast and quirky it would be a cool event. Of course over the years it would just become a tradition that’s cool.

The uniform designers at the two companies would love it too.

[Anonymous]

I hope the executives from the Big 10 Network are monitoring this discussion, so they can see that what the people really want are breakdowns on NSF funding data, debates about USNWR GRADUATE rankings, and a tiny pinch of anti-Catholicism for flavor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://research.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/VOR_FY22.pdf

Michigan receives over $1,000,000,000 yearly in funding from sources other than the NIH. That’s still more than Berkeley. Internally funded research is also over $500,000,000.

Michigan and Berkeley would consider each other academic peers but not peers with places like Minnesota, Purdue, or Michigan State. I think the point is more Berkeley would clearly be in the top few academic schools in the B1G and not close to the bottom as someone was trying to hint at with some strange funding stats. If it is the #1 or #3 overall public research university in the country, that is splitting hairs.

I agree. The Big Ten would want Berkeley because of its academics and prestige. However, Berkeley would not be one, two, or three in the conference as far research $$$ totals. The facts are indisputable.

Correct.

Based on the National Science Foundation R&D Expenditures report, UCal-Berkeley would rank eleventh (#11) among the Big Ten Conference schools, yet it would definitely be among the top 5 schools for academics.

The Big Ten Conference and its media partners (Fox, NBC, & CBS and BTN) were primarily assessing the added value of football programs among other factors during its most recent round of expansion.

Across the board, it would be at the top. For USNWR graduate program top 10 rankings, Berkeley and Michigan are tied for 1st with 59 top 10 (Stanford is 3rd with 56). But Berkeley's average ranking is higher than Michigan and it achieves its first place rank without having a medical school. As noted, UC San Francisco is rated separately.

Wow ! Clearly, you do not understand or appreciate the culture of the Big Ten Conference member schools.

Okay. Let's assume that UCal-Berkeley is the best school in the universe and ranked at the top for everything except value of its football program to the Big Ten Conference and its broadcast affiliates--What would change ?

The Ivy League is an athletic conference as well.

Stanford and Cal dropping big-time football and joining the Ivy League would be incredible! They'd never actually agree to join a crappy league like the Ivy but it is fun to think about for Stanford from my perspective.

Interesting post.

Decades ago (about 1980), the Ivy League targeted Northwestern University and the US Military Academy at West Point for membership. Northwestern stopped the conversation due to the travel burden that would be placed upon its athletes & athletic teams.

There are many stories about Ivy League expansion, but most are likely not true. It would involve 1) an actual invitation and 2) the target school being willing to forego athletic scholarships.

And there are many ready to criticize, but too lazy to do a modest google search.

[Anonymous]

Try googling the Wall Street Journal article "Northwestern, The Would Be Ivy".

Took me less than 5 seconds.

[Anonymous]

Actually:

Northwestern University, The Would Be Ivy

wsj.com

Updated October 4, 2013

[Anonymous]

New York Times article January 10, 1982

Ivy League Considers Adding 2 Schools

hint: Northwestern & Army

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New York Times article January 10, 1982

Ivy League Considers Adding 2 Schools

hint: Northwestern & Army

The NYT articles mentions 3 schools: Northwestern, Army, & Navy

There is another article from the early 1980s which quotes Northwestern officials regarding considering the offer to open discussions. The AD decided that the travel for NU would be too much of a burden. (I don't have time to search for this article.)