Why are people more sympathetic to Lindsay Clancy than Andrea Yates? (Child death mentioned)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those arguing that she was not mentally ill but instead is a stone cold Casey Anthony type have a huge mountain of circumstantial evidence to get over to get a jury there.

Can we recall a stone cold Casey Anthony type who—totally coincidentally and in no way related to her actions in the subsequent crimes—had also been in a 5-day IOP and on 15 different psychiatric meds since September but been entirely healed, cured, with no remaining trace of the level of thought derangement that leads to that level of those medications and somewhat frantic toggling among options to identify what worked, only 4 months before?

No, we cannot.

I can't even follow your run-on-sentence.

It’s long, but not a run-on. No one is as crazy she was in month 1 and fully sane, but with a new bent for extreme evildoing, in Month 4. That dog just don’t hunt.

She can have mental illness and still be capable of committing murder. Not guilty by reason of insanity is a very specific and high bar and it does not apply to anyone with a mental illness. When she came to in the hospital, she didn't ask what happened. She knew - and all she wanted to know was if she needed a lawyer. Doesn't sound like a mother who is shocked that her kids are dead and she is the one who did it.

That’s true and may well be the prosecution’s argument. It doesn’t make it the God’s honest truth of what happened. We don’t know, but there are some
significant signals that this woman was pretty severely ill and was regarded that way by those closest to her. Mom saying it’s “good to see her looking so good”—that is not a thing that is commonly said about someone who was previously in the pink of good health. Same with husband jumping to “what did you do?” She’s absolutely correct that she needs an attorney, and a good one.

As attractive as it may be to frame her asking that question as evidence of cold-bloodedness, the reality is that psychosis does not invalidate all of one’s intelligence or executive functions.

That's pretty much the definition of psychosis.

No, it really is not. Psychosis is a degree of disconnection from reality, but it doesn’t always show up in a person who is also looking stuporous and seeming incapable of self-care. The DSM definition is the presence of one out of four kinds of thought disturbance. Hallucinations and delusions are two of them. You can have either of these without things like speech, self-care, ability to plan a dinner order necessarily being affected.

There is no evidence she experienced any of that. In fact neither she nor her husband nor any of her doctors had ever heard or used the word psyschosis until the shink hired by her lawyer after the murders used it. Prosecution has access to all of her medical records and have interviewed the husband extensively.

[Anonymous]

Frankly, it is alarming how little people posting here seem to understand about psychosis, which is not a medically rare phenomenon.

[Anonymous]

If she knew her kids were dead, why wasn’t her next question, “what happened to them”? Why was the next question “do I need a lawyer?” She knew exactly what she did and she was well aware of what she was doing, when she was doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those arguing that she was not mentally ill but instead is a stone cold Casey Anthony type have a huge mountain of circumstantial evidence to get over to get a jury there.

Can we recall a stone cold Casey Anthony type who—totally coincidentally and in no way related to her actions in the subsequent crimes—had also been in a 5-day IOP and on 15 different psychiatric meds since September but been entirely healed, cured, with no remaining trace of the level of thought derangement that leads to that level of those medications and somewhat frantic toggling among options to identify what worked, only 4 months before?

No, we cannot.

I can't even follow your run-on-sentence.

It’s long, but not a run-on. No one is as crazy she was in month 1 and fully sane, but with a new bent for extreme evildoing, in Month 4. That dog just don’t hunt.

She can have mental illness and still be capable of committing murder. Not guilty by reason of insanity is a very specific and high bar and it does not apply to anyone with a mental illness. When she came to in the hospital, she didn't ask what happened. She knew - and all she wanted to know was if she needed a lawyer. Doesn't sound like a mother who is shocked that her kids are dead and she is the one who did it.

We don’t actually know this. If you watch the actual arraignment they say it was ONE of the first things she asked, and specifically says at this point she already knew her children had been murdered it does not say whether they told her that. Easily could have been they told her that and then she asked. Not that she woke up already knowing and immediately asked. People are really construing what was said.

It is really bizarre to me that people are trying to argue this woman wasn’t ill and was plotting this evil murder of her children when we have evidence of an in-patient hospitalization (the bar is high for that, more women than you might think have suicidal ideation and some intrusive thoughts about harming their child, it is actually not immediate grounds for hospitalization). If you’re going to make arguments based on things like I’m assuming she google mapped because she was plotting this, you could also argue why was she going to such lengths to get pediatric miralax? That doesn’t match up. Her mother said it was good to see her looking good a few days before, which means she was NOT GOOD very recently.

The prosecution was making a needed case to keep her in custody, as I think everyone agrees is appropriate. Everyone is taking small amounts of information and somehow jumping to its more likely this woman who was being treated for postpartum depression with a recent hospitalization and per friends and family a loving mom was actually secretly purely evil, plotting to murder her children.

It is so so much more likely that she was having postpartum mental illness, was doing better, and something happened while he was gone that made her have a “break” if you will and she was flooded.

She choked her kids with exercise bands, one at a time, for several minutes each.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those arguing that she was not mentally ill but instead is a stone cold Casey Anthony type have a huge mountain of circumstantial evidence to get over to get a jury there.

Can we recall a stone cold Casey Anthony type who—totally coincidentally and in no way related to her actions in the subsequent crimes—had also been in a 5-day IOP and on 15 different psychiatric meds since September but been entirely healed, cured, with no remaining trace of the level of thought derangement that leads to that level of those medications and somewhat frantic toggling among options to identify what worked, only 4 months before?

No, we cannot.

I can't even follow your run-on-sentence.

It’s long, but not a run-on. No one is as crazy she was in month 1 and fully sane, but with a new bent for extreme evildoing, in Month 4. That dog just don’t hunt.

She can have mental illness and still be capable of committing murder. Not guilty by reason of insanity is a very specific and high bar and it does not apply to anyone with a mental illness. When she came to in the hospital, she didn't ask what happened. She knew - and all she wanted to know was if she needed a lawyer. Doesn't sound like a mother who is shocked that her kids are dead and she is the one who did it.

That’s true and may well be the prosecution’s argument. It doesn’t make it the God’s honest truth of what happened. We don’t know, but there are some
significant signals that this woman was pretty severely ill and was regarded that way by those closest to her. Mom saying it’s “good to see her looking so good”—that is not a thing that is commonly said about someone who was previously in the pink of good health. Same with husband jumping to “what did you do?” She’s absolutely correct that she needs an attorney, and a good one.

As attractive as it may be to frame her asking that question as evidence of cold-bloodedness, the reality is that psychosis does not invalidate all of one’s intelligence or executive functions.

That's pretty much the definition of psychosis.

No, it really is not. Psychosis is a degree of disconnection from reality, but it doesn’t always show up in a person who is also looking stuporous and seeming incapable of self-care. The DSM definition is the presence of one out of four kinds of thought disturbance. Hallucinations and delusions are two of them. You can have either of these without things like speech, self-care, ability to plan a dinner order necessarily being affected.

There is no evidence she experienced any of that. In fact neither she nor her husband nor any of her doctors had ever heard or used the word psyschosis until the shink hired by her lawyer after the murders used it. Prosecution has access to all of her medical records and have interviewed the husband extensively.

Having not been identified as psychotic in the past is an element, but it’s not the whole story. A person with severe PPD could experience a psychotic break as another step on that continuum of illness. In fact, it is far likelier—as a purely statistical matter—than encountering the stone cold psychopath that some here seem to be arguing that she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, it is alarming how little people posting here seem to understand about psychosis, which is not a medically rare phenomenon.

Not even her own attorney is alleging psychosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If she knew her kids were dead, why wasn’t her next question, “what happened to them”? Why was the next question “do I need a lawyer?” She knew exactly what she did and she was well aware of what she was doing, when she was doing it.

Psychosis also doesn’t necessarily impair memory.

The denial in this thread about this symptom is really astounding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those arguing that she was not mentally ill but instead is a stone cold Casey Anthony type have a huge mountain of circumstantial evidence to get over to get a jury there.

Can we recall a stone cold Casey Anthony type who—totally coincidentally and in no way related to her actions in the subsequent crimes—had also been in a 5-day IOP and on 15 different psychiatric meds since September but been entirely healed, cured, with no remaining trace of the level of thought derangement that leads to that level of those medications and somewhat frantic toggling among options to identify what worked, only 4 months before?

No, we cannot.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, it is alarming how little people posting here seem to understand about psychosis, which is not a medically rare phenomenon.

Not even her own attorney is alleging psychosis.

We don’t know what her attorney will ultimately allege; any sensible defense attorney in this situation is going to play cards close to vest until they see what the prosecution can prove. There is no shot at getting her out of custody (nor should there be), and there is no PR victory to be had at this stage in a case of filicide, so they’re smart to say relatively little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When emergency medical technicians arrived, Patrick went to look for his kids, and can be heard on the 911 call entering the home and the basement and then "screaming in agony and shock" as he found his children, prosecutors say. Cora and Callan were on the floor in the den area of the finished basement, and Dawson was alone on the floor in his father's home office. "Each child still had the exercise band used to strangle them tied around their necks when their father found them," prosecutors said. Patrick removed the bands and could be heard begging his children to breathe. He continued to scream uncontrollably, "She killed the kids."


this is just sick, i truly truly hope she rots

Well he forgave her. So you do you. He knows she was not herself and in the throes of mental illness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she knew her kids were dead, why wasn’t her next question, “what happened to them”? Why was the next question “do I need a lawyer?” She knew exactly what she did and she was well aware of what she was doing, when she was doing it.

Psychosis also doesn’t necessarily impair memory.

The denial in this thread about this symptom is really astounding.

Sounds to me like psychosis is pretty damn impossible to prove.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When emergency medical technicians arrived, Patrick went to look for his kids, and can be heard on the 911 call entering the home and the basement and then "screaming in agony and shock" as he found his children, prosecutors say. Cora and Callan were on the floor in the den area of the finished basement, and Dawson was alone on the floor in his father's home office. "Each child still had the exercise band used to strangle them tied around their necks when their father found them," prosecutors said. Patrick removed the bands and could be heard begging his children to breathe. He continued to scream uncontrollably, "She killed the kids."


this is just sick, i truly truly hope she rots

Well he forgave her. So you do you. He knows she was not herself and in the throes of mental illness.

He SAYS he forgave her. We have no idea how he actually feels. He had 3 children and now he doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those arguing that she was not mentally ill but instead is a stone cold Casey Anthony type have a huge mountain of circumstantial evidence to get over to get a jury there.

Can we recall a stone cold Casey Anthony type who—totally coincidentally and in no way related to her actions in the subsequent crimes—had also been in a 5-day IOP and on 15 different psychiatric meds since September but been entirely healed, cured, with no remaining trace of the level of thought derangement that leads to that level of those medications and somewhat frantic toggling among options to identify what worked, only 4 months before?

No, we cannot.

I can't even follow your run-on-sentence.

It’s long, but not a run-on. No one is as crazy she was in month 1 and fully sane, but with a new bent for extreme evildoing, in Month 4. That dog just don’t hunt.

She can have mental illness and still be capable of committing murder. Not guilty by reason of insanity is a very specific and high bar and it does not apply to anyone with a mental illness. When she came to in the hospital, she didn't ask what happened. She knew - and all she wanted to know was if she needed a lawyer. Doesn't sound like a mother who is shocked that her kids are dead and she is the one who did it.

That’s true and may well be the prosecution’s argument. It doesn’t make it the God’s honest truth of what happened. We don’t know, but there are some
significant signals that this woman was pretty severely ill and was regarded that way by those closest to her. Mom saying it’s “good to see her looking so good”—that is not a thing that is commonly said about someone who was previously in the pink of good health. Same with husband jumping to “what did you do?” She’s absolutely correct that she needs an attorney, and a good one.

As attractive as it may be to frame her asking that question as evidence of cold-bloodedness, the reality is that psychosis does not invalidate all of one’s intelligence or executive functions.

That's pretty much the definition of psychosis.

No, it really is not. Psychosis is a degree of disconnection from reality, but it doesn’t always show up in a person who is also looking stuporous and seeming incapable of self-care. The DSM definition is the presence of one out of four kinds of thought disturbance. Hallucinations and delusions are two of them. You can have either of these without things like speech, self-care, ability to plan a dinner order necessarily being affected.

There is no evidence she experienced any of that. In fact neither she nor her husband nor any of her doctors had ever heard or used the word psyschosis until the shink hired by her lawyer after the murders used it. Prosecution has access to all of her medical records and have interviewed the husband extensively.

Having not been identified as psychotic in the past is an element, but it’s not the whole story. A person with severe PPD could experience a psychotic break as another step on that continuum of illness. In fact, it is far likelier—as a purely statistical matter—than encountering the stone cold psychopath that some here seem to be arguing that she is.

+1 no one in this thread seems to understand mental illness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, it is alarming how little people posting here seem to understand about psychosis, which is not a medically rare phenomenon.

Not even her own attorney is alleging psychosis.

We don’t know what her attorney will ultimately allege; any sensible defense attorney in this situation is going to play cards close to vest until they see what the prosecution can prove. There is no shot at getting her out of custody (nor should there be), and there is no PR victory to be had at this stage in a case of filicide, so they’re smart to say relatively little.

He said a ton - he went on a total rant. But said very little of value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those arguing that she was not mentally ill but instead is a stone cold Casey Anthony type have a huge mountain of circumstantial evidence to get over to get a jury there.

Can we recall a stone cold Casey Anthony type who—totally coincidentally and in no way related to her actions in the subsequent crimes—had also been in a 5-day IOP and on 15 different psychiatric meds since September but been entirely healed, cured, with no remaining trace of the level of thought derangement that leads to that level of those medications and somewhat frantic toggling among options to identify what worked, only 4 months before?

No, we cannot.

I can't even follow your run-on-sentence.

It’s long, but not a run-on. No one is as crazy she was in month 1 and fully sane, but with a new bent for extreme evildoing, in Month 4. That dog just don’t hunt.

She can have mental illness and still be capable of committing murder. Not guilty by reason of insanity is a very specific and high bar and it does not apply to anyone with a mental illness. When she came to in the hospital, she didn't ask what happened. She knew - and all she wanted to know was if she needed a lawyer. Doesn't sound like a mother who is shocked that her kids are dead and she is the one who did it.

That’s true and may well be the prosecution’s argument. It doesn’t make it the God’s honest truth of what happened. We don’t know, but there are some
significant signals that this woman was pretty severely ill and was regarded that way by those closest to her. Mom saying it’s “good to see her looking so good”—that is not a thing that is commonly said about someone who was previously in the pink of good health. Same with husband jumping to “what did you do?” She’s absolutely correct that she needs an attorney, and a good one.

As attractive as it may be to frame her asking that question as evidence of cold-bloodedness, the reality is that psychosis does not invalidate all of one’s intelligence or executive functions.

That's pretty much the definition of psychosis.

No, it really is not. Psychosis is a degree of disconnection from reality, but it doesn’t always show up in a person who is also looking stuporous and seeming incapable of self-care. The DSM definition is the presence of one out of four kinds of thought disturbance. Hallucinations and delusions are two of them. You can have either of these without things like speech, self-care, ability to plan a dinner order necessarily being affected.

There is no evidence she experienced any of that. In fact neither she nor her husband nor any of her doctors had ever heard or used the word psyschosis until the shink hired by her lawyer after the murders used it. Prosecution has access to all of her medical records and have interviewed the husband extensively.

Having not been identified as psychotic in the past is an element, but it’s not the whole story. A person with severe PPD could experience a psychotic break as another step on that continuum of illness. In fact, it is far likelier—as a purely statistical matter—than encountering the stone cold psychopath that some here seem to be arguing that she is.

+1 no one in this thread seems to understand mental illness

No, we just understand that people can be mentally ill and still guilty of murder. If mental illness was a get out of jail free card, the jails would be almost empty.