FCPS Boundary Review Updates

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:After speaking to several school board members. It seems like Sandy came in wanting boundary changes to be her lasting legacy and there has never been any discussion on why.

almost no one wants to be moved, yet instead of listening to reasons from the people it actually effects, she has blinders on and continues to push forward. The job is too big for the firm they hired and are in over their heads. (Confirmed by people on the committee) The pushback from nearly all communities asking to step back and not rush into these changes has fallen on deaf ears. SA has flat out said she doesn’t care if she doesn’t get re elected. She’s bulldozing the entire boundary review even while other board members have said to slow down and re evaluate trends, especially with the RIFs and people moving from this area. The random shuffling of neighborhoods does nothing for the bigger issue and as the home owners age fluctuates, it just leads everything to need to be changed again in 10 years.

It’s extremely frustrating and my personal conversations with her have left me feeling that she absolutely does not care what anyone thinks. She’s flippant and honestly, obnoxious in her responses. Telling me about people who live on the “wrong side of the parkway” and I should be happy I’m not getting switched to XYZ. As the top ranked member of the school board, she absolutely should not make comments about how any school is less than another. She should be an advocate and a supporter of making all FCPS schools strong and singing their praises, not just telling us we are lucky we don’t have to go there.

I want to get to the bottom of why she is so adamant about this being her legacy, which one of her financial supporters is it benefiting

It has to be some person who is in the current RV/Lewis pocket, right? She is the only one who keeps talking about those neighborhoods staying at Irving/WSHS where none of the maps so far have showed that move. That or she is a hardcore equity warrior. But honestly, I can imagine what hardcore equity moves might look like and they don’t look like the weird, piecemeal shifting around of neighborhoods that we’ve seen so far.

I wonder what the SES is like in that RVES pocket? I honestly don't know, but I wonder if it is on the lower end SES wise, if that is why she wants it moved into WSHS? I know there ae some apartments along Rolling closer to the Parkway and if those are in that pocket? I also suspect that she is ultimately going to push for either all or part of HVES to be pushed into Lewis, thus altering the SES balance between WSHS and Lewis.

I just hope the rest of the School Board pushes back on her. But they may not care if it doesn't affect their constituents.

Many of the Lewis zoned houses in that area outside the parkway are very nice for the area.

They are easily the nicest house zoned for Rolling Valley by a mile. Most, if not all, of the WSHS zoned houses in the Rolling Valley neighborhoods are small ramblers and split levels, some of the smallest 1960s houses in the area, plus townhouses. The RV houses zoned for Lewis are large, spacious, much newer and updated. They are very nice houses at a Lewis discount. If they get rezoned for WSHS, they will shoot up in value over night.

Just in general, many of the houses that are zoned for Lewis are nice. There are neighborhoods closer to Lewis that are very nice and the whole Saratoga area is nice. All of those families deserve better than what the SB has done to Lewis re: IB vs AP, the academy etc.

+ 1 we are one of “those families” and totally agree!

I agree that Lewis deserves better, but almost 300 Lewis students pupil place to other high schools each year.

It seems like very few Lewis zoned families have skin in the game to make the school more appealing to families.

Yes. Lewis' current membership 1632 and its capacity is 1886 on the FCPS dashboard. You return around 200 students, it is not longer under enrolled. If adding students is the fix, start with the ones currently zoned for Lewis. Get rid of IB and plug the leaks.

I’m pretty sure the “path out of Lewis” is essentially, buy home zoned for Saratoga > private/Montessori K at the nearby Montessori school then tough it out at Saratoga for grades 1-2 > extreme test prep to get into AAP > AAP center at Lorton Station for 3-6 (out of pyramid entirely, gets mostly South County students) > MS AAP at Lake Braddock (also out of pyramid) > stay there for 9-12 for the AP classes.

Families in Crestwood/garfield do pretty much the same thing to get out of Lewis. Springfield estates AAP to LB. Why this is allowed but they want to disrupt kids and move small portions of neighborhoods out of their current HS is beyond me.

Springfield Estates to LB is a wild option. Why is that the only middle school “center” for them to choose? Every middle school should have local AAP and there should not be these loopholes to transfer pyramids.

I mean kids would still transfer for the AP option. There are many loopholes. Why close them if they offer more choice for parents and children? I like the options we have within the county for lots of reasons:
1 there is something for everyone (language, awesome academy programs, montessori, aap, arts, sped etc)
2 we get options without having charters

I think the answer is MORE choice within the school system, not less.

The answer to your underlined question is simple.

If we are rezoning using enrollment numbers that are grossly skewed due to the transfer loopholes, like Lewis, for example, then the transfer loopholes should be closed before any rezoning takes place.

No family that purchased in bounds for a school should be rezoned based on kids who live in a different high school zone transferring in or out of their assigned schools.

Yes. And families should not be reassigned to fill seats at a school that is bleeding 10-15% of its inbounds student population to pupil placements. If IB is underutilized at a school and large numbers of students are placing out for AP, that’s a sign that IB is not a good fit for that school.

None of the recommendations have anything to do with backfilling IB transfers. Edison is the only school that’s taking more transfers in than transfers out. It’s an IB school and takes about 54 Lewis transfers (also IB). The recommendation to send Bren Mar Park back to Annandale is driven by middle school feeders.

Schools that are shuffling students to backfill others like Chantilly and WSHS are not taking IB transfers. Chantilly should have offloaded most of their academies years ago. Their primary transfers are from Westfield, Centreville, Fairfax, and Oakton. All AP schools. WSHS is primarily from LB and South County. Again, AP schools.

Academies can be hard to move for certain specialties, but they should absolutely move those to neighboring schools with capacity surpluses before changing boundaries.

While it is true none of the current proposals cite underutilization as a criterion, we have been told that some of the maps are in error (particularly the ones for HVES south of the Parkway) and on the Boundary tool survey, "increase enrollment at schools that have too few students" is listed as an item to rate, so presumably that is being looked at in the context of the next round of maps. If a school has "too few students" and has a lot of pupil placements out (Lewis has around 10-15% of its students placing out), it would be wise to analyze and address the reasons for those pupil placements before attempting to widen the net in hopes of filling more seats. If lack of students are an issue, start with those who are inbounds first before disrupting other communities.

[Anonymous]

My child was at Rocky Run two years ago and we asked about transferring to Chantilly instead of Centreville so she could stay with her friend group. We were told absolutely not, it was closed to transfers, and we couldn't even use Latin to get in.

So I don't know how people are finagling these transfers to closed schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After speaking to several school board members. It seems like Sandy came in wanting boundary changes to be her lasting legacy and there has never been any discussion on why.

almost no one wants to be moved, yet instead of listening to reasons from the people it actually effects, she has blinders on and continues to push forward. The job is too big for the firm they hired and are in over their heads. (Confirmed by people on the committee) The pushback from nearly all communities asking to step back and not rush into these changes has fallen on deaf ears. SA has flat out said she doesn’t care if she doesn’t get re elected. She’s bulldozing the entire boundary review even while other board members have said to slow down and re evaluate trends, especially with the RIFs and people moving from this area. The random shuffling of neighborhoods does nothing for the bigger issue and as the home owners age fluctuates, it just leads everything to need to be changed again in 10 years.

It’s extremely frustrating and my personal conversations with her have left me feeling that she absolutely does not care what anyone thinks. She’s flippant and honestly, obnoxious in her responses. Telling me about people who live on the “wrong side of the parkway” and I should be happy I’m not getting switched to XYZ. As the top ranked member of the school board, she absolutely should not make comments about how any school is less than another. She should be an advocate and a supporter of making all FCPS schools strong and singing their praises, not just telling us we are lucky we don’t have to go there.

I want to get to the bottom of why she is so adamant about this being her legacy, which one of her financial supporters is it benefiting

It has to be some person who is in the current RV/Lewis pocket, right? She is the only one who keeps talking about those neighborhoods staying at Irving/WSHS where none of the maps so far have showed that move. That or she is a hardcore equity warrior. But honestly, I can imagine what hardcore equity moves might look like and they don’t look like the weird, piecemeal shifting around of neighborhoods that we’ve seen so far.

I wonder what the SES is like in that RVES pocket? I honestly don't know, but I wonder if it is on the lower end SES wise, if that is why she wants it moved into WSHS? I know there ae some apartments along Rolling closer to the Parkway and if those are in that pocket? I also suspect that she is ultimately going to push for either all or part of HVES to be pushed into Lewis, thus altering the SES balance between WSHS and Lewis.

I just hope the rest of the School Board pushes back on her. But they may not care if it doesn't affect their constituents.

Many of the Lewis zoned houses in that area outside the parkway are very nice for the area.

They are easily the nicest house zoned for Rolling Valley by a mile. Most, if not all, of the WSHS zoned houses in the Rolling Valley neighborhoods are small ramblers and split levels, some of the smallest 1960s houses in the area, plus townhouses. The RV houses zoned for Lewis are large, spacious, much newer and updated. They are very nice houses at a Lewis discount. If they get rezoned for WSHS, they will shoot up in value over night.

Just in general, many of the houses that are zoned for Lewis are nice. There are neighborhoods closer to Lewis that are very nice and the whole Saratoga area is nice. All of those families deserve better than what the SB has done to Lewis re: IB vs AP, the academy etc.

+ 1 we are one of “those families” and totally agree!

I agree that Lewis deserves better, but almost 300 Lewis students pupil place to other high schools each year.

It seems like very few Lewis zoned families have skin in the game to make the school more appealing to families.

Yes. Lewis' current membership 1632 and its capacity is 1886 on the FCPS dashboard. You return around 200 students, it is not longer under enrolled. If adding students is the fix, start with the ones currently zoned for Lewis. Get rid of IB and plug the leaks.

I’m pretty sure the “path out of Lewis” is essentially, buy home zoned for Saratoga > private/Montessori K at the nearby Montessori school then tough it out at Saratoga for grades 1-2 > extreme test prep to get into AAP > AAP center at Lorton Station for 3-6 (out of pyramid entirely, gets mostly South County students) > MS AAP at Lake Braddock (also out of pyramid) > stay there for 9-12 for the AP classes.

Families in Crestwood/garfield do pretty much the same thing to get out of Lewis. Springfield estates AAP to LB. Why this is allowed but they want to disrupt kids and move small portions of neighborhoods out of their current HS is beyond me.

Springfield Estates to LB is a wild option. Why is that the only middle school “center” for them to choose? Every middle school should have local AAP and there should not be these loopholes to transfer pyramids.

I mean kids would still transfer for the AP option. There are many loopholes. Why close them if they offer more choice for parents and children? I like the options we have within the county for lots of reasons:
1 there is something for everyone (language, awesome academy programs, montessori, aap, arts, sped etc)
2 we get options without having charters

I think the answer is MORE choice within the school system, not less.

The answer to your underlined question is simple.

If we are rezoning using enrollment numbers that are grossly skewed due to the transfer loopholes, like Lewis, for example, then the transfer loopholes should be closed before any rezoning takes place.

No family that purchased in bounds for a school should be rezoned based on kids who live in a different high school zone transferring in or out of their assigned schools.

WSHS has been closed to transfers since its renovation started in 2016.

Yet, around 60 students have been allowed to transfer into the school every year for the past few years.

Chantilly is also way over capacity and I thought was closed to transfers. 85 students transferred into Chantilly last year.

McLean is supposedly bursting at the seems. 60 students transferred into McLean last year.

There are several schools with close to 250-300 students transferring out each year. Why is that? Why isn't FCPS identifying the problem and fixing that before rezoning? Isn't running quality schools what we pay taxes for and why we elect the school board? My taxes keep going up, but school quality keeps going down.

Those transfer loopholes need to be closed, particularly at the overcrowded schools and the undercrowded schools, before any rezoning occurs.

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/fcps.fts/viz/SY2024-25StudentTransfersDashboard/ReadMe

Most of the McLean transfers are grandfathering remnants from the last boundary adjustment with Langley.

[Anonymous]

Why did Chantilly get 30 new students in Nove. Seems odd. mber?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why did Chantilly get 30 new students in Nove. Seems odd. mber?

Yes.

There are a lot of odd transfers into the closed schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why did Chantilly get 30 new students in Nove. Seems odd. mber?

Maybe transfers into the CSS site? There's no high school CSS at Westfield or Centreville so presumably those students get sent to Chantilly.

[Anonymous]

I think there are only a handful of HS CSS sites in the whole county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://patch.com/virginia/across-va/public-school-enrollment-continues-fall-including-virginia

Pretty soon, FCPS is going to have to decide whether it wants UMC families in the school system.

The school board can have its every five-year boundary change instability or they can retain these families. The trade-off is clear.

There are not enough private schools in this area and most people cannot afford the $50,000 price tags, or more, of the majority of schools in this area. The article does not breakdown how many of those kids that are leaving are SPED kids whose parents are dissatisfied with the services offered in the public schools. It also points to kids leaving mainly in MS, where parents are placing kids in private school to avoid the hell that is MS by placing them in smaller MS. Many of those families return their kids to public HS.

They are not going to adjust all the boundaries every 5 years but they will shift to use available space as schools become more crowded and other schools decrease in numbers. Loudoun does this right now and there are not that many complaints. They need to open new schools because of growth, maybe that explains the lack of complaint, but I have friends whose kids have changed schools in ES and HS.

Arlington regularly shifts boundaries too. If you want to guarantee your pyramid, buy in FCC or the City of Fairfax.

I think you’re missing the point entirely. The point is that UMC families want that certainty, and will look elsewhere for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://patch.com/virginia/across-va/public-school-enrollment-continues-fall-including-virginia

Pretty soon, FCPS is going to have to decide whether it wants UMC families in the school system.

The school board can have its every five-year boundary change instability or they can retain these families. The trade-off is clear.

There are not enough private schools in this area and most people cannot afford the $50,000 price tags, or more, of the majority of schools in this area. The article does not breakdown how many of those kids that are leaving are SPED kids whose parents are dissatisfied with the services offered in the public schools. It also points to kids leaving mainly in MS, where parents are placing kids in private school to avoid the hell that is MS by placing them in smaller MS. Many of those families return their kids to public HS.

They are not going to adjust all the boundaries every 5 years but they will shift to use available space as schools become more crowded and other schools decrease in numbers. Loudoun does this right now and there are not that many complaints. They need to open new schools because of growth, maybe that explains the lack of complaint, but I have friends whose kids have changed schools in ES and HS.

Arlington regularly shifts boundaries too. If you want to guarantee your pyramid, buy in FCC or the City of Fairfax.

Arlington's lack of stable boyndaries is a big reason why many people but in FCPS instead of Arlington, and why many families mive frim Arlington to Fairfax County when their kids hit school age.

Every new neighbor who has moved into our neighborhood from Arlington did so specifically for the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child was at Rocky Run two years ago and we asked about transferring to Chantilly instead of Centreville so she could stay with her friend group. We were told absolutely not, it was closed to transfers, and we couldn't even use Latin to get in.

So I don't know how people are finagling these transfers to closed schools.

Gueas you didn't have the right connections

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://patch.com/virginia/across-va/public-school-enrollment-continues-fall-including-virginia

Pretty soon, FCPS is going to have to decide whether it wants UMC families in the school system.

The school board can have its every five-year boundary change instability or they can retain these families. The trade-off is clear.

There are not enough private schools in this area and most people cannot afford the $50,000 price tags, or more, of the majority of schools in this area. The article does not breakdown how many of those kids that are leaving are SPED kids whose parents are dissatisfied with the services offered in the public schools. It also points to kids leaving mainly in MS, where parents are placing kids in private school to avoid the hell that is MS by placing them in smaller MS. Many of those families return their kids to public HS.

They are not going to adjust all the boundaries every 5 years but they will shift to use available space as schools become more crowded and other schools decrease in numbers. Loudoun does this right now and there are not that many complaints. They need to open new schools because of growth, maybe that explains the lack of complaint, but I have friends whose kids have changed schools in ES and HS.

I think you missed that we’re talking about upper middle class families. Most can afford it.

And maybe you missed that policy 8130 requires them to do a comprehensive review every five years. Fwiw, it’s the uncertainty that’ll drive the flight, even if the changes are not as disruptive as this go round.

The school board is doing real damage to the public schools unnecessarily.

My family is UMC and I would not say that we could afford $50,000. Well, we could, but we would have to not save for college and not take vacations and not make some upgrades on our house. It would be tight. And we wouldn't want to commute that comes with attending most of those schools or the ridiculous small size of some of those schools.

I didn't miss the 5 year comprehensive review but review does not mean redraw all the boundaries. It might mean that there are schools that are over crowded and need to have their boundaries addresses, and that is fine. They should be doing that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://patch.com/virginia/across-va/public-school-enrollment-continues-fall-including-virginia

Pretty soon, FCPS is going to have to decide whether it wants UMC families in the school system.

The school board can have its every five-year boundary change instability or they can retain these families. The trade-off is clear.

There are not enough private schools in this area and most people cannot afford the $50,000 price tags, or more, of the majority of schools in this area. The article does not breakdown how many of those kids that are leaving are SPED kids whose parents are dissatisfied with the services offered in the public schools. It also points to kids leaving mainly in MS, where parents are placing kids in private school to avoid the hell that is MS by placing them in smaller MS. Many of those families return their kids to public HS.

They are not going to adjust all the boundaries every 5 years but they will shift to use available space as schools become more crowded and other schools decrease in numbers. Loudoun does this right now and there are not that many complaints. They need to open new schools because of growth, maybe that explains the lack of complaint, but I have friends whose kids have changed schools in ES and HS.

Arlington regularly shifts boundaries too. If you want to guarantee your pyramid, buy in FCC or the City of Fairfax.

Arlington's lack of stable boyndaries is a big reason why many people but in FCPS instead of Arlington, and why many families mive frim Arlington to Fairfax County when their kids hit school age.

Every new neighbor who has moved into our neighborhood from Arlington did so specifically for the schools.

A good number of people move to FCPS from Arlington because they want access to AAP, the gifted program in Arlington is not robust, or they want better MS and HS options then they have in Arlington. Or they are coming from South Arlington where the schools are not as strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://patch.com/virginia/across-va/public-school-enrollment-continues-fall-including-virginia

Pretty soon, FCPS is going to have to decide whether it wants UMC families in the school system.

The school board can have its every five-year boundary change instability or they can retain these families. The trade-off is clear.

There are not enough private schools in this area and most people cannot afford the $50,000 price tags, or more, of the majority of schools in this area. The article does not breakdown how many of those kids that are leaving are SPED kids whose parents are dissatisfied with the services offered in the public schools. It also points to kids leaving mainly in MS, where parents are placing kids in private school to avoid the hell that is MS by placing them in smaller MS. Many of those families return their kids to public HS.

They are not going to adjust all the boundaries every 5 years but they will shift to use available space as schools become more crowded and other schools decrease in numbers. Loudoun does this right now and there are not that many complaints. They need to open new schools because of growth, maybe that explains the lack of complaint, but I have friends whose kids have changed schools in ES and HS.

I think you missed that we’re talking about upper middle class families. Most can afford it.

And maybe you missed that policy 8130 requires them to do a comprehensive review every five years. Fwiw, it’s the uncertainty that’ll drive the flight, even if the changes are not as disruptive as this go round.

The school board is doing real damage to the public schools unnecessarily.

My family is UMC and I would not say that we could afford $50,000. Well, we could, but we would have to not save for college and not take vacations and not make some upgrades on our house. It would be tight. And we wouldn't want to commute that comes with attending most of those schools or the ridiculous small size of some of those schools.

I didn't miss the 5 year comprehensive review but review does not mean redraw all the boundaries. It might mean that there are schools that are over crowded and need to have their boundaries addresses, and that is fine. They should be doing that.

They should be looking at whether they are allocating their capital resources effectively before changing boundaries.

Not just building additions to schools because they are in an outdated renovation queue developed over 15 years ago, or because individual School Board members like Karl Frisch decided that wasting $85 million on an unnecessary new school in Dunn Loring was a good way to ensure Blake Lane Park in Oakton would remain untouched.

As long as people see the inefficiency in FCPS, they are more than justified in objecting to boundary changes. I certainly hope that you are among those who get redistricted, because it's typically far easier to say that it's fine to adjust boundaries that affect other people's kids when you've already been the beneficiary of FCPS's uneven spending and aren't likely to get moved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why did Chantilly get 30 new students in Nove. Seems odd. mber?

Why would they put it in an overcrowded school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://patch.com/virginia/across-va/public-school-enrollment-continues-fall-including-virginia

Pretty soon, FCPS is going to have to decide whether it wants UMC families in the school system.

The school board can have its every five-year boundary change instability or they can retain these families. The trade-off is clear.

There are not enough private schools in this area and most people cannot afford the $50,000 price tags, or more, of the majority of schools in this area. The article does not breakdown how many of those kids that are leaving are SPED kids whose parents are dissatisfied with the services offered in the public schools. It also points to kids leaving mainly in MS, where parents are placing kids in private school to avoid the hell that is MS by placing them in smaller MS. Many of those families return their kids to public HS.

They are not going to adjust all the boundaries every 5 years but they will shift to use available space as schools become more crowded and other schools decrease in numbers. Loudoun does this right now and there are not that many complaints. They need to open new schools because of growth, maybe that explains the lack of complaint, but I have friends whose kids have changed schools in ES and HS.

I think you missed that we’re talking about upper middle class families. Most can afford it.

And maybe you missed that policy 8130 requires them to do a comprehensive review every five years. Fwiw, it’s the uncertainty that’ll drive the flight, even if the changes are not as disruptive as this go round.

The school board is doing real damage to the public schools unnecessarily.

My family is UMC and I would not say that we could afford $50,000. Well, we could, but we would have to not save for college and not take vacations and not make some upgrades on our house. It would be tight. And we wouldn't want to commute that comes with attending most of those schools or the ridiculous small size of some of those schools.

I didn't miss the 5 year comprehensive review but review does not mean redraw all the boundaries. It might mean that there are schools that are over crowded and need to have their boundaries addresses, and that is fine. They should be doing that.

Without knowing your specific situation, it doesn’t really sound like you are upper middle class. Maybe middle class?

Either way, it’s not like every single UMC family will leave, but I’ve been around long enough to know that a ton will, and the uncertainty is going to be a big contributing factor.

We’re really at an inflection point with public schools, and the only way they can be saved is to stop alienating engaged families.