Federal employee FMLA - Post-birth leave questions
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Anonymous
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I'm pregnant with my first and trying to figure out how my maternity leave will pan out. (Fair warning that this is a super boring post unless you're interested/knowledgeable about this stuff.)
Basics: I'm 43 (per the OB/GYN - advanced maternal age) We've been trying to get pregnant for four years and it finally happened - so for years, I've been stockpiling leave in hopes of a pregnancy. I have 160 hours of use or lose leave for 2019 that I will try to get kicked over and reinstated in 2020. I have a ton of sick leave (more than 900 hours) and would love to take as much of it as I can. I have additional leave hours banked (comp time, etc) to cover me through my Dec 4 due date, so no worries there unless things get dicey and my whole master plan is out the window. I have 40 hours of reinstated leave from the shutdown that I can use in 2020. I'll get an additional 2020 batch of 160 hours of use or lose leave. So, if all goes well, I'll have the following leave hours available in 2020: 900+ hours of sick leave 40 hours of reinstated shutdown leave 160 hours of 2020 use or lose leave And HOPEFULLY 160 hours of reinstated 2019 use or lose leave Not including sick leave, I hope to have 360 hours (9 weeks of leave) to use. Ideally, I will use my allotted FMLA leave and then tack on the additional 9 weeks of other leave that I have. (I will also have an additional 240 hours of leave in my leave bank that I carry over each year, but very well could use in 2020.) Essentially, I am trying to have the longest maternity leave possible while still getting paid. I have many questions, but I'll try to just ask the most important ones: 1. I have a ton of sick leave and would prefer to use that first. I've read that I get up to 12 weeks of FMLA leave. If my OB/GYN says I need 12 weeks of sick leave to recover, can I use all 12 weeks of FMLA with sick leave and then take my other 9 weeks of leave after my FMLA leave? 2. Can I use my other sick leave hours during my maternity leave outside of the FMLA window? 3. I've read that OB/GYNs usually dictate that 6-8 weeks is sufficient sick leave for post-birth recovery - what are the chances they will prescribe more for an old mom like me? 4. Has anyone had any luck getting their use or lose leave reinstated in the next year? My thought is to request leave and have my supervisor decline my request because of the press of work, then petition to have the leave reinstated in 2020. Do you think it will work or do you have any other ideas to accomplish getting my 2019 use or lose reinstated in 2020? 5. Does anyone know what is the total amount of maternity leave I can take? (only 12 weeks of FMLA leave?, as much leave as I have stock-piled?, etc.?) THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, to anyone willing to pore over this and share their expertise/experience. It is very appreciated! |
Anonymous
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I doubt you are going to get more sick leave. Eight weeks is about the max for that. You can still take sick leave for things like trips to the pediatrician, or if you or the baby are sick.
You can take as much leave as you have stockpiled and your supervisor approves. FMLA will only protect your job for 12 weeks, but if your supervisor approves more leave, that won't matter. FMLA would only come into play if you wanted to take 12 weeks and your supervisor wouldn't approve it all. FMLA is not a separate category of leave--there's no freestanding maternity leave in the federal government. FMLA just means that you are entitled to take at least 12 weeks of leave after the baby is born. If you don't have 12 weeks stockpiled, you can take it unpaid or borrow against future leave. |
Anonymous
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Why don't you list your annual leave as an asset? Sometimes offices will only let you take 6 weeks of sick leave. And some offices could care less! But important to know which kind of office you are in. Your second question hinges on the answer to this. Technically I think formally you can take 4 weeks of sick for a vaginal birth and 6 weeks for a cesarean and then you have to start using annual. But in my office this is totally irrelevant and no one cares what you do.
You can always invoke FMLA late. So like, take 12 weeks of recovery and THEN invoke FMLA to get another 12 depending on what your office will let you do. For number 3, ask your OB. Some will play the game with you and some won't. For #4 and #5 it kind of has all the same things. When is your baby due? Will they be looking for administrative ways to help or hurt you? In my office you could be gone for 6-8 months and everyone would be supportive. In other offices I know they would be working to limit you and you'd have to use tricks like taking the full 6-8 c recovery and then invoking FMLA to secure an additional 12. |
Anonymous
| I'm not sure what you mean by taking your FMLA leave and then the nine weeks of extra leave you have. The way it works is that you take up to 6 or 8 weeks of your sick leave, and then you take whatever other amount of your accrued annual leave you want. FMLA guarantees that you are allowed to take up to 12 weeks, not that you get 12 weeks of extra paid leave. Also, if your office is fine with it, you can take more than 12 weeks, but again, FMLA doesn't give you any extra leave, just provides that your employer has to let you take 12 weeks (it doesn't even guarantee that you have to be paid for those weeks. If you don't have enough paid leave, you can take unpaid leave, or there are rules now about borrowing against future leave--which I wouldn't recommend unless it's really necessary, because you'll want that leave with a kid). |
Anonymous
FMLA does not automatically start when your baby is born though. FMLA needs to be invoked. Therefore if you have your baby and do 6 weeks you can THEN invoke FMLA and get an ADDITIONAL 12. |
Anonymous
Right, but you don't get 12 extra weeks of annual leave. You would just be invoking your right to take 12 weeks of the leave you've already accrued (or borrowed against future leave). And I don't think you can take six weeks of sick leave, invoke FMLA, and then get to take more sick leave (unless you or your baby have some medical condition that requires it). If you took six weeks of sick leave and then invoked FMLA, it would give you the right to take 12 weeks of annual leave. Invoking FMLA or not doesn't change the amount of paid leave you have accrued and can use. |
Anonymous
| What do you mean by use-or-lose leave? Do you have a total of nine weeks of annual leave accrued (or that will accrue by your due date) or do you have 240 hours + nine weeks? |
Anonymous
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Congrats OP! Unfortunately this question is hard to answer because it really depends on agency interpretation. Both agencies I've been at do not allow you to use sick leave for more than the amount of time a dr signs a note for actual recovery from birth. This is usually 6 weeks for vaginal birth and 8 for c-section. My dr put 8 before the birth probably as just a just in case of c-section on the FMLA paperwork which I appreciated so that could help. But you're unlikely to get 12 weeks unless you have a unique situation and I'm pretty sure being older isn't one of them but hey you can ask. But I HAVE heard through the grapevine some coworkers at agencies who didn't enforce this recovery rule for sick leave, so I would try to see if there is any way to get around that at your current agency. You need to ask coworkers first, not HR (in my experience. Get a lay of the land first). What I've heard from the agencies I've been at though is that sick leave can't be used for "bonding" which is anything after the recovery period designated by your dr.
Here is the basic way FMLA works: All FMLA does is protect your job for 12 weeks of unpaid leave. You're actually not even required to "enact" FMLA after the birth, you could theoretically just take sick leave and annual leave if your supervisor is on board. The pros of this is that you only get 12 weeks of this protected FMLA leave a year, so say if your baby got a serious illness at 9 months and you've already used your FMLA, you won't have it until they are 12 months (usually the feds will work with you though if we're being honest). The pros of using the FMLA for those first 12 weeks or at some point is it does just give you a level of protection and I think generally most people recommend going ahead and taking it. But it's most helpful if you need to take some unpaid leave so for you it might not be necessary if your supervisor is cool with it. You have the 12 weeks protected unpaid leave, but in terms of taking more time that is at the discretion of your supervisor for the most part in my experience. I took a total of 17 weeks, I did submit for FMLA, took about 6 weeks sick leave (all I had) and then the rest was a mix of annual leave and unpaid leave. I know people at my current agency (new agency to me since my maternity leave) that took 6 months or more. Technically there is some risk after your FMLA ends as legally your job is not protected, but if you have a supportive work environment and supervisors who are supportive most people are able to work it out. There is some level of trust involved on your end that your job will be there when you get back. but let's be real, supervisors know they can't get a new person in faster to replace you anyway  I took the extra 5 weeks and I wasn't "protected" during that time legally if something had happened but it was worth it to me. I"m so glad I did, FWIW. I know I am very lucky and privileged to have been able to take 4 months even if a good bit of it was unpaid and next time I'm actually aiming for 6 months.
You only get this time at most a couple times, it's a hard but special time and since you have the leave I would take it!! Save some for baby illness etc but honestly you rack it back up reasonably quickly. And taking the unpaid time hit us less than we thought and was well worth the extra weeks. Good luck! I have no idea about use or lose... |
Anonymous
| sorry I meant invoke not enact FMLA above |
Anonymous
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OPM policy for sick leave is that you can use 6 weeks for a vaginal delivery and 8 weeks for a c section. You can use additional sick leave when you have a doctor appointment, or when you or baby is sick.
So you'll have to intersperse your sick leave with other types of leave after the 6/8 week mark. |
Anonymous
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I had a ton of use or lose while I was pregnant with #1, and my HR wouldn't let me lose it at the end of the calendar year and reinstate it the next year when my baby was born. So I had a nice leave over the holidays while I was pregnant! Definitely ask though, as it was annoying that I couldn't keep the leave for my own use in the next year, when I needed it more.
I have only been able to use 6 weeks' sick/advance sick for my kids' vaginal births, but schedule doctors' appts on different days so you can use sick leave on those days after the 6 weeks are up. My boss knew I was pregnant and helped out by giving me some time off awards instead of cash awards in years when my babies were born. |
Anonymous
| ^Also, since you're AMA, they might want you to induce at 39 weeks. If I were you, I'd just take your use or lose annual in December. You will need all your hours of sick leave when your baby gets sick constantly in daycare (e.g., you'll need to keep your child home for 24 hours after a fever ends, etc.). |
Anonymous
| I thought you had to use all your sick and annual leave before you could take FMLA time and then it would be unpaid (not what OP was hoping for) that also assume you don't have 12 weeks of sick and annual leave to take. Also my agency would not allow me to carry over more than the limit just because you're expecting a baby in the next year. Basically the only way you could carry over more than the limit is if you were denied taking your leave during the year. |
Anonymous
This may be the way your agency implemented it as there seems to be a lot of confusion and variety between agencies, but it is definitely not correct in terms of the protections of FMLA. You should be able to invoke FMLA after the birth whether you're using sick or annual or unpaid leave, you just don't have to so some people don't. Though I think most do. |
Anonymous
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All agencies are different -- mine allowed me to stretch out my sick leave and use it throughout my maternity leave, but I think that's rare.
What you should count on is: - Not having your use-or-lose reinstated in 2020; I've never heard of that happening and I don't even know if it's possible. I believe OPM would prohibit it. - Having 6 weeks of sick leave for a vaginal birth and 8 for a c-section. Assuming you deliver on December 1, you can take 6 weeks of sick leave (240 hours) and then you'll have 6 more weeks of FMLA leave that you can have paid out using your 160 hours of use-or-lose leave, 40 hours of shutdown leave, and 40 hours of annual leave. If you're on paid leave, you will be able to take the holidays as paid days, so this isn't perfect math; you'll have at least 2 federal holidays, maybe 3, depending on the actual date of delivery. But this is generally what you should be thinking about. Also, your agency may allow you to take off more than 12 weeks. Mine allowed us to be gone up to 6 months. But all of it was unpaid except for the sick/annual leave we had. If you want more than 12 weeks, ask and see if they'll agree. |