Ukrainian victory over Russia is inevitable

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.



This certainly isn't going to go on for decades. This is nothing like Israel-Palestine. Russia just on its own is deep into a doom loop. It's a demographic catastrophe that the war in Ukraine has only accelerated. Almost every young professional university-educated male, particularly in IT, left the country at the outset of the war. And they're not coming back. What remains is an increasingly old and barely literate population. An incredibly high percentage of Russian men are afflicted with alcoholism. Economically, for thirty years Russia has managed to get by as Europe's gas station. Europe isn't buying anymore. They're done will never go back to being dependent on Russian oil and gas. Selling deeply discounted oil to India does not support a superpower. Politically, there is no "system." It's a dictatorship. Putin is ill. The moment he leaves the scene, chaos reigns. Medvedev is a drunk. The rest are warlords. It's not going to go well.

And then there is the war in Ukraine. Best estimates are that Russia has suffered roughly 200,000 casualties. 70,000 dead and the rest crippled or injured. Ukraine has certainly suffered staggering losses themselves. But they are fighting to save their families and their land. There is no higher motivation to fight. Most of the advanced western weapons systems promised to Ukraine have arrived - Patriot missile systems, Leopard tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, and very significantly, UK-supplied Storm Shadow long distance missiles, which are five times more powerful than HIMARS and have a longer range. Just as importantly, tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers have been trained up to NATO standards at bases throughout Europe and even the US, where they are being trained to use Abrams tanks, which should arrive in Ukraine by the Fall.

Meanwhile, the Russian military has fallen apart. More than 2500 tanks gone. At present rates of destruction, all their APCs will be wiped out by the end of the year. Shortages of ammunition. And on and on and on. None of this can be easily replenished. Military leadership is weak and disorganized. Wagner and regular army do not coordinate anymore. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. In recent days, Ukrainian forces have conducted probing attacks throughout the front, including in Bakhmut. In all cases, Russian forces were destroyed or fled. On Russian Telegram channels, they are in blind panic.

I'm increasingly confident that the upcoming Ukrainian counter-offensive will turn into a rout and this war will be over by then end of the year.



That sure is a lot of words. Let me point out that even though Palestine isn’t exactly the strongest nation, it’s not going away, and Russia won’t as well, even when it bleeds out under sanctions.
As to your last paragraph, how do you think the counteroffensive will end? And how will the war end.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump will end this terrible war. The day cannot come soon enough.

Voting for trump would be against all my interests but I am seriously considering voting for him just to end the war. I think both countries’ governments are bad, though Russia’s is worse, but I want the war to stop and ordinary people to stop bearing the brunt of their political battles.


Hah! Trump would love to turn the US INTO Russia, but he'll never get another chance. Trump will never again be President of anything, well, except maybe the Federal Prison Golf Club?

In the meantime, Wagner is "using their ammunition to stop the fleeing servicemen of the Russian army"
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1657126013002809346?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Ukrainian tanks are getting better and better as every day passes, and the question is what does Putin have left and what can he get his hands on? He might be pulling weapons from South Africa now - a few of which could be worrisome (ex. 155mm howitzers, thermal imagers, MRL, MILAN ER AT, Leopard 2's, Modernized Centurion tanks, drones, SAM's, etc.)

https://news.yahoo.com/promised-challenger-2-tanks-already-131912551.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-deliver-abrams-tanks-ukrainian-084900199.html

Just as Palestine is locked in a battle with Israel that went on for years, there is a very real possibility that this conflict will drag out as well. Russia will need to expand southward if they want to rebuild the Soviet Union again, but given how well they do in Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and the 'stans' (Kazakhstan Uzbekistan Kyrgyzstan Turkmenistan Tajikistan), etc. they're pretty screwed. Sure, the Russian military can try to keep taking Ukraine, but losing 1/4 million child-rearing-aged men a year is probably a bad idea. Besides, has ANYONE EVER seen the Swiss take sides before? You know things are bad when even the conflict-adverse, money-loving Swiss bankers flip you the bird.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/swiss-parliament-passes-decision-export-050752690.html

The way I see this resolving with minimal future losses is once the Ukrainians drive out Russia from their territory (by force, since the Russian Government seems too stupid to pull out themselves), then either the UN but more likely NATO, establishes a no-fire buffer zone in the currently occupied territories. If the Russian military is dumb enough to shoot at NATO troops, NATO (unlike the UN) shoots back, so the best move would be for Russia to lick it's wounds while Ukraine reconstructs. UNHCR helps repatriate Ukrainian refugees and brokers the return of Russian bodies scattered across the country, OSCE helps re-integrate the formerly-occupied territories back into the governing system of Ukraine, and NATO De-mining helps Ukraine re-establish territory safe to live in. In the meantime, Ukraine, now bristling with western weaponry make's it's formal bid to join NATO to keep this from ever happening again.
Anonymous
Good news everybody. Russian air defense is working. They've shot down up to 6 helicopters and planes today. Of course they were all Russian birds, but still, quite the achievement.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump will end this terrible war. The day cannot come soon enough.

Voting for trump would be against all my interests but I am seriously considering voting for him just to end the war. I think both countries’ governments are bad, though Russia’s is worse, but I want the war to stop and ordinary people to stop bearing the brunt of their political battles.


Hah! Trump would love to turn the US INTO Russia, but he'll never get another chance. Trump will never again be President of anything, well, except maybe the Federal Prison Golf Club?

In the meantime, Wagner is "using their ammunition to stop the fleeing servicemen of the Russian army"
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1657126013002809346?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Ukrainian tanks are getting better and better as every day passes, and the question is what does Putin have left and what can he get his hands on? He might be pulling weapons from South Africa now - a few of which could be worrisome (ex. 155mm howitzers, thermal imagers, MRL, MILAN ER AT, Leopard 2's, Modernized Centurion tanks, drones, SAM's, etc.)

https://news.yahoo.com/promised-challenger-2-tanks-already-131912551.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-deliver-abrams-tanks-ukrainian-084900199.html

Just as Palestine is locked in a battle with Israel that went on for years, there is a very real possibility that this conflict will drag out as well. Russia will need to expand southward if they want to rebuild the Soviet Union again, but given how well they do in Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and the 'stans' (Kazakhstan Uzbekistan Kyrgyzstan Turkmenistan Tajikistan), etc. they're pretty screwed. Sure, the Russian military can try to keep taking Ukraine, but losing 1/4 million child-rearing-aged men a year is probably a bad idea. Besides, has ANYONE EVER seen the Swiss take sides before? You know things are bad when even the conflict-adverse, money-loving Swiss bankers flip you the bird.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/swiss-parliament-passes-decision-export-050752690.html

The way I see this resolving with minimal future losses is once the Ukrainians drive out Russia from their territory (by force, since the Russian Government seems too stupid to pull out themselves), then either the UN but more likely NATO, establishes a no-fire buffer zone in the currently occupied territories. If the Russian military is dumb enough to shoot at NATO troops, NATO (unlike the UN) shoots back, so the best move would be for Russia to lick it's wounds while Ukraine reconstructs. UNHCR helps repatriate Ukrainian refugees and brokers the return of Russian bodies scattered across the country, OSCE helps re-integrate the formerly-occupied territories back into the governing system of Ukraine, and NATO De-mining helps Ukraine re-establish territory safe to live in. In the meantime, Ukraine, now bristling with western weaponry make's it's formal bid to join NATO to keep this from ever happening again.


The question is, when will the Ukraine be able to drive Russia out? What’s your theory?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Good news everybody. Russian air defense is working. They've shot down up to 6 helicopters and planes today. Of course they were all Russian birds, but still, quite the achievement.


Apparently two of the helicopters were dispatched in anticipation of the warplanes being shot down?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/may/13/russia-ukraine-war-live-russian-retreat-in-bakhmut-highlights-shortage-of-credible-combat-units-say-uk-officials

Either Russia shot down it's own aircraft, or the Ukrainians took way more ground than the Russians knew about. The former, a sign of panic amongst Russian forces, while the latter a sign of a rout amongst Russian forces. Either version is bad for Russia.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump will end this terrible war. The day cannot come soon enough.

Voting for trump would be against all my interests but I am seriously considering voting for him just to end the war. I think both countries’ governments are bad, though Russia’s is worse, but I want the war to stop and ordinary people to stop bearing the brunt of their political battles.


Hah! Trump would love to turn the US INTO Russia, but he'll never get another chance. Trump will never again be President of anything, well, except maybe the Federal Prison Golf Club?

In the meantime, Wagner is "using their ammunition to stop the fleeing servicemen of the Russian army"
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1657126013002809346?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Ukrainian tanks are getting better and better as every day passes, and the question is what does Putin have left and what can he get his hands on? He might be pulling weapons from South Africa now - a few of which could be worrisome (ex. 155mm howitzers, thermal imagers, MRL, MILAN ER AT, Leopard 2's, Modernized Centurion tanks, drones, SAM's, etc.)

https://news.yahoo.com/promised-challenger-2-tanks-already-131912551.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-deliver-abrams-tanks-ukrainian-084900199.html

Just as Palestine is locked in a battle with Israel that went on for years, there is a very real possibility that this conflict will drag out as well. Russia will need to expand southward if they want to rebuild the Soviet Union again, but given how well they do in Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and the 'stans' (Kazakhstan Uzbekistan Kyrgyzstan Turkmenistan Tajikistan), etc. they're pretty screwed. Sure, the Russian military can try to keep taking Ukraine, but losing 1/4 million child-rearing-aged men a year is probably a bad idea. Besides, has ANYONE EVER seen the Swiss take sides before? You know things are bad when even the conflict-adverse, money-loving Swiss bankers flip you the bird.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/swiss-parliament-passes-decision-export-050752690.html

The way I see this resolving with minimal future losses is once the Ukrainians drive out Russia from their territory (by force, since the Russian Government seems too stupid to pull out themselves), then either the UN but more likely NATO, establishes a no-fire buffer zone in the currently occupied territories. If the Russian military is dumb enough to shoot at NATO troops, NATO (unlike the UN) shoots back, so the best move would be for Russia to lick it's wounds while Ukraine reconstructs. UNHCR helps repatriate Ukrainian refugees and brokers the return of Russian bodies scattered across the country, OSCE helps re-integrate the formerly-occupied territories back into the governing system of Ukraine, and NATO De-mining helps Ukraine re-establish territory safe to live in. In the meantime, Ukraine, now bristling with western weaponry make's it's formal bid to join NATO to keep this from ever happening again.


The question is, when will the Ukraine be able to drive Russia out? What’s your theory?


Ooh. Let me rub the crystal ball.. hang on..

Two years at the earliest, if they play it smart (and they have so far); but there are issues. First, once they near the border of Russia, there's a choice to be made. It will largely depend on whether Ukraine decides to hit ammo dumps, transport, HQ's, etc. in Russian territory. But if they don't they could put units in range of Russian artillery and aircraft that they can't preemptively strike so would be dangerous to move too quickly. Better to just hammer Russians in an attrition war like they've been doing, since they're very successful at it. It will force Russia's hand to try another offensive and call up even more conscripts. Russia is at 1.5 M call-up and already showed they had to scrape the bottom of the barrel. The Russians will probably continue to rotate personnel like they've been doing, which will cause a domino effect amongst all Russian military branches of services. My calculation is Russia absolutely maxes out at 6 M call up (which should force a total economy / productivity collapse?), and well before that their economy should slow to unstable or even unsustainable productivity rates that impact the Russian government's ability to effectively govern. Second, Crimean peninsula is a fortress so they'll need to cut it off completely. Not too difficult to do if they can hold and reinforce the land routes and take out Kerch bridge; then they need to be patient and wait it out. Unfortunately, this also gives the Russians time to re-arm, train, re-supply as well; which along with Putin's health, returning refugees, etc. are wildcards.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump will end this terrible war. The day cannot come soon enough.

Voting for trump would be against all my interests but I am seriously considering voting for him just to end the war. I think both countries’ governments are bad, though Russia’s is worse, but I want the war to stop and ordinary people to stop bearing the brunt of their political battles.


Hah! Trump would love to turn the US INTO Russia, but he'll never get another chance. Trump will never again be President of anything, well, except maybe the Federal Prison Golf Club?

In the meantime, Wagner is "using their ammunition to stop the fleeing servicemen of the Russian army"
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1657126013002809346?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Ukrainian tanks are getting better and better as every day passes, and the question is what does Putin have left and what can he get his hands on? He might be pulling weapons from South Africa now - a few of which could be worrisome (ex. 155mm howitzers, thermal imagers, MRL, MILAN ER AT, Leopard 2's, Modernized Centurion tanks, drones, SAM's, etc.)

https://news.yahoo.com/promised-challenger-2-tanks-already-131912551.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-deliver-abrams-tanks-ukrainian-084900199.html

Just as Palestine is locked in a battle with Israel that went on for years, there is a very real possibility that this conflict will drag out as well. Russia will need to expand southward if they want to rebuild the Soviet Union again, but given how well they do in Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and the 'stans' (Kazakhstan Uzbekistan Kyrgyzstan Turkmenistan Tajikistan), etc. they're pretty screwed. Sure, the Russian military can try to keep taking Ukraine, but losing 1/4 million child-rearing-aged men a year is probably a bad idea. Besides, has ANYONE EVER seen the Swiss take sides before? You know things are bad when even the conflict-adverse, money-loving Swiss bankers flip you the bird.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/swiss-parliament-passes-decision-export-050752690.html

The way I see this resolving with minimal future losses is once the Ukrainians drive out Russia from their territory (by force, since the Russian Government seems too stupid to pull out themselves), then either the UN but more likely NATO, establishes a no-fire buffer zone in the currently occupied territories. If the Russian military is dumb enough to shoot at NATO troops, NATO (unlike the UN) shoots back, so the best move would be for Russia to lick it's wounds while Ukraine reconstructs. UNHCR helps repatriate Ukrainian refugees and brokers the return of Russian bodies scattered across the country, OSCE helps re-integrate the formerly-occupied territories back into the governing system of Ukraine, and NATO De-mining helps Ukraine re-establish territory safe to live in. In the meantime, Ukraine, now bristling with western weaponry make's it's formal bid to join NATO to keep this from ever happening again.


The question is, when will the Ukraine be able to drive Russia out? What’s your theory?


If Ukraine can secure airspace that reaches to crimea then yes. They need more patriot batteries and for every on battery they need 3 decoys. Russia does not want them close to the border because they can down all their long range airborne missiles they fire fro their airspace.

If Ukraine and move air defense forward really all they need is napalm. It is highly effective against the terrestrial defenses the Russians have built in the east. It is cheap, super effective and terrifying. Literally, the worst way to die short of serial killer days of torture.

If Ukraine can walk air defense to east and start using their air power with anti personnel munitions Russians will die by the thousands per hour.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump will end this terrible war. The day cannot come soon enough.

Voting for trump would be against all my interests but I am seriously considering voting for him just to end the war. I think both countries’ governments are bad, though Russia’s is worse, but I want the war to stop and ordinary people to stop bearing the brunt of their political battles.


Hah! Trump would love to turn the US INTO Russia, but he'll never get another chance. Trump will never again be President of anything, well, except maybe the Federal Prison Golf Club?

In the meantime, Wagner is "using their ammunition to stop the fleeing servicemen of the Russian army"
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1657126013002809346?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Ukrainian tanks are getting better and better as every day passes, and the question is what does Putin have left and what can he get his hands on? He might be pulling weapons from South Africa now - a few of which could be worrisome (ex. 155mm howitzers, thermal imagers, MRL, MILAN ER AT, Leopard 2's, Modernized Centurion tanks, drones, SAM's, etc.)

https://news.yahoo.com/promised-challenger-2-tanks-already-131912551.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-deliver-abrams-tanks-ukrainian-084900199.html

Just as Palestine is locked in a battle with Israel that went on for years, there is a very real possibility that this conflict will drag out as well. Russia will need to expand southward if they want to rebuild the Soviet Union again, but given how well they do in Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and the 'stans' (Kazakhstan Uzbekistan Kyrgyzstan Turkmenistan Tajikistan), etc. they're pretty screwed. Sure, the Russian military can try to keep taking Ukraine, but losing 1/4 million child-rearing-aged men a year is probably a bad idea. Besides, has ANYONE EVER seen the Swiss take sides before? You know things are bad when even the conflict-adverse, money-loving Swiss bankers flip you the bird.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/swiss-parliament-passes-decision-export-050752690.html

The way I see this resolving with minimal future losses is once the Ukrainians drive out Russia from their territory (by force, since the Russian Government seems too stupid to pull out themselves), then either the UN but more likely NATO, establishes a no-fire buffer zone in the currently occupied territories. If the Russian military is dumb enough to shoot at NATO troops, NATO (unlike the UN) shoots back, so the best move would be for Russia to lick it's wounds while Ukraine reconstructs. UNHCR helps repatriate Ukrainian refugees and brokers the return of Russian bodies scattered across the country, OSCE helps re-integrate the formerly-occupied territories back into the governing system of Ukraine, and NATO De-mining helps Ukraine re-establish territory safe to live in. In the meantime, Ukraine, now bristling with western weaponry make's it's formal bid to join NATO to keep this from ever happening again.


The question is, when will the Ukraine be able to drive Russia out? What’s your theory?


If Ukraine can secure airspace that reaches to crimea then yes. They need more patriot batteries and for every on battery they need 3 decoys. Russia does not want them close to the border because they can down all their long range airborne missiles they fire fro their airspace.

If Ukraine and move air defense forward really all they need is napalm. It is highly effective against the terrestrial defenses the Russians have built in the east. It is cheap, super effective and terrifying. Literally, the worst way to die short of serial killer days of torture.

If Ukraine can walk air defense to east and start using their air power with anti personnel munitions Russians will die by the thousands per hour.


This doesn’t answer my question though. When do you think Ukraine will be ready for some kind of talks? They are saying it’s when they drive out the Russians. So when is it going to be?
What I want to know is when will there be a state of relative stability? Sort of like Israel and Palestine.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump will end this terrible war. The day cannot come soon enough.

Voting for trump would be against all my interests but I am seriously considering voting for him just to end the war. I think both countries’ governments are bad, though Russia’s is worse, but I want the war to stop and ordinary people to stop bearing the brunt of their political battles.


Hah! Trump would love to turn the US INTO Russia, but he'll never get another chance. Trump will never again be President of anything, well, except maybe the Federal Prison Golf Club?

In the meantime, Wagner is "using their ammunition to stop the fleeing servicemen of the Russian army"
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1657126013002809346?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Ukrainian tanks are getting better and better as every day passes, and the question is what does Putin have left and what can he get his hands on? He might be pulling weapons from South Africa now - a few of which could be worrisome (ex. 155mm howitzers, thermal imagers, MRL, MILAN ER AT, Leopard 2's, Modernized Centurion tanks, drones, SAM's, etc.)

https://news.yahoo.com/promised-challenger-2-tanks-already-131912551.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-deliver-abrams-tanks-ukrainian-084900199.html

Just as Palestine is locked in a battle with Israel that went on for years, there is a very real possibility that this conflict will drag out as well. Russia will need to expand southward if they want to rebuild the Soviet Union again, but given how well they do in Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and the 'stans' (Kazakhstan Uzbekistan Kyrgyzstan Turkmenistan Tajikistan), etc. they're pretty screwed. Sure, the Russian military can try to keep taking Ukraine, but losing 1/4 million child-rearing-aged men a year is probably a bad idea. Besides, has ANYONE EVER seen the Swiss take sides before? You know things are bad when even the conflict-adverse, money-loving Swiss bankers flip you the bird.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/swiss-parliament-passes-decision-export-050752690.html

The way I see this resolving with minimal future losses is once the Ukrainians drive out Russia from their territory (by force, since the Russian Government seems too stupid to pull out themselves), then either the UN but more likely NATO, establishes a no-fire buffer zone in the currently occupied territories. If the Russian military is dumb enough to shoot at NATO troops, NATO (unlike the UN) shoots back, so the best move would be for Russia to lick it's wounds while Ukraine reconstructs. UNHCR helps repatriate Ukrainian refugees and brokers the return of Russian bodies scattered across the country, OSCE helps re-integrate the formerly-occupied territories back into the governing system of Ukraine, and NATO De-mining helps Ukraine re-establish territory safe to live in. In the meantime, Ukraine, now bristling with western weaponry make's it's formal bid to join NATO to keep this from ever happening again.


The question is, when will the Ukraine be able to drive Russia out? What’s your theory?


Ooh. Let me rub the crystal ball.. hang on..

Two years at the earliest, if they play it smart (and they have so far); but there are issues. First, once they near the border of Russia, there's a choice to be made. It will largely depend on whether Ukraine decides to hit ammo dumps, transport, HQ's, etc. in Russian territory. But if they don't they could put units in range of Russian artillery and aircraft that they can't preemptively strike so would be dangerous to move too quickly. Better to just hammer Russians in an attrition war like they've been doing, since they're very successful at it. It will force Russia's hand to try another offensive and call up even more conscripts. Russia is at 1.5 M call-up and already showed they had to scrape the bottom of the barrel. The Russians will probably continue to rotate personnel like they've been doing, which will cause a domino effect amongst all Russian military branches of services. My calculation is Russia absolutely maxes out at 6 M call up (which should force a total economy / productivity collapse?), and well before that their economy should slow to unstable or even unsustainable productivity rates that impact the Russian government's ability to effectively govern. Second, Crimean peninsula is a fortress so they'll need to cut it off completely. Not too difficult to do if they can hold and reinforce the land routes and take out Kerch bridge; then they need to be patient and wait it out. Unfortunately, this also gives the Russians time to re-arm, train, re-supply as well; which along with Putin's health, returning refugees, etc. are wildcards.


So basically two years it will be like it is now, with offensives, counteroffensives and all? Sanctions will be added, Russians will be drafted, but overall it will be like this past year?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump will end this terrible war. The day cannot come soon enough.

Voting for trump would be against all my interests but I am seriously considering voting for him just to end the war. I think both countries’ governments are bad, though Russia’s is worse, but I want the war to stop and ordinary people to stop bearing the brunt of their political battles.


Hah! Trump would love to turn the US INTO Russia, but he'll never get another chance. Trump will never again be President of anything, well, except maybe the Federal Prison Golf Club?

In the meantime, Wagner is "using their ammunition to stop the fleeing servicemen of the Russian army"
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1657126013002809346?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Ukrainian tanks are getting better and better as every day passes, and the question is what does Putin have left and what can he get his hands on? He might be pulling weapons from South Africa now - a few of which could be worrisome (ex. 155mm howitzers, thermal imagers, MRL, MILAN ER AT, Leopard 2's, Modernized Centurion tanks, drones, SAM's, etc.)

https://news.yahoo.com/promised-challenger-2-tanks-already-131912551.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-deliver-abrams-tanks-ukrainian-084900199.html

Just as Palestine is locked in a battle with Israel that went on for years, there is a very real possibility that this conflict will drag out as well. Russia will need to expand southward if they want to rebuild the Soviet Union again, but given how well they do in Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and the 'stans' (Kazakhstan Uzbekistan Kyrgyzstan Turkmenistan Tajikistan), etc. they're pretty screwed. Sure, the Russian military can try to keep taking Ukraine, but losing 1/4 million child-rearing-aged men a year is probably a bad idea. Besides, has ANYONE EVER seen the Swiss take sides before? You know things are bad when even the conflict-adverse, money-loving Swiss bankers flip you the bird.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/swiss-parliament-passes-decision-export-050752690.html

The way I see this resolving with minimal future losses is once the Ukrainians drive out Russia from their territory (by force, since the Russian Government seems too stupid to pull out themselves), then either the UN but more likely NATO, establishes a no-fire buffer zone in the currently occupied territories. If the Russian military is dumb enough to shoot at NATO troops, NATO (unlike the UN) shoots back, so the best move would be for Russia to lick it's wounds while Ukraine reconstructs. UNHCR helps repatriate Ukrainian refugees and brokers the return of Russian bodies scattered across the country, OSCE helps re-integrate the formerly-occupied territories back into the governing system of Ukraine, and NATO De-mining helps Ukraine re-establish territory safe to live in. In the meantime, Ukraine, now bristling with western weaponry make's it's formal bid to join NATO to keep this from ever happening again.


The question is, when will the Ukraine be able to drive Russia out? What’s your theory?


If Ukraine can secure airspace that reaches to crimea then yes. They need more patriot batteries and for every on battery they need 3 decoys. Russia does not want them close to the border because they can down all their long range airborne missiles they fire fro their airspace.

If Ukraine and move air defense forward really all they need is napalm. It is highly effective against the terrestrial defenses the Russians have built in the east. It is cheap, super effective and terrifying. Literally, the worst way to die short of serial killer days of torture.

If Ukraine can walk air defense to east and start using their air power with anti personnel munitions Russians will die by the thousands per hour.


This doesn’t answer my question though. When do you think Ukraine will be ready for some kind of talks? They are saying it’s when they drive out the Russians. So when is it going to be?
What I want to know is when will there be a state of relative stability? Sort of like Israel and Palestine.


Ukraine and nato won’t talk. The DMZ to settle this will be on Russian territory. Ukrainians get everything back. Ukraine is de facto nato now and the west won’t settle for less than Russian unconditional surrender (and most likely the dissolution of Russia in general).
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump will end this terrible war. The day cannot come soon enough.

Voting for trump would be against all my interests but I am seriously considering voting for him just to end the war. I think both countries’ governments are bad, though Russia’s is worse, but I want the war to stop and ordinary people to stop bearing the brunt of their political battles.


Hah! Trump would love to turn the US INTO Russia, but he'll never get another chance. Trump will never again be President of anything, well, except maybe the Federal Prison Golf Club?

In the meantime, Wagner is "using their ammunition to stop the fleeing servicemen of the Russian army"
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1657126013002809346?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Ukrainian tanks are getting better and better as every day passes, and the question is what does Putin have left and what can he get his hands on? He might be pulling weapons from South Africa now - a few of which could be worrisome (ex. 155mm howitzers, thermal imagers, MRL, MILAN ER AT, Leopard 2's, Modernized Centurion tanks, drones, SAM's, etc.)

https://news.yahoo.com/promised-challenger-2-tanks-already-131912551.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-deliver-abrams-tanks-ukrainian-084900199.html

Just as Palestine is locked in a battle with Israel that went on for years, there is a very real possibility that this conflict will drag out as well. Russia will need to expand southward if they want to rebuild the Soviet Union again, but given how well they do in Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and the 'stans' (Kazakhstan Uzbekistan Kyrgyzstan Turkmenistan Tajikistan), etc. they're pretty screwed. Sure, the Russian military can try to keep taking Ukraine, but losing 1/4 million child-rearing-aged men a year is probably a bad idea. Besides, has ANYONE EVER seen the Swiss take sides before? You know things are bad when even the conflict-adverse, money-loving Swiss bankers flip you the bird.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/swiss-parliament-passes-decision-export-050752690.html

The way I see this resolving with minimal future losses is once the Ukrainians drive out Russia from their territory (by force, since the Russian Government seems too stupid to pull out themselves), then either the UN but more likely NATO, establishes a no-fire buffer zone in the currently occupied territories. If the Russian military is dumb enough to shoot at NATO troops, NATO (unlike the UN) shoots back, so the best move would be for Russia to lick it's wounds while Ukraine reconstructs. UNHCR helps repatriate Ukrainian refugees and brokers the return of Russian bodies scattered across the country, OSCE helps re-integrate the formerly-occupied territories back into the governing system of Ukraine, and NATO De-mining helps Ukraine re-establish territory safe to live in. In the meantime, Ukraine, now bristling with western weaponry make's it's formal bid to join NATO to keep this from ever happening again.


The question is, when will the Ukraine be able to drive Russia out? What’s your theory?


If Ukraine can secure airspace that reaches to crimea then yes. They need more patriot batteries and for every on battery they need 3 decoys. Russia does not want them close to the border because they can down all their long range airborne missiles they fire fro their airspace.

If Ukraine and move air defense forward really all they need is napalm. It is highly effective against the terrestrial defenses the Russians have built in the east. It is cheap, super effective and terrifying. Literally, the worst way to die short of serial killer days of torture.

If Ukraine can walk air defense to east and start using their air power with anti personnel munitions Russians will die by the thousands per hour.


This doesn’t answer my question though. When do you think Ukraine will be ready for some kind of talks? They are saying it’s when they drive out the Russians. So when is it going to be?
What I want to know is when will there be a state of relative stability? Sort of like Israel and Palestine.


Ukraine won't surrender its territory to Russia. If Russia withdraws back inside its own borders then talks could happen immediately. The end is entirely up to Russia which makes sense because it's an imperialist war of territorial expansion and a war of choice.

Russia's economy can survive maybe another year. It's internal political balance of power is a different but more important issue. As long as Putin is alive they will most likely hang on in some way through the 2024 US Presidential election because the Trump gives them everything hail mary is currently their best and only strategic option for victory left.
Anonymous
I don’t know who is reading this, maybe it’s a bunch of Fox News Tucker types who somehow love Russia and it’s authoritarian ways and wish to emulate that stateside or maybe it’s some paid posters in a computer center in red square who idiotically try to spread their venomous anti-Ukraine propaganda, but fk you.

I am so happy the Ukrainians are showing you idiots what it’s all about. I’m glad hicks in flyover country who are being fed bs about how Ukrainians are Russian spreading people anyway and we should totally not care about Ukraine and basically “it’s not our problem”.

Shut up.

It is our problem and I’m glad we stuck with our allies. I’m glad Mitch McConnell, turtle that he is, stuck with Ukraine. I’m glad we didn’t listen to Russia living trump and we stuck with Ukraine. You people need to shape up. Get with the fking program. You can either be pot autocrat or pro western democracy and standing with our allies. So stand up.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.


Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.


If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.


This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.


Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.


If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.


Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.


Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.


Pretty much anything good that the Soviet Union and Russian Federation ever designed and built came from Ukraine.


So why is Ukraine known as a primarily agrarian nation?

I mean name one Ukrainian non-agri export.


You're the only one here incorrectly insisting their only export is agriculture and that they are not known for any other commodities or commercial products.
Several other people here have pointed out this is not the case. Your own ignorance in the matter is not our problem.


It surely isn't enough to make it true to say that it is. When someone is "known" for someone or a "leader" in something, it would be confirmed by the numbers - sales, capitalization, rankings etc., rather than DCUM opinions. No one provided these yet.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I don’t know who is reading this, maybe it’s a bunch of Fox News Tucker types who somehow love Russia and it’s authoritarian ways and wish to emulate that stateside or maybe it’s some paid posters in a computer center in red square who idiotically try to spread their venomous anti-Ukraine propaganda, but fk you.

I am so happy the Ukrainians are showing you idiots what it’s all about. I’m glad hicks in flyover country who are being fed bs about how Ukrainians are Russian spreading people anyway and we should totally not care about Ukraine and basically “it’s not our problem”.

Shut up.

It is our problem and I’m glad we stuck with our allies. I’m glad Mitch McConnell, turtle that he is, stuck with Ukraine. I’m glad we didn’t listen to Russia living trump and we stuck with Ukraine. You people need to shape up. Get with the fking program. You can either be pot autocrat or pro western democracy and standing with our allies. So stand up.


LOL you sound just like W Bush.

Would you like the list of autocrats the US describes as dear friends and allies?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I don’t know who is reading this, maybe it’s a bunch of Fox News Tucker types who somehow love Russia and it’s authoritarian ways and wish to emulate that stateside or maybe it’s some paid posters in a computer center in red square who idiotically try to spread their venomous anti-Ukraine propaganda, but fk you.

I am so happy the Ukrainians are showing you idiots what it’s all about. I’m glad hicks in flyover country who are being fed bs about how Ukrainians are Russian spreading people anyway and we should totally not care about Ukraine and basically “it’s not our problem”.

Shut up.

It is our problem and I’m glad we stuck with our allies. I’m glad Mitch McConnell, turtle that he is, stuck with Ukraine. I’m glad we didn’t listen to Russia living trump and we stuck with Ukraine. You people need to shape up. Get with the fking program. You can either be pot autocrat or pro western democracy and standing with our allies. So stand up.


My current theory is that it's people from the Embassy looking for news, just like the rest of us, because they're out of the loop and have no idea what is happening.
post reply Forum Index » Political Discussion
Message Quick Reply
Go to: