Teens and alcohol

[Anonymous]

My 14-year old 8th grader is very responsible and I trust her. However, I know that she will eventually be tempted to experiment with alcohol and maybe drugs—just like I was as a (good kid) teenager—and I want her to 1) consider the safety of her surroundings and the people she’s with before she does, 2) never drive or get in a car with people who may be impaired and 3) not do permanent damage to her health (meaning not drinking to blackout, and no pills). I was thinking about telling her those rules and that she can call me to pick her up at any time and I won’t get mad. Has any one successfully navigated this “experimenting with alcohol and/or pot is inevitable for teenagers” approach? I’m not interested in debating the legality or morality of alcohol and drug use. Of course I talk to my kids about the dangers, too, but I also don’t want to hide my head in the sand and pretend that my kid won’t do it—I want to make sure she’s safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 14-year old 8th grader is very responsible and I trust her. However, I know that she will eventually be tempted to experiment with alcohol and maybe drugs—just like I was as a (good kid) teenager—and I want her to 1) consider the safety of her surroundings and the people she’s with before she does, 2) never drive or get in a car with people who may be impaired and 3) not do permanent damage to her health (meaning not drinking to blackout, and no pills). I was thinking about telling her those rules and that she can call me to pick her up at any time and I won’t get mad. Has any one successfully navigated this “experimenting with alcohol and/or pot is inevitable for teenagers” approach? I’m not interested in debating the legality or morality of alcohol and drug use. Of course I talk to my kids about the dangers, too, but I also don’t want to hide my head in the sand and pretend that my kid won’t do it—I want to make sure she’s safe.

Following b/c I'm very interested in responses. And I have a sincere question about this line of thinking. What I don't understand about this is...when I tell my daughter all the "rules" that I think are in her best interest to keep her safe--this is "burying my head in the sand" but when you do it, it is not?...why?...b/c your "rules" are a tad more permissible than mine? What will you do when she decides that your rules are too restrictive and you just don't know how kids are these days...and those pills are totally fine! And "I was only driving a block away..but I had to b/c all the other kids were wasted and I only had one beer."
There is always a reason that kids do things you don't want them to do. And they rarely think it's a BAD idea at the time.

We all want to keep our kids safe. So it's not like I disagree with what you are saying. I just think maybe it's a little naive too think that just because your "rules" are more permissive, this makes your kid less likely to break them.

[Anonymous]

I do think there is truth to what PP seems to be saying here. Most teens rebel a little bit no matter where the boundaries are drawn. And it's worth considering that you might think about making your rules reflect the boundaries slightly tighter than those which you would feel comfortable having your teen break without getting into too much trouble. That way, when she does rebel, she won't have to go too far in order to get the desired rush and reaction. And maybe it won't be something incredibly devastating. Worked with my two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 14-year old 8th grader is very responsible and I trust her. However, I know that she will eventually be tempted to experiment with alcohol and maybe drugs—just like I was as a (good kid) teenager—and I want her to 1) consider the safety of her surroundings and the people she’s with before she does, 2) never drive or get in a car with people who may be impaired and 3) not do permanent damage to her health (meaning not drinking to blackout, and no pills). I was thinking about telling her those rules and that she can call me to pick her up at any time and I won’t get mad. Has any one successfully navigated this “experimenting with alcohol and/or pot is inevitable for teenagers” approach? I’m not interested in debating the legality or morality of alcohol and drug use. Of course I talk to my kids about the dangers, too, but I also don’t want to hide my head in the sand and pretend that my kid won’t do it—I want to make sure she’s safe.

Following b/c I'm very interested in responses. And I have a sincere question about this line of thinking. What I don't understand about this is...when I tell my daughter all the "rules" that I think are in her best interest to keep her safe--this is "burying my head in the sand" but when you do it, it is not?...why?...b/c your "rules" are a tad more permissible than mine? What will you do when she decides that your rules are too restrictive and you just don't know how kids are these days...and those pills are totally fine! And "I was only driving a block away..but I had to b/c all the other kids were wasted and I only had one beer."
There is always a reason that kids do things you don't want them to do. And they rarely think it's a BAD idea at the time.

We all want to keep our kids safe. So it's not like I disagree with what you are saying. I just think maybe it's a little naive too think that just because your "rules" are more permissive, this makes your kid less likely to break them.

Op again. Good points. I’m not trying to say that if I am permissive, she won’t break my rules or that parents who have strict rules are deluding themselves, so I should not have used “burying my head in the sand” because it does sound dismissive and, I guess, moralizing. I actually consider myself to be a fairly strict parent with very high expectations in many other areas. It’s just that, in reflecting on my own teenage years—and as I said, I was a good kid with parents who trusted me and went on to be a happy, successful college student and then adult—I remember being internally motivated not to do some things my peers were doing (smoking cigarettes, ecstasy and acid, for example), but I still drank alcohol and smoked a little pot. And I do think most teenagers will try alcohol during high school, even the ones whose parents forbid it, so I’m just curious if parents here have gotten their teens safely to adulthood with an attitude like mine and if they feel that approach was successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think there is truth to what PP seems to be saying here. Most teens rebel a little bit no matter where the boundaries are drawn. And it's worth considering that you might think about making your rules reflect the boundaries slightly tighter than those which you would feel comfortable having your teen break without getting into too much trouble. That way, when she does rebel, she won't have to go too far in order to get the desired rush and reaction. And maybe it won't be something incredibly devastating. Worked with my two.

Very interesting point. What did you talk about with you kids and what were the boundaries you set for them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 14-year old 8th grader is very responsible and I trust her. However, I know that she will eventually be tempted to experiment with alcohol and maybe drugs—just like I was as a (good kid) teenager—and I want her to 1) consider the safety of her surroundings and the people she’s with before she does, 2) never drive or get in a car with people who may be impaired and 3) not do permanent damage to her health (meaning not drinking to blackout, and no pills). I was thinking about telling her those rules and that she can call me to pick her up at any time and I won’t get mad. Has any one successfully navigated this “experimenting with alcohol and/or pot is inevitable for teenagers” approach? I’m not interested in debating the legality or morality of alcohol and drug use. Of course I talk to my kids about the dangers, too, but I also don’t want to hide my head in the sand and pretend that my kid won’t do it—I want to make sure she’s safe.

Following b/c I'm very interested in responses. And I have a sincere question about this line of thinking. What I don't understand about this is...when I tell my daughter all the "rules" that I think are in her best interest to keep her safe--this is "burying my head in the sand" but when you do it, it is not?...why?...b/c your "rules" are a tad more permissible than mine? What will you do when she decides that your rules are too restrictive and you just don't know how kids are these days...and those pills are totally fine! And "I was only driving a block away..but I had to b/c all the other kids were wasted and I only had one beer."
There is always a reason that kids do things you don't want them to do. And they rarely think it's a BAD idea at the time.

We all want to keep our kids safe. So it's not like I disagree with what you are saying. I just think maybe it's a little naive too think that just because your "rules" are more permissive, this makes your kid less likely to break them.

Op again. Good points. I’m not trying to say that if I am permissive, she won’t break my rules or that parents who have strict rules are deluding themselves, so I should not have used “burying my head in the sand” because it does sound dismissive and, I guess, moralizing. I actually consider myself to be a fairly strict parent with very high expectations in many other areas. It’s just that, in reflecting on my own teenage years—and as I said, I was a good kid with parents who trusted me and went on to be a happy, successful college student and then adult—I remember being internally motivated not to do some things my peers were doing (smoking cigarettes, ecstasy and acid, for example), but I still drank alcohol and smoked a little pot. And I do think most teenagers will try alcohol during high school, even the ones whose parents forbid it, so I’m just curious if parents here have gotten their teens safely to adulthood with an attitude like mine and if they feel that approach was successful.

Well tbh OP, it sounds like your parents were pretty successful in getting _you_ to adulthood with no major issues. So why don't you just try the approach that they took? (What was that approach, btw?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think there is truth to what PP seems to be saying here. Most teens rebel a little bit no matter where the boundaries are drawn. And it's worth considering that you might think about making your rules reflect the boundaries slightly tighter than those which you would feel comfortable having your teen break without getting into too much trouble. That way, when she does rebel, she won't have to go too far in order to get the desired rush and reaction. And maybe it won't be something incredibly devastating. Worked with my two.

Very interesting point. What did you talk about with you kids and what were the boundaries you set for them?

PP that you asked this of here. Our boundaries may seem strict to some, but when it came to drugs/alcohol, we basically said that we will not condone breaking the law. So yes, this included alcohol usage. Just because some high schoolers (or underage college students) do it, doesn't mean that it buys them a free pass if they get caught drinking underage at a party that is raided or at a public park where they're sneaking it with their friends, etc. And we pointed out that violating different laws obviously have different consequences (like there's definitely a hierarchy of offenses, so it's not like we'd treat having a beer the same as stealing from the drug store) but the bottom line is that we weren't comfortable with our kids breaking the law. It seemed like a pretty reasonable argument to make. But we also added the idea that many kids drink because they are bored or don't know how to be social otherwise. And most teens don't really like the taste, so are usually just engaging in the activity to be cool or to get drunk, which can be pretty reckless. So we encouraged them to develop more creative ways to bond with peers. I know one of our kids decided not to drink and the other one did have a few drinks at various parties. But even though I guess you could say that one rebelled in that sense, neither ever thought it was "cool" with us. And I'm actually okay with that because I think for the one who chose to drink, it helped her moderate that so that it wasn't excessive (she didn't want us to know and didn't want to get caught or do something dumb as a result of being wasted, etc.)

For sex...well that was more of a religious matter with us, so maybe it's not relevant to your household, I don't know. But ours was not a hell, fire, brimstone argument. But more of a "you can choose not to follow this path, but this is why we feel that this was designed to be experienced within the context of marriage" etc. One of our boundaries to help limit temptations with this was that we did not allow them to have kids of the opposite sex in their rooms (both our kids happen to be hetero), and no visitors allowed when we weren't home. You can't "control" what they do all the time, obviously, but I think for us it was important to say "this is something we do to help manage the inevitable temptation" not "we don't trust you so these are the rules!" If one of our kids really wanted to, I'm sure they would have (or did?) found a way, but I also think that, for us, it was being consistent with our rules that helped them know that we wanted to create an environment where these rules were easily honored.

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think there is truth to what PP seems to be saying here. Most teens rebel a little bit no matter where the boundaries are drawn. And it's worth considering that you might think about making your rules reflect the boundaries slightly tighter than those which you would feel comfortable having your teen break without getting into too much trouble. That way, when she does rebel, she won't have to go too far in order to get the desired rush and reaction. And maybe it won't be something incredibly devastating. Worked with my two.

Very interesting point. What did you talk about with you kids and what were the boundaries you set for them?

PP that you asked this of here. Our boundaries may seem strict to some, but when it came to drugs/alcohol, we basically said that we will not condone breaking the law. So yes, this included alcohol usage. Just because some high schoolers (or underage college students) do it, doesn't mean that it buys them a free pass if they get caught drinking underage at a party that is raided or at a public park where they're sneaking it with their friends, etc. And we pointed out that violating different laws obviously have different consequences (like there's definitely a hierarchy of offenses, so it's not like we'd treat having a beer the same as stealing from the drug store) but the bottom line is that we weren't comfortable with our kids breaking the law. It seemed like a pretty reasonable argument to make. But we also added the idea that many kids drink because they are bored or don't know how to be social otherwise. And most teens don't really like the taste, so are usually just engaging in the activity to be cool or to get drunk, which can be pretty reckless. So we encouraged them to develop more creative ways to bond with peers. I know one of our kids decided not to drink and the other one did have a few drinks at various parties. But even though I guess you could say that one rebelled in that sense, neither ever thought it was "cool" with us. And I'm actually okay with that because I think for the one who chose to drink, it helped her moderate that so that it wasn't excessive (she didn't want us to know and didn't want to get caught or do something dumb as a result of being wasted, etc.)

For sex...well that was more of a religious matter with us, so maybe it's not relevant to your household, I don't know. But ours was not a hell, fire, brimstone argument. But more of a "you can choose not to follow this path, but this is why we feel that this was designed to be experienced within the context of marriage" etc. One of our boundaries to help limit temptations with this was that we did not allow them to have kids of the opposite sex in their rooms (both our kids happen to be hetero), and no visitors allowed when we weren't home. You can't "control" what they do all the time, obviously, but I think for us it was important to say "this is something we do to help manage the inevitable temptation" not "we don't trust you so these are the rules!" If one of our kids really wanted to, I'm sure they would have (or did?) found a way, but I also think that, for us, it was being consistent with our rules that helped them know that we wanted to create an environment where these rules were easily honored.

Hope this helps.

OP again. Thanks for this response. I agree that I don’t want DD to think I’m cool with the possibility of her drinking and I honk your idea to make the rule stricter than what I will actually accept is a pretty good one.

To the PP who said I turned out ok so I should just do what my parents did—even though I think you’re being facetious, I’ll respond—my parents trusted me because I told them nothing and, in comparison to an extremely difficult older cousin, I didn’t take a lot of parenting. That’s not the type of relationship I have with my kid and she doesn’t have the benefit of the difficult cousin example.

[Anonymous]

I have a 14 year old 8th grader and a 17 year old 11th grader. I have had basically the same conversation OP proposed with both of my kids and I have it pretty much every time by 17 year old goes out. I so often say you can call me and I'll pick you up with no questions that he now rolls his eyes, says he isn't going to be drinking and he will be home by midnight. But it's still important to tell him. He is not very open with me -- so I tell him things and hope they sink in.

My 14 year old DD is more open and talks more. A lot of her friends are juling and vaping and I have told her we do not approve, it's not legal and not healthy. She has said she hasn't done it, but who knows. We keep the same rules and talk often about what we think is important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think there is truth to what PP seems to be saying here. Most teens rebel a little bit no matter where the boundaries are drawn. And it's worth considering that you might think about making your rules reflect the boundaries slightly tighter than those which you would feel comfortable having your teen break without getting into too much trouble. That way, when she does rebel, she won't have to go too far in order to get the desired rush and reaction. And maybe it won't be something incredibly devastating. Worked with my two.

Very interesting point. What did you talk about with you kids and what were the boundaries you set for them?

PP that you asked this of here. Our boundaries may seem strict to some, but when it came to drugs/alcohol, we basically said that we will not condone breaking the law. So yes, this included alcohol usage. Just because some high schoolers (or underage college students) do it, doesn't mean that it buys them a free pass if they get caught drinking underage at a party that is raided or at a public park where they're sneaking it with their friends, etc. And we pointed out that violating different laws obviously have different consequences (like there's definitely a hierarchy of offenses, so it's not like we'd treat having a beer the same as stealing from the drug store) but the bottom line is that we weren't comfortable with our kids breaking the law. It seemed like a pretty reasonable argument to make. But we also added the idea that many kids drink because they are bored or don't know how to be social otherwise. And most teens don't really like the taste, so are usually just engaging in the activity to be cool or to get drunk, which can be pretty reckless. So we encouraged them to develop more creative ways to bond with peers. I know one of our kids decided not to drink and the other one did have a few drinks at various parties. But even though I guess you could say that one rebelled in that sense, neither ever thought it was "cool" with us. And I'm actually okay with that because I think for the one who chose to drink, it helped her moderate that so that it wasn't excessive (she didn't want us to know and didn't want to get caught or do something dumb as a result of being wasted, etc.)

For sex...well that was more of a religious matter with us, so maybe it's not relevant to your household, I don't know. But ours was not a hell, fire, brimstone argument. But more of a "you can choose not to follow this path, but this is why we feel that this was designed to be experienced within the context of marriage" etc. One of our boundaries to help limit temptations with this was that we did not allow them to have kids of the opposite sex in their rooms (both our kids happen to be hetero), and no visitors allowed when we weren't home. You can't "control" what they do all the time, obviously, but I think for us it was important to say "this is something we do to help manage the inevitable temptation" not "we don't trust you so these are the rules!" If one of our kids really wanted to, I'm sure they would have (or did?) found a way, but I also think that, for us, it was being consistent with our rules that helped them know that we wanted to create an environment where these rules were easily honored.

Hope this helps.

This was our approach except that we emphasized sex as belonging in a committed relationship between adults.

We never thought that we controlled everything but we didn’t make it easy for them to drink or have sex either.

Neither of them is a drinker and AFAIK, the younger one (18) is not having sex. Her older brother likely is, but he is 21 and that doesn’t worry me.

[Anonymous]

PP here. See e.g. this study:

https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/adolescentflyer/

Accumulating evidence suggests that alcohol use—and in particular binge drinking—may have negative effects on adolescent development and increase the risk for alcohol dependence later in life.2,3 This underscores the need for parents to help delay or prevent the onset of drinking as long as possible. Parenting styles may influence whether their children follow their advice regarding alcohol use. Every parent is unique, but the ways in which each parent interacts with his or her children can be broadly categorized into four styles:

Authoritarian parents typically exert high control and discipline with low warmth and responsiveness. For example, they respond to bad grades with punishment but let good grades go unnoticed.

Permissive parents typically exert low control and discipline with high warmth and responsiveness. For example, they deem any grades at all acceptable and fail to correct behavior that may lead to bad grades.
Neglectful parents exert low control and discipline as well as low warmth and responsiveness.For example, they show no interest at all in a child’s school performance.

Authoritative parents exert high control and discipline along with high warmth and responsiveness. For example, they offer praise for good grades and use thoughtful discipline and guidance to help improve low grades.4

Regardless of the developmental outcome examined—body image, academic success, or substance abuse—children raised by authoritative parents tend to fare better than their peers.5 This is certainly true when it comes to the issue of underage drinking,6 in part because children raised by such parents learn approaches to problem solving and emotional expression that help protect against the psychological dysfunction that often precedes alcohol misuse.7 The combination of discipline and support by authoritative parents promotes healthy decisionmaking about alcohol and other potential threats to healthy development.8

Modeling

Some parents wonder whether allowing their children to drink in the home will help them develop an appropriate relationship with alcohol. According to most studies this does not appear to be the case. In a study of 6th, 7th, and 8th graders, researchers observed that students whose parents allowed them to drink at home and/or provided them with alcohol experienced the steepest escalation in drinking.9 Other studies suggest that adolescents who are allowed to drink at home drink more heavily outside of the home.10 In contrast, adolescents are less likely to drink heavily if they live in homes where parents have specific rules against drinking at a young age and also drink responsibly themselves.11 However, not all studies suggest that parental provision of alcohol to teens leads to trouble. For instance, one study showed that drinking with a parent in the proper context (such as a sip of alcohol at an important family function) can be a protective factor against excessive drinking.12 In other contexts, parental provision of alcohol serves as a direct risk factor for excessive drinking, as is the case when parents provide alcohol for parties attended or hosted by their adolescents. Collectively, the literature suggests that permissive attitudes toward adolescent drinking, particularly when combined with poor communication and unhealthy modeling, can lead teens into unhealthy relationships with alcohol.

[Anonymous]

So nice to read about parents who care. I live in Colorado (used to live in DC) and parents here host parties for HS seniors and allow them to drink!

Drunk driving is not tolerated and is enforced in a couple of different ways.

I would NEVER in a million years allow my 18yrDD to host a party and look the other way when her underage friends drank. Really shocks me that other parents in town do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. See e.g. this study:

https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/adolescentflyer/

Accumulating evidence suggests that alcohol use—and in particular binge drinking—may have negative effects on adolescent development and increase the risk for alcohol dependence later in life.2,3 This underscores the need for parents to help delay or prevent the onset of drinking as long as possible. Parenting styles may influence whether their children follow their advice regarding alcohol use. Every parent is unique, but the ways in which each parent interacts with his or her children can be broadly categorized into four styles:

Authoritarian parents typically exert high control and discipline with low warmth and responsiveness. For example, they respond to bad grades with punishment but let good grades go unnoticed.

Permissive parents typically exert low control and discipline with high warmth and responsiveness. For example, they deem any grades at all acceptable and fail to correct behavior that may lead to bad grades.
Neglectful parents exert low control and discipline as well as low warmth and responsiveness.For example, they show no interest at all in a child’s school performance.

Authoritative parents exert high control and discipline along with high warmth and responsiveness. For example, they offer praise for good grades and use thoughtful discipline and guidance to help improve low grades.4

Regardless of the developmental outcome examined—body image, academic success, or substance abuse—children raised by authoritative parents tend to fare better than their peers.5 This is certainly true when it comes to the issue of underage drinking,6 in part because children raised by such parents learn approaches to problem solving and emotional expression that help protect against the psychological dysfunction that often precedes alcohol misuse.7 The combination of discipline and support by authoritative parents promotes healthy decisionmaking about alcohol and other potential threats to healthy development.8

Modeling

Some parents wonder whether allowing their children to drink in the home will help them develop an appropriate relationship with alcohol. According to most studies this does not appear to be the case. In a study of 6th, 7th, and 8th graders, researchers observed that students whose parents allowed them to drink at home and/or provided them with alcohol experienced the steepest escalation in drinking.9 Other studies suggest that adolescents who are allowed to drink at home drink more heavily outside of the home.10 In contrast, adolescents are less likely to drink heavily if they live in homes where parents have specific rules against drinking at a young age and also drink responsibly themselves.11 However, not all studies suggest that parental provision of alcohol to teens leads to trouble. For instance, one study showed that drinking with a parent in the proper context (such as a sip of alcohol at an important family function) can be a protective factor against excessive drinking.12 In other contexts, parental provision of alcohol serves as a direct risk factor for excessive drinking, as is the case when parents provide alcohol for parties attended or hosted by their adolescents. Collectively, the literature suggests that permissive attitudes toward adolescent drinking, particularly when combined with poor communication and unhealthy modeling, can lead teens into unhealthy relationships with alcohol.

Thanks for sharing! Very interesting info.