Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Comparatively. We were at the info session on the St A campus for the dual degree program with William and Mary, and the UK families bolted out of there like the building was on fire as soon as the tuition was mentioned. Americans sat there like “hmm tell me more…”

Had a child go through the joint degree program with W&M as their home school. It can be challenging to go back and forth and the educational styles are very different.

A number of students complete the program but some do drop out. Those that have St Andrews as their home school often have the hardest adjustment since they are used to independent learning and find the US concepts of quizzes, multiple exams and multiple short papers to be overbearing.

DC is glad they went through the joint degree program and yes more expensive than instate tuition at W&M and 5 or 6 times more expensive for UK families.

[Anonymous]

Don’t fall for it!

This school is the “pick me girl” of schools for a certain type of American kid.

They lure you in with “we aren’t like the other schools… and we know you are independent with a sense of adventure and maturity.”

And then you get there, and the UK kids look down on you and the services are just meh. These UK schools are cash strapped! And Americans are a necessary evil.

They are using us for money, but god forbid you need their help with visas or housing within twenty miles of campus.

They gaslight you into thinking you’re a high maintenance American, when really they are just hanging on by a bagpipe

[Anonymous]

Housing is definitely an issue at StA - and at a number of other UK universities (e.g., for any college within the federated U. London).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t fall for it!

This school is the “pick me girl” of schools for a certain type of American kid.

They lure you in with “we aren’t like the other schools… and we know you are independent with a sense of adventure and maturity.”

And then you get there, and the UK kids look down on you and the services are just meh. These UK schools are cash strapped! And Americans are a necessary evil.

They are using us for money, but god forbid you need their help with visas or housing within twenty miles of campus.

They gaslight you into thinking you’re a high maintenance American, when really they are just hanging on by a bagpipe

I agree with your post but "cash-strapped" is St Andrews only, not the other schools. That's why St A markets to Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t fall for it!

This school is the “pick me girl” of schools for a certain type of American kid.

They lure you in with “we aren’t like the other schools… and we know you are independent with a sense of adventure and maturity.”

And then you get there, and the UK kids look down on you and the services are just meh. These UK schools are cash strapped! And Americans are a necessary evil.

They are using us for money, but god forbid you need their help with visas or housing within twenty miles of campus.

They gaslight you into thinking you’re a high maintenance American, when really they are just hanging on by a bagpipe

I agree with your post but "cash-strapped" is St Andrews only, not the other schools. That's why St A markets to Americans.

I know academics at several UK universities. All of those academics say their uni would be in financial trouble if they did not take a lot of full-fee foreign students.

[Anonymous]

This thread never dies! It's interesting though. Who cares if they are using us? It sounds like a magnificent adventure!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t fall for it!

This school is the “pick me girl” of schools for a certain type of American kid.

They lure you in with “we aren’t like the other schools… and we know you are independent with a sense of adventure and maturity.”

And then you get there, and the UK kids look down on you and the services are just meh. These UK schools are cash strapped! And Americans are a necessary evil.

They are using us for money, but god forbid you need their help with visas or housing within twenty miles of campus.

They gaslight you into thinking you’re a high maintenance American, when really they are just hanging on by a bagpipe

I agree with your post but "cash-strapped" is St Andrews only, not the other schools. That's why St A markets to Americans.

I know academics at several UK universities. All of those academics say their uni would be in financial trouble if they did not take a lot of full-fee foreign students.

Why don't they charge more then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t fall for it!

This school is the “pick me girl” of schools for a certain type of American kid.

They lure you in with “we aren’t like the other schools… and we know you are independent with a sense of adventure and maturity.”

And then you get there, and the UK kids look down on you and the services are just meh. These UK schools are cash strapped! And Americans are a necessary evil.

They are using us for money, but god forbid you need their help with visas or housing within twenty miles of campus.

They gaslight you into thinking you’re a high maintenance American, when really they are just hanging on by a bagpipe

I agree with your post but "cash-strapped" is St Andrews only, not the other schools. That's why St A markets to Americans.

I know academics at several UK universities. All of those academics say their uni would be in financial trouble if they did not take a lot of full-fee foreign students.

Why don't they charge more then?

It is government controlled. They have just tried signing off on an increase to 10,500 pounds next year going up to 12,500 and being capped there for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if you go on /6thform or thestudentroom, you can read posts by hundreds of British students who pick SA over other schools save Oxford or Cambridge.

My DD is an undergraduate student at a UK uni (not St Andrews). When I asked her about the opinion of the English re: St Andrews she noted that what she had heard was that they weren't too keen to spend four years on a degree that would only take three years to earn in England. I understand that Scotland subsidizes the fourth year for English students but it is still an additional year of study.

Well you and your DD are mis-informed. When you graduate from a Scottish university you do so with an MA or an MSc because of that extra year, it's not 3 years spread across 4, it is a further year of learning, hence the higher degree you leave with.

Not misinformed. It is still considered an undergraduate qualification. No extra credit given. My DC's Cambridge undergraduate degree turns into a MA by right after a few years but no one actually considers it to be a postgraduate degree.

If you do single honours in Scotland, you can enter a PhD course in your field, both in the UK and in the US. So, it is in fact a masters degree.

OMG - you can go strait to a PhD with a three-year undergraduate course. You really need to stop.

1. It's "straight"
2. No you cannot you need an MA / MSc or MPhil

That is false. You do not need a masters or MPhil to apply to a doctorate or DPhil program

Where? At a podunk college in the US maybe but no where in the UK will accept you.

Podunk? Okay. My family member went straight from undergrad to a PhD program at HYP. Didn't need a master's to apply at all. The Master's is just a step along the way to a PhD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Housing is definitely an issue at StA - and at a number of other UK universities (e.g., for any college within the federated U. London).

How does housing work for the joint degree St Andrews W-M program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Housing is definitely an issue at StA - and at a number of other UK universities (e.g., for any college within the federated U. London).

How does housing work for the joint degree St Andrews W-M program?

Can't speak for the WM years, but during the St Andrews years, the students are offered university housing ("halls"). Most (if they are socially well-adjusted), in their second St Andrews year will opt for the private rental market to live with their friends. But the halls experience is enjoyable for one's first year at St Andrews and provides a great platform for your social life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t fall for it!

This school is the “pick me girl” of schools for a certain type of American kid.

They lure you in with “we aren’t like the other schools… and we know you are independent with a sense of adventure and maturity.”

And then you get there, and the UK kids look down on you and the services are just meh. These UK schools are cash strapped! And Americans are a necessary evil.

They are using us for money, but god forbid you need their help with visas or housing within twenty miles of campus.

They gaslight you into thinking you’re a high maintenance American, when really they are just hanging on by a bagpipe

Your bad experience is not universal. If your DC is not independent and savvy, or if they need to be catered to, they absolutely should not go to St Andrews/abroad for university. I cannot stress this enough!

But if your DC is quite independent, can solve problems themselves, is socially savvy... many Americans I know have truly loved the St Andrews experience.

Reliance on full pay internationals for university finances is not unique to St Andrews or the UK. Many US schools might be in a bad position without full pay internationals (Think NYU, think the many state schools with large contingents from China, India, GCC countries).

Yes, the UK will need to adjust its higher ed funding model, but top unis like St Andrews are not at risk despite current pressures. St Andrews is highly sought after by UK and international students, and has very healthy application flows, successful ongoing capital campaign, charitable contributions growing (yes, with many thanks to wealthy American families).

Oxbridge, Uni of London schools, and most "Russell Group" universities will fall in that same boat with stable student populations and diversified income streams (industry partnerships, research, philanthropy). The UK unis at risk of failure are the modern (former polytechnic) ones, some of which may need to evaluate their fitness for purpose in the years ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Housing is definitely an issue at StA - and at a number of other UK universities (e.g., for any college within the federated U. London).

It is, as it is in London, NYC, SF, etc. In StA, the savvy students tend not to face issues as they proactively search or find places through their social networks. I surmise it is the more insular or complacent (or used to parents solving issues) students who end up with lesser or farther housing.

The town and gown are however making strides to tackle this issue - new student housing in town being built by the university (the Grange, North Haugh) and by private developers (Kilrymont Road), and in a massive new development on previously university-owned land (St Andrews West, a whole new extension of the town). Some of these projects are already being completed which will hopefully alleviate some of the pressure on the market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:very positive! illness is rare. Yale had a lawsuit about a kid not being able to return after a mental health leave. it happens all over.

Because it's easy to sue in America. England and Scottland have a different system. If you go there, be prepared. There is no handholding; they ignore alphabet disabilities that our schools give accommodations for; if you get sick you are on your own.

My kid is at Oxford. Before she went he was in frequent contact with the disability services office for ADHD and a severe arthritic condition. It made lots of promises including help with a mattress topper to help the arthritis (she's also on meds for it) because it affects quality of sleep. But once she showed up and had paid her bills there was zero interest from disability services in helping her. Zero. On the ADHD. Also nothing re help with the physical disability. This has also been the experience of her American friends. Do not expect any accommodations and you will be OK. Do your work. Don't make excuses. Be mature in your interactions and you will be fine.

you wanted the school to get a matress topper? trying to understand ..

+1 Much of this St Andrews thread seems to be this kind of disappointed parent. All I can say is prepare and do your research. Most of the American student body at St Andrews are very happy with their choice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t fall for it!

This school is the “pick me girl” of schools for a certain type of American kid.

They lure you in with “we aren’t like the other schools… and we know you are independent with a sense of adventure and maturity.”

And then you get there, and the UK kids look down on you and the services are just meh. These UK schools are cash strapped! And Americans are a necessary evil.

They are using us for money, but god forbid you need their help with visas or housing within twenty miles of campus.

They gaslight you into thinking you’re a high maintenance American, when really they are just hanging on by a bagpipe

I agree with your post but "cash-strapped" is St Andrews only, not the other schools. That's why St A markets to Americans.

I know academics at several UK universities. All of those academics say their uni would be in financial trouble if they did not take a lot of full-fee foreign students.

Not true in my experience. At Oxbridge. St Andrews is famous for its fail after WWII and need to bring in Americans to survive. No other UK university has its problems