Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

England and Scotland have different systems. England is 13 years of school (thru upper 6th form) then 3 years at an English university.

Scottish system is the model for the US, 12 years of school from grade 1 and then 4 years of a Scottish university.

"British" really is incoherent in this narrow context.

The US also has 13 years of schooling if you include kindergarten. In England, they call kindergarten year 1 so the equivalent of the US grade 12 is the English year 13. My DD is a teacher at a public school (US definition) in London. She confirmed this for me when I was confused.

If one is counting K, which now is called "reception year" in many English schools, not usually called "year 1", then England normally has 14 years of school.

It is still 1 more pre-college school year in England than is typical in the US. An upper 6th form student in England usually is 19 or almost 19 yo, vice most US HS seniors being 18 or almost 18 yo.

As noted earlier, the Scottish education system is different.

I have 6 nieces and nephews who have graduated in England in the last six years and all of them were 18.

Misleading. And you did not note the words "usually" and "or almost", but thank you very much for playing.

Unlike PP, I actually went to school in England, and also to university there.

I’m British but I guess that doesn’t count.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

England and Scotland have different systems. England is 13 years of school (thru upper 6th form) then 3 years at an English university.

Scottish system is the model for the US, 12 years of school from grade 1 and then 4 years of a Scottish university.

"British" really is incoherent in this narrow context.

The US also has 13 years of schooling if you include kindergarten. In England, they call kindergarten year 1 so the equivalent of the US grade 12 is the English year 13. My DD is a teacher at a public school (US definition) in London. She confirmed this for me when I was confused.

If one is counting K, which now is called "reception year" in many English schools, not usually called "year 1", then England normally has 14 years of school.

It is still 1 more pre-college school year in England than is typical in the US. An upper 6th form student in England usually is 19 or almost 19 yo, vice most US HS seniors being 18 or almost 18 yo.

As noted earlier, the Scottish education system is different.

I have 6 nieces and nephews who have graduated in England in the last six years and all of them were 18.

Misleading. And you did not note the words "usually" and "or almost", but thank you very much for playing.

Unlike PP, I actually went to school in England, and also to university there.

i think your info is outdated. it's year 13 = 12th grade.

- with 3 kids in english schools

[Anonymous]

“I think there is more to the Op's story- it seems very slanted - their kid is not "back at the beginning." They have a few gen ed requirements that they did not do at ST Andrews. It does sound like the Dean may have been a jerk but this parent and their child are taking no responsibility for the lack of communication and failing grades.“

Well- our “child” was 22 years old and needed 1.5 more years to finish their major at St Andrews (because of time off for illness). After they were terminated, they needed 2 years to finish their major in the States. The credits didn’t transfer equally or smoothly into the US system.

On top of that, tack on another year to get the Gen Ed credits done.

So- three more years to finish in the States instead of 1.5 in UK. $$$

Yes- the Dean was a jerk. Wouldn’t talk to the student. But absolutely following the university’s rules.

Other professors and administrators tried, but could do absolutely nothing, to change dean’s mind and keep student enrolled.

Slanted account of what happened? Well- it was our student’s experience. Even if our student could do it all over again, I wouldn’t recommend it as a parent paying the bills.

College is expensive! It’s nice to think you are sending your money to an institution that won’t just take your money and then refuse to work with you in the event of emergency.

Other families saying they had a better experience there- I believe it. But that’s also because they were lucky- St Andrews was following their own rules the way they dealt with our student.

Possible to have someone more sympathetic who wants to bend the rules, but our student wasn’t lucky, and that was absolutely ok with the University. It’s luck, instead of their policy, to find a sympathetic ally in event of emergency like what our student faced. And when I say emergency I mean - a life event beyond one’s control that threatens one’s ability to stay enrolled.

You can see by a lot of the responses in here- no hand holding, Americans are immature, spoiled, St Andrews only deals with adults, etc etc etc. Different mindset. They do not expect much in the way of services from their free universities over there.

Interestingly, Sally Mapstone is a bit more outspoken lately about the value of foreign students. There’s a lot of recent news about UK severely limiting foreign student visas.

Too bad they terminated our student - we would have happily forked over two more years of tuition!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

England and Scotland have different systems. England is 13 years of school (thru upper 6th form) then 3 years at an English university.

Scottish system is the model for the US, 12 years of school from grade 1 and then 4 years of a Scottish university.

"British" really is incoherent in this narrow context.

The US also has 13 years of schooling if you include kindergarten. In England, they call kindergarten year 1 so the equivalent of the US grade 12 is the English year 13. My DD is a teacher at a public school (US definition) in London. She confirmed this for me when I was confused.

If one is counting K, which now is called "reception year" in many English schools, not usually called "year 1", then England normally has 14 years of school.

It is still 1 more pre-college school year in England than is typical in the US. An upper 6th form student in England usually is 19 or almost 19 yo, vice most US HS seniors being 18 or almost 18 yo.

As noted earlier, the Scottish education system is different.

I have 6 nieces and nephews who have graduated in England in the last six years and all of them were 18.

Misleading. And you did not note the words "usually" and "or almost", but thank you very much for playing.

Unlike PP, I actually went to school in England, and also to university there.

i think your info is outdated. it's year 13 = 12th grade.

- with 3 kids in english schools

Actually you're wrong. year 13 is not 12th grade. England has 1 more year of school than the US.
Reception starts age 4 and is the equivalent of K
Then years 1-13

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“I think there is more to the Op's story- it seems very slanted - their kid is not "back at the beginning." They have a few gen ed requirements that they did not do at ST Andrews. It does sound like the Dean may have been a jerk but this parent and their child are taking no responsibility for the lack of communication and failing grades.“

Well- our “child” was 22 years old and needed 1.5 more years to finish their major at St Andrews (because of time off for illness). After they were terminated, they needed 2 years to finish their major in the States. The credits didn’t transfer equally or smoothly into the US system.

On top of that, tack on another year to get the Gen Ed credits done.

So- three more years to finish in the States instead of 1.5 in UK. $$$

Yes- the Dean was a jerk. Wouldn’t talk to the student. But absolutely following the university’s rules.

Other professors and administrators tried, but could do absolutely nothing, to change dean’s mind and keep student enrolled.

Slanted account of what happened? Well- it was our student’s experience. Even if our student could do it all over again, I wouldn’t recommend it as a parent paying the bills.

College is expensive! It’s nice to think you are sending your money to an institution that won’t just take your money and then refuse to work with you in the event of emergency.

Other families saying they had a better experience there- I believe it. But that’s also because they were lucky- St Andrews was following their own rules the way they dealt with our student.

Possible to have someone more sympathetic who wants to bend the rules, but our student wasn’t lucky, and that was absolutely ok with the University. It’s luck, instead of their policy, to find a sympathetic ally in event of emergency like what our student faced. And when I say emergency I mean - a life event beyond one’s control that threatens one’s ability to stay enrolled.

You can see by a lot of the responses in here- no hand holding, Americans are immature, spoiled, St Andrews only deals with adults, etc etc etc. Different mindset. They do not expect much in the way of services from their free universities over there.

Interestingly, Sally Mapstone is a bit more outspoken lately about the value of foreign students. There’s a lot of recent news about UK severely limiting foreign student visas.

Too bad they terminated our student - we would have happily forked over two more years of tuition!

What school and what Dean? May keep others from making the same mistake.

[Anonymous]

Chiming in late about a similar situation!

They don’t have a way to handle academic failure due to illness- so they lump it in with academic misconduct and then it goes to the academic senate.

If you don’t declare your illness that caused your academic problems within a certain time frame, they will not excuse it, UNLESS someone sympathetic is handling your case.

Very recently, an American student tried and failed to get the diagnosis they suspected because of family history using the NHS available to them at school.

The NHS Dr wouldn’t run the tests and didn’t take family history into account, told the student h they were fine- it was anxiety and dehydration causing the symptoms.

Health deteriorated rapidly further into the semester but they just thought “wow I’m must be really anxious and dehydrated.”

Grades suffered, deadline to declare health problem passed.

Saw their doctor at home over the summer and it was full blown diabetes.

Now trying to untangle an academic mess without a lot of support.

Technically they don’t need to show this student any grace- and it’s a lot easier to just admit a few new Americans than deal with the sick one they have.

I’d recommend this school for a semester or year abroad- the location is beautiful and the student body is international.

A four year commitment for an American, though? A little risky for an undergraduate. It’s so popular now, they really don’t have to try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a friend that went, and ended up transferring out after the first year because she under-estimated how much the short days during most of the school year would affect her. She just found it very dark and depressing. She transferred into a school in New England, which is still cold, but just found the longer days really helpful.

So maybe send them with one of those lights for SAD and a bottle of Vitamin D pills? I think this had just not at all occurred to my friend, and she was unprepared for the physical effects of changing latitude that way.

Same. I had a friend who attended one year before transferring to University of Michigan because Edinburgh was far gloomier than Ann Arbor. The short days can take their toll.

[Anonymous]

18.18% of total students at St. Andrews, are American. Total Americans 1600 out of 8800 students.

[Anonymous]

If the student with the unforeseen health problems DOES get to remain enrolled, waiting to hear now, she has to do another complete year - the courses she failed when she was ill are only offered in the spring.

She can’t just make up the credits over the summer and keep going. She needs to repeat the year.

This is a “you get what you get and you don’t get upset” kind of place. Because it’s free for UK students.

So - since we are used to a different approach here in the US, think about whether this is acceptable for you as the one writing the checks- paying for a university that’s designed to be free, and then rolling with it when they aren’t very responsive or accommodating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18.18% of total students at St. Andrews, are American. Total Americans 1600 out of 8800 students.

That’s a lot of Americans at a smallish University

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:18.18% of total students at St. Andrews, are American. Total Americans 1600 out of 8800 students.

That’s a lot of Americans at a smallish University

Yes, hence this whole thread, and all the people on here saying that this does not have the status in the UK that people here think it does.

[Anonymous]

It would be like if Bucknell suddenly got very hot with international students, a fine school, but let’s be realistic here.

St Andrews administration is sleepy and slow, the academics are limited compared to the breadth at their American counterparts.

It’s a fine school but they are getting too big for their breeches

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the student with the unforeseen health problems DOES get to remain enrolled, waiting to hear now, she has to do another complete year - the courses she failed when she was ill are only offered in the spring.

She can’t just make up the credits over the summer and keep going. She needs to repeat the year.

This is a “you get what you get and you don’t get upset” kind of place. Because it’s free for UK students.

So - since we are used to a different approach here in the US, think about whether this is acceptable for you as the one writing the checks- paying for a university that’s designed to be free, and then rolling with it when they aren’t very responsive or accommodating.

University has not been free for UK students since 1998.

[Anonymous]

Comparatively. We were at the info session on the St A campus for the dual degree program with William and Mary, and the UK families bolted out of there like the building was on fire as soon as the tuition was mentioned. Americans sat there like “hmm tell me more…”

[Anonymous]

That’s the strategy! Each American family pays three times what the UK undergraduate families pay, and they are packing them in.

You get a £9k experience from the administration so keep your expectations low, and your spending money high!

Clubs are fun, and there’s lots of traveling to be had.