terrorist attack in Paris

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:As a Muslim having family in Europe and the US and having lived in both, i'd like to say that American Muslims are way more integrated than their European counterparts. Say what you will about America, but at the end of the day, we remain a nation that not only tolerates but for the most part embraces our differences, our individualities, freedom to worship who we want, how we want. Yes, we are not perfect, and we still have our issues but we are still better than most, and we are still working to get better. And this is why, I as a Muslim love America and will choose it 100 times over France. And this is the sentiment of most American Muslims, while most European Muslims, at least the ones i spoke to felt misunderstood and marginalized by their governments. No wonder, most of the islamophobic cartoons and anti-islam movies were birthed in Europe!

This is not because of anything the U.S. did. This is all because of what the U.S. is - a country that does not tie identity to ethnicity, and does not ask for homogeneity as a condition of membership.

And also, in a very large measure, because the U.S. never had to deal with hordes of poor, uneducated Muslims who can move here as a matter of right. It's not that the U.S. integrates its Muslims better. It's that the U.S. gets a very different Muslim population - more educated, richer, ethnically diverse and not numerous or homogenous enough to live in compact enclaves. A new U.S. immigrant Muslim arrives at its doorstep much better prepared to integrate. We don't have Muslim ghettos because a potential ghetto-dweller never gets a green card (most of the time.)

[Anonymous]

Also, cabinet members are not elected by the voters. All the PP arguing that Muslims are doing well in Europe can say is that Sarkozy appointed three individuals of foreign origin -- common in the US . Knowing Sarkozy, it was probably tokenism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, cabinet members are not elected by the voters. All the PP arguing that Muslims are doing well in Europe can say is that Sarkozy appointed three individuals of foreign origin -- common in the US . Knowing Sarkozy, it was probably tokenism.

talking about splitting hairs. Sarkozy appointed three Muslim cabinet members almost ten years ago. as of today, no Muslim cabinet member in the US, not even as a token.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
funny that you discount Rachida Dati as a Muslim minister of justice "because she does not look or act as a Muslim". she is a Muslim, one of 12 kids of a Muslim impoverished family of the banlieus. there have been other Muslim cabinet members in France, including Rama Yade as Secretary of State for Human Rights Fadéla Amara as Secretary of State for Urban Policies, both nominated in 2007. how many Muslims cabinet members have ever been nominated in the US? zero.

All you can say with confidence about Dati is that she was born into a Muslim family. She doesn't cover. She has a child out of wedlock. She had to sue for paternity. We can split hairs about who is and is not a Muslim, but most practicing Muslims do not look or behave that way. When France elects a covered woman who prays regularly a minister, then you can talk. Until then, all you have is someone with a conveniently non-French name and non-French hair color.

no, we can talk when the US has as the attorney general a Muslim woman who does not cover her hair. France already had one

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:As a Muslim having family in Europe and the US and having lived in both, i'd like to say that American Muslims are way more integrated than their European counterparts. Say what you will about America, but at the end of the day, we remain a nation that not only tolerates but for the most part embraces our differences, our individualities, freedom to worship who we want, how we want. Yes, we are not perfect, and we still have our issues but we are still better than most, and we are still working to get better. And this is why, I as a Muslim love America and will choose it 100 times over France. And this is the sentiment of most American Muslims, while most European Muslims, at least the ones i spoke to felt misunderstood and marginalized by their governments. No wonder, most of the islamophobic cartoons and anti-islam movies were birthed in Europe!

I agree with you that the US, as a country built as a melting pot on tolerance, including religious tolerance and individualism is a great place to live wherever you come from. But I think you are dreaming if you think that a Muslim would be easily elected/nominated in the US to any position with power without his/her religion beign an issue. The fact that a Muslim woman wearing a niqab can live freely in the US is one thing, the fact that the same woman can run for governor and be elected is totally another. di you really believe that a woman wearing a hijab and regularly praying at the Mosque would have no issues being elected in the US as governor or in Congress? I think the very same woman, with the very same platform and experience would have a very different chance of beign elected if she was Cristian or a practicing Muslim coverning her head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
funny that you discount Rachida Dati as a Muslim minister of justice "because she does not look or act as a Muslim". she is a Muslim, one of 12 kids of a Muslim impoverished family of the banlieus. there have been other Muslim cabinet members in France, including Rama Yade as Secretary of State for Human Rights Fadéla Amara as Secretary of State for Urban Policies, both nominated in 2007. how many Muslims cabinet members have ever been nominated in the US? zero.

All you can say with confidence about Dati is that she was born into a Muslim family. She doesn't cover. She has a child out of wedlock. She had to sue for paternity. We can split hairs about who is and is not a Muslim, but most practicing Muslims do not look or behave that way. When France elects a covered woman who prays regularly a minister, then you can talk. Until then, all you have is someone with a conveniently non-French name and non-French hair color.

no, we can talk when the US has as the attorney general a Muslim woman who does not cover her hair. France already had one

Our Secretary of State had a closest aide (Huma Abedin) who's as Muslim as Dati. You are confusing women born into Muslim families with practicing Muslim women.

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:As a Muslim having family in Europe and the US and having lived in both, i'd like to say that American Muslims are way more integrated than their European counterparts. Say what you will about America, but at the end of the day, we remain a nation that not only tolerates but for the most part embraces our differences, our individualities, freedom to worship who we want, how we want. Yes, we are not perfect, and we still have our issues but we are still better than most, and we are still working to get better. And this is why, I as a Muslim love America and will choose it 100 times over France. And this is the sentiment of most American Muslims, while most European Muslims, at least the ones i spoke to felt misunderstood and marginalized by their governments. No wonder, most of the islamophobic cartoons and anti-islam movies were birthed in Europe!

I agree with you that the US, as a country built as a melting pot on tolerance, including religious tolerance and individualism is a great place to live wherever you come from. But I think you are dreaming if you think that a Muslim would be easily elected/nominated in the US to any position with power without his/her religion beign an issue. The fact that a Muslim woman wearing a niqab can live freely in the US is one thing, the fact that the same woman can run for governor and be elected is totally another. di you really believe that a woman wearing a hijab and regularly praying at the Mosque would have no issues being elected in the US as governor or in Congress? I think the very same woman, with the very same platform and experience would have a very different chance of beign elected if she was Cristian or a practicing Muslim coverning her head.

I never said that! I didn't comment on Muslims being elected at all. Of course, the society we live in is not ready for it, but it is constantly changing, so who knows? Maybe my children or grandchildren will see that in their lifetime!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
funny that you discount Rachida Dati as a Muslim minister of justice "because she does not look or act as a Muslim". she is a Muslim, one of 12 kids of a Muslim impoverished family of the banlieus. there have been other Muslim cabinet members in France, including Rama Yade as Secretary of State for Human Rights Fadéla Amara as Secretary of State for Urban Policies, both nominated in 2007. how many Muslims cabinet members have ever been nominated in the US? zero.

All you can say with confidence about Dati is that she was born into a Muslim family. She doesn't cover. She has a child out of wedlock. She had to sue for paternity. We can split hairs about who is and is not a Muslim, but most practicing Muslims do not look or behave that way. When France elects a covered woman who prays regularly a minister, then you can talk. Until then, all you have is someone with a conveniently non-French name and non-French hair color.

no, we can talk when the US has as the attorney general a Muslim woman who does not cover her hair. France already had one

Our Secretary of State had a closest aide (Huma Abedin) who's as Muslim as Dati. You are confusing women born into Muslim families with practicing Muslim women.

ok, so we can talk when Huma Abedin becomes attorney general, like Dati, or Secretary of State

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, cabinet members are not elected by the voters. All the PP arguing that Muslims are doing well in Europe can say is that Sarkozy appointed three individuals of foreign origin -- common in the US . Knowing Sarkozy, it was probably tokenism.

talking about splitting hairs. Sarkozy appointed three Muslim cabinet members almost ten years ago. as of today, no Muslim cabinet member in the US, not even as a token.

The original question was about the people electing someone, not a cabinet nomination. Since Muslims are a tiny group in the US, while they are the main immigrant group in France, The appropriate comparison about openness in the US political system would be to consider a similarly larger minority or immigrant group -- for example, Latinos, of which there are a number of *elected * governors and numerous elected officials at the , cabinet members, and a Supreme Court Justice. It would be absurd to say that, since Sarkozy didn't nominate a Latino, then the situation of Latinos is worse in France than in the US. One needs to compare what's comparable.

By the way, a quick Google search shows numerous Muslims elected by the popular vote (not just nominated out of tokenism) at the federal and state level.

So, given the rising level of Xenophobia and Islamophobia, why don't you answer the question: do you think the French are ready to take the seemingly trivial step of electing someone with a Muslim name as president? Yes or no. It's a simple question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
funny that you discount Rachida Dati as a Muslim minister of justice "because she does not look or act as a Muslim". she is a Muslim, one of 12 kids of a Muslim impoverished family of the banlieus. there have been other Muslim cabinet members in France, including Rama Yade as Secretary of State for Human Rights Fadéla Amara as Secretary of State for Urban Policies, both nominated in 2007. how many Muslims cabinet members have ever been nominated in the US? zero.

All you can say with confidence about Dati is that she was born into a Muslim family. She doesn't cover. She has a child out of wedlock. She had to sue for paternity. We can split hairs about who is and is not a Muslim, but most practicing Muslims do not look or behave that way. When France elects a covered woman who prays regularly a minister, then you can talk. Until then, all you have is someone with a conveniently non-French name and non-French hair color.

no, we can talk when the US has as the attorney general a Muslim woman who does not cover her hair. France already had one

Our Secretary of State had a closest aide (Huma Abedin) who's as Muslim as Dati. You are confusing women born into Muslim families with practicing Muslim women.

ok, so we can talk when Huma Abedin becomes attorney general, like Dati, or Secretary of State

Tokenism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
funny that you discount Rachida Dati as a Muslim minister of justice "because she does not look or act as a Muslim". she is a Muslim, one of 12 kids of a Muslim impoverished family of the banlieus. there have been other Muslim cabinet members in France, including Rama Yade as Secretary of State for Human Rights Fadéla Amara as Secretary of State for Urban Policies, both nominated in 2007. how many Muslims cabinet members have ever been nominated in the US? zero.

All you can say with confidence about Dati is that she was born into a Muslim family. She doesn't cover. She has a child out of wedlock. She had to sue for paternity. We can split hairs about who is and is not a Muslim, but most practicing Muslims do not look or behave that way. When France elects a covered woman who prays regularly a minister, then you can talk. Until then, all you have is someone with a conveniently non-French name and non-French hair color.

no, we can talk when the US has as the attorney general a Muslim woman who does not cover her hair. France already had one

Our Secretary of State had a closest aide (Huma Abedin) who's as Muslim as Dati. You are confusing women born into Muslim families with practicing Muslim women.

ok, so we can talk when Huma Abedin becomes attorney general, like Dati, or Secretary of State

Who?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
funny that you discount Rachida Dati as a Muslim minister of justice "because she does not look or act as a Muslim". she is a Muslim, one of 12 kids of a Muslim impoverished family of the banlieus. there have been other Muslim cabinet members in France, including Rama Yade as Secretary of State for Human Rights Fadéla Amara as Secretary of State for Urban Policies, both nominated in 2007. how many Muslims cabinet members have ever been nominated in the US? zero.

All you can say with confidence about Dati is that she was born into a Muslim family. She doesn't cover. She has a child out of wedlock. She had to sue for paternity. We can split hairs about who is and is not a Muslim, but most practicing Muslims do not look or behave that way. When France elects a covered woman who prays regularly a minister, then you can talk. Until then, all you have is someone with a conveniently non-French name and non-French hair color.

no, we can talk when the US has as the attorney general a Muslim woman who does not cover her hair. France already had one

Our Secretary of State had a closest aide (Huma Abedin) who's as Muslim as Dati. You are confusing women born into Muslim families with practicing Muslim women.

ok, so we can talk when Huma Abedin becomes attorney general, like Dati, or Secretary of State

Who?

Mrs. Anthony Weiner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
funny that you discount Rachida Dati as a Muslim minister of justice "because she does not look or act as a Muslim". she is a Muslim, one of 12 kids of a Muslim impoverished family of the banlieus. there have been other Muslim cabinet members in France, including Rama Yade as Secretary of State for Human Rights Fadéla Amara as Secretary of State for Urban Policies, both nominated in 2007. how many Muslims cabinet members have ever been nominated in the US? zero.

All you can say with confidence about Dati is that she was born into a Muslim family. She doesn't cover. She has a child out of wedlock. She had to sue for paternity. We can split hairs about who is and is not a Muslim, but most practicing Muslims do not look or behave that way. When France elects a covered woman who prays regularly a minister, then you can talk. Until then, all you have is someone with a conveniently non-French name and non-French hair color.

no, we can talk when the US has as the attorney general a Muslim woman who does not cover her hair. France already had one

Our Secretary of State had a closest aide (Huma Abedin) who's as Muslim as Dati. You are confusing women born into Muslim families with practicing Muslim women.

ok, so we can talk when Huma Abedin becomes attorney general, like Dati, or Secretary of State

You are both missing the point. Huma Abedin is as Muslim as Rachida Dati: that is, not at all, or in the name only. Neither of them cover. One is married to a Jewish man (a life-size haram for a practicing Muslim woman), the other a single, unwed mother (an even bigger haram). None are relatable role models for believing, practicing Muslim women. It doesn't matter if they were elected the Roman Pope.

[Anonymous]

It's hard to find, but it seems like there was no Muslim *elected* at the French National Assembly (at least in the 2007 elections), while there are two Muslims in the US House of Representatives, despite the fact that there are ten time more Muslims in France relative to the total population.

Note: the French lower house has 577 seats, the US Lower house has 435.

How, who is doing better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, cabinet members are not elected by the voters. All the PP arguing that Muslims are doing well in Europe can say is that Sarkozy appointed three individuals of foreign origin -- common in the US . Knowing Sarkozy, it was probably tokenism.

talking about splitting hairs. Sarkozy appointed three Muslim cabinet members almost ten years ago. as of today, no Muslim cabinet member in the US, not even as a token.

The original question was about the people electing someone, not a cabinet nomination. Since Muslims are a tiny group in the US, while they are the main immigrant group in France, The appropriate comparison about openness in the US political system would be to consider a similarly larger minority or immigrant group -- for example, Latinos, of which there are a number of *elected * governors and numerous elected officials at the , cabinet members, and a Supreme Court Justice. It would be absurd to say that, since Sarkozy didn't nominate a Latino, then the situation of Latinos is worse in France than in the US. One needs to compare what's comparable.

By the way, a quick Google search shows numerous Muslims elected by the popular vote (not just nominated out of tokenism) at the federal and state level.

So, given the rising level of Xenophobia and Islamophobia, why don't you answer the question: do you think the French are ready to take the seemingly trivial step of electing someone with a Muslim name as president? Yes or no. It's a simple question.

I do think French people would elect a Christian President who has a middle name like Hussein. and frankly I would not find it such a big indication of open mindness or tolerance. the real test is if they would elect a practicing Muslim. the fact that you believe that electing a president in the US who is Christian but has a Muslim sounding name (and it would be more correct to say that it sound Arabic) is such a big deal is puzzling.

also, I don't agree with you when you say that a better comparison in the US would be the number of Latinos, not of Muslim. Latinos are still Christians, especially for conservative voters they are more likely to be considered as people who share common religious and social values. the US has had for decades Catholics in the highest elected positions. this is confirmed by this Gallup poll in 2012, where Muslims in the US fare better only of atheists,. while only 7% would not vote for an Hispanic, a whopping 40% would not vote for a Muslim. http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/atheists-muslims-bias-presidential-candidates.aspx