Boundaries assessment update 2023

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If Herndon now has surplus capacity and is closer to some neighborhoods than Langley, it’s just a question of efficiency. It has nothing to do with “social engineering.”

What part of that don’t you get?

You don't make boundary adjustments unless it is needed. Especially, when people have been in a boundary for thirty years. It disrupts families and communities. In this case, it is not needed.

You could make an adjustment in the name of efficiency to reduce recurring transportation costs.

FCPS expanded HHS so now more kids who live closer to the school could go there without it being overcrowded. That wasn’t the case in the mid-90s when they may have had no better alternative than to send kids who lived within a few miles of Loudoun County all the way to Langley.

Anyway, you don’t get to rule out in advance what future School Boards may decide makes sense.

DP. Absolutely. And you don't get to insist on getting your way merely because you're resentful (for whatever reason).

I’m not advocating for a boundary change, only pointing out how a future School Board might reasonably conclude one is appropriate given Herndon’s recent expansion. Try to keep up.

You mean the Herndon HS that is currently at 99% capacity, per the link posted earlier? Oh. Try to keep up.

2024-28 Capital improvement Plan has Herndon HS at 85% capacity in both 2022-23 and 2027-28 (projected).

That was based on a program capacity of 2744 seats and a fall 2022 enrollment of 2341. By the end of last year the enrollment was down to 2328 (still 85%).

The same 85% information that’s in the CIP is on the linked “Capacity Dashboard.”

The only 99% figure I see associated with Herndon HS relates to the accuracy of some of FCPS’s past year-to-year enrollment projections, which is distinct from capacity.

Feel free to share a screenshot of anything demonstrating HHS is at 99% capacity. Given the school’s current capacity, that would mean over 2700 students.

As a policy matter, there would be trade-offs between expanding Herndon’s enrollment and shorter commutes for students who live much closer to Herndon than to Langley. But Langley has less surplus capacity now than Herndon, and a future SB might conclude that it wants to move other students who live closer to Langley than western Great Falls to the school.

It would make much more sense to send Coates or McNair to Herndon.

Not necessarily. Once Centreville has been expanded, some other Westfield neighborhoods to the south may move there, which could weigh in favor of keeping Coates and McNair at Westfield.

And Coates is poorer than Herndon HS, so moving it (as opposed to Forestville) to Herndon would further concentrate poverty there.

1. It is far more likely that Chantilly kids would be sent to Centreville since Chantilly is overcrowded and many Chantilly kids live very close to Centreville, too.
2. Coates has LOTS of new construction and the poverty will be reduced. Expensive townhomes are being built. And, it is much, much closer to Herndon than Westfiedl--or Great Falls, for that matter.

I don’t agree with this analysis since, among other things, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville is actually a park and you’d then be requiring Chantilly kids to cross both Route 66 and Route 29.

And the issue isn’t necessarily limited to whether Coates is closer to Herndon than Great Falls is, but also whether it’s closer to Westfield than Forestville is to Langley.

But, again, no one is making decisions today, nor should any one community act like it has the unique right to dictate what those future decisions might be.

Actually, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville would not involve I66 at all--there the road goes under I66. And, it is right next to a neighborhood that goes to Centreville which already crosses 29.

The point was that Route 66 has been and is likely to continue to be a likely dividing line, not that you’d have to take 66 to get to Centreville HS.

Given the location of Chantilly relative to its current boundaries it’s at least as likely that any areas moved out of Chantilly will be the northern areas rather than the areas near Eleanor Lawrence Park. The southern-most areas are all very convenient to Stringfellow Road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know what the “remove Western Great Falls from Langley” is really about.

Never going to happen, which the last few years have shown.

PP was right that there may have been a time when both Route 7 and Georgetown Pike were less crowded, Herndon was over capacity, Langley had space, and it made sense to send kids west of Springvale Road to Langley.

That was 30 years ago. Now those roads are more congested with commuters heading east from Loudoun, Herndon has been expanded and has space, and Langley could be taking more Tysons kids.

If the next Dranesville School Board member is from Herndon (Robyn Lady), not Great Falls, I could see her pushing through a boundary change. It's not like other members would stop her if she thought it made sense.

.

You are so cute!

Could definitely see Robyn Lady wiping that smug smile off your face!

Are you the same person that gleefully affirmed that every thing would change when Elaine Tholen took over from Strauss?

How’s that working out?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Herndon now has surplus capacity and is closer to some neighborhoods than Langley, it’s just a question of efficiency. It has nothing to do with “social engineering.”

What part of that don’t you get?

You don't make boundary adjustments unless it is needed. Especially, when people have been in a boundary for thirty years. It disrupts families and communities. In this case, it is not needed.

You could make an adjustment in the name of efficiency to reduce recurring transportation costs.

FCPS expanded HHS so now more kids who live closer to the school could go there without it being overcrowded. That wasn’t the case in the mid-90s when they may have had no better alternative than to send kids who lived within a few miles of Loudoun County all the way to Langley.

Anyway, you don’t get to rule out in advance what future School Boards may decide makes sense.

DP. Absolutely. And you don't get to insist on getting your way merely because you're resentful (for whatever reason).

I’m not advocating for a boundary change, only pointing out how a future School Board might reasonably conclude one is appropriate given Herndon’s recent expansion. Try to keep up.

You mean the Herndon HS that is currently at 99% capacity, per the link posted earlier? Oh. Try to keep up.

2024-28 Capital improvement Plan has Herndon HS at 85% capacity in both 2022-23 and 2027-28 (projected).

That was based on a program capacity of 2744 seats and a fall 2022 enrollment of 2341. By the end of last year the enrollment was down to 2328 (still 85%).

The same 85% information that’s in the CIP is on the linked “Capacity Dashboard.”

The only 99% figure I see associated with Herndon HS relates to the accuracy of some of FCPS’s past year-to-year enrollment projections, which is distinct from capacity.

Feel free to share a screenshot of anything demonstrating HHS is at 99% capacity. Given the school’s current capacity, that would mean over 2700 students.

As a policy matter, there would be trade-offs between expanding Herndon’s enrollment and shorter commutes for students who live much closer to Herndon than to Langley. But Langley has less surplus capacity now than Herndon, and a future SB might conclude that it wants to move other students who live closer to Langley than western Great Falls to the school.

It would make much more sense to send Coates or McNair to Herndon.

Not necessarily. Once Centreville has been expanded, some other Westfield neighborhoods to the south may move there, which could weigh in favor of keeping Coates and McNair at Westfield.

And Coates is poorer than Herndon HS, so moving it (as opposed to Forestville) to Herndon would further concentrate poverty there.

1. It is far more likely that Chantilly kids would be sent to Centreville since Chantilly is overcrowded and many Chantilly kids live very close to Centreville, too.
2. Coates has LOTS of new construction and the poverty will be reduced. Expensive townhomes are being built. And, it is much, much closer to Herndon than Westfiedl--or Great Falls, for that matter.

I don’t agree with this analysis since, among other things, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville is actually a park and you’d then be requiring Chantilly kids to cross both Route 66 and Route 29.

And the issue isn’t necessarily limited to whether Coates is closer to Herndon than Great Falls is, but also whether it’s closer to Westfield than Forestville is to Langley.

But, again, no one is making decisions today, nor should any one community act like it has the unique right to dictate what those future decisions might be.

Actually, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville would not involve I66 at all--there the road goes under I66. And, it is right next to a neighborhood that goes to Centreville which already crosses 29.

The point was that Route 66 has been and is likely to continue to be a likely dividing line, not that you’d have to take 66 to get to Centreville HS.

Given the location of Chantilly relative to its current boundaries it’s at least as likely that any areas moved out of Chantilly will be the northern areas rather than the areas near Eleanor Lawrence Park. The southern-most areas are all very convenient to Stringfellow Road.

Those neighborhoods are a lot closer to Centreville than any of the northern neighborhoods to any other high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know what the “remove Western Great Falls from Langley” is really about.

Never going to happen, which the last few years have shown.

PP was right that there may have been a time when both Route 7 and Georgetown Pike were less crowded, Herndon was over capacity, Langley had space, and it made sense to send kids west of Springvale Road to Langley.

That was 30 years ago. Now those roads are more congested with commuters heading east from Loudoun, Herndon has been expanded and has space, and Langley could be taking more Tysons kids.

If the next Dranesville School Board member is from Herndon (Robyn Lady), not Great Falls, I could see her pushing through a boundary change. It's not like other members would stop her if she thought it made sense.

.

You are so cute!

Could definitely see Robyn Lady wiping that smug smile off your face!

Are you the same person that gleefully affirmed that every thing would change when Elaine Tholen took over from Strauss?

How’s that working out?

Say what?

Lady is from Herndon so her perspective is likely to be rather different than Tholen’s.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Herndon now has surplus capacity and is closer to some neighborhoods than Langley, it’s just a question of efficiency. It has nothing to do with “social engineering.”

What part of that don’t you get?

You don't make boundary adjustments unless it is needed. Especially, when people have been in a boundary for thirty years. It disrupts families and communities. In this case, it is not needed.

You could make an adjustment in the name of efficiency to reduce recurring transportation costs.

FCPS expanded HHS so now more kids who live closer to the school could go there without it being overcrowded. That wasn’t the case in the mid-90s when they may have had no better alternative than to send kids who lived within a few miles of Loudoun County all the way to Langley.

Anyway, you don’t get to rule out in advance what future School Boards may decide makes sense.

DP. Absolutely. And you don't get to insist on getting your way merely because you're resentful (for whatever reason).

I’m not advocating for a boundary change, only pointing out how a future School Board might reasonably conclude one is appropriate given Herndon’s recent expansion. Try to keep up.

You mean the Herndon HS that is currently at 99% capacity, per the link posted earlier? Oh. Try to keep up.

2024-28 Capital improvement Plan has Herndon HS at 85% capacity in both 2022-23 and 2027-28 (projected).

That was based on a program capacity of 2744 seats and a fall 2022 enrollment of 2341. By the end of last year the enrollment was down to 2328 (still 85%).

The same 85% information that’s in the CIP is on the linked “Capacity Dashboard.”

The only 99% figure I see associated with Herndon HS relates to the accuracy of some of FCPS’s past year-to-year enrollment projections, which is distinct from capacity.

Feel free to share a screenshot of anything demonstrating HHS is at 99% capacity. Given the school’s current capacity, that would mean over 2700 students.

As a policy matter, there would be trade-offs between expanding Herndon’s enrollment and shorter commutes for students who live much closer to Herndon than to Langley. But Langley has less surplus capacity now than Herndon, and a future SB might conclude that it wants to move other students who live closer to Langley than western Great Falls to the school.

It would make much more sense to send Coates or McNair to Herndon.

Not necessarily. Once Centreville has been expanded, some other Westfield neighborhoods to the south may move there, which could weigh in favor of keeping Coates and McNair at Westfield.

And Coates is poorer than Herndon HS, so moving it (as opposed to Forestville) to Herndon would further concentrate poverty there.

1. It is far more likely that Chantilly kids would be sent to Centreville since Chantilly is overcrowded and many Chantilly kids live very close to Centreville, too.
2. Coates has LOTS of new construction and the poverty will be reduced. Expensive townhomes are being built. And, it is much, much closer to Herndon than Westfiedl--or Great Falls, for that matter.

I don’t agree with this analysis since, among other things, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville is actually a park and you’d then be requiring Chantilly kids to cross both Route 66 and Route 29.

And the issue isn’t necessarily limited to whether Coates is closer to Herndon than Great Falls is, but also whether it’s closer to Westfield than Forestville is to Langley.

But, again, no one is making decisions today, nor should any one community act like it has the unique right to dictate what those future decisions might be.

Actually, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville would not involve I66 at all--there the road goes under I66. And, it is right next to a neighborhood that goes to Centreville which already crosses 29.

The point was that Route 66 has been and is likely to continue to be a likely dividing line, not that you’d have to take 66 to get to Centreville HS.

Given the location of Chantilly relative to its current boundaries it’s at least as likely that any areas moved out of Chantilly will be the northern areas rather than the areas near Eleanor Lawrence Park. The southern-most areas are all very convenient to Stringfellow Road.

Those neighborhoods are a lot closer to Centreville than any of the northern neighborhoods to any other high school.

Perhaps, but there are also areas very close to Centreville that are zoned to Fairfax, yet they may end up staying at Fairfax, too. There are a number of factors that might be considered in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Herndon now has surplus capacity and is closer to some neighborhoods than Langley, it’s just a question of efficiency. It has nothing to do with “social engineering.”

What part of that don’t you get?

You don't make boundary adjustments unless it is needed. Especially, when people have been in a boundary for thirty years. It disrupts families and communities. In this case, it is not needed.

You could make an adjustment in the name of efficiency to reduce recurring transportation costs.

FCPS expanded HHS so now more kids who live closer to the school could go there without it being overcrowded. That wasn’t the case in the mid-90s when they may have had no better alternative than to send kids who lived within a few miles of Loudoun County all the way to Langley.

Anyway, you don’t get to rule out in advance what future School Boards may decide makes sense.

DP. Absolutely. And you don't get to insist on getting your way merely because you're resentful (for whatever reason).

I’m not advocating for a boundary change, only pointing out how a future School Board might reasonably conclude one is appropriate given Herndon’s recent expansion. Try to keep up.

You mean the Herndon HS that is currently at 99% capacity, per the link posted earlier? Oh. Try to keep up.

2024-28 Capital improvement Plan has Herndon HS at 85% capacity in both 2022-23 and 2027-28 (projected).

That was based on a program capacity of 2744 seats and a fall 2022 enrollment of 2341. By the end of last year the enrollment was down to 2328 (still 85%).

The same 85% information that’s in the CIP is on the linked “Capacity Dashboard.”

The only 99% figure I see associated with Herndon HS relates to the accuracy of some of FCPS’s past year-to-year enrollment projections, which is distinct from capacity.

Feel free to share a screenshot of anything demonstrating HHS is at 99% capacity. Given the school’s current capacity, that would mean over 2700 students.

As a policy matter, there would be trade-offs between expanding Herndon’s enrollment and shorter commutes for students who live much closer to Herndon than to Langley. But Langley has less surplus capacity now than Herndon, and a future SB might conclude that it wants to move other students who live closer to Langley than western Great Falls to the school.

It would make much more sense to send Coates or McNair to Herndon.

Not necessarily. Once Centreville has been expanded, some other Westfield neighborhoods to the south may move there, which could weigh in favor of keeping Coates and McNair at Westfield.

And Coates is poorer than Herndon HS, so moving it (as opposed to Forestville) to Herndon would further concentrate poverty there.

1. It is far more likely that Chantilly kids would be sent to Centreville since Chantilly is overcrowded and many Chantilly kids live very close to Centreville, too.
2. Coates has LOTS of new construction and the poverty will be reduced. Expensive townhomes are being built. And, it is much, much closer to Herndon than Westfiedl--or Great Falls, for that matter.

I don’t agree with this analysis since, among other things, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville is actually a park and you’d then be requiring Chantilly kids to cross both Route 66 and Route 29.

And the issue isn’t necessarily limited to whether Coates is closer to Herndon than Great Falls is, but also whether it’s closer to Westfield than Forestville is to Langley.

But, again, no one is making decisions today, nor should any one community act like it has the unique right to dictate what those future decisions might be.

Actually, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville would not involve I66 at all--there the road goes under I66. And, it is right next to a neighborhood that goes to Centreville which already crosses 29.

The point was that Route 66 has been and is likely to continue to be a likely dividing line, not that you’d have to take 66 to get to Centreville HS.

Given the location of Chantilly relative to its current boundaries it’s at least as likely that any areas moved out of Chantilly will be the northern areas rather than the areas near Eleanor Lawrence Park. The southern-most areas are all very convenient to Stringfellow Road.

Those neighborhoods are a lot closer to Centreville than any of the northern neighborhoods to any other high school.

DP. Looking at the most recent CIP, the most logical thing to do would be to rezone the northern part of the Chantilly boundary to Westfield, especially since some neighborhoods north of those neighborhoods are already zoned to Westfield, and Westfield shows at 94% capacity without modulars (vs Chantilly ~115% with modulars). And rezone whatever that cherry picked one neighborhood south of 29/north of 66 from Westfield to Centreville.

[Anonymous]

The one thing you can count on every four years is the Langley mommies getting uptight and nasty before a SB election.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The one thing you can count on every four years is the Langley mommies getting uptight and nasty before a SB election.

The only people even mentioning Langley are those whose kids attend other schools. Case in point ^^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Herndon now has surplus capacity and is closer to some neighborhoods than Langley, it’s just a question of efficiency. It has nothing to do with “social engineering.”

What part of that don’t you get?

You don't make boundary adjustments unless it is needed. Especially, when people have been in a boundary for thirty years. It disrupts families and communities. In this case, it is not needed.

You could make an adjustment in the name of efficiency to reduce recurring transportation costs.

FCPS expanded HHS so now more kids who live closer to the school could go there without it being overcrowded. That wasn’t the case in the mid-90s when they may have had no better alternative than to send kids who lived within a few miles of Loudoun County all the way to Langley.

Anyway, you don’t get to rule out in advance what future School Boards may decide makes sense.

DP. Absolutely. And you don't get to insist on getting your way merely because you're resentful (for whatever reason).

I’m not advocating for a boundary change, only pointing out how a future School Board might reasonably conclude one is appropriate given Herndon’s recent expansion. Try to keep up.

You mean the Herndon HS that is currently at 99% capacity, per the link posted earlier? Oh. Try to keep up.

2024-28 Capital improvement Plan has Herndon HS at 85% capacity in both 2022-23 and 2027-28 (projected).

That was based on a program capacity of 2744 seats and a fall 2022 enrollment of 2341. By the end of last year the enrollment was down to 2328 (still 85%).

The same 85% information that’s in the CIP is on the linked “Capacity Dashboard.”

The only 99% figure I see associated with Herndon HS relates to the accuracy of some of FCPS’s past year-to-year enrollment projections, which is distinct from capacity.

Feel free to share a screenshot of anything demonstrating HHS is at 99% capacity. Given the school’s current capacity, that would mean over 2700 students.

As a policy matter, there would be trade-offs between expanding Herndon’s enrollment and shorter commutes for students who live much closer to Herndon than to Langley. But Langley has less surplus capacity now than Herndon, and a future SB might conclude that it wants to move other students who live closer to Langley than western Great Falls to the school.

It would make much more sense to send Coates or McNair to Herndon.

Not necessarily. Once Centreville has been expanded, some other Westfield neighborhoods to the south may move there, which could weigh in favor of keeping Coates and McNair at Westfield.

And Coates is poorer than Herndon HS, so moving it (as opposed to Forestville) to Herndon would further concentrate poverty there.

1. It is far more likely that Chantilly kids would be sent to Centreville since Chantilly is overcrowded and many Chantilly kids live very close to Centreville, too.
2. Coates has LOTS of new construction and the poverty will be reduced. Expensive townhomes are being built. And, it is much, much closer to Herndon than Westfiedl--or Great Falls, for that matter.

I don’t agree with this analysis since, among other things, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville is actually a park and you’d then be requiring Chantilly kids to cross both Route 66 and Route 29.

And the issue isn’t necessarily limited to whether Coates is closer to Herndon than Great Falls is, but also whether it’s closer to Westfield than Forestville is to Langley.

But, again, no one is making decisions today, nor should any one community act like it has the unique right to dictate what those future decisions might be.

Actually, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville would not involve I66 at all--there the road goes under I66. And, it is right next to a neighborhood that goes to Centreville which already crosses 29.

The point was that Route 66 has been and is likely to continue to be a likely dividing line, not that you’d have to take 66 to get to Centreville HS.

Given the location of Chantilly relative to its current boundaries it’s at least as likely that any areas moved out of Chantilly will be the northern areas rather than the areas near Eleanor Lawrence Park. The southern-most areas are all very convenient to Stringfellow Road.

Those neighborhoods are a lot closer to Centreville than any of the northern neighborhoods to any other high school.

DP. Looking at the most recent CIP, the most logical thing to do would be to rezone the northern part of the Chantilly boundary to Westfield, especially since some neighborhoods north of those neighborhoods are already zoned to Westfield, and Westfield shows at 94% capacity without modulars (vs Chantilly ~115% with modulars). And rezone whatever that cherry picked one neighborhood south of 29/north of 66 from Westfield to Centreville.

Those kids go to ES/MS (Stone) in the Westfield pyramid. Usually when you see something weird like that in a boundary, there's some kind of explanation for it. Stone is way under-enrolled (fewer than 700 students when nearby MSes are at 900+) so they won't want to move any neighborhoods out of it. No one nearby wants their neighborhoods rezoned to Stone. (Stone is 40% poor kids, Rocky Run next door is only 18%)
All Stone kids go to Westfield.

Westfield has 2700+ students already. Why would you add more students? That is far more than FCPS says is the ideal number of HS students per school.

Facilities needs to just decide on a site for a new HS and build it and rezone like Loudoun does. The SB shouldn't be involved at ALL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Herndon now has surplus capacity and is closer to some neighborhoods than Langley, it’s just a question of efficiency. It has nothing to do with “social engineering.”

What part of that don’t you get?

You don't make boundary adjustments unless it is needed. Especially, when people have been in a boundary for thirty years. It disrupts families and communities. In this case, it is not needed.

You could make an adjustment in the name of efficiency to reduce recurring transportation costs.

FCPS expanded HHS so now more kids who live closer to the school could go there without it being overcrowded. That wasn’t the case in the mid-90s when they may have had no better alternative than to send kids who lived within a few miles of Loudoun County all the way to Langley.

Anyway, you don’t get to rule out in advance what future School Boards may decide makes sense.

DP. Absolutely. And you don't get to insist on getting your way merely because you're resentful (for whatever reason).

I’m not advocating for a boundary change, only pointing out how a future School Board might reasonably conclude one is appropriate given Herndon’s recent expansion. Try to keep up.

You mean the Herndon HS that is currently at 99% capacity, per the link posted earlier? Oh. Try to keep up.

2024-28 Capital improvement Plan has Herndon HS at 85% capacity in both 2022-23 and 2027-28 (projected).

That was based on a program capacity of 2744 seats and a fall 2022 enrollment of 2341. By the end of last year the enrollment was down to 2328 (still 85%).

The same 85% information that’s in the CIP is on the linked “Capacity Dashboard.”

The only 99% figure I see associated with Herndon HS relates to the accuracy of some of FCPS’s past year-to-year enrollment projections, which is distinct from capacity.

Feel free to share a screenshot of anything demonstrating HHS is at 99% capacity. Given the school’s current capacity, that would mean over 2700 students.

As a policy matter, there would be trade-offs between expanding Herndon’s enrollment and shorter commutes for students who live much closer to Herndon than to Langley. But Langley has less surplus capacity now than Herndon, and a future SB might conclude that it wants to move other students who live closer to Langley than western Great Falls to the school.

It would make much more sense to send Coates or McNair to Herndon.

Not necessarily. Once Centreville has been expanded, some other Westfield neighborhoods to the south may move there, which could weigh in favor of keeping Coates and McNair at Westfield.

And Coates is poorer than Herndon HS, so moving it (as opposed to Forestville) to Herndon would further concentrate poverty there.

1. It is far more likely that Chantilly kids would be sent to Centreville since Chantilly is overcrowded and many Chantilly kids live very close to Centreville, too.
2. Coates has LOTS of new construction and the poverty will be reduced. Expensive townhomes are being built. And, it is much, much closer to Herndon than Westfiedl--or Great Falls, for that matter.

I don’t agree with this analysis since, among other things, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville is actually a park and you’d then be requiring Chantilly kids to cross both Route 66 and Route 29.

And the issue isn’t necessarily limited to whether Coates is closer to Herndon than Great Falls is, but also whether it’s closer to Westfield than Forestville is to Langley.

But, again, no one is making decisions today, nor should any one community act like it has the unique right to dictate what those future decisions might be.

Actually, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville would not involve I66 at all--there the road goes under I66. And, it is right next to a neighborhood that goes to Centreville which already crosses 29.

The point was that Route 66 has been and is likely to continue to be a likely dividing line, not that you’d have to take 66 to get to Centreville HS.

Given the location of Chantilly relative to its current boundaries it’s at least as likely that any areas moved out of Chantilly will be the northern areas rather than the areas near Eleanor Lawrence Park. The southern-most areas are all very convenient to Stringfellow Road.

Those neighborhoods are a lot closer to Centreville than any of the northern neighborhoods to any other high school.

DP. Looking at the most recent CIP, the most logical thing to do would be to rezone the northern part of the Chantilly boundary to Westfield, especially since some neighborhoods north of those neighborhoods are already zoned to Westfield, and Westfield shows at 94% capacity without modulars (vs Chantilly ~115% with modulars). And rezone whatever that cherry picked one neighborhood south of 29/north of 66 from Westfield to Centreville.

Those kids go to ES/MS (Stone) in the Westfield pyramid. Usually when you see something weird like that in a boundary, there's some kind of explanation for it. Stone is way under-enrolled (fewer than 700 students when nearby MSes are at 900+) so they won't want to move any neighborhoods out of it. No one nearby wants their neighborhoods rezoned to Stone. (Stone is 40% poor kids, Rocky Run next door is only 18%)
All Stone kids go to Westfield.

Westfield has 2700+ students already. Why would you add more students? That is far more than FCPS says is the ideal number of HS students per school.

Facilities needs to just decide on a site for a new HS and build it and rezone like Loudoun does. The SB shouldn't be involved at ALL.

The days of FCPS claiming no high school should have more than 2000 or 2100 kids are long gone. They have expanded many schools well over that number over the past decade and are getting ready to spend $170M to renovate and expand Centreville to 3000.

When they’ve done that they can move part of Westfield to Centreville and part of Chantilly to Westfield. If Silver Line growth pushes Westfield up more, they can move Coates to Herndon. That will postpone any new western HS for another few decades.

I agree high schools should max out well below 2700 kids but we can’t keep pretending they are going to spend over $300K on a new western HS any time soon when they are already spending so much on expansions.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If Herndon now has surplus capacity and is closer to some neighborhoods than Langley, it’s just a question of efficiency. It has nothing to do with “social engineering.”

What part of that don’t you get?

You don't make boundary adjustments unless it is needed. Especially, when people have been in a boundary for thirty years. It disrupts families and communities. In this case, it is not needed.

You could make an adjustment in the name of efficiency to reduce recurring transportation costs.

FCPS expanded HHS so now more kids who live closer to the school could go there without it being overcrowded. That wasn’t the case in the mid-90s when they may have had no better alternative than to send kids who lived within a few miles of Loudoun County all the way to Langley.

Anyway, you don’t get to rule out in advance what future School Boards may decide makes sense.

DP. Absolutely. And you don't get to insist on getting your way merely because you're resentful (for whatever reason).

I’m not advocating for a boundary change, only pointing out how a future School Board might reasonably conclude one is appropriate given Herndon’s recent expansion. Try to keep up.

You mean the Herndon HS that is currently at 99% capacity, per the link posted earlier? Oh. Try to keep up.

2024-28 Capital improvement Plan has Herndon HS at 85% capacity in both 2022-23 and 2027-28 (projected).

That was based on a program capacity of 2744 seats and a fall 2022 enrollment of 2341. By the end of last year the enrollment was down to 2328 (still 85%).

The same 85% information that’s in the CIP is on the linked “Capacity Dashboard.”

The only 99% figure I see associated with Herndon HS relates to the accuracy of some of FCPS’s past year-to-year enrollment projections, which is distinct from capacity.

Feel free to share a screenshot of anything demonstrating HHS is at 99% capacity. Given the school’s current capacity, that would mean over 2700 students.

As a policy matter, there would be trade-offs between expanding Herndon’s enrollment and shorter commutes for students who live much closer to Herndon than to Langley. But Langley has less surplus capacity now than Herndon, and a future SB might conclude that it wants to move other students who live closer to Langley than western Great Falls to the school.

It would make much more sense to send Coates or McNair to Herndon.

Not necessarily. Once Centreville has been expanded, some other Westfield neighborhoods to the south may move there, which could weigh in favor of keeping Coates and McNair at Westfield.

And Coates is poorer than Herndon HS, so moving it (as opposed to Forestville) to Herndon would further concentrate poverty there.

1. It is far more likely that Chantilly kids would be sent to Centreville since Chantilly is overcrowded and many Chantilly kids live very close to Centreville, too.
2. Coates has LOTS of new construction and the poverty will be reduced. Expensive townhomes are being built. And, it is much, much closer to Herndon than Westfiedl--or Great Falls, for that matter.

I don’t agree with this analysis since, among other things, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville is actually a park and you’d then be requiring Chantilly kids to cross both Route 66 and Route 29.

And the issue isn’t necessarily limited to whether Coates is closer to Herndon than Great Falls is, but also whether it’s closer to Westfield than Forestville is to Langley.

But, again, no one is making decisions today, nor should any one community act like it has the unique right to dictate what those future decisions might be.

Actually, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville would not involve I66 at all--there the road goes under I66. And, it is right next to a neighborhood that goes to Centreville which already crosses 29.

The point was that Route 66 has been and is likely to continue to be a likely dividing line, not that you’d have to take 66 to get to Centreville HS.

Given the location of Chantilly relative to its current boundaries it’s at least as likely that any areas moved out of Chantilly will be the northern areas rather than the areas near Eleanor Lawrence Park. The southern-most areas are all very convenient to Stringfellow Road.

Those neighborhoods are a lot closer to Centreville than any of the northern neighborhoods to any other high school.

DP. Looking at the most recent CIP, the most logical thing to do would be to rezone the northern part of the Chantilly boundary to Westfield, especially since some neighborhoods north of those neighborhoods are already zoned to Westfield, and Westfield shows at 94% capacity without modulars (vs Chantilly ~115% with modulars). And rezone whatever that cherry picked one neighborhood south of 29/north of 66 from Westfield to Centreville.

Those kids go to ES/MS (Stone) in the Westfield pyramid. Usually when you see something weird like that in a boundary, there's some kind of explanation for it. Stone is way under-enrolled (fewer than 700 students when nearby MSes are at 900+) so they won't want to move any neighborhoods out of it. No one nearby wants their neighborhoods rezoned to Stone. (Stone is 40% poor kids, Rocky Run next door is only 18%)
All Stone kids go to Westfield.

Westfield has 2700+ students already. Why would you add more students? That is far more than FCPS says is the ideal number of HS students per school.

Facilities needs to just decide on a site for a new HS and build it and rezone like Loudoun does. The SB shouldn't be involved at ALL.

The days of FCPS claiming no high school should have more than 2000 or 2100 kids are long gone. They have expanded many schools well over that number over the past decade and are getting ready to spend $170M to renovate and expand Centreville to 3000.

When they’ve done that they can move part of Westfield to Centreville and part of Chantilly to Westfield. If Silver Line growth pushes Westfield up more, they can move Coates to Herndon. That will postpone any new western HS for another few decades.

I agree high schools should max out well below 2700 kids but we can’t keep pretending they are going to spend over $300K on a new western HS any time soon when they are already spending so much on expansions.

Why would you do a "fruit basket turnover" when there are Chantilly students closer to Centreville than Westfield students?

Just move the neighborhood closest to Centreville from Chantilly. Makes much more sense logistically.

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Anonymous wrote:If Herndon now has surplus capacity and is closer to some neighborhoods than Langley, it’s just a question of efficiency. It has nothing to do with “social engineering.”

What part of that don’t you get?

You don't make boundary adjustments unless it is needed. Especially, when people have been in a boundary for thirty years. It disrupts families and communities. In this case, it is not needed.

You could make an adjustment in the name of efficiency to reduce recurring transportation costs.

FCPS expanded HHS so now more kids who live closer to the school could go there without it being overcrowded. That wasn’t the case in the mid-90s when they may have had no better alternative than to send kids who lived within a few miles of Loudoun County all the way to Langley.

Anyway, you don’t get to rule out in advance what future School Boards may decide makes sense.

DP. Absolutely. And you don't get to insist on getting your way merely because you're resentful (for whatever reason).

I’m not advocating for a boundary change, only pointing out how a future School Board might reasonably conclude one is appropriate given Herndon’s recent expansion. Try to keep up.

You mean the Herndon HS that is currently at 99% capacity, per the link posted earlier? Oh. Try to keep up.

2024-28 Capital improvement Plan has Herndon HS at 85% capacity in both 2022-23 and 2027-28 (projected).

That was based on a program capacity of 2744 seats and a fall 2022 enrollment of 2341. By the end of last year the enrollment was down to 2328 (still 85%).

The same 85% information that’s in the CIP is on the linked “Capacity Dashboard.”

The only 99% figure I see associated with Herndon HS relates to the accuracy of some of FCPS’s past year-to-year enrollment projections, which is distinct from capacity.

Feel free to share a screenshot of anything demonstrating HHS is at 99% capacity. Given the school’s current capacity, that would mean over 2700 students.

As a policy matter, there would be trade-offs between expanding Herndon’s enrollment and shorter commutes for students who live much closer to Herndon than to Langley. But Langley has less surplus capacity now than Herndon, and a future SB might conclude that it wants to move other students who live closer to Langley than western Great Falls to the school.

It would make much more sense to send Coates or McNair to Herndon.

Not necessarily. Once Centreville has been expanded, some other Westfield neighborhoods to the south may move there, which could weigh in favor of keeping Coates and McNair at Westfield.

And Coates is poorer than Herndon HS, so moving it (as opposed to Forestville) to Herndon would further concentrate poverty there.

1. It is far more likely that Chantilly kids would be sent to Centreville since Chantilly is overcrowded and many Chantilly kids live very close to Centreville, too.
2. Coates has LOTS of new construction and the poverty will be reduced. Expensive townhomes are being built. And, it is much, much closer to Herndon than Westfiedl--or Great Falls, for that matter.

I don’t agree with this analysis since, among other things, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville is actually a park and you’d then be requiring Chantilly kids to cross both Route 66 and Route 29.

And the issue isn’t necessarily limited to whether Coates is closer to Herndon than Great Falls is, but also whether it’s closer to Westfield than Forestville is to Langley.

But, again, no one is making decisions today, nor should any one community act like it has the unique right to dictate what those future decisions might be.

Actually, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville would not involve I66 at all--there the road goes under I66. And, it is right next to a neighborhood that goes to Centreville which already crosses 29.

The point was that Route 66 has been and is likely to continue to be a likely dividing line, not that you’d have to take 66 to get to Centreville HS.

Given the location of Chantilly relative to its current boundaries it’s at least as likely that any areas moved out of Chantilly will be the northern areas rather than the areas near Eleanor Lawrence Park. The southern-most areas are all very convenient to Stringfellow Road.

Those neighborhoods are a lot closer to Centreville than any of the northern neighborhoods to any other high school.

DP. Looking at the most recent CIP, the most logical thing to do would be to rezone the northern part of the Chantilly boundary to Westfield, especially since some neighborhoods north of those neighborhoods are already zoned to Westfield, and Westfield shows at 94% capacity without modulars (vs Chantilly ~115% with modulars). And rezone whatever that cherry picked one neighborhood south of 29/north of 66 from Westfield to Centreville.

Those kids go to ES/MS (Stone) in the Westfield pyramid. Usually when you see something weird like that in a boundary, there's some kind of explanation for it. Stone is way under-enrolled (fewer than 700 students when nearby MSes are at 900+) so they won't want to move any neighborhoods out of it. No one nearby wants their neighborhoods rezoned to Stone. (Stone is 40% poor kids, Rocky Run next door is only 18%)
All Stone kids go to Westfield.

Westfield has 2700+ students already. Why would you add more students? That is far more than FCPS says is the ideal number of HS students per school.

Facilities needs to just decide on a site for a new HS and build it and rezone like Loudoun does. The SB shouldn't be involved at ALL.

The days of FCPS claiming no high school should have more than 2000 or 2100 kids are long gone. They have expanded many schools well over that number over the past decade and are getting ready to spend $170M to renovate and expand Centreville to 3000.

When they’ve done that they can move part of Westfield to Centreville and part of Chantilly to Westfield. If Silver Line growth pushes Westfield up more, they can move Coates to Herndon. That will postpone any new western HS for another few decades.

I agree high schools should max out well below 2700 kids but we can’t keep pretending they are going to spend over $300K on a new western HS any time soon when they are already spending so much on expansions.

Why would you do a "fruit basket turnover" when there are Chantilly students closer to Centreville than Westfield students?

Just move the neighborhood closest to Centreville from Chantilly. Makes much more sense logistically.

You can argue over who stays and who gets moved later. But with the expensive Centreville renovation/expansion on the horizon they are putting another nail in the coffin when it comes to a new HS in Western Fairfax any time soon. Those who prefer smaller high schools know they can find them in Loudoun.

[Anonymous]

The days of FCPS claiming no high school should have more than 2000 or 2100 kids are long gone. They have expanded many schools well over that number over the past decade and are getting ready to spend $170M to renovate and expand Centreville to 3000.

I cannot remember how old that policy is--but it was written LONG before the 2008 boundary study for South Lakes. In the meantime, they had built Westfield out to a capacity of 3000--after the policy was written. So Stu Gibson was looking for a justification for the South Lakes redistricting and dug it out of the cellar. Neighborhoods had been redistricted to Westfield from Oakton when Westfield was built and it had not been very long. Then, Stu redistricted them to South Lakes with the help of Kathy Smith. There were families who had kids who attended three different high schools while living in the same house. But, the South Lakes PTSA ran the show. There was even evidence of that on Fairfaxunderground--they put their plans on their PTSA website.

Kathy's part was to send kids to Oakton because the membership at Oakton was depleted. And, she lied to communities during the process.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If Herndon now has surplus capacity and is closer to some neighborhoods than Langley, it’s just a question of efficiency. It has nothing to do with “social engineering.”

What part of that don’t you get?

You don't make boundary adjustments unless it is needed. Especially, when people have been in a boundary for thirty years. It disrupts families and communities. In this case, it is not needed.

You could make an adjustment in the name of efficiency to reduce recurring transportation costs.

FCPS expanded HHS so now more kids who live closer to the school could go there without it being overcrowded. That wasn’t the case in the mid-90s when they may have had no better alternative than to send kids who lived within a few miles of Loudoun County all the way to Langley.

Anyway, you don’t get to rule out in advance what future School Boards may decide makes sense.

DP. Absolutely. And you don't get to insist on getting your way merely because you're resentful (for whatever reason).

I’m not advocating for a boundary change, only pointing out how a future School Board might reasonably conclude one is appropriate given Herndon’s recent expansion. Try to keep up.

You mean the Herndon HS that is currently at 99% capacity, per the link posted earlier? Oh. Try to keep up.

2024-28 Capital improvement Plan has Herndon HS at 85% capacity in both 2022-23 and 2027-28 (projected).

That was based on a program capacity of 2744 seats and a fall 2022 enrollment of 2341. By the end of last year the enrollment was down to 2328 (still 85%).

The same 85% information that’s in the CIP is on the linked “Capacity Dashboard.”

The only 99% figure I see associated with Herndon HS relates to the accuracy of some of FCPS’s past year-to-year enrollment projections, which is distinct from capacity.

Feel free to share a screenshot of anything demonstrating HHS is at 99% capacity. Given the school’s current capacity, that would mean over 2700 students.

As a policy matter, there would be trade-offs between expanding Herndon’s enrollment and shorter commutes for students who live much closer to Herndon than to Langley. But Langley has less surplus capacity now than Herndon, and a future SB might conclude that it wants to move other students who live closer to Langley than western Great Falls to the school.

It would make much more sense to send Coates or McNair to Herndon.

Not necessarily. Once Centreville has been expanded, some other Westfield neighborhoods to the south may move there, which could weigh in favor of keeping Coates and McNair at Westfield.

And Coates is poorer than Herndon HS, so moving it (as opposed to Forestville) to Herndon would further concentrate poverty there.

1. It is far more likely that Chantilly kids would be sent to Centreville since Chantilly is overcrowded and many Chantilly kids live very close to Centreville, too.
2. Coates has LOTS of new construction and the poverty will be reduced. Expensive townhomes are being built. And, it is much, much closer to Herndon than Westfiedl--or Great Falls, for that matter.

I don’t agree with this analysis since, among other things, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville is actually a park and you’d then be requiring Chantilly kids to cross both Route 66 and Route 29.

And the issue isn’t necessarily limited to whether Coates is closer to Herndon than Great Falls is, but also whether it’s closer to Westfield than Forestville is to Langley.

But, again, no one is making decisions today, nor should any one community act like it has the unique right to dictate what those future decisions might be.

Actually, the area of Chantilly closest to Centreville would not involve I66 at all--there the road goes under I66. And, it is right next to a neighborhood that goes to Centreville which already crosses 29.

The point was that Route 66 has been and is likely to continue to be a likely dividing line, not that you’d have to take 66 to get to Centreville HS.

Given the location of Chantilly relative to its current boundaries it’s at least as likely that any areas moved out of Chantilly will be the northern areas rather than the areas near Eleanor Lawrence Park. The southern-most areas are all very convenient to Stringfellow Road.

66 has NOTHING to do with access to Centreville HIgh from that neighborhood. It is not a barrier in any shape of form. That neighborhood is VERY close to Centreville as well as Chantilly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The days of FCPS claiming no high school should have more than 2000 or 2100 kids are long gone. They have expanded many schools well over that number over the past decade and are getting ready to spend $170M to renovate and expand Centreville to 3000.

I cannot remember how old that policy is--but it was written LONG before the 2008 boundary study for South Lakes. In the meantime, they had built Westfield out to a capacity of 3000--after the policy was written. So Stu Gibson was looking for a justification for the South Lakes redistricting and dug it out of the cellar. Neighborhoods had been redistricted to Westfield from Oakton when Westfield was built and it had not been very long. Then, Stu redistricted them to South Lakes with the help of Kathy Smith. There were families who had kids who attended three different high schools while living in the same house. But, the South Lakes PTSA ran the show. There was even evidence of that on Fairfaxunderground--they put their plans on their PTSA website.

Kathy's part was to send kids to Oakton because the membership at Oakton was depleted. And, she lied to communities during the process.

Kathy Smith didn’t really care whether Chantilly kids got moved to Oakton. She went along with Phil Niedzielski-Eichner, who was afraid Oakton teams would suffer with the kids moved to South Lakes.