Sidwell College Admissions This Year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, you do realize that Sidwell actually has a summer internship program for rising seniors and they send all the info out in March/April of junior year. One applies for particular internships, typically writing essays and attaching a resume. Many kids participated last summer. It would be very hard for your kid not to have seen all that info. Also, several kids aggressively pursued opportunities on their own by sending out mass emails and then following up. One absolutely does not need “connections” to do this, just hustle and the ability to stomach a lot of rejection. Doing something productive between junior and senior year is very important, in my opinion. Some internships were more substantive than others, but I sense broadly the kids who did them got something out of them.

I’m the poster who said we don’t have connections. We don’t have the advantage of Sidwell at all - my kid is in a public school. My other kid was at a Big 3 so I know the differences. These threads get hard to follow, but I was referring the benefits of private school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is a hard message to deliver and I apologize in advance. A 3.7 just isn’t all that compelling and neither is a 34 ACT relatively speaking for top 15 universities even coming from a great school like Sidwell. If your kid isn’t a NMF and/or Presidential Scholar candidate and done some substantive internships or academic research outside of school, and hit > 3.9 overall GPA having taken the Math I — Math IV sequence plus all the accelerated 1A sciences plus four years of language, plus a >1560 SAT or 35/36 ACT, you really don’t get on the radar screen of the top 15 schools. Exception is the hooked kids — namely athletes, legacies and URM, but a couple of those hooked kids have the former qualifications, too, making them spectacularly attractive applicants. These schools really know Sidwell and for example understand that a solid A from Math III is a pretty powerful academic signal. I just cannot sit by and continue to watch the Sidwell CCO get trashed the way it is by some folks on this forum. In the aggregate, they are doing a good job in a very challenging and competitive environment. The reality is, putting aside the “branding” element, the top 30 - 50 schools offer a great education. Sidwell parent of senior.

This is a bizarre expectation of any high school student, regardless of what high school they attend. My college student hasn’t had either of those yet, and not for lack of trying.

It is very hard for a regular kid to get those opportunities. But you have a contingent of kids whose parents are academics, doctors, researchers or C suite in Universities, who are able to access these ECs and stand out in college applications.

Ok, so I am a researcher at NIH and my boss calls and says there is a high school kid who wants an internship. What responsiblities am I seriously giving this kid, other than to clean test tubes and MAYBE prep some slides? It is ridiculous to think that I am putting my grant research or academic standing on the line for this.

Still loads better than the zero opportunities my kid has as an unconnected kid. My kid who is great on paper and in person, couldn’t even get a job at the mall.

Then he didn't try very hard. Sorry, but I don't believe this.

Where are you? Because here, even fast food places want experience and more availability than a high school student can offer. It’s 100% true.

Really? In the DMV every kid I knew found a summer place to work just fine. It was just the ones whose families wanted more flexibility for vacations that couldn't find a job. Also, in NoVA very easy to find weekend work. No one gives a thought about experience for these jobs.

Troll. We haven’t had a vacation in 8 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a hard message to deliver and I apologize in advance. A 3.7 just isn’t all that compelling and neither is a 34 ACT relatively speaking for top 15 universities even coming from a great school like Sidwell. If your kid isn’t a NMF and/or Presidential Scholar candidate and done some substantive internships or academic research outside of school, and hit > 3.9 overall GPA having taken the Math I — Math IV sequence plus all the accelerated 1A sciences plus four years of language, plus a >1560 SAT or 35/36 ACT, you really don’t get on the radar screen of the top 15 schools. Exception is the hooked kids — namely athletes, legacies and URM, but a couple of those hooked kids have the former qualifications, too, making them spectacularly attractive applicants. These schools really know Sidwell and for example understand that a solid A from Math III is a pretty powerful academic signal. I just cannot sit by and continue to watch the Sidwell CCO get trashed the way it is by some folks on this forum. In the aggregate, they are doing a good job in a very challenging and competitive environment. The reality is, putting aside the “branding” element, the top 30 - 50 schools offer a great education. Sidwell parent of senior.

This is a bizarre expectation of any high school student, regardless of what high school they attend. My college student hasn’t had either of those yet, and not for lack of trying.

It is very hard for a regular kid to get those opportunities. But you have a contingent of kids whose parents are academics, doctors, researchers or C suite in Universities, who are able to access these ECs and stand out in college applications.

Ok, so I am a researcher at NIH and my boss calls and says there is a high school kid who wants an internship. What responsiblities am I seriously giving this kid, other than to clean test tubes and MAYBE prep some slides? It is ridiculous to think that I am putting my grant research or academic standing on the line for this.

Still loads better than the zero opportunities my kid has as an unconnected kid. My kid who is great on paper and in person, couldn’t even get a job at the mall.

Then he didn't try very hard. Sorry, but I don't believe this.

Where are you? Because here, even fast food places want experience and more availability than a high school student can offer. It’s 100% true.

Really? In the DMV every kid I knew found a summer place to work just fine. It was just the ones whose families wanted more flexibility for vacations that couldn't find a job. Also, in NoVA very easy to find weekend work. No one gives a thought about experience for these jobs.

Troll. We haven’t had a vacation in 8 years.

I'm not a troll. My DC and his friends all had their choice of summer jobs in NoVa and many worked throughout the weekends in HS. There's a huge summer job fair with so many opportunities listed. Camps, tutoring, fast food, Target, fast casual places, lifeguards, etc. I've never lived in a place with so many opportunities for kids to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a hard message to deliver and I apologize in advance. A 3.7 just isn’t all that compelling and neither is a 34 ACT relatively speaking for top 15 universities even coming from a great school like Sidwell. If your kid isn’t a NMF and/or Presidential Scholar candidate and done some substantive internships or academic research outside of school, and hit > 3.9 overall GPA having taken the Math I — Math IV sequence plus all the accelerated 1A sciences plus four years of language, plus a >1560 SAT or 35/36 ACT, you really don’t get on the radar screen of the top 15 schools. Exception is the hooked kids — namely athletes, legacies and URM, but a couple of those hooked kids have the former qualifications, too, making them spectacularly attractive applicants. These schools really know Sidwell and for example understand that a solid A from Math III is a pretty powerful academic signal. I just cannot sit by and continue to watch the Sidwell CCO get trashed the way it is by some folks on this forum. In the aggregate, they are doing a good job in a very challenging and competitive environment. The reality is, putting aside the “branding” element, the top 30 - 50 schools offer a great education. Sidwell parent of senior.

This is a bizarre expectation of any high school student, regardless of what high school they attend. My college student hasn’t had either of those yet, and not for lack of trying.

It is very hard for a regular kid to get those opportunities. But you have a contingent of kids whose parents are academics, doctors, researchers or C suite in Universities, who are able to access these ECs and stand out in college applications.

Ok, so I am a researcher at NIH and my boss calls and says there is a high school kid who wants an internship. What responsiblities am I seriously giving this kid, other than to clean test tubes and MAYBE prep some slides? It is ridiculous to think that I am putting my grant research or academic standing on the line for this.

Still loads better than the zero opportunities my kid has as an unconnected kid. My kid who is great on paper and in person, couldn’t even get a job at the mall.

Then he didn't try very hard. Sorry, but I don't believe this.

There are kids in science research programs that have reached out to a hundred scientists to find a mentor. They just need one yes to create some kind of project. The ones don't actually get to do so something on a lab have done statistical surveys, retrospective projects using existing data, etc. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Please don't encourage this as the norm! This is unsustainable for scientists and professors! I have never gotten more emails from high school students. There are research protections/institutional review boards that do not make this a viable approach. Have your kid find a data set--there are public ones available and do the science themselves. We have more college, graduate, post-doc, and early career people to mentor.

The professionals that gave advice to my young scientists had a very different outlook. One at an ivy and one at a state university. They were amazing and had a tremendous impact on these young students. My students and myself are forever grateful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.

What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.

CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.

They. Do. This.

That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.

DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....

If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.

DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.

Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.

What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.

CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.

They. Do. This.

That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.

DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....

If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.

DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.

Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.

You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a high stats kid from another private school...our college counselors made it very, very clear that all bets are off for ANY college with acceptance rates <20%. Those schools cannot be counted on for any kid. They insisted that kids have at least 3 schools with acceptance rates over 50% and at least one had to have an acceptance rate over 60%. Other than that, kids were strongly encouraged to find at least 5-6 schools in the 20-50 percent range that they could really be happy at.

This seemed to work well when the advice was followed...the ones that ended up unhappy are those who disregarded the advice and just put in a couple of safeties and shotgun 20 plus applications for schools with <15% acceptance rates. These kids and their parents are now blaming the counselor for not doing more.

I'm not saying that is what is going on at Sidwell but it is certainly the case that people are upset that the process/outcomes were different that what they were 4-5 years ago and they didn't want to hear it.

New to this thread..(at least since April surge)...the concerning part of admissions this year is that I hear of SOOO many students who are not accepted to these schools despite having great stats and activities. Maybe for yield protection? It feels very hard these days to feel confident in creating even a list of matches/safeties. Very much hoping that the CCO will be able to gain insight from what happened this year.

Here is an example... The University of Wisconsin has long been seen as a fantastic "safety" for high stats kids. This year, not only did they delay notification for EA until the end of January, but they also waitlisted tens of thousands of applicants, admitting only a half the incoming class (plus yield) on EA, deferring the rest to the RD pool. Add to it, that kids with over 1500 and over 3.6 UW MCPS were part of the deferred or denied group. So all of the sudden, applicants in the 3.2-3.6 range with say 1450 are no longer shoe-ins there. That means applicants start having to look at - I am just making up names - Kansas, Clemson, Indiana, iowa etc for that 100% admission somewhere else.

Right...so you can't put all of your eggs in Wisconsin anymore. Find another >50% (or ideally, >60%) school that has things your kid loves. Preferably one that not everyone in the DMV is fixated on. This is the problem...when only Wisconsin or one or two other schools are deemed as acceptable "safety" schools, they get flooded with applications.

There is nothing special about Wisconsin--it's a great school but it is a flagship state school...so is Ohio State and Indiana and there are (approximately) 47 others. Also some amazing SLACs out there.

OT, but yes, Wisconsin is specail when compared to OSU or Indiana or most other flagships. That is why it is popular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.

What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.

CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.

They. Do. This.

That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.

DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....

If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.

DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.

Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.

You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.

My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.

Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.

What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.

CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.

They. Do. This.

That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.

DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....

If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.

DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.

Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.

You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.

We sat in a zoom call with our CCO, went through each school and where it was on the matrix between reach+ all the way to core safety. Seeing the balance and understanding where any one of the 4 categories needed to be trimmed or expanded. I simply cannot believe that this didn't happen with every student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.

What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.

CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.

They. Do. This.

That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.

DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....

If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.

DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.

Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.

You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.

My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.

Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?

Right, they did not do that bolded stuff with us at any of our meetings. We did ask, repeatedly, and got evasive answers so yes, I am saying that they simply did not answer our questions. We were eventually able to look at a few Naviance charts but not even close to each college on the list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.

What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.

CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.

They. Do. This.

That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.

DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....

If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.

DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.

Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.

You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.

My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.

Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?

Right, they did not do that bolded stuff with us at any of our meetings. We did ask, repeatedly, and got evasive answers so yes, I am saying that they simply did not answer our questions. We were eventually able to look at a few Naviance charts but not even close to each college on the list.

Then you should have scheduled another meeting to go through the list, or send the Director of the office an email.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of a high stats kid from another private school...our college counselors made it very, very clear that all bets are off for ANY college with acceptance rates <20%. Those schools cannot be counted on for any kid. They insisted that kids have at least 3 schools with acceptance rates over 50% and at least one had to have an acceptance rate over 60%. Other than that, kids were strongly encouraged to find at least 5-6 schools in the 20-50 percent range that they could really be happy at.

This seemed to work well when the advice was followed...the ones that ended up unhappy are those who disregarded the advice and just put in a couple of safeties and shotgun 20 plus applications for schools with <15% acceptance rates. These kids and their parents are now blaming the counselor for not doing more.

I'm not saying that is what is going on at Sidwell but it is certainly the case that people are upset that the process/outcomes were different that what they were 4-5 years ago and they didn't want to hear it.

New to this thread..(at least since April surge)...the concerning part of admissions this year is that I hear of SOOO many students who are not accepted to these schools despite having great stats and activities. Maybe for yield protection? It feels very hard these days to feel confident in creating even a list of matches/safeties. Very much hoping that the CCO will be able to gain insight from what happened this year.

Here is an example... The University of Wisconsin has long been seen as a fantastic "safety" for high stats kids. This year, not only did they delay notification for EA until the end of January, but they also waitlisted tens of thousands of applicants, admitting only a half the incoming class (plus yield) on EA, deferring the rest to the RD pool. Add to it, that kids with over 1500 and over 3.6 UW MCPS were part of the deferred or denied group. So all of the sudden, applicants in the 3.2-3.6 range with say 1450 are no longer shoe-ins there. That means applicants start having to look at - I am just making up names - Kansas, Clemson, Indiana, iowa etc for that 100% admission somewhere else.

Right...so you can't put all of your eggs in Wisconsin anymore. Find another >50% (or ideally, >60%) school that has things your kid loves. Preferably one that not everyone in the DMV is fixated on. This is the problem...when only Wisconsin or one or two other schools are deemed as acceptable "safety" schools, they get flooded with applications.

There is nothing special about Wisconsin--it's a great school but it is a flagship state school...so is Ohio State and Indiana and there are (approximately) 47 others. Also some amazing SLACs out there.

OT, but yes, Wisconsin is specail when compared to OSU or Indiana or most other flagships. That is why it is popular.

What makes it "special"? And when a flagship is deemed special and becomes "popular" it cannot be counted on as a safety anymore (see UVA, UMichigan). But, by all means, your kid should apply to Wisconsin...but find other schools that they like that they can count on getting into. A range of schools. Not one safety and 19 reaches. Not one safety, one target and 18 reaches. Because last year's safety may be a target this year.

For the record, I'm from the midwest. Some of the smartest kids in my high school went to Wisconsin. Great school. But some of the smartest also went to Indiana and Ohio State and University of Cincinnati. Former high school classmates of mine who went to these schools are academics, judges, doctors, heads of hospitals. And these schools have only gotten better over time.

[Anonymous]

Does Sidwell send a large number of kids to a particular school or two every year?
For example, at our DCs school, there are many every year to Chicago and Tulane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.

What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.

CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.

They. Do. This.

That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.

DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....

If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.

DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.

Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.

You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.

My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.

Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?

Right, they did not do that bolded stuff with us at any of our meetings. We did ask, repeatedly, and got evasive answers so yes, I am saying that they simply did not answer our questions. We were eventually able to look at a few Naviance charts but not even close to each college on the list.

Then you should have scheduled another meeting to go through the list, or send the Director of the office an email.

We scheduled multiple meetings. Getting additional info was like twisting arms. We were discouraged by the counselor from going through the list in the way that PPs have described.

As to your suggestion that we should have sent Lauren an email: really??? How were we to know what the norm might have been? Also, did you attend the meeting (I think it was back to school night in 10th grade) when Bryan preemptively scolded and warned parents about the past bad treatment of the CCO by parents who came before us? We are respectful of the school by nature, and on top of that the message that Bryan sent was pretty clear that complaining about counselors was not something that would be well received.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a hard message to deliver and I apologize in advance. A 3.7 just isn’t all that compelling and neither is a 34 ACT relatively speaking for top 15 universities even coming from a great school like Sidwell. If your kid isn’t a NMF and/or Presidential Scholar candidate and done some substantive internships or academic research outside of school, and hit > 3.9 overall GPA having taken the Math I — Math IV sequence plus all the accelerated 1A sciences plus four years of language, plus a >1560 SAT or 35/36 ACT, you really don’t get on the radar screen of the top 15 schools. Exception is the hooked kids — namely athletes, legacies and URM, but a couple of those hooked kids have the former qualifications, too, making them spectacularly attractive applicants. These schools really know Sidwell and for example understand that a solid A from Math III is a pretty powerful academic signal. I just cannot sit by and continue to watch the Sidwell CCO get trashed the way it is by some folks on this forum. In the aggregate, they are doing a good job in a very challenging and competitive environment. The reality is, putting aside the “branding” element, the top 30 - 50 schools offer a great education. Sidwell parent of senior.

This is a bizarre expectation of any high school student, regardless of what high school they attend. My college student hasn’t had either of those yet, and not for lack of trying.

It is very hard for a regular kid to get those opportunities. But you have a contingent of kids whose parents are academics, doctors, researchers or C suite in Universities, who are able to access these ECs and stand out in college applications.

Ok, so I am a researcher at NIH and my boss calls and says there is a high school kid who wants an internship. What responsiblities am I seriously giving this kid, other than to clean test tubes and MAYBE prep some slides? It is ridiculous to think that I am putting my grant research or academic standing on the line for this.

Still loads better than the zero opportunities my kid has as an unconnected kid. My kid who is great on paper and in person, couldn’t even get a job at the mall.

Then he didn't try very hard. Sorry, but I don't believe this.

Where are you? Because here, even fast food places want experience and more availability than a high school student can offer. It’s 100% true.

In the DMV, of course. You know - DCUrban Moms.