Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
Right, they did not do that bolded stuff with us at any of our meetings. We did ask, repeatedly, and got evasive answers so yes, I am saying that they simply did not answer our questions. We were eventually able to look at a few Naviance charts but not even close to each college on the list.
Then you should have scheduled another meeting to go through the list, or send the Director of the office an email.
We scheduled multiple meetings. Getting additional info was like twisting arms. We were discouraged by the counselor from going through the list in the way that PPs have described.
As to your suggestion that we should have sent Lauren an email: really??? How were we to know what the norm might have been? Also, did you attend the meeting (I think it was back to school night in 10th grade) when Bryan preemptively scolded and warned parents about the past bad treatment of the CCO by parents who came before us? We are respectful of the school by nature, and on top of that the message that Bryan sent was pretty clear that complaining about counselors was not something that would be well received.
You're still hanging on to information that Bryan gave 2 years ago?
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
Right, they did not do that bolded stuff with us at any of our meetings. We did ask, repeatedly, and got evasive answers so yes, I am saying that they simply did not answer our questions. We were eventually able to look at a few Naviance charts but not even close to each college on the list.
Then you should have scheduled another meeting to go through the list, or send the Director of the office an email.
We scheduled multiple meetings. Getting additional info was like twisting arms. We were discouraged by the counselor from going through the list in the way that PPs have described.
As to your suggestion that we should have sent Lauren an email: really??? How were we to know what the norm might have been? Also, did you attend the meeting (I think it was back to school night in 10th grade) when Bryan preemptively scolded and warned parents about the past bad treatment of the CCO by parents who came before us? We are respectful of the school by nature, and on top of that the message that Bryan sent was pretty clear that complaining about counselors was not something that would be well received.
Then I think you got a raw deal. I’m very surprised to hear that CCO wouldn’t answer your questions or wouldn’t show you Naviance charts for every school on your list. Certainly not our experience. Nor one that I’ve heard before. I’ve heard from plenty of parents who didn’t like the advice they received. I’ve never heard from one before you that CCO wouldn’t answer their reasonable questions. That’s a real shortcoming and one that I’d definitely raise with Lauren.
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
Right, they did not do that bolded stuff with us at any of our meetings. We did ask, repeatedly, and got evasive answers so yes, I am saying that they simply did not answer our questions. We were eventually able to look at a few Naviance charts but not even close to each college on the list.
Then you should have scheduled another meeting to go through the list, or send the Director of the office an email.
We scheduled multiple meetings. Getting additional info was like twisting arms. We were discouraged by the counselor from going through the list in the way that PPs have described.
As to your suggestion that we should have sent Lauren an email: really??? How were we to know what the norm might have been? Also, did you attend the meeting (I think it was back to school night in 10th grade) when Bryan preemptively scolded and warned parents about the past bad treatment of the CCO by parents who came before us? We are respectful of the school by nature, and on top of that the message that Bryan sent was pretty clear that complaining about counselors was not something that would be well received.
You're still hanging on to information that Bryan gave 2 years ago?
It was not "information." Did you attend that meeting? If you did you would know what I am talking about.
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
Right, they did not do that bolded stuff with us at any of our meetings. We did ask, repeatedly, and got evasive answers so yes, I am saying that they simply did not answer our questions. We were eventually able to look at a few Naviance charts but not even close to each college on the list.
Then you should have scheduled another meeting to go through the list, or send the Director of the office an email.
We scheduled multiple meetings. Getting additional info was like twisting arms. We were discouraged by the counselor from going through the list in the way that PPs have described.
As to your suggestion that we should have sent Lauren an email: really??? How were we to know what the norm might have been? Also, did you attend the meeting (I think it was back to school night in 10th grade) when Bryan preemptively scolded and warned parents about the past bad treatment of the CCO by parents who came before us? We are respectful of the school by nature, and on top of that the message that Bryan sent was pretty clear that complaining about counselors was not something that would be well received.
Then I think you got a raw deal. I’m very surprised to hear that CCO wouldn’t answer your questions or wouldn’t show you Naviance charts for every school on your list. Certainly not our experience. Nor one that I’ve heard before. I’ve heard from plenty of parents who didn’t like the advice they received. I’ve never heard from one before you that CCO wouldn’t answer their reasonable questions. That’s a real shortcoming and one that I’d definitely raise with Lauren.
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
Right, they did not do that bolded stuff with us at any of our meetings. We did ask, repeatedly, and got evasive answers so yes, I am saying that they simply did not answer our questions. We were eventually able to look at a few Naviance charts but not even close to each college on the list.
Then you should have scheduled another meeting to go through the list, or send the Director of the office an email.
We scheduled multiple meetings. Getting additional info was like twisting arms. We were discouraged by the counselor from going through the list in the way that PPs have described.
As to your suggestion that we should have sent Lauren an email: really??? How were we to know what the norm might have been? Also, did you attend the meeting (I think it was back to school night in 10th grade) when Bryan preemptively scolded and warned parents about the past bad treatment of the CCO by parents who came before us? We are respectful of the school by nature, and on top of that the message that Bryan sent was pretty clear that complaining about counselors was not something that would be well received.
You're still hanging on to information that Bryan gave 2 years ago?
It was not "information." Did you attend that meeting? If you did you would know what I am talking about.
I probably did - who remembers, that was 2+ years ago. Pre-pandemic and a world away from where we are now. I'm frankly stunned that you would even remember something like that, let alone use it as a reason to not pursue issues with the CCO. I agree with the PP. You should have brought this up with Lauren long before now. I hope this is a lesson to other Sidwell parents who may stumble upon this thread in the coming years.
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
Right, they did not do that bolded stuff with us at any of our meetings. We did ask, repeatedly, and got evasive answers so yes, I am saying that they simply did not answer our questions. We were eventually able to look at a few Naviance charts but not even close to each college on the list.
Then you should have scheduled another meeting to go through the list, or send the Director of the office an email.
We scheduled multiple meetings. Getting additional info was like twisting arms. We were discouraged by the counselor from going through the list in the way that PPs have described.
As to your suggestion that we should have sent Lauren an email: really??? How were we to know what the norm might have been? Also, did you attend the meeting (I think it was back to school night in 10th grade) when Bryan preemptively scolded and warned parents about the past bad treatment of the CCO by parents who came before us? We are respectful of the school by nature, and on top of that the message that Bryan sent was pretty clear that complaining about counselors was not something that would be well received.
You're still hanging on to information that Bryan gave 2 years ago?
It was not "information." Did you attend that meeting? If you did you would know what I am talking about.
I probably did - who remembers, that was 2+ years ago. Pre-pandemic and a world away from where we are now. I'm frankly stunned that you would even remember something like that, let alone use it as a reason to not pursue issues with the CCO. I agree with the PP. You should have brought this up with Lauren long before now. I hope this is a lesson to other Sidwell parents who may stumble upon this thread in the coming years.
Well it certainly made an impression on us, as we felt we were being scolded collectively as parents for something we were not involved in and did not even really know the facts about. But he was very angry--I have never seen him that heated--and I interpreted as a clear message of what was expected (and what would not be tolerated) from parents vis a vis the CCO. I honestly don't know how anyone who was there could have forgotten it. And in my view, if anything the pandemic has required all of us to be more forgiving of others, not less. Since we had no reason to know that other parents were discussing additional information, contacting Lauren would have just seemed like being contentious, complaining about CCO practices and contending that we know better and should be getting more. And I am sure you know how the school generally receives messages like that from parents, right?
I do not interpret the way that we handled this as not pursuing issues with the CCO, because we did pursue it with our child's counselor, until the point where it seemed counterproductive and on the brink of becoming contentious. How were we to know that other counselors were approaching the work differently? For what it is worth, I recall a discussion on this message board from a couple months ago--so after the application process was over--that stated that another family did not like the amount of information they were getting from their counselor and asked for a meeting with Lauren, which ultimately they did have. So I guess this shows that we were not alone in what our counselor discussed with us (and if so why would it be limited to just two families?), though others may have pushed back more.
Did you attend the Zoom parent coffee this winter when Mamadou scoffed at the idea of parent feedback about the CCO? if You did, what does that say about how the school thinks about these things?
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
May I ask whether CCOs are also expected to give feedback on personal statements?
Anonymous wrote:This is a hard message to deliver and I apologize in advance. A 3.7 just isn’t all that compelling and neither is a 34 ACT relatively speaking for top 15 universities even coming from a great school like Sidwell. If your kid isn’t a NMF and/or Presidential Scholar candidate and done some substantive internships or academic research outside of school, and hit > 3.9 overall GPA having taken the Math I — Math IV sequence plus all the accelerated 1A sciences plus four years of language, plus a >1560 SAT or 35/36 ACT, you really don’t get on the radar screen of the top 15 schools. Exception is the hooked kids — namely athletes, legacies and URM, but a couple of those hooked kids have the former qualifications, too, making them spectacularly attractive applicants. These schools really know Sidwell and for example understand that a solid A from Math III is a pretty powerful academic signal. I just cannot sit by and continue to watch the Sidwell CCO get trashed the way it is by some folks on this forum. In the aggregate, they are doing a good job in a very challenging and competitive environment. The reality is, putting aside the “branding” element, the top 30 - 50 schools offer a great education. Sidwell parent of senior.
This is a bizarre expectation of any high school student, regardless of what high school they attend. My college student hasn’t had either of those yet, and not for lack of trying.
It is very hard for a regular kid to get those opportunities. But you have a contingent of kids whose parents are academics, doctors, researchers or C suite in Universities, who are able to access these ECs and stand out in college applications.
Ok, so I am a researcher at NIH and my boss calls and says there is a high school kid who wants an internship. What responsiblities am I seriously giving this kid, other than to clean test tubes and MAYBE prep some slides? It is ridiculous to think that I am putting my grant research or academic standing on the line for this.
Still loads better than the zero opportunities my kid has as an unconnected kid. My kid who is great on paper and in person, couldn’t even get a job at the mall.
Then he didn't try very hard. Sorry, but I don't believe this.
Believe it. This happens. Without a hook, many deserving kids don't get a leg up or a handout.
Anonymous wrote:Does Sidwell send a large number of kids to a particular school or two every year?
For example, at our DCs school, there are many every year to Chicago and Tulane.
In 2020, there were a ton of kids to Penn, Chicago and Tulane, as well as a good contingent to Michigan. I think there are fewer to Penn over the last two years. The others are pretty consistent. There is often a decent number at Harvard and Yale.
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
May I ask whether CCOs are also expected to give feedback on personal statements?
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
Right, they did not do that bolded stuff with us at any of our meetings. We did ask, repeatedly, and got evasive answers so yes, I am saying that they simply did not answer our questions. We were eventually able to look at a few Naviance charts but not even close to each college on the list.
Then you should have scheduled another meeting to go through the list, or send the Director of the office an email.
We scheduled multiple meetings. Getting additional info was like twisting arms. We were discouraged by the counselor from going through the list in the way that PPs have described.
As to your suggestion that we should have sent Lauren an email: really??? How were we to know what the norm might have been? Also, did you attend the meeting (I think it was back to school night in 10th grade) when Bryan preemptively scolded and warned parents about the past bad treatment of the CCO by parents who came before us? We are respectful of the school by nature, and on top of that the message that Bryan sent was pretty clear that complaining about counselors was not something that would be well received.
Sending an email or calling the director in a respectful manner is not the same as the behavior Bryan referenced under the previous CCO staff.
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
May I ask whether CCOs are also expected to give feedback on personal statements?
Whether expected or not, they certainly will give it if asked.
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
May I ask whether CCOs are also expected to give feedback on personal statements?
You mean the essays? Yes, 2 different counselors did so for our kids. In fact, Lauren regularly circulated a list of deadlines to the kids (and parents), including one for essays so that the CCOs had time to review and offer feedback.
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
Right, they did not do that bolded stuff with us at any of our meetings. We did ask, repeatedly, and got evasive answers so yes, I am saying that they simply did not answer our questions. We were eventually able to look at a few Naviance charts but not even close to each college on the list.
Then you should have scheduled another meeting to go through the list, or send the Director of the office an email.
We scheduled multiple meetings. Getting additional info was like twisting arms. We were discouraged by the counselor from going through the list in the way that PPs have described.
As to your suggestion that we should have sent Lauren an email: really??? How were we to know what the norm might have been? Also, did you attend the meeting (I think it was back to school night in 10th grade) when Bryan preemptively scolded and warned parents about the past bad treatment of the CCO by parents who came before us? We are respectful of the school by nature, and on top of that the message that Bryan sent was pretty clear that complaining about counselors was not something that would be well received.
You're still hanging on to information that Bryan gave 2 years ago?
It was not "information." Did you attend that meeting? If you did you would know what I am talking about.
I probably did - who remembers, that was 2+ years ago. Pre-pandemic and a world away from where we are now. I'm frankly stunned that you would even remember something like that, let alone use it as a reason to not pursue issues with the CCO. I agree with the PP. You should have brought this up with Lauren long before now. I hope this is a lesson to other Sidwell parents who may stumble upon this thread in the coming years.
Well it certainly made an impression on us, as we felt we were being scolded collectively as parents for something we were not involved in and did not even really know the facts about. But he was very angry--I have never seen him that heated--and I interpreted as a clear message of what was expected (and what would not be tolerated) from parents vis a vis the CCO. I honestly don't know how anyone who was there could have forgotten it. And in my view, if anything the pandemic has required all of us to be more forgiving of others, not less. Since we had no reason to know that other parents were discussing additional information, contacting Lauren would have just seemed like being contentious, complaining about CCO practices and contending that we know better and should be getting more. And I am sure you know how the school generally receives messages like that from parents, right?
I do not interpret the way that we handled this as not pursuing issues with the CCO, because we did pursue it with our child's counselor, until the point where it seemed counterproductive and on the brink of becoming contentious. How were we to know that other counselors were approaching the work differently? For what it is worth, I recall a discussion on this message board from a couple months ago--so after the application process was over--that stated that another family did not like the amount of information they were getting from their counselor and asked for a meeting with Lauren, which ultimately they did have. So I guess this shows that we were not alone in what our counselor discussed with us (and if so why would it be limited to just two families?), though others may have pushed back more.
Did you attend the Zoom parent coffee this winter when Mamadou scoffed at the idea of parent feedback about the CCO? if You did, what does that say about how the school thinks about these things?
I remember both meetings. I was little shock with Mamadou’s reaction when the idea of parent feedback about the coo surfaced. He was arrogant
Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.
Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.
The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.
Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).
They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this
No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.
Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.
I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.
What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.
CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.
They. Do. This.
That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.
DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....
If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.
DP. Nothing’s been established persuasively. Parents don’t attend every meeting with the CCO and their kids. They simply can’t know exactly what was said. It’s common sense that different counselors have different styles and don’t follow exactly the same script. But my kids absolutely did get the kind of advice that some posters are saying the CCO isn’t providing. And I heard the same sort of advice in the meetings I attended, including the ones where they went over our kids’ prospective lists of schools.
Since this forum is all about anecdotes, I know some parents who didn’t listen and insisted their kids weren’t going to waste their time applying to “safeties.” Most did fine and some got burned. But everyone I know was forewarned. Maybe some others never got the memo, but from my vantage point, they are the aberration. Apart from the CCO, parents and kids need to educate themselves. By now, any minimal due diligence would show the large variance in gaining admission to any specific highly ranked school. It is such a part of the college admissions landscape today — front page articles about record applications and record low admissions rates — that you have to be willfully blind to not see it.
You are applying an incredibly narrow lens on this issue. The question is not simply “were kids/parents advised by CCO to apply to safeties and did they listen?” If that’s all you think the CCO needs to do, it’s a pretty low bar. My critique of the CCO is not that they didn’t advise kids to apply to more safeties.
My kids got the advice some posters are saying the CCO doesn’t provide. Didn’t you attend a mtg with the CCO where they went over your kids’ prospective college list? During those meetings, they went through each college on our list, showed us the Naviance charts, and made comments/suggestions, including others to consider were like X or Y school. They put them into categories (High Reach, Reach, Target). They didn’t handicap odds at any school (for obvious reasons) but strongly recommended a balanced list with a certain number of schools in each category. They answered all of our questions.
Didn’t they do that in your meetings? If not, didn’t you have the chance to ask them precisely those questions? If you did, are you saying they simply didn’t answer?
May I ask whether CCOs are also expected to give feedback on personal statements?
Whether expected or not, they certainly will give it if asked.
My DC did submit the essay prior to the deadlines. But the comments are very minimum less than two words
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