Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

[Anonymous]

I experienced LSE with an invisible disability and also worked in the UK for a year. Agree with all the posts about schools - and employers sadly - not being good about accommodating disabilities.

The thing is, even if your kid is not disabled now, he could get something that needs accommodations in the future. See post above about long covid. So be forewarned, your kid could get screwed.

Also, if you die during exams, the schools will not reschedule your kids exams - they will either have to skip your funeral or fail their exams. This happened to a friend of mine at LSE. He had to take his exams a year later, with mostly different profs, because he went to his mother's funeral when she died right before exams. They were incredibly unsympathetic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just received another fundraising plea from them yesterday, even though our student was “terminated” by the University three years ago.

Our student had a crummy case of long covid which went undiagnosed during a semester. - They went for a mononucleosis test in town, other tests, nothing was showing up. Their grades really suffered that semester.

When they were home over break, they finally had the correct diagnosis, but they missed the deadline at school to report an illness that would excuse their grades.

Because of the international student visa, they would not be able to complete their degree within the Visa timeframe, unless extra time was granted by the University.

So- the dean in charge of our student’s case was not moved by this plight, “terminated” our student and sent them home, just as their health was improving.

Our student appealed, with more detailed letters from doctors, letters of support from professors within the department of their major, and the same Dean denied the appeal.

Our student appealed a second time, but unless there was “new” evidence to add to the appeal, the second set of administrators were not allowed to overturn the decision by the first dean.

So our student had to leave and enroll at local state U at home. Three years into their major. After their health was back on track and they were busy and involved with friends, clubs, academic life.

Unfortunately because of the difference between UK and USA- our by then 21 year old student had to start over with all the liberal arts requirements that they didn’t have to do at St Andrews. Psych 101, English 101, Math 101 etc etc etc. So instead of just finishing up a few classes in the major and moving on, our student is back at the beginning as a commuter student.

Meanwhile- the departmental head at St Andrews was encouraging our student to reapply. So- they did. With letters of support from professors and the student services office.

Somehow that same Dean got wind that our student was reapplying, miffed that his colleagues were trying to circumvent his authority,he marched over to admissions office and told them in no uncertain terms was our student’s application allowed to be reviewed.

That administrator also told his colleagues they should not have been in touch with our student and that he could “write them up” for that.

According to the St Andrews handbook- students ARE allowed to reapply who have had extenuating circumstances, but apparently our student’s long haul Covid, and “wasn’t compelling” (their words).

They just needed one extra semester.

Honestly it was a case of petty administrative jealousies and stupid power moves, with our student caught in the middle.

Iy was such a disappointing experience handled so unprofessionally. Our student had excellent grades until they were ill, and every administrator was in their own little bubble with “their hands tied, sorry, don’t take it personally.” Total government bureaucracy mentality at that school (they call that ‘no hand holding”).


It was a heartbreaking, expensive (starting over at new American U) headache with that school.

Every time we get a glossy plea from their development office it reminds me how poorly they dealt with this issue and how poorly the school is run.

Caveat emptor

So sorry, PP, and thanks for letting us know! Glad your DC was a supportive family structure because this sounds like an absolute nightmare!

Hmm It sounds like the Op's kid missed important deadlines and had failing grades and the dean was unsympathetic.Okay....

We had very different experience: Our first year child got very sick there last semester (had to take himself to the hospital bc of national health system and see his GP alone -both very eye-opening and maturing experiences.) He was diagnosed with pneumonia and the school was great. He emailed his advisors and his professors and they allowed him to take his exams a week or two late. We had to change his plane home which was a pain. The Uni even gave him the option to take his exams in August - giving him more time to recover if needed. Our kid had great grades going into this and a good relationship with his advisor and I think they wanted to help and did.

Another example of a positive experience: Our kid was having problems with a TA in a class who really seemed to be targeting him based on the fact that he was American. It was so bad that British classmates brought it up with him saying "That guy HATES you." Our kid was worried BC the TA's graded the papers in that class. He talked to his Professor, showed him his papers (intimidating given it was a huge lecture class) The prof was kind, and BELIEVED HIM, and immediately changed his section. He ended up with a great grade in the class.

I think there is more to the Op's story- it seems very slanted - their kid is not "back at the beginning." They have a few gen ed requirements that they did not do at ST Andrews. It does sound like the Dean may have been a jerk but this parent and their child are taking no responsibility for the lack of communication and failing grades. St Andrews may not hand hold the way US schools do. Yes, your kid has to advocate for themselves, but our kid has been treated fairly and kindly and loves it there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I experienced LSE with an invisible disability and also worked in the UK for a year. Agree with all the posts about schools - and employers sadly - not being good about accommodating disabilities.

The thing is, even if your kid is not disabled now, he could get something that needs accommodations in the future. See post above about long covid. So be forewarned, your kid could get screwed.

Also, if you die during exams, the schools will not reschedule your kids exams - they will either have to skip your funeral or fail their exams. This happened to a friend of mine at LSE. He had to take his exams a year later, with mostly different profs, because he went to his mother's funeral when she died right before exams. They were incredibly unsympathetic

How long ago was this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

I taught there. 69% of British studrnts are over 21. And, yes, more mature. Remember the British educational system is very differrnt. Not everyone gets to go to college. Students are funneled off to trades throughtout thecprocess. Only the best academic students are left when applications go in at age 18. British high svhool goes one more year beyond American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

I taught there. 69% of British studrnts are over 21. And, yes, more mature. Remember the British educational system is very differrnt. Not everyone gets to go to college. Students are funneled off to trades throughtout thecprocess. Only the best academic students are left when applications go in at age 18. British high svhool goes one more year beyond American.

what? no it doesn't. it's called year 13 but not another year of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

England and Scotland have different systems. England is 13 years of school (thru upper 6th form) then 3 years at an English university.

Scottish system is the model for the US, 12 years of school from grade 1 and then 4 years of a Scottish university.

"British" really is incoherent in this narrow context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

England and Scotland have different systems. England is 13 years of school (thru upper 6th form) then 3 years at an English university.

Scottish system is the model for the US, 12 years of school from grade 1 and then 4 years of a Scottish university.

"British" really is incoherent in this narrow context.

The US also has 13 years of schooling if you include kindergarten. In England, they call kindergarten year 1 so the equivalent of the US grade 12 is the English year 13. My DD is a teacher at a public school (US definition) in London. She confirmed this for me when I was confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

I taught there. 69% of British studrnts are over 21. And, yes, more mature. Remember the British educational system is very differrnt. Not everyone gets to go to college. Students are funneled off to trades throughtout thecprocess. Only the best academic students are left when applications go in at age 18. British high svhool goes one more year beyond American.

Is it possible you’re a little out of date?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

England and Scotland have different systems. England is 13 years of school (thru upper 6th form) then 3 years at an English university.

Scottish system is the model for the US, 12 years of school from grade 1 and then 4 years of a Scottish university.

"British" really is incoherent in this narrow context.

The US also has 13 years of schooling if you include kindergarten. In England, they call kindergarten year 1 so the equivalent of the US grade 12 is the English year 13. My DD is a teacher at a public school (US definition) in London. She confirmed this for me when I was confused.

If one is counting K, which now is called "reception year" in many English schools, not usually called "year 1", then England normally has 14 years of school.

It is still 1 more pre-college school year in England than is typical in the US. An upper 6th form student in England usually is 19 or almost 19 yo, vice most US HS seniors being 18 or almost 18 yo.

As noted earlier, the Scottish education system is different.

[Anonymous]

[quite]Because it's easy to sue in America. England and Scottland have a different system. If you go there, be prepared. There is no handholding; they ignore alphabet disabilities that our schools give accommodations for; if you get sick you are on your own.

Try suing a VA public university in state courts. First move they will make in court is to invoke "overeign immunity" and say they do not consent to being sued. Game over.

I watched it happen several times whilst I was at UVA (I was not a party to any suit).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

England and Scotland have different systems. England is 13 years of school (thru upper 6th form) then 3 years at an English university.

Scottish system is the model for the US, 12 years of school from grade 1 and then 4 years of a Scottish university.

"British" really is incoherent in this narrow context.

The US also has 13 years of schooling if you include kindergarten. In England, they call kindergarten year 1 so the equivalent of the US grade 12 is the English year 13. My DD is a teacher at a public school (US definition) in London. She confirmed this for me when I was confused.

If one is counting K, which now is called "reception year" in many English schools, not usually called "year 1", then England normally has 14 years of school.

It is still 1 more pre-college school year in England than is typical in the US. An upper 6th form student in England usually is 19 or almost 19 yo, vice most US HS seniors being 18 or almost 18 yo.

As noted earlier, the Scottish education system is different.

I have 6 nieces and nephews who have graduated in England in the last six years and all of them were 18.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

I taught there. 69% of British studrnts are over 21. And, yes, more mature. Remember the British educational system is very differrnt. Not everyone gets to go to college. Students are funneled off to trades throughtout thecprocess. Only the best academic students are left when applications go in at age 18. British high svhool goes one more year beyond American.

71% of students entering full time undergraduate courses are under 21. 85% of students entering part-time undergraduate courses are 21 or over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

Right because we all know that 18-21 year olds always follow the rules.

British students are usually a year older and significantly more mature than Americans

Where on earth did you get this assumption from? Unless they've done a gap year, they're the exact same age as U.S. students.

England and Scotland have different systems. England is 13 years of school (thru upper 6th form) then 3 years at an English university.

Scottish system is the model for the US, 12 years of school from grade 1 and then 4 years of a Scottish university.

"British" really is incoherent in this narrow context.

The US also has 13 years of schooling if you include kindergarten. In England, they call kindergarten year 1 so the equivalent of the US grade 12 is the English year 13. My DD is a teacher at a public school (US definition) in London. She confirmed this for me when I was confused.

If one is counting K, which now is called "reception year" in many English schools, not usually called "year 1", then England normally has 14 years of school.

It is still 1 more pre-college school year in England than is typical in the US. An upper 6th form student in England usually is 19 or almost 19 yo, vice most US HS seniors being 18 or almost 18 yo.

As noted earlier, the Scottish education system is different.

I have 6 nieces and nephews who have graduated in England in the last six years and all of them were 18.

Misleading. And you did not note the words "usually" and "or almost", but thank you very much for playing.

Unlike PP, I actually went to school in England, and also to university there.

[Anonymous]

Had two kids attend for two years each as part of a dual degree program. DS has an invisible disability and attended during COVID.

Accommodations were different but acceptable. Able to S code some classes because 2nd year grades counted as part of GPA at US school.

DS did all of the interaction with St Andrews officials and while interactions were different than in the US they were not overly challenging.

Not discounting that others had different experiences but all in all my kids enjoyed their time at St Andrews.