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DA vs ECNL vs everything else
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Anonymous
+1 A PP mentioned parents putting more thought into a big screen purchase. We are at a Big 3 and I completely agree. For U12 and U13 girls there are a lot more important stuff to focus on ...... |
Anonymous
That's what I was getting at. My daughter is a current U13 ECNL player. She presented her goals related to soccer and we researched the hell out both leagues. She has made her choice as it pertains to her and that's that. Never during the conversations was it about who's on what team, who's going where or which club wins more games, or which league is more "elite" than the other. You make decisions based on that, it will not end the way one wants it to. |
Anonymous
What is the Big 3? |
Anonymous
No one has announced anything yet....im assuming that if nothing comes out in the next month the age group will stay combined. Lot of displacement coming |
Anonymous
I would think the clubs know already. They almost have to in order to get their offers sorted and rosters picked. DA rosters should be fairly well formed by the end of April. If I had to guess I would say it does not look like this change will happen here for 2018-2019. |
Anonymous
| ^^^^My guess as well |
Anonymous
Fully agree with the bolded sentiment above. I don't know if the people who are not affiliated with WS on this board have seen enough games from September through now to see how the set of girls in the Spirit VA U14 age group have developed, but it's pretty incredible. The record the team has does not reflect just how much progress those girls have made both collectively and individually. |
Anonymous
|
Girls ECNL Class of 2018: 1,507
Total Players Playing Collegiate Soccer: 1,156 Division I: 794 Division II, III, NAIA: 361 Undecided: 327 There are WAY more players than that going to play D2 and D3. Especially D3, has a higher turnover /dropout rate. A lot of players do not have "signing days" and just walk on or show up at tryouts and make the team. |
Anonymous
that’s great to hear. wish they posted some more recent games. |
Anonymous
I totally agree numbers tell the story of current status. Here is what it was in 2017: ECNL Class of 2017: 1,671 Total Players Playing Collegiate Soccer: 1,409 Division I: 1,059 Division II, III, NAIA & Other: 350 Undecided: 244 So ECNL lost 164 players and its percentage signing dropped from 87.1% to 76.7%. Quality is diluting in ECNL. They addressed the numbers drop by adding teams. Further dilution. Over 1000 DA academy boys and girls signed for college. https://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-boys/over-1000-u-s-soccer-development-academy-players-commit-on-signing-day/ I counted the number of girls names out of the list and it was 625. So in its first year DA has 1/3 of girls signing vs and ECNL has 2/3. We'll see where it goes from here. |
Anonymous
DC United has 7 players? Are their players signing pro or semi-pro contracts? That seems very low for a pro team's academy. Is it that players commit early and leave DCU by senior year to play high school? What gives? |
Anonymous
| How many McLean girls are going to forego two nearby DA opportunities to stay with ECNL and those stats? To play Highlander soccer?? |
Anonymous
I'm not as familiar with DC United's U19s, but most U19s teams have a mix of juniors and seniors. Juniors aren't counted on the linked list even if they are committed since they don't sign NLIs until their senior year. |
Anonymous
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I’ve been watching and reading this board for a while now. The overwhelmingly defensive ton of most parents is interesting, as they try to explain and prove their “choice” is the best. I see the same thing played out in other life choices, anywhere from which way they voted to what college one’s child chose. I doubt anything I can say will change that.
That said, I’m hoping maybe for those who are looking for tips on how decide what to do might find what I’m about to say another tool in their toolbox. I will not avoid club names, as I find that pointless. It’s not about this or that club, but this or that methodology. I have both boys and girls, the boys being older than my daughters. I watched the DA play out on the boys’ side, and I heard all the same attacks on that DA as well. Many a club fought what would inevitably become the top league in the country. In fact, what some of you may not know is that the CCL was formed in retaliation to the boys’ DA, by arguing that the non-DA teams from DA clubs were B teams and sub-standard competition to the remaining A teams in the elite league of that era (the now defunct VCCL). One son was good enough for academy, and one wasn’t. So I have seen boys’ DA ball, and I have seen elite club + high school ball. My older daughter is high school age, and played for one of the best ECNL’s in the region. It’s still a decent team, though they have lost some talent to the DA. We moved to the DA, and perhaps to a team that has a net lesser talent pool, though it is not without girls who are legit and can ball with the best. We knew that going in. So why do it? 1. It is impossible for anyone to argue who has any real knowledge of soccer that high school ball is coached or played at the same level as club ball. Period. If you say it, you never played (Yes, I did. Yes, I played in college. ) It doesn’t matter how many top players are on the high school team. It’s coached and run differently – and yes, in a lesser fashion. a. Is high school ball worthless? NO! I played it. It will always have its place, which should never be undervalued. But that place is largely social. Is that a bad thing? No, but recognize it for what it is. b. Do scouts attend high school games? Almost never. c. To be fair, if your child can’t/won’t play DA, high school ball + ODP is a viable second place, lessor option. My other son did it, and got a respectable scholarship as a result. But it is lessor. d. So yeah, moving to the DA for a full year of club ball will in the end inherently provide superior play and players. It’s inevitable. If not now, eventually. How long that will take is debatable, but the girls’ DA will excel at a faster clip than the boys’ DA did – a point I will come back to. If her team and club start out a little weaker, they will end up stronger. 2. Some of you may argue boys are different. You are right; they are. Overall, boys are less likely to choose a team, just because their friends since elementary school are on it. They will leave that team in favor of a stronger team, no matter how deep the bond overall. That said, I will say I’m proud of my DD for choosing the team she felt she would develop more with, although it meant leaving so many friends behind. However, girls are more likely to stay in their lane. When DC United came out with an academy, it was all the talk. To play for an MLS academy was mind-blowing. MLS academies are in fact the best to play for. Was that the attitude toward NWSL academies? No, even girls don’t seem to support their own institutions. They would prefer to stay with their friends. I can’t pretend that I understand. My own daughter deliberately chose WS because it’s an NWSL academy. What would be mind-blowing is if DC United and WS go the Portland Thorns-Timbers route, but I won’t be holding my breath. In any case, while it may take longer to take root, WS is making smart choices in building its base so that whatever difficulties it may face out the gate, WS will absolutely find its way to the top. The recruitment at the younger ages is already taking off. The older teams by the way aren’t just “leftovers”. WS did not fail to recruit some truly talented players, and more are coming over next year. VDA’s move down to the ECNL helped WS, and there are other girls from ECNL clubs that will be joining a DA – either FCV or WS next year. 3. My DD chose the DA, because she believes playing in a year round program will help her get better as a player. Having done the ECNL and now doing the DA, when I asked her about next year, she said she had gotten so much better this year, that it just wouldn’t make sense to go back down to the ECNL. I would say that’s true – for a lot of reasons. a. After last year, they re-organized the VA ECNL teams into a different conference. The better teams she used to play were either in MD, OH, or moved to the DA (CSA, CASL, FCV), so the quality of competition went down for all VA ECNL teams as a result. No BRYC can make up for that. b. Compare that to the DA, in which she’s now playing clubs that even as ECNL, were the top in the country, like PDA, Penn Fusion, and so forth. Any time you go north to play, the competition is largely better than when you go south. That’s always been true. c. Playing club for longer is better, which has always been the disadvantage of non-DA clubs and the advantage of DA clubs, even the weaker ones. When you are training longer and playing more games, you will get better than when you play less. That I have to say that boggles my mind, but apparently that’s not obvious to everyone. d. Are tournaments fair compensation for league games? It’s not the same, but even if it were, everyone says that as if the DA clubs aren’t doing tournaments. In addition to the 3 big official DA showcases, all the DA clubs participated in other showcases. Some did it as a means to showcase their talent. WS made the choice to use them as friendlies to give more time to non-starters and to also play for example 05s on the 03 team as a developmental experience and as part of recruitment tool for players WS wanted to recruit for next year. But even if it were, when high school ball starts, all ECNLs must take a break, so even if you were to cram all the same number of games in as the DA, for high schoolers, it becomes a fall season game blitz, rather than a developmental experience spread out over the course of a year. 4. To my earlier point: that the girls’ DA will excel faster than the boys’ DA. How? Why? a. Ironically, the ECNL. Whereas with the boys, talent was less organized across the country, the ECNL made it possible for US Soccer to know which clubs were the best and to recruit accordingly. b. Did they succeed? Yes, by far and wide, the top clubs across the country moved to the DA: CASL (now NCFC), Charlotte SA, PDA, Penn Fusion, Eclipse Select Soccer, FC Stars, So Cal Blues, and more. With a few exceptions (such as from clubs that had lost their boys’ DAs and didn’t want to risk it), they got most of the talent that mattered. c. The girls’ DA absolutely is better scouted. I can say that by having had a child in the ECNL and now she’s in the DA. There are more scouts: more US Soccer scouts and more college scouts. Does that mean the ECNL won’t be scouted any more? Why must everything be so binary? Either/or? Of course not. Scouts do not restrict themselves to one league as a whole entity, though the higher level the program, the less likely to find it at lesser and lesser events. However, the DA is better scouted. I hardly ever saw a scout at any ECNL game at any age level (even when we watched the older teams play). I have seen scouts multiple times at many games. d. Will some ECNL teams be better than some DA teams? Of course. That is true on both the girls’ and boys’ side. I bet PDA’s boys’ ECNL would beat RU DA in any contest. However, the net talent of the DA is better on than the net ECNL talent. VA is one of very few contested areas. You have to see beyond the bubble to understand the bigger picture. e. DA Showcases are better structured. The BIGGEST factor in terms of being seen and getting exposure is going to a prominent tournament where all the games are played at one site. Most college coaches will put the work in to see players play, if they can simply go from field to field at the same complex. Without mentioning names, there are some very big name tournaments that put teams on several different fields and college coaches can't stand it, because it's clearly more about making money then exposure and assisting the college process. The coaches just can't get to multiple locations so they end up picking one field and seeing a third of the talent. Fortunately, the DA provides three of those for the girls. Then, it's simply up to the girls to perform. Plus, not playing more than 2 games in a row allows girls to perform better. My son who didn’t play DA went to big name tournaments – and if you aren’t in the top bracket, let me tell you how it works. Your team will play on fields D1 won’t bother with. The further down the bracket pool you go, the further away your field, and you can be U17 without a scout in sight. Compare that to the FL event, in which since everything was played at all fields, even “poor” WS VA got looks from Duke, UNC, UVA, Notre Dame and more. I’m not talking their U17 team, which is a very talented team ranking #3 in the conference – above FCV. I’m talking even the U15s got looks. Because it’s easy to do when all the games are played together. 5. In addition to very objective reasons that make the DA a stronger league (the talent being played, the longer season, the better competition even out the gate over all, the structure of showcases), US Soccer will make sure its league succeeds. Right now, it’s playing “nice” and allowing the ECNL to remain a source of talent. If US Soccer wants to, it can cut the ECNL out at any time. Once players realize that the DA is the only route to the YNTs, they will switch. Would US Soccer do it? Are you kidding me? Yes, they have proven they are perfectly capable, should it come to that. For now, they are content to let this play out. The harder the ECNL fights though, the more it will force a confrontation it doesn’t really want. 6. Some have wondered why Richmond Utd ECNL didn’t join the DA. It’s simple. Richmond Utd = the ECNL. Didn’t any of you notice that all the official posts and articles for the ECNL come out of Richmond? Jay Howell is on the Board of Directors, Aaron Brunner’s wife works for the ECNL’s head administrative offices, etc etc. Besides, I’m honestly not sure if RU ECNL is good enough over all. If you look over the years, they have historically often been in the bottom 1/3 of the conference. For example, their U15 team (one of their better teams) BARELY beat PDA Freedom – PDA’s C team. Their U13s and U16s are struggling, etc etc. I guess they would survive in the DA, as others are surviving. However, net talent base, RU doesn’t have that strong of a pool. The RU Boys’ DA has been on probation with US Soccer for a while for being one of the worst in the whole league. Besides, why move to a league you can barely survive in when you can stay in the ECNL and finally move out of the bottom tier? That’s not to say they don’t have some individual girls with talent, but you have to look at the whole club top to bottom. So, what league should your daughter play in? There is no one person that can answer that, other than your child. What are her ambitions? What is she willing to sacrifice? Is she willing to give up high school ball with her friends? What about the summer? Is she willing to give that up? Cedar Stars and PDA play July 1st. What will that mean for them? Does she understand the commitment of a D1 college? I know someone who got a full ride to a D1 school as a field player. He had to give it up because he said the commitment interfered with school, and he wasn’t able to keep up. Also, which club will give her playing time? No matter how good the team, if your child’s position is “bench”, it’s time to find a new team. Also, the coach that loves your child will do so much more for their recruitment. My son’s coach was absolutely instrumental in his college recruitment. He talked my son up to any scout that would listen. He had colleges chasing my son, rather than the other way around. Had my son moved off of an elite time to the DA (which maybe he could have one that coveted “bench” position), it would never have happened. I hope this helps some of you who are looking for help in making the decision. As for the rest of you, a philosopher once said that he have never debated with a knowledgeable person, except that he won the debate, and he have never debated with an ignorant person, except that he lost. To put it another way, Tokusan once came to the master Ryutan and asked about Zen. At one point, Ryutan re-filled his guest's teacup but did not stop pouring when the cup was full. Tea spilled out and ran over the table. "Stop! The cup is full!" said Tokusan."Exactly," said Master Ryutan. "You are like this cup; you are full of ideas. You come and ask for teaching, but your cup is full; I can't put anything in. Before I can teach you, you'll have to empty your cup." If you plan on picking up a debate with me, don’t bother. I’ve listened carefully to all of you and have said all I came to say. Best wishes to you all, and I hope each of your daughters ends up in the league most appropriate for her. |
Anonymous
| ^^^^ I will avoid club names. I started out saying I will not mention, but switched to avoid when I realized I had to mention a few just to illustrate a point. Oh well... |