Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's annoying to me that our DC rulers take businesses and residents for granted. They just have assumed for a decade now that they don't need to offe anything. FBI leaves... Flippant. Sports leave.... Flippant. Residents leave "we need more condos". Nightmare rulers.

This. Bowser and the DC Council completely took Monumental Sports for granted. Potomac Yards is a vastly inferior site in terms of public transit but Virginia aggressively pursued Monumental. What is infuriating is that the Mayor was so focused on bringing football (8 to 10 games to year) back to RFK that she (and the Council) ignored retaining the Wizards and the Caps ---which is over 40 home games (with all the attendant economic benefits) in the heart of downtown. And what is worse is that a significant number of the current council neither understands nor cares that they just killed one of the golden geese that lays those eggs they like to soak to pay for their current progressive pipe dream du jour.

Chuck called it back in August: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/01/dc-stadium-deal-capital-one-arena-rfk-stadium/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In retrospect, that $1M the mayor just spent repainting the BLM street could have been better used elsewhere…

$270K. Please stop lying.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dem-run-city-drops-six-figures-repaint-blm-street-mural-crime-skyrockets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's annoying to me that our DC rulers take businesses and residents for granted. They just have assumed for a decade now that they don't need to offe anything. FBI leaves... Flippant. Sports leave.... Flippant. Residents leave "we need more condos". Nightmare rulers.

I'm looking forward to swooping in to buy one of those condos as an investment when they start to go bust

Buying a depreciating property in a rapidly declining neighborhood sounds like a great investment strategy. You should buy two.

[Anonymous]

Mayor Williams made downtown so nice..I feel badly for the people who bought condos. A lot were retired couples etc. It's horrible what our mayor and council have done to the trajectory of our city. I knew things were bad when they let mobs smash windows in 2020. Or stores get repeatedly looted. Just kept spiraling.

[Anonymous]

The Mayor just seemed so poorly informed at her press conference yesterday. She had the same information we did. She clearly had not been negotiating.

I just feel like if she were focused on the city and not weird environmental conferences in Dubai, she might be a bit better versed about the going ons in the city and have her thumb on some of our simmering issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Caps will be fine. It's a good franchise. What they lose in MoCo and NW DC fans attending games, they'll make up with NoVa fans. I'm in MoCo near the DC line. We go to Caps game all the time. I cannot imagine trekking all the way to Potomac Yards for a weeknight game during rush hour. Not happening. But the Virginia fans will be there.

The Wizards are going to suffer. It's been a losing franchise forever with little hope of changing anytime soon. Most of their fan base - such as it is - is DC based. They are not going to Potomac Yards. You need a winning team for people to go through the inconveinience of going to Potomac Yards. It'll be a pretty empty arena for the foreseeable future when it comes to the Wizards.

The real loser, of course, is DC. This is hundreds of millions in lost revenue. All those restaurants in Gallery Place are going to die. It will be impossible to sell a condo in that neighborhood. It was the arena that turned everything around downtown 30 years ago. It will revert back to the crack era so fast it'll make your head spin. The future for downtown DC is bleak.

I blame Bowser and the City Council, of course. Absolute idiots. But the real villain is the USAO. When you decline to prosecute nearly 70 percent of all arrests, there are consequences. Leonsis said it himself. Most of his employees have been attacked and harassed just going to work. No wants that kind of stress in their day to day life. These are all repeat offenders well known to the police. The average murder suspect in DC has 11 felonies - pretty impressive for a teen or someone in their twenties. And USAO does nothing about these violent people.

So people and businesses are leaving DC. Until DC gets serious about putting criminals in prison, the city will continue to decline.

Plenty of people from Loudoun and western Fairfax travel to DC for Nationals BASEBALL(!) games. Plenty via Metro too (shock). Are MD people from Bethesda and CC too provincial to cross the Potomac? I’m sure a few are but C’mon. If you’re a fan, the move to a neighboring DC community won’t be a big deal.

BTW the commute from western Fairfax to Baltimore via car at rush hour is not that much longer than getting to DC for baseball games.

Why do you think people in Bethesda and CC pay so much for rather basic houses? It's because they value time over space.

Alexandria and National Harbor are the furthest places from there in the region. It's a full loop around the beltway to get there and back. I'd rather drive to Baltimore.

If you are BCC or SS resident, the Baltimore stadiums, FedEx or RFK, Nats Park, and Audi Field are all closer than PY. My purchases of tickets will reflect that reality.

If you haven't noticed by now, this region doesn't revolve around MoCo. Virginia is the economic engine powering the DMV. If that wasn't evident by the Tysons development, new Metro lines and Amazon, hopefully you realize it now.

It is strange. You’d think that MD would have more economic development on par with VA but it just doesn’t. I’ve never seen the upside to living there especially Montgomery County. PG (where I worked for many years) and Howard Counties seem like better places to invest.

Come to think of it — was PG County even considered? Doubtful it would solve the issue of getting BCC types to games there though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’ll be a good new development for 20 years and then whoever owns the teams then will blackmail public officials into financing yet another stadium.

The trend is moving away from stadiums and real estate developments in big cities. With hybrid work here to stay, the only way to revitalize cities like DC will be a massive, long term remaking of commercial areas into new, mire desirable residential ones, with smaller businesses (restaurants, grocery stores, cafes, etc) following residents into these areas. And for it to work there will need to be crackdowns on crime. There isn’t a lot of money to fund or incentivize this kind of redevelopment right now so this is going to be a long term challenge.

If DC and other big cities die, the close-in suburbs will follow. In past eras when cities were down they at least still had the business and commercial real estate tax base. Without that there won’t be enough to see the city through to the next redevelopment and revitalization phase. The long term effect of work from home policies is not good for cities as commercial districts.

Sounds like we need a home office tax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What Ted should consider is buying a nearby building. Given the commercial real estate market, buying a building nearby would allow the office space to move there, and maybe more.

Look at the plans, clearly what is proposed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's annoying to me that our DC rulers take businesses and residents for granted. They just have assumed for a decade now that they don't need to offe anything. FBI leaves... Flippant. Sports leave.... Flippant. Residents leave "we need more condos". Nightmare rulers.

This. Bowser and the DC Council completely took Monumental Sports for granted. Potomac Yards is a vastly inferior site in terms of public transit but Virginia aggressively pursued Monumental. What is infuriating is that the Mayor was so focused on bringing football (8 to 10 games to year) back to RFK that she (and the Council) ignored retaining the Wizards and the Caps ---which is over 40 home games (with all the attendant economic benefits) in the heart of downtown. And what is worse is that a significant number of the current council neither understands nor cares that they just killed one of the golden geese that lays those eggs they like to soak to pay for their current progressive pipe dream du jour.

They don't care about location or fan convenience. This is about 70 acres and 2 billion dollars as a windfall to Ted Leonsis. The city doesn't have that kind of space to give to the team, ergo there was never going to be a fair or equal negotiation.

The deal Abe Pollin cut with the city, that Leonsis inherited, is good for the city and bad for the owner. That was Abe being a benefactor to the city he loved. Ted is about the money and doesn't care about the city of community. If he loses part of his fan base, he doesn't care. As others have noted up thread, there are plenty of tech/Amazon/Defense contractors who will be happy to fill the void.

There were other sites DC could have offered or sweetened the deal in other ways. Ted tried for 18 months to get the city to deal with crime and offer a market rate agreement. DC dragged their feet like most blue cities do because they have no vision. DC basically said “Where’s he going to go?” Well, he showed us. Ted was never going to grovel with the 13 dwarfs and a checked out mayor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Caps will be fine. It's a good franchise. What they lose in MoCo and NW DC fans attending games, they'll make up with NoVa fans. I'm in MoCo near the DC line. We go to Caps game all the time. I cannot imagine trekking all the way to Potomac Yards for a weeknight game during rush hour. Not happening. But the Virginia fans will be there.

The Wizards are going to suffer. It's been a losing franchise forever with little hope of changing anytime soon. Most of their fan base - such as it is - is DC based. They are not going to Potomac Yards. You need a winning team for people to go through the inconveinience of going to Potomac Yards. It'll be a pretty empty arena for the foreseeable future when it comes to the Wizards.

The real loser, of course, is DC. This is hundreds of millions in lost revenue. All those restaurants in Gallery Place are going to die. It will be impossible to sell a condo in that neighborhood. It was the arena that turned everything around downtown 30 years ago. It will revert back to the crack era so fast it'll make your head spin. The future for downtown DC is bleak.

I blame Bowser and the City Council, of course. Absolute idiots. But the real villain is the USAO. When you decline to prosecute nearly 70 percent of all arrests, there are consequences. Leonsis said it himself. Most of his employees have been attacked and harassed just going to work. No wants that kind of stress in their day to day life. These are all repeat offenders well known to the police. The average murder suspect in DC has 11 felonies - pretty impressive for a teen or someone in their twenties. And USAO does nothing about these violent people.

So people and businesses are leaving DC. Until DC gets serious about putting criminals in prison, the city will continue to decline.

Plenty of people from Loudoun and western Fairfax travel to DC for Nationals BASEBALL(!) games. Plenty via Metro too (shock). Are MD people from Bethesda and CC too provincial to cross the Potomac? I’m sure a few are but C’mon. If you’re a fan, the move to a neighboring DC community won’t be a big deal.

BTW the commute from western Fairfax to Baltimore via car at rush hour is not that much longer than getting to DC for baseball games.

Why do you think people in Bethesda and CC pay so much for rather basic houses? It's because they value time over space.

Alexandria and National Harbor are the furthest places from there in the region. It's a full loop around the beltway to get there and back. I'd rather drive to Baltimore.

If you are BCC or SS resident, the Baltimore stadiums, FedEx or RFK, Nats Park, and Audi Field are all closer than PY. My purchases of tickets will reflect that reality.

If you haven't noticed by now, this region doesn't revolve around MoCo. Virginia is the economic engine powering the DMV. If that wasn't evident by the Tysons development, new Metro lines and Amazon, hopefully you realize it now.

It is strange. You’d think that MD would have more economic development on par with VA but it just doesn’t. I’ve never seen the upside to living there especially Montgomery County. PG (where I worked for many years) and Howard Counties seem like better places to invest.

Come to think of it — was PG County even considered? Doubtful it would solve the issue of getting BCC types to games there though.

Elections and policy choices have consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Caps will be fine. It's a good franchise. What they lose in MoCo and NW DC fans attending games, they'll make up with NoVa fans. I'm in MoCo near the DC line. We go to Caps game all the time. I cannot imagine trekking all the way to Potomac Yards for a weeknight game during rush hour. Not happening. But the Virginia fans will be there.





The sports book business model will expand from MD MGM market to VA. DC blocks gambling. Loss for the district .

The Wizards are going to suffer. It's been a losing franchise forever with little hope of changing anytime soon. Most of their fan base - such as it is - is DC based. They are not going to Potomac Yards. You need a winning team for people to go through the inconveinience of going to Potomac Yards. It'll be a pretty empty arena for the foreseeable future when it comes to the Wizards.

The real loser, of course, is DC. This is hundreds of millions in lost revenue. All those restaurants in Gallery Place are going to die. It will be impossible to sell a condo in that neighborhood. It was the arena that turned everything around downtown 30 years ago. It will revert back to the crack era so fast it'll make your head spin. The future for downtown DC is bleak.

I blame Bowser and the City Council, of course. Absolute idiots. But the real villain is the USAO. When you decline to prosecute nearly 70 percent of all arrests, there are consequences. Leonsis said it himself. Most of his employees have been attacked and harassed just going to work. No wants that kind of stress in their day to day life. These are all repeat offenders well known to the police. The average murder suspect in DC has 11 felonies - pretty impressive for a teen or someone in their twenties. And USAO does nothing about these violent people.

So people and businesses are leaving DC. Until DC gets serious about putting criminals in prison, the city will continue to decline.

Plenty of people from Loudoun and western Fairfax travel to DC for Nationals BASEBALL(!) games. Plenty via Metro too (shock). Are MD people from Bethesda and CC too provincial to cross the Potomac? I’m sure a few are but C’mon. If you’re a fan, the move to a neighboring DC community won’t be a big deal.

BTW the commute from western Fairfax to Baltimore via car at rush hour is not that much longer than getting to DC for baseball games.

Why do you think people in Bethesda and CC pay so much for rather basic houses? It's because they value time over space.

Alexandria and National Harbor are the furthest places from there in the region. It's a full loop around the beltway to get there and back. I'd rather drive to Baltimore.

If you are BCC or SS resident, the Baltimore stadiums, FedEx or RFK, Nats Park, and Audi Field are all closer than PY. My purchases of tickets will reflect that reality.

If you haven't noticed by now, this region doesn't revolve around MoCo. Virginia is the economic engine powering the DMV. If that wasn't evident by the Tysons development, new Metro lines and Amazon, hopefully you realize it now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If DC (and MD for that matter) just made their tax policy competitive with VA, it would be a different story.

Safety is easy, Leonsis could hire a private security team outside Cap One if he was treated fairly from a tax standpoint.

MD and DC are going to continue to spiral until they get competitive.

I live in MD making about 750k. I truly think about the additional 3% or so of income tax in playing - would cover my daughters day care. I can pretty much see VA from my home in Bethesda..

I guess you don't get that the tax/fee burden for DC individuals is lower than VA or MD, right? Look at the studies, this myth that VA is some sort of tax haven compared to the neighboring jurisdictions has been pure fantasy for years.

I’m a CPA, you’re factually incorrect.

Va is the best, then DC, the MD. If you’re poor, sure DC is great.

Then you aren't much of a CPA

https://eliresidential.com/2019/02/19/2019-2-18-does-virginia-washington-dc-or-maryland-have-the-most-favorable-taxes/

I can provide many other links that show the same thing - YOU are factually incorrect.

DC will never offer the sports play book area VA can. Simple, DC need to legalize gambling to have a skin in the game.

[Anonymous]

Defund the police for the win!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’ll be a good new development for 20 years and then whoever owns the teams then will blackmail public officials into financing yet another stadium.

The trend is moving away from stadiums and real estate developments in big cities. With hybrid work here to stay, the only way to revitalize cities like DC will be a massive, long term remaking of commercial areas into new, mire desirable residential ones, with smaller businesses (restaurants, grocery stores, cafes, etc) following residents into these areas. And for it to work there will need to be crackdowns on crime. There isn’t a lot of money to fund or incentivize this kind of redevelopment right now so this is going to be a long term challenge.

If DC and other big cities die, the close-in suburbs will follow. In past eras when cities were down they at least still had the business and commercial real estate tax base. Without that there won’t be enough to see the city through to the next redevelopment and revitalization phase. The long term effect of work from home policies is not good for cities as commercial districts.

Sounds like we need a home office tax.

What? Is DC going to tax the people who live in Virginia that no longer commute to DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Caps will be fine. It's a good franchise. What they lose in MoCo and NW DC fans attending games, they'll make up with NoVa fans. I'm in MoCo near the DC line. We go to Caps game all the time. I cannot imagine trekking all the way to Potomac Yards for a weeknight game during rush hour. Not happening. But the Virginia fans will be there.

The Wizards are going to suffer. It's been a losing franchise forever with little hope of changing anytime soon. Most of their fan base - such as it is - is DC based. They are not going to Potomac Yards. You need a winning team for people to go through the inconveinience of going to Potomac Yards. It'll be a pretty empty arena for the foreseeable future when it comes to the Wizards.

The real loser, of course, is DC. This is hundreds of millions in lost revenue. All those restaurants in Gallery Place are going to die. It will be impossible to sell a condo in that neighborhood. It was the arena that turned everything around downtown 30 years ago. It will revert back to the crack era so fast it'll make your head spin. The future for downtown DC is bleak.

I blame Bowser and the City Council, of course. Absolute idiots. But the real villain is the USAO. When you decline to prosecute nearly 70 percent of all arrests, there are consequences. Leonsis said it himself. Most of his employees have been attacked and harassed just going to work. No wants that kind of stress in their day to day life. These are all repeat offenders well known to the police. The average murder suspect in DC has 11 felonies - pretty impressive for a teen or someone in their twenties. And USAO does nothing about these violent people.

So people and businesses are leaving DC. Until DC gets serious about putting criminals in prison, the city will continue to decline.

Plenty of people from Loudoun and western Fairfax travel to DC for Nationals BASEBALL(!) games. Plenty via Metro too (shock). Are MD people from Bethesda and CC too provincial to cross the Potomac? I’m sure a few are but C’mon. If you’re a fan, the move to a neighboring DC community won’t be a big deal.

BTW the commute from western Fairfax to Baltimore via car at rush hour is not that much longer than getting to DC for baseball games.

Why do you think people in Bethesda and CC pay so much for rather basic houses? It's because they value time over space.

Alexandria and National Harbor are the furthest places from there in the region. It's a full loop around the beltway to get there and back. I'd rather drive to Baltimore.

If you are BCC or SS resident, the Baltimore stadiums, FedEx or RFK, Nats Park, and Audi Field are all closer than PY. My purchases of tickets will reflect that reality.

If you haven't noticed by now, this region doesn't revolve around MoCo. Virginia is the economic engine powering the DMV. If that wasn't evident by the Tysons development, new Metro lines and Amazon, hopefully you realize it now.

It is strange. You’d think that MD would have more economic development on par with VA but it just doesn’t. I’ve never seen the upside to living there especially Montgomery County. PG (where I worked for many years) and Howard Counties seem like better places to invest.

Come to think of it — was PG County even considered? Doubtful it would solve the issue of getting BCC types to games there though.

PG is always considered in these deals. It has the same problems in regards to Arlington.