Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss Part II

[Anonymous]

Oh stop. As my PP outlined there are about 4 limitations that our legal and league structures have built in that currently prevent isn’t from adopting a more European model.

Beyond that, Soccer just culturally is not relevant enough in America. MLS just awarded their champion and nobody cared. THAT is your biggest problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fans of Liverpool and Valencia aren't fans because they feel like it, they genuinely follow them as their local team. The path of creating tiers is too long, and frankly un-American. If we are going to stand a chance of creating stars in football, the only path I see working in the next 10-20 years is constructing soccer fields, blacktop or grass, and then have a decentralized network of soccer programs that are cheap and just allow for the programs to schedule games. The children interested in improving will improve on their own. Let the rich families enjoy theor private coaching and cross-country national championships.

Then US Soccer would only be responsible for identifying players worthy of of being brought to US training grounds free of charge away from school, classmates, families for a series of extended stays. We have shown that when it comes to our kids, we Americans are willing to pay high prices for just an opportunity, so it will be impossible to remove the $ from the selection. But if we have the same program and training for all individuals seen with potential, it may help with keeping the playing field.

This would require coaches with an eye for potential 15 years down the road, and not next Sunday's game. Also, this would HAVE to mean that partipating in the USYS and US Club Soccer nat'l championships and Nat'l League would be meaningless to those coaches looking for players with high potential in their twenties.

Giving up bragging rights for parents and $$$ for all the private soccer academies, trainers, camps, and travel club teams won't be easy, but is the price we will have to pay.

Your proposition was so beautiful that I'm still wiping my tears as I type this. There is just one flaw in your actually ill conceived plan as it relates to American sports and youth.

1. All of our sports rely on a player draft. Which means players rights are managed by leagues versus clubs.
2. The ability for clubs to recoup costs on player development via transfer fees. I don't see how we can overcome this legal barrier in the current legal and league structure.
3. The lack of tiered professional leagues for players to develop within.
4. College soccer and amateur rules. Kids have to make a decision to either get an education at a greatly reduced cost or try and go pro. With so few leagues to develop within most DA quality players choose College and College is where development goes to die. And players have to do college first because if they make one cent as a pro they are ineligible to even play in college much less receive a scholarship. Most players choose the safer path and play in college without ever following through on what a couple of years as pro might do to elevate their game in the prime years of 18-22 years old.
5. Work visas which greatly hinder truly elite players the ability to train and play in Europe at younger ages without European passports.

At the end of the day money needs to be made by somebody and there needs to be an incentive. Currently MLS, NWSL and other leagues both need profitable clubs. But they need to be profitable in more ways than just concessions, ticket sales and jerseys sales. They need an incentive to develop players that speak to their bottom line more than just development that leads to slightly cheaper in-house signings. The sale of a Rooney from Everton to Man U is the type of transaction that funds a clubs academy system, not ticket sales. Until the players become the product to be nurtured and developed for sale the U.S. will lag behind the rest of the world.

The first thing I mentioned was a draft. This is important because if you fail to sign in house talent that player can be drafted for FREE by another club. How much money is a club willing to invest in any player if a majority of them simply walk out the door for free and those that stay only generate revenue through ticket and jersey sales with their numbers. And then they can still go to college and still possibly get drafted later by a MLS club.

Many NFL clubs would fold if not for revenue sharing that comes from huge TV contracts. Parking, hot dog and beer sales even at the NFL level are not enough money to provide a very expensive development pyramid that is fully funded that soccer requires.

But these boards would be very different if we had a more professional academy system in place here. It is hilarious how people bicker about what club is better or what happened at Vienna or Arlington now when you are just year to year. Imagine the prospect of signing your kid over to a club at 13-14 years old and the kid is now essentially theirs. And at any moment your kid can wash out from the club and be sent home for good, relegated to the youth soccer world of club soccer, now known as rec.

I don't think there is a need to be sarcastic to someone who took the time to write a sincere post, but I agree with everything you've written. Too bad college can't be a time of development like it is for football and basketball players (putting aside the NCAA corruption issues). That would make at least some positive difference.

Is it really because colleges are good for development for football and basketball, or it's because the rest of the world to do not participate in those sports as deeply as in soccer? if there are european pro leagues for football and basketball like for soccer, do you think our players can hold a candle to them after 4 years college?

[Anonymous]

^^^

I have always felt this to be the case. For the most part nobody in the world gives much a crap about about American Football or Basketball. Basketball to a lesser extent. College just represent a free farm system for the NFL and NBA.

The violence of football though is unique in that it does not really lend itself to long developmental cycles. Most NFL careers are far to short and this is why athleticism is so coveted and why our views on soccer development are so skewed towards athletic attributes like size, speed and strength.

Basketball on the other hand would benefit much more from longer development cycles. While basketball relies heavily on athleticism as well I would have to believe that during college years a more professional level dedication would be better for players in the long run. Kobe and LeBron have certainly proven that college ball doesn't matter. While they are outliars a true minor league system would be better for basketball players than college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh stop. As my PP outlined there are about 4 limitations that our legal and league structures have built in that currently prevent isn’t from adopting a more European model.

Beyond that, Soccer just culturally is not relevant enough in America. MLS just awarded their champion and nobody cared. THAT is your biggest problem.

NOBODY watched the MLS championship because MLS soccer sucks. We were watching DVR Champions League games at that time. We did switch over briefly. My young children have been raised on FIFA and been to many International games abroad. They won't watch MLS. People would offer us free DC United tickets and after the one time they went they never wanted to go back. Even a 9 and 12-year old can recognize the lack of speed, touch and soccer intelligence compared to International soccer.

My biggest beef is the coaching/training and scouting in this country. It is abysmal. We have coaches that can't recognize the right attributes. They are still evaluating on the wrong metrics and they sure as hell are training the wrong way as well.

There is a pretty big soccer culture in this country currently. And most American youths play soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh stop. As my PP outlined there are about 4 limitations that our legal and league structures have built in that currently prevent isn’t from adopting a more European model.

Beyond that, Soccer just culturally is not relevant enough in America. MLS just awarded their champion and nobody cared. THAT is your biggest problem.

NOBODY watched the MLS championship because MLS soccer sucks. We were watching DVR Champions League games at that time. We did switch over briefly. My young children have been raised on FIFA and been to many International games abroad. They won't watch MLS. People would offer us free DC United tickets and after the one time they went they never wanted to go back. Even a 9 and 12-year old can recognize the lack of speed, touch and soccer intelligence compared to International soccer.

My biggest beef is the coaching/training and scouting in this country. It is abysmal. We have coaches that can't recognize the right attributes. They are still evaluating on the wrong metrics and they sure as hell are training the wrong way as well.

There is a pretty big soccer culture in this country currently. And most American youths play soccer.

Someday your young children would do well if they ever "suck" enough to play in MLS championship. MLS playing level and pay scale is quickly rising. With recently introduced salary budget mechanisms, the typical MLS starter will soon be making $500,000+ with top players making $1MM+. There are national team players around the region who play in MLS (or hope to be able to play in MLS). My guess is soccer / football fans in Central America and Caribbean are more appreciative of MLS than many U.S. soccer fans such as yourself.

You know why talent / playing level is so much higher in the Champions League games you are watching? The big dollars that come from big television contracts and ticket and merchandise sales. The dollars that come from 70-80 thousand fans paying $100 per ticket to go to things like International BS Cup at FedEx this past August. The more U.S. Soccer fans follow MLS and stop sending all the dollars overseas, the quicker the MLS level will rise. Mexicans avidly support Liga MX, too bad too many American fans would rather say American soccer sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh stop. As my PP outlined there are about 4 limitations that our legal and league structures have built in that currently prevent isn’t from adopting a more European model.

Beyond that, Soccer just culturally is not relevant enough in America. MLS just awarded their champion and nobody cared. THAT is your biggest problem.

NOBODY watched the MLS championship because MLS soccer sucks. We were watching DVR Champions League games at that time. We did switch over briefly. My young children have been raised on FIFA and been to many International games abroad. They won't watch MLS. People would offer us free DC United tickets and after the one time they went they never wanted to go back. Even a 9 and 12-year old can recognize the lack of speed, touch and soccer intelligence compared to International soccer.

My biggest beef is the coaching/training and scouting in this country. It is abysmal. We have coaches that can't recognize the right attributes. They are still evaluating on the wrong metrics and they sure as hell are training the wrong way as well.

There is a pretty big soccer culture in this country currently. And most American youths play soccer.

MLS might suck compared to other leagues but that is a crutch reason. If you are not even willing to watch a game on TV then how can the league grow? Sorry, soccer snobbery does not equate "culture".

[Anonymous]

^^it can’t if we can’t change the way Americans play soccer. That is the crux. College, pro, soccer in the US is not pretty and we stick to the same manner of training/playing. If we cant quit lionizimg 9-12 year old travel players and focus on developing them all equally instead, I have no hope for the future. There is a lot of $ in youth sports and those reaping the rewards do not want change. Many would be out of a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^it can’t if we can’t change the way Americans play soccer. That is the crux. College, pro, soccer in the US is not pretty and we stick to the same manner of training/playing. If we cant quit lionizimg 9-12 year old travel players and focus on developing them all equally instead, I have no hope for the future. There is a lot of $ in youth sports and those reaping the rewards do not want change. Many would be out of a job.

Oh my god. Just take your kid to a MLS game if you can. Tune in to the occasional game on TV. Support a local USL team if that is all you have or take your kid to a major College soccer game.

Expose your little 9-12 to the live game in person and on TV. Kick the ball around with them. Emphasize their technical game at a young age in fun ways and let them fall in love with the game.

If YOU do all of the above and convince a friend with a soccer playing kid to do the same all will be just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^it can’t if we can’t change the way Americans play soccer. That is the crux. College, pro, soccer in the US is not pretty and we stick to the same manner of training/playing. If we cant quit lionizimg 9-12 year old travel players and focus on developing them all equally instead, I have no hope for the future. There is a lot of $ in youth sports and those reaping the rewards do not want change. Many would be out of a job.

Oh my god. Just take your kid to a MLS game if you can. Tune in to the occasional game on TV. Support a local USL team if that is all you have or take your kid to a major College soccer game.

Expose your little 9-12 to the live game in person and on TV. Kick the ball around with them. Emphasize their technical game at a young age in fun ways and let them fall in love with the game.

If YOU do all of the above and convince a friend with a soccer playing kid to do the same all will be just fine.

Thanks, but I think you are confusing me with somebody else. My kids have seen 6 games played live abroad in major stadiums (Spain, Germany, England, Italy) in their short lifetimes. They also regularly watch Georgetown soccer. They grew up with a ball at their feet as soon as they were standing since many of their relatives have played at the highest levels. None of those things are my problem. My problem is now that they are immersed in the youth programs in the area---it is so hard to find quality training/playing in the travel club world. And, by that, I mean not just 'winning', but 'developing'. We've been to the top clubs and I have been underwhelmed. I don't see it getting better up the system by the soccer we see at the US college and pro level.

You can call it 'snobbery' if you must, but I prefer to call it 'honesty'. I have a very hard time reading a lot of what is written on this board and listening to parents on the sidelines. So--with that I bid adieu.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^it can’t if we can’t change the way Americans play soccer. That is the crux. College, pro, soccer in the US is not pretty and we stick to the same manner of training/playing. If we cant quit lionizimg 9-12 year old travel players and focus on developing them all equally instead, I have no hope for the future. There is a lot of $ in youth sports and those reaping the rewards do not want change. Many would be out of a job.

Oh my god. Just take your kid to a MLS game if you can. Tune in to the occasional game on TV. Support a local USL team if that is all you have or take your kid to a major College soccer game.

Expose your little 9-12 to the live game in person and on TV. Kick the ball around with them. Emphasize their technical game at a young age in fun ways and let them fall in love with the game.

If YOU do all of the above and convince a friend with a soccer playing kid to do the same all will be just fine.

Thanks, but I think you are confusing me with somebody else. My kids have seen 6 games played live abroad in major stadiums (Spain, Germany, England, Italy) in their short lifetimes. They also regularly watch Georgetown soccer. They grew up with a ball at their feet as soon as they were standing since many of their relatives have played at the highest levels. None of those things are my problem. My problem is now that they are immersed in the youth programs in the area---it is so hard to find quality training/playing in the travel club world. And, by that, I mean not just 'winning', but 'developing'. We've been to the top clubs and I have been underwhelmed. I don't see it getting better up the system by the soccer we see at the US college and pro level.

You can call it 'snobbery' if you must, but I prefer to call it 'honesty'. I have a very hard time reading a lot of what is written on this board and listening to parents on the sidelines. So--with that I bid adieu.

Sigh.....There is no simple silver bullet fix. I'm sure you are a very well healed soccer enthusiast and your kids will be fine but the game lacks a cultural and social passion here. Win over a neighbor or a friend of your kids to the game. Stop being so snobby about the soccer options here and embrace what we do have and try to make it better. I love watching European Soccer as much as the next guy but that isn't building the brand here. While it is exposing people to the game we need raise the profile of our own leagues and your bashing MLS or College soccer doesn't help. All you succeed at doing is turning people off.

[Anonymous]

And to follow up. There is real tangible difference in rooting for local team versus picking your Premier League team of choice. While we can watch the games and appreciate the quality I don't think we can understand the passion that a Liverpool City resident feels when their underdog Everton ties Liverpool. We need that passion in our leagues here.

Sure we get excited every four years for World Cup but we need to be more engaged for the sport to actually grow and kids to really want to play.

[Anonymous]

I don't think the correct path is...just suck it up and do your best to stomach MLS by going to games and watching it on TV because it will help US soccer. The path should be, MLS needs to provide a better product to get us "snobs" to watch. We took my U9 team to a DCU match a few years ago. During our season leading up to the game, we preached taking care of the ball. The opening kick off went back to one of the backs and he blasted it as far as he could to the other team. Every kid and parent looked at me. I was at a loss for words. Never went back. My 10 year old son laughs at MLS games on TV more than anything. I would love him to get passionate about DCU, but how can you? It's awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the correct path is...just suck it up and do your best to stomach MLS by going to games and watching it on TV because it will help US soccer. The path should be, MLS needs to provide a better product to get us "snobs" to watch. We took my U9 team to a DCU match a few years ago. During our season leading up to the game, we preached taking care of the ball. The opening kick off went back to one of the backs and he blasted it as far as he could to the other team. Every kid and parent looked at me. I was at a loss for words. Never went back. My 10 year old son laughs at MLS games on TV more than anything. I would love him to get passionate about DCU, but how can you? It's awful.

I outlined 4 things that need to be done infrastructure wise. On top of it MLS needs to be profitable in order to help draw talent. But it can’t throw stupid money at players either or you crash and burn like the China Super League. But the professional sport needs to grow and become popular here or we will never stand a chance in the world stage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the correct path is...just suck it up and do your best to stomach MLS by going to games and watching it on TV because it will help US soccer. The path should be, MLS needs to provide a better product to get us "snobs" to watch. We took my U9 team to a DCU match a few years ago. During our season leading up to the game, we preached taking care of the ball. The opening kick off went back to one of the backs and he blasted it as far as he could to the other team. Every kid and parent looked at me. I was at a loss for words. Never went back. My 10 year old son laughs at MLS games on TV more than anything. I would love him to get passionate about DCU, but how can you? It's awful.

Don't go to a Championship game in England. Even some EPL games are blast-and run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the correct path is...just suck it up and do your best to stomach MLS by going to games and watching it on TV because it will help US soccer. The path should be, MLS needs to provide a better product to get us "snobs" to watch. We took my U9 team to a DCU match a few years ago. During our season leading up to the game, we preached taking care of the ball. The opening kick off went back to one of the backs and he blasted it as far as he could to the other team. Every kid and parent looked at me. I was at a loss for words. Never went back. My 10 year old son laughs at MLS games on TV more than anything. I would love him to get passionate about DCU, but how can you? It's awful.

How about you let your kid come to his own conclusions and support what he is passionate about. If you talk to him about MLS the way you do here you just splashed cold water on him. Good job! Let him figure out if it is awful. Do you make him watch Masterpiece Theater because Spongebob sucks too? I bet you're real fun at parties too.