Cops in TX tackle & block desperate parents, while they let shooter rampage thru the school

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

Get them out and take them where? Back to the police that put her in handcuffs?

Yes. They might put her back in handcuffs and charge her. Small price.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

NP but I think it’s unfair to say you would have taken other kids out as well. I would like to think I would have but who knows what was going on in that room to make her not do that. None of us can understand the stress, fear and pure adrenaline running through this mother’s mind and body.

I know I would have. I can say that. Leaving them in a classroom as sitting ducks. Nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/us/uvalde-shooting-police-response-timeline/index.html


According to the timeline, the cops didn’t stand around while the shooter was “killing babies”. The high likelihood is he did all his murders in the first 15 minutes of entry.

They were at the door within minutes. Imagine the possibility that some of those children bled out while they waited, and possibly could have been saved had they breached the door earlier.
No, they didn't pull the trigger, and the shooter is ultimately responsible. But what they did was indefensible.
Do you have kids? Can you imagine the abject terror of the children locked in that room with a gunman for over an hour, begging for help from police? It sickens me to look at my Teo young children and imagine them going through that...or anyone else's kids.

That is an absolutely lie. There are 9/11 calls within the timeline of the cops standing outside the door from kids inside the classroom pleading for 'police' only to be dead once they breeched it 90 minutes in.

He entered classrooms 111/112 at 11:33AM. A female student IN THOSE CLASSROOMS called police at 12:03PM and again at 12:13PM. And a third time at 12:16PM. She reported that at least 9 of her classmates were still alive.

A child was on the phone from 12:36PM - 12:47PM. The mass shooter died at 12:58PM.

https://apnews.com/article/texas-school-shooting-timeline-6069b0cf01e5f732ef55f9fd0b7109d7

Sickening.

It also doesn't address the 12 minutes he was shooting outside before all this happened. WTH were the cops?

This is a devastating timeline. When the neighbor called police, police should have order lockdowns of schools. When the funeral home people called police - police should have rushed and be posted on all doors of the school first. What the heck were they doing when they were already inside and this monster was locked in. Why did they wait for keys?

I cannot imagine the terror of the kids inside the classrooms who were calling the police and they did not come to their rescue.

The teacher who popped open the exit door should be fired immediately.

The police officers should be disciplined.

How the hell an 18 year old with so many red flags could buy that kind of guns and so many rounds of ammunition.

Gun control must be enforced NOW!

My stomach is churning after reading this timeline! What a utter shameful thing that in this country parents cannot have their kids safe in school and some of these kids will grow up with serious mental health issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don’t have a propped door; you don’t have an ingress point. It is not delusional to focus on the door.

Correct. The moment the shooter is in the building, it changes EVERYTHING.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You see, it was the school’s fault! If pinky they’d kept their doors shut, they wouldn’t have been asking for it.

My god. The depravity if you guns nuts knows no limits.

Who said they were asking for it? Do you leave your home doors propped open all night?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You see, it was the school’s fault! If pinky they’d kept their doors shut, they wouldn’t have been asking for it.

My god. The depravity if you guns nuts knows no limits.

Who said they were asking for it? Do you leave your home doors propped open all night?

DP. I lock my doors at night, but it would only take a few seconds for someone with a gun to shoot through our sliding glass doors on the back.

The victim blaming here is disgusting. Most schools take precautions to prevent unwanted visitors but they aren’t impenetrable fortresses because, well, they are schools.

The issue isn’t the schools. The issue is the easy access to weapons of mass killings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

NP but I think it’s unfair to say you would have taken other kids out as well. I would like to think I would have but who knows what was going on in that room to make her not do that. None of us can understand the stress, fear and pure adrenaline running through this mother’s mind and body.

The teacher may have been following protocol and would not let the other kids leave and kept them safe in the room. I don't think any parent was under any obligation to take out any other children than their own. I would like to think I would try but I honestly don't know what them done. One pumping knowing the cops weren't doing anything. I don't know how I would have reacted.
I consistently don't understand like more people don't go out windows of first story rooms.

Those inside did not know where the gunman was. Since the woman made it safely to the classroom, it's reasonable to assume at that point he was not there. He also knew if he moved around the school, he would have gotten shot at. He wasn't taking that risk. We know this because he hasn't moved positions in quite a while.

Protocol no longer matters. Sorry teacher. The police were outside. The gunman was inside. Did the parent get her kids out through an outside door to the classroom? If so, it was much safer to get the kids out of the classroom where the police can provide cover. She clearly felt safe enough to get her own kids out. She took that risk. I'm not saying she was wrong or right, but leaving 20+ kids behind while you take your own ... I personally can't imagine it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You see, it was the school’s fault! If pinky they’d kept their doors shut, they wouldn’t have been asking for it.

My god. The depravity if you guns nuts knows no limits.

Who said they were asking for it? Do you leave your home doors propped open all night?

DP. I lock my doors at night, but it would only take a few seconds for someone with a gun to shoot through our sliding glass doors on the back.

The victim blaming here is disgusting. Most schools take precautions to prevent unwanted visitors but they aren’t impenetrable fortresses because, well, they are schools.

The issue isn’t the schools. The issue is the easy access to weapons of mass killings.

That's a LOT of noise to make to get inside. More likely, they would come with a glass cutter. Shooting out a glass door involves entering through broken glass.

No one is suggesting impenetrable fortresses. We simply wondered why a side door, probably a fire door, was not pulled shut after the teacher got his/her phone from the car. And why it was propped open to begin with. It's not victim-blaming to expect basic protocol to be followed.

[Anonymous]

The Chairborne rangers posting from their Barcoloungers obvious out have had tons of training under live fire to be able to espouse how they would respond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You see, it was the school’s fault! If pinky they’d kept their doors shut, they wouldn’t have been asking for it.

My god. The depravity if you guns nuts knows no limits.

Who said they were asking for it? Do you leave your home doors propped open all night?

DP. I lock my doors at night, but it would only take a few seconds for someone with a gun to shoot through our sliding glass doors on the back.

The victim blaming here is disgusting. Most schools take precautions to prevent unwanted visitors but they aren’t impenetrable fortresses because, well, they are schools.

The issue isn’t the schools. The issue is the easy access to weapons of mass killings.

That's a LOT of noise to make to get inside. More likely, they would come with a glass cutter. Shooting out a glass door involves entering through broken glass.

No one is suggesting impenetrable fortresses. We simply wondered why a side door, probably a fire door, was not pulled shut after the teacher got his/her phone from the car. And why it was propped open to begin with. It's not victim-blaming to expect basic protocol to be followed.

There was already noise outside - the gunman shot multiple times before entering.

It’s absolutely victim blaming. Maybe the door jammed. Maybe she panicked when she saw the shooter.

The shooter entered with a weapon of mass killing that he legally obtained. Focusing on the door is deliberate deflection from the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You see, it was the school’s fault! If pinky they’d kept their doors shut, they wouldn’t have been asking for it.

My god. The depravity if you guns nuts knows no limits.

Who said they were asking for it? Do you leave your home doors propped open all night?

DP. I lock my doors at night, but it would only take a few seconds for someone with a gun to shoot through our sliding glass doors on the back.

The victim blaming here is disgusting. Most schools take precautions to prevent unwanted visitors but they aren’t impenetrable fortresses because, well, they are schools.

The issue isn’t the schools. The issue is the easy access to weapons of mass killings.

That's a LOT of noise to make to get inside. More likely, they would come with a glass cutter. Shooting out a glass door involves entering through broken glass.

No one is suggesting impenetrable fortresses. We simply wondered why a side door, probably a fire door, was not pulled shut after the teacher got his/her phone from the car. And why it was propped open to begin with. It's not victim-blaming to expect basic protocol to be followed.

There was already noise outside - the gunman shot multiple times before entering.

It’s absolutely victim blaming. Maybe the door jammed. Maybe she panicked when she saw the shooter.

The shooter entered with a weapon of mass killing that he legally obtained. Focusing on the door is deliberate deflection from the issue.

+1 Yes, it's deflection. Blame the teacher who left the door open. Blame the cops that didn't run into fire in a confusing situation. Blame everyone and everything except for the legal framework that allows mentally unstable teenagers to buy AR-15s and high capacity magazines holdings thousands of bullets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Chairborne rangers posting from their Barcoloungers obvious out have had tons of training under live fire to be able to espouse how they would respond.

We can all watch the police respond and see for ourselves that they don't even want to take on theses weapons. We need to get rid of them and everyone can see that from armchairs to every other kind of chair.

Except for the cynical depraved gun industry that profits.

[Anonymous]

Is anyone else afraid for Biden and his trip to Texas. Every elected republican official in the state has gone right up to the line in threatening Biden and out and out said he is not the legitimate president. Biden stole the election. The police force who will be providing the perimeter security is incompetent and openly hostile to Biden. It is very worrying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else afraid for Biden and his trip to Texas. Every elected republican official in the state has gone right up to the line in threatening Biden and out and out said he is not the legitimate president. Biden stole the election. The police force who will be providing the perimeter security is incompetent and openly hostile to Biden. It is very worrying.

Presumably he knows what security he can and can't trust. Mike pence knew not to get in that car on Jan 6th.

[Anonymous]

The school security officer was not on campus. That’s a bigger deal than the door.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/28/uvalde-classroom-police-911-failure/

On Friday, McCraw added that the school police officer was not on campus but rushed there after the 911 call about a man with a gun at the crash.

“He drove right by the suspect,” who was crouched behind a vehicle in the parking lot, and mistook a teacher for an intruder, McCraw said.