Good safety schools for those who like W&M?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is definitely not a safety for WM. Anecdotally, I know several kids who got into WM and got rejected from UVA, not even waitlisted. In fact, one person got into WM, but got waitlisted at VT (was for their comsci program, though)...and she was one of several valedictorians!

This happened to one of DS's friends too.

VT did a lot of yield protection this year as has been discussed many times on this forum

Who do you know on the admissions committee who told you that? Otherwise you have zero way of knowing. VT is a selective school. If your kid doesn't get in it means there were better applicants, not that the school thought you were too good for it.

don't have a dog in this race, but in my DC's class, kids who were clearly lower ranker, lower GPA, lower SAT, were accepted and higher stats (top 5-10%) were wait listed. It is clear that those lower ranked students are not "better applicants", they are simply the applicants who were more likely to actually go to VT.

This is purely anecdotal and proves nothing. Also, you really don’t know everything that is only every student’s application. Pure conjecture on your part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is definitely not a safety for WM. Anecdotally, I know several kids who got into WM and got rejected from UVA, not even waitlisted. In fact, one person got into WM, but got waitlisted at VT (was for their comsci program, though)...and she was one of several valedictorians!

This happened to one of DS's friends too.

VT did a lot of yield protection this year as has been discussed many times on this forum

Who do you know on the admissions committee who told you that? Otherwise you have zero way of knowing. VT is a selective school. If your kid doesn't get in it means there were better applicants, not that the school thought you were too good for it.

don't have a dog in this race, but in my DC's class, kids who were clearly lower ranker, lower GPA, lower SAT, were accepted and higher stats (top 5-10%) were wait listed. It is clear that those lower ranked students are not "better applicants", they are simply the applicants who were more likely to actually go to VT.

This is purely anecdotal and proves nothing. Also, you really don’t know everything that is only every student’s application. Pure conjecture on your part.

Not the pp but you are literally so ignorant it’s suffocating. VT easily yield protected this year, and a school with a 70% acceptance rate is not “selective” by any measure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is definitely not a safety for WM. Anecdotally, I know several kids who got into WM and got rejected from UVA, not even waitlisted. In fact, one person got into WM, but got waitlisted at VT (was for their comsci program, though)...and she was one of several valedictorians!

This happened to one of DS's friends too.

VT did a lot of yield protection this year as has been discussed many times on this forum

Who do you know on the admissions committee who told you that? Otherwise you have zero way of knowing. VT is a selective school. If your kid doesn't get in it means there were better applicants, not that the school thought you were too good for it.

don't have a dog in this race, but in my DC's class, kids who were clearly lower ranker, lower GPA, lower SAT, were accepted and higher stats (top 5-10%) were wait listed. It is clear that those lower ranked students are not "better applicants", they are simply the applicants who were more likely to actually go to VT.

This is purely anecdotal and proves nothing. Also, you really don’t know everything that is only every student’s application. Pure conjecture on your part.

This is what it looks like in our hs data too. Of course not sure if it's actual yield protection--but it's a weird stripe of acceptances. VT has struggled for years for predicting enrollment (under-enrolling one year, over-enrolling the next etc.) and it has caused real problems for them, so maybe they are trying new ways to accept better who will come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know—certain slacs like Kenyon and all that, I guess. But W&M isn’t a slac and it is really trying to emphasize that it’s a university, not a college. Closest thing that comes to mind is Wake Forest without a med school. But WF would not be a safety. It’s just tough to understand how to categorize W&M. So I have no idea.

William and Mary has 5 different schools, Arts & Sciences, Business, Education, Law, and Marine Science. Law and Marine Science are graduate only. The other three, Arts & Sciences, Business, and Education are fairly typical schools for universities (a number of the most selective schools like Harvard do not have undergraduate business). The biggest delta with other selective universities at an undergraduate level is probably engineering. W&M has applied science, but not full blown engineering other than through a 3:2 program. A university like UVA adds Nursing and Architecture, but the bulk of the undergraduates there are in Arts & Sciences, Engineering, and Business (Commerce).

Wake and Emory are perhaps similar from a size and offering standpoint. University of Rochester is similar in size but has engineering and also a top music school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is definitely not a safety for WM. Anecdotally, I know several kids who got into WM and got rejected from UVA, not even waitlisted. In fact, one person got into WM, but got waitlisted at VT (was for their comsci program, though)...and she was one of several valedictorians!

It really is a crapshoot. My oldest was waitlisted at W&M but accepted to UVA. My youngest was waitlisted at both but got into UVA off the waitlist in June. Both were girls. Generally speaking, a boy applying to both has a better chance at W&M for sure, but for girls it's either even or slightly more difficult for them to get into W&M. Gender definitely matters.

In contrast to your point, (I'm the PP you are responding to), the examples I provided were girls... they got into WM, but rejected from UVA, and the one girl was also waitlisted at VT. So, gender might not play so large a role.



If OP wants "SAFETY" schools, by definition, they would need to be a lower category than WM. U Richmond and UMW seem like the best options in VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is definitely not a safety for WM. Anecdotally, I know several kids who got into WM and got rejected from UVA, not even waitlisted. In fact, one person got into WM, but got waitlisted at VT (was for their comsci program, though)...and she was one of several valedictorians!

It really is a crapshoot. My oldest was waitlisted at W&M but accepted to UVA. My youngest was waitlisted at both but got into UVA off the waitlist in June. Both were girls. Generally speaking, a boy applying to both has a better chance at W&M for sure, but for girls it's either even or slightly more difficult for them to get into W&M. Gender definitely matters.

In contrast to your point, (I'm the PP you are responding to), the examples I provided were girls... they got into WM, but rejected from UVA, and the one girl was also waitlisted at VT. So, gender might not play so large a role.



If OP wants "SAFETY" schools, by definition, they would need to be a lower category than WM. U Richmond and UMW seem like the best options in VA.

U of Richmond admitted students stats aren’t meaningfully different from those of W&M.

[Anonymous]

From most recent CDS:

U of R:
SAT Composite 1290 1440
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 630 710
SAT Math 650 750
ACT Composite 30 33

W&M:

SAT Composite 1300 1490
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 660 740
SAT Math 640 750
ACT Composite 30 34

I don't believe that Richmond is in a "lower category" than W&M and I would certainly not consider it to be a safety school.

[Anonymous]

CNU all the way! (Huge fan...so happy there is a ‘new kid in town’ since I went to public university in VA from NoVa.. lots of demand for good in state options!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From most recent CDS:

U of R:
SAT Composite 1290 1440
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 630 710
SAT Math 650 750
ACT Composite 30 33

W&M:

SAT Composite 1300 1490
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 660 740
SAT Math 640 750
ACT Composite 30 34

I don't believe that Richmond is in a "lower category" than W&M and I would certainly not consider it to be a safety school.

The biggest difference between W&M and UR is going to be around class rank and GPA. W&M, as a state school, is somewhat bound to closely evaluate grades and class rank. For the 2020 entering class, 77% were in the top 10% in class rank vs. 50% at UR. But I agree it shouldn't be considered a safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CNU all the way! (Huge fan...so happy there is a ‘new kid in town’ since I went to public university in VA from NoVa.. lots of demand for good in state options!)

IME kids who love W&M really don't like CNU. Not sure why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is definitely not a safety for WM. Anecdotally, I know several kids who got into WM and got rejected from UVA, not even waitlisted. In fact, one person got into WM, but got waitlisted at VT (was for their comsci program, though)...and she was one of several valedictorians!

It really is a crapshoot. My oldest was waitlisted at W&M but accepted to UVA. My youngest was waitlisted at both but got into UVA off the waitlist in June. Both were girls. Generally speaking, a boy applying to both has a better chance at W&M for sure, but for girls it's either even or slightly more difficult for them to get into W&M. Gender definitely matters.

In contrast to your point, (I'm the PP you are responding to), the examples I provided were girls... they got into WM, but rejected from UVA, and the one girl was also waitlisted at VT. So, gender might not play so large a role.



If OP wants "SAFETY" schools, by definition, they would need to be a lower category than WM. U Richmond and UMW seem like the best options in VA.

Take a look at the common data set for each school. You’ll see that all things being equal a boy has a better chance at W&M than a girl does. Fact. Not anecdote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNU all the way! (Huge fan...so happy there is a ‘new kid in town’ since I went to public university in VA from NoVa.. lots of demand for good in state options!)

IME kids who love W&M really don't like CNU. Not sure why.

I think it's the "shiny, new" feel of CNU. If you like the history, old feel of W&M, UMW has that vibe more than CNU. Those two schools have almost exactly the same student SAT/GPA profile but seem to appeal to different types of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From most recent CDS:

U of R:
SAT Composite 1290 1440
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 630 710
SAT Math 650 750
ACT Composite 30 33

W&M:

SAT Composite 1300 1490
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 660 740
SAT Math 640 750
ACT Composite 30 34

I don't believe that Richmond is in a "lower category" than W&M and I would certainly not consider it to be a safety school.

The biggest difference between W&M and UR is going to be around class rank and GPA. W&M, as a state school, is somewhat bound to closely evaluate grades and class rank. For the 2020 entering class, 77% were in the top 10% in class rank vs. 50% at UR. But I agree it shouldn't be considered a safety.

I would wager that more U of R students than W&M students graduated from privates that don’t rank. Privates don’t weight GPAs like, for example, Loudoun public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNU all the way! (Huge fan...so happy there is a ‘new kid in town’ since I went to public university in VA from NoVa.. lots of demand for good in state options!)

IME kids who love W&M really don't like CNU. Not sure why.

I get that. But, we’re talking about a safety here. I didn’t love the feel of my shiny new safety either, but I didn’t get into the state flagship I wanted. My parents only allowed me to go in state. Life goes on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Anyone know anything about The College of New Jersey? It seems to have some similarities, definitely similar in size.

NJ native here. Yes, CNJ definitely qualifies as a poor man's William & Mary. Only 7 percent of its students are from out of state and they're working to increase that so it's actually easier to get in from out of state than in. They also offer merit aid.

Of course, it's got nowhere near the reputation of William & Mary. But in the tri-state area it's highly regarded.

It is? NJ native here and I have never heard of it - is it the former Trenton State? If so, I would hardly call it “highly regarded” in NJ - the state flagship Rutgers is barely highly regarded by many NJ residents.

Then you're behind the times, that's all. Because yes, it is highly regarded. It's actually more selective than Rutgers.

And yes, you've heard of it. You know it's the former Trenton State. You're just being cute.

Rutgers isn’t selective either.

Depends on the college. Anyone can get into Livingston. Rutgers College is much more selective