Budget Frustration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

Sure, I think she thinks I could earn more money, but I have no idea how to do that. I have gotten dozens of job offers, none with any salary improvement nor clear path to higher comp. I grew up pretty poor and fell into a govt contracting job which is family friendly and steady. I think I could maybe go into consulting, but that would require much longer hours and travel, which she ALSO had issues with early on my career (I remember before we had kids she was annoyed if I was at work late). So I need to find a job which has high pay but normal hours, so that means a FAANG or finance job most likely, so good luck to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

Sure, I think she thinks I could earn more money, but I have no idea how to do that. I have gotten dozens of job offers, none with any salary improvement nor clear path to higher comp. I grew up pretty poor and fell into a govt contracting job which is family friendly and steady. I think I could maybe go into consulting, but that would require much longer hours and travel, which she ALSO had issues with early on my career (I remember before we had kids she was annoyed if I was at work late). So I need to find a job which has high pay but normal hours, so that means a FAANG or finance job most likely, so good luck to me.

Hearken back to those days and remember how to save money. I grew up poor and now make bank and I also don't look at grocery prices and spend like a drunken sailor. But I can (and sometimes do, just for the reminder) stop spending like that on a dime. It's time for you to stop. Stop looking down on YMCA camps. Stop spending 1500/month on food. Stop buying organic and planning three separate big vacations for a family of five. Stop arguing with everyone who points out that your spending cannot continue at this level.
Institute some freaking austerity measures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

Sure, I think she thinks I could earn more money, but I have no idea how to do that. I have gotten dozens of job offers, none with any salary improvement nor clear path to higher comp. I grew up pretty poor and fell into a govt contracting job which is family friendly and steady. I think I could maybe go into consulting, but that would require much longer hours and travel, which she ALSO had issues with early on my career (I remember before we had kids she was annoyed if I was at work late). So I need to find a job which has high pay but normal hours, so that means a FAANG or finance job most likely, so good luck to me.

OP, I understand your frustration. I think you need to put together spreadsheets and you need to articulate what you feel the "deal you made" is, and the specifics of how you got there. No deal is set in stone, but given where both of your decisions have led you, how need to come up with a plan for how best to move forward. I would make sure you stay calm and in no way accusatory or martyred. You just want to find a workable path forward for your family.

If you can make more getting a job that necessitates traveling, then it might be time for you to do that. And I understand that this will be a huge lifestyle change for you. And your DW had to take into consideration how that will effect your family as a whole. Right now she is probably just plain unhappy and not thinking anything through. She just wants off the treadmill and to be able to spend more time with the kids.

One last piece based on your last comment of "so good luck to me." I think you need to find a way to pull out your CV and polish it, make it pop, shine. If you are getting plenty of job offers that means you're good at whatever it is you do. You just aren't conveying any sort of wow factor. Get new clothes, a new hair cut, work out, present yourself as someone who is energetic and excited for your next opportunity. Put that goal out there that something in FAANG or finance is possible. My DH does a lot of recruiting, and my job is analysis of people. So we talk a lot about the people he is looking at. Tons of people have the same qualifications, but fewer make you want to work with them. Everyone wants to tie themselves to the person who is going to come in and make their lives easier.

That might have been completely off base, but I think this is hard and you are faltering a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

Sure, I think she thinks I could earn more money, but I have no idea how to do that. I have gotten dozens of job offers, none with any salary improvement nor clear path to higher comp. I grew up pretty poor and fell into a govt contracting job which is family friendly and steady. I think I could maybe go into consulting, but that would require much longer hours and travel, which she ALSO had issues with early on my career (I remember before we had kids she was annoyed if I was at work late). So I need to find a job which has high pay but normal hours, so that means a FAANG or finance job most likely, so good luck to me.

Hearken back to those days and remember how to save money. I grew up poor and now make bank and I also don't look at grocery prices and spend like a drunken sailor. But I can (and sometimes do, just for the reminder) stop spending like that on a dime. It's time for you to stop. Stop looking down on YMCA camps. Stop spending 1500/month on food. Stop buying organic and planning three separate big vacations for a family of five. Stop arguing with everyone who points out that your spending cannot continue at this level.
Institute some freaking austerity measures.

You are not reading that it is DW who doesn't want to make the cuts. He is willing, just doesn't know how to get DW on board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

Sure, I think she thinks I could earn more money, but I have no idea how to do that. I have gotten dozens of job offers, none with any salary improvement nor clear path to higher comp. I grew up pretty poor and fell into a govt contracting job which is family friendly and steady. I think I could maybe go into consulting, but that would require much longer hours and travel, which she ALSO had issues with early on my career (I remember before we had kids she was annoyed if I was at work late). So I need to find a job which has high pay but normal hours, so that means a FAANG or finance job most likely, so good luck to me.

Hearken back to those days and remember how to save money. I grew up poor and now make bank and I also don't look at grocery prices and spend like a drunken sailor. But I can (and sometimes do, just for the reminder) stop spending like that on a dime. It's time for you to stop. Stop looking down on YMCA camps. Stop spending 1500/month on food. Stop buying organic and planning three separate big vacations for a family of five. Stop arguing with everyone who points out that your spending cannot continue at this level.
Institute some freaking austerity measures.

You are not reading that it is DW who doesn't want to make the cuts. He is willing, just doesn't know how to get DW on board.

I've read the whole thread, including when everyone thought he was the DW. The position has always been that she doesn't want to move, but he's the one responding to comments. He's the one saying the camps were not "worthwhile" and the food is mostly organic and he doesn't have time to bargain shop for lawn equipment. He has not shown any willingness in direct responses, just a delayed "well how do I get her on board" after the board turned on him. Unless your position is that she's been ghostwriting his responses the whole time, you are the one not reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

Sure, I think she thinks I could earn more money, but I have no idea how to do that. I have gotten dozens of job offers, none with any salary improvement nor clear path to higher comp. I grew up pretty poor and fell into a govt contracting job which is family friendly and steady. I think I could maybe go into consulting, but that would require much longer hours and travel, which she ALSO had issues with early on my career (I remember before we had kids she was annoyed if I was at work late). So I need to find a job which has high pay but normal hours, so that means a FAANG or finance job most likely, so good luck to me.

Hearken back to those days and remember how to save money. I grew up poor and now make bank and I also don't look at grocery prices and spend like a drunken sailor. But I can (and sometimes do, just for the reminder) stop spending like that on a dime. It's time for you to stop. Stop looking down on YMCA camps. Stop spending 1500/month on food. Stop buying organic and planning three separate big vacations for a family of five. Stop arguing with everyone who points out that your spending cannot continue at this level.
Institute some freaking austerity measures.

You are not reading that it is DW who doesn't want to make the cuts. He is willing, just doesn't know how to get DW on board.

I've read the whole thread, including when everyone thought he was the DW. The position has always been that she doesn't want to move, but he's the one responding to comments. He's the one saying the camps were not "worthwhile" and the food is mostly organic and he doesn't have time to bargain shop for lawn equipment. He has not shown any willingness in direct responses, just a delayed "well how do I get her on board" after the board turned on him. Unless your position is that she's been ghostwriting his responses the whole time, you are the one not reading.

This made me smile because I actually think I recognize you from your responses. That said (a tell for me) I pointed out in one of my preceding responses that I think he feels he can't get a better job, and DW probably feels he isn't trying hard enough. He needs to try harder. And they both together need to come up with a plan for how to move forward in this new paradigm. I think the both need a reality check, and he is getting a healthy dose of that on all fronts here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

Sure, I think she thinks I could earn more money, but I have no idea how to do that. I have gotten dozens of job offers, none with any salary improvement nor clear path to higher comp. I grew up pretty poor and fell into a govt contracting job which is family friendly and steady. I think I could maybe go into consulting, but that would require much longer hours and travel, which she ALSO had issues with early on my career (I remember before we had kids she was annoyed if I was at work late). So I need to find a job which has high pay but normal hours, so that means a FAANG or finance job most likely, so good luck to me.

Hearken back to those days and remember how to save money. I grew up poor and now make bank and I also don't look at grocery prices and spend like a drunken sailor. But I can (and sometimes do, just for the reminder) stop spending like that on a dime. It's time for you to stop. Stop looking down on YMCA camps. Stop spending 1500/month on food. Stop buying organic and planning three separate big vacations for a family of five. Stop arguing with everyone who points out that your spending cannot continue at this level.
Institute some freaking austerity measures.

You are not reading that it is DW who doesn't want to make the cuts. He is willing, just doesn't know how to get DW on board.

I've read the whole thread, including when everyone thought he was the DW. The position has always been that she doesn't want to move, but he's the one responding to comments. He's the one saying the camps were not "worthwhile" and the food is mostly organic and he doesn't have time to bargain shop for lawn equipment. He has not shown any willingness in direct responses, just a delayed "well how do I get her on board" after the board turned on him. Unless your position is that she's been ghostwriting his responses the whole time, you are the one not reading.

This made me smile because I actually think I recognize you from your responses. That said (a tell for me) I pointed out in one of my preceding responses that I think he feels he can't get a better job, and DW probably feels he isn't trying hard enough. He needs to try harder. And they both together need to come up with a plan for how to move forward in this new paradigm. I think the both need a reality check, and he is getting a healthy dose of that on all fronts here.

I agree they both need a reality check. I think she could probably get a better paying job than a 60% pay cut but is probably burned out and not really trying. I think he could probably get a better paying job but is content with his work/life balance and hasn't really *needed* one while she was making so much money. And I think they can live a very nice life in a suburb with decent public schools with the $250k HHI. They might have to settle for a beach house a few blocks from the beach, but worse things have happened to better people.

[Anonymous]

You need to sell that house! It's an albatross. I'm guessing it will also give you a much needed infusion of cash.

I'm the woman. But left my 425k job for a 175k job in 20q9. My old job was killing me. I might have been swimming in cash, but what good would I be to my family if I was dead.

First thing we did we refinance our house. However our home definitely is valued at less, as out mortgage now I'd $2k/mo. It'd a wonderful feeling to have a mortgage that is this low. Takes a ton of pressure off. Plus I still can have nice things. We are a dual income family. I went from higher earner of the two of us to the lower. The nice thing is I'm home more and my job is very low key so DH has been able to focus more on his job. Maybe yours will ramp up when your DH takes a back seat.

[Anonymous]

How long is she able to stay at the pay she is at now? Can you try living at the reduced pay cut for a month or so, while saving the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

Sure, I think she thinks I could earn more money, but I have no idea how to do that. I have gotten dozens of job offers, none with any salary improvement nor clear path to higher comp. I grew up pretty poor and fell into a govt contracting job which is family friendly and steady. I think I could maybe go into consulting, but that would require much longer hours and travel, which she ALSO had issues with early on my career (I remember before we had kids she was annoyed if I was at work late). So I need to find a job which has high pay but normal hours, so that means a FAANG or finance job most likely, so good luck to me.

Hearken back to those days and remember how to save money. I grew up poor and now make bank and I also don't look at grocery prices and spend like a drunken sailor. But I can (and sometimes do, just for the reminder) stop spending like that on a dime. It's time for you to stop. Stop looking down on YMCA camps. Stop spending 1500/month on food. Stop buying organic and planning three separate big vacations for a family of five. Stop arguing with everyone who points out that your spending cannot continue at this level.
Institute some freaking austerity measures.

You are not reading that it is DW who doesn't want to make the cuts. He is willing, just doesn't know how to get DW on board.

I've read the whole thread, including when everyone thought he was the DW. The position has always been that she doesn't want to move, but he's the one responding to comments. He's the one saying the camps were not "worthwhile" and the food is mostly organic and he doesn't have time to bargain shop for lawn equipment. He has not shown any willingness in direct responses, just a delayed "well how do I get her on board" after the board turned on him. Unless your position is that she's been ghostwriting his responses the whole time, you are the one not reading.

This made me smile because I actually think I recognize you from your responses. That said (a tell for me) I pointed out in one of my preceding responses that I think he feels he can't get a better job, and DW probably feels he isn't trying hard enough. He needs to try harder. And they both together need to come up with a plan for how to move forward in this new paradigm. I think the both need a reality check, and he is getting a healthy dose of that on all fronts here.

I agree they both need a reality check. I think she could probably get a better paying job than a 60% pay cut but is probably burned out and not really trying. I think he could probably get a better paying job but is content with his work/life balance and hasn't really *needed* one while she was making so much money. And I think they can live a very nice life in a suburb with decent public schools with the $250k HHI. They might have to settle for a beach house a few blocks from the beach, but worse things have happened to better people.

Agreed. I believe the bolded sums it up. Now they need a new plan as to how to move forward at this point in their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

Sure, I think she thinks I could earn more money, but I have no idea how to do that. I have gotten dozens of job offers, none with any salary improvement nor clear path to higher comp. I grew up pretty poor and fell into a govt contracting job which is family friendly and steady. I think I could maybe go into consulting, but that would require much longer hours and travel, which she ALSO had issues with early on my career (I remember before we had kids she was annoyed if I was at work late). So I need to find a job which has high pay but normal hours, so that means a FAANG or finance job most likely, so good luck to me.

Hearken back to those days and remember how to save money. I grew up poor and now make bank and I also don't look at grocery prices and spend like a drunken sailor. But I can (and sometimes do, just for the reminder) stop spending like that on a dime. It's time for you to stop. Stop looking down on YMCA camps. Stop spending 1500/month on food. Stop buying organic and planning three separate big vacations for a family of five. Stop arguing with everyone who points out that your spending cannot continue at this level.
Institute some freaking austerity measures.

You are not reading that it is DW who doesn't want to make the cuts. He is willing, just doesn't know how to get DW on board.

I've read the whole thread, including when everyone thought he was the DW. The position has always been that she doesn't want to move, but he's the one responding to comments. He's the one saying the camps were not "worthwhile" and the food is mostly organic and he doesn't have time to bargain shop for lawn equipment. He has not shown any willingness in direct responses, just a delayed "well how do I get her on board" after the board turned on him. Unless your position is that she's been ghostwriting his responses the whole time, you are the one not reading.

This made me smile because I actually think I recognize you from your responses. That said (a tell for me) I pointed out in one of my preceding responses that I think he feels he can't get a better job, and DW probably feels he isn't trying hard enough. He needs to try harder. And they both together need to come up with a plan for how to move forward in this new paradigm. I think the both need a reality check, and he is getting a healthy dose of that on all fronts here.

I agree they both need a reality check. I think she could probably get a better paying job than a 60% pay cut but is probably burned out and not really trying. I think he could probably get a better paying job but is content with his work/life balance and hasn't really *needed* one while she was making so much money. And I think they can live a very nice life in a suburb with decent public schools with the $250k HHI. They might have to settle for a beach house a few blocks from the beach, but worse things have happened to better people.

Hmm, so as soon as you realize I’m the DH, me getting a better job is suddenly the hot topic. It was discussed and dismissed once over 6 pages when you thought I was the DW. Now you see why I was gender neutral! But I have exhausted almost every avenue to get better jobs, called up colleagues and discussed salary and they just laugh when I say my goal is higher than $200k. My field just doesn’t support it, and switching to a new career at nearly 50 seems dicey. I’m going to try some side huddles but I will he surprised if I can whip up a $100k business working in my evenings after kids are asleep.

I’m sorry I seem pessimistic, but seriously I’ve had so many offers that then sour when I realize how they are low balling me or whatever. Maybe it is me, but I started out confident that it should be easy to beat my contractor role but disappointment has worn me down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Beach Week -$416.67
Home Repair -$1,166.67 (Old house, we expect 1% repairs a year)
Streaming -$40.00
Groceries -$1,500.00
Family Trip -$250.00
Vacation -$666.67
Camps -$500.00 (3 kids 8 weeks, mostly academic enrichment)
Med -$133.33
Shop -$625.00[/b]
Kids Activities -$166.67 (rec sports and academic enrichment)
Cleaner -$300.00

All of this is per month??? You have a ton of extras in your budget. I don't know how you afford all of this now on current salaries.

If you feel you need to keep the kid's camps and activities, then get rid of all the travel. And cut back on anything but absolutely needed repairs on the house until you can get your income back up.

Yes, per month, but large costs are spread out over the year.

For example:

Beach week: this year we rented a full house near the beach, for $4k/week. Normally we spend $2k or less, but pandemic has made beach vacations harder to find and more expensive. It just us at a house, take out meals, and swimming every day. That monthly cost is dividing what we spent this year over 12 months, so sure it could go down to $200/month.

Home repairs, last year we had to replace the roof, this year we need to waterproof the basement, so I see a $10k+ job every year, on top of normal maintenance expenses.

Family trip: this is annual Xmas vacation to family, have to fly, and its usually $500/person for airline tickets and we have to rent a car while there. Family cannot travel to see us.

Vacation: One big trip of variable expense, could probably drop this for several years.

Camps. 3 kids, 8 weeks $250/week for camp. Some will be less, but if you look at academic orientated camps with actual instructors (rather than just activity camps supervised by high schoolers), that is pretty much the rate. Should be somewhat less, because some weeks will just be random sports camp, but want to budget a bit high since academics have suffered the last year.

Shop: This is higher than I would like, but includes things like yard equipment, clothes, home furnishings, etc. We moved in 3 years ago and are still settling in, so this would decrease. How much do most people spent on non-grocery Target and Costco spending per month?

Activities: RSM, rec soccer, so most people aren't paying for this?

Cleaners: We have 3 kids and a every two week cleaner. Is this high for cleaning a full house?

I can see you're going to justify and excuse away everything that will be/has been suggested here. But I'll pile on:
$1,500 for groceries?! WTH!
Cut back on travel
Clean your own house

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

Sure, I think she thinks I could earn more money, but I have no idea how to do that. I have gotten dozens of job offers, none with any salary improvement nor clear path to higher comp. I grew up pretty poor and fell into a govt contracting job which is family friendly and steady. I think I could maybe go into consulting, but that would require much longer hours and travel, which she ALSO had issues with early on my career (I remember before we had kids she was annoyed if I was at work late). So I need to find a job which has high pay but normal hours, so that means a FAANG or finance job most likely, so good luck to me.

Hearken back to those days and remember how to save money. I grew up poor and now make bank and I also don't look at grocery prices and spend like a drunken sailor. But I can (and sometimes do, just for the reminder) stop spending like that on a dime. It's time for you to stop. Stop looking down on YMCA camps. Stop spending 1500/month on food. Stop buying organic and planning three separate big vacations for a family of five. Stop arguing with everyone who points out that your spending cannot continue at this level.
Institute some freaking austerity measures.

You are not reading that it is DW who doesn't want to make the cuts. He is willing, just doesn't know how to get DW on board.

I've read the whole thread, including when everyone thought he was the DW. The position has always been that she doesn't want to move, but he's the one responding to comments. He's the one saying the camps were not "worthwhile" and the food is mostly organic and he doesn't have time to bargain shop for lawn equipment. He has not shown any willingness in direct responses, just a delayed "well how do I get her on board" after the board turned on him. Unless your position is that she's been ghostwriting his responses the whole time, you are the one not reading.

This made me smile because I actually think I recognize you from your responses. That said (a tell for me) I pointed out in one of my preceding responses that I think he feels he can't get a better job, and DW probably feels he isn't trying hard enough. He needs to try harder. And they both together need to come up with a plan for how to move forward in this new paradigm. I think the both need a reality check, and he is getting a healthy dose of that on all fronts here.

I agree they both need a reality check. I think she could probably get a better paying job than a 60% pay cut but is probably burned out and not really trying. I think he could probably get a better paying job but is content with his work/life balance and hasn't really *needed* one while she was making so much money. And I think they can live a very nice life in a suburb with decent public schools with the $250k HHI. They might have to settle for a beach house a few blocks from the beach, but worse things have happened to better people.

Hmm, so as soon as you realize I’m the DH, me getting a better job is suddenly the hot topic. It was discussed and dismissed once over 6 pages when you thought I was the DW. Now you see why I was gender neutral! But I have exhausted almost every avenue to get better jobs, called up colleagues and discussed salary and they just laugh when I say my goal is higher than $200k. My field just doesn’t support it, and switching to a new career at nearly 50 seems dicey. I’m going to try some side huddles but I will he surprised if I can whip up a $100k business working in my evenings after kids are asleep.

I’m sorry I seem pessimistic, but seriously I’ve had so many offers that then sour when I realize how they are low balling me or whatever. Maybe it is me, but I started out confident that it should be easy to beat my contractor role but disappointment has worn me down

No, I suggested many pages ago that she (then a presumptive "he") could do better than a 60% pay cut. And then at least 2 other people did as well, and you never responded to that line of inquiry. On this page, you brought up that you get "dozens" of job offers and that you grew up poor - both statements pointing toward you being worth more than you're making and just not seeing the path toward realizing that money. I'm saying both you and your wife could make more money. $150k plus a W/L balance you're happy with is a great deal, it's why so many people go gov't and stay there. That's not a dig, it's reality. People get comfortable where they are, unless they get ground down by where they are. Your relationship shows both sides. Your DW could make more money but is over it and not trying. You could make more money but don't see why you should need to. But both of you built your finances around her continuing to be highly compensated, so you can either change your lives or find ways to try to keep that HHI.

But here's the thing - you could also NOT make more money. You can live a very good life on $250k just not in your current house and not without knowing what a (non-organic) gallon of milk costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm the PP who assumed you were the DH. I think you have to sit down with spreadsheets and show DW the reality of the situation. You can't have it both ways, and she can't say let's focus on my career, let's build a lifestyle based on my career, then after that is established say, Nevermind, I don't want to be the primary breadwinner.

Of course she can step back. But that comes with costs. She has to wrap her head around that (as I believe you are trying to do) and not create a fiction in her head that your family can't cut back. At least not without going into debt.

That said, I would consider the idea that she is pushing back on cutting expenses because deep down she wishes that you had a better career, and you are being too accepting of the "reality" (to you) that you can't make more than you are so cuts and/or selling house are imperative. You both might have different ideas about what "reality" is.

Sure, I think she thinks I could earn more money, but I have no idea how to do that. I have gotten dozens of job offers, none with any salary improvement nor clear path to higher comp. I grew up pretty poor and fell into a govt contracting job which is family friendly and steady. I think I could maybe go into consulting, but that would require much longer hours and travel, which she ALSO had issues with early on my career (I remember before we had kids she was annoyed if I was at work late). So I need to find a job which has high pay but normal hours, so that means a FAANG or finance job most likely, so good luck to me.

Hearken back to those days and remember how to save money. I grew up poor and now make bank and I also don't look at grocery prices and spend like a drunken sailor. But I can (and sometimes do, just for the reminder) stop spending like that on a dime. It's time for you to stop. Stop looking down on YMCA camps. Stop spending 1500/month on food. Stop buying organic and planning three separate big vacations for a family of five. Stop arguing with everyone who points out that your spending cannot continue at this level.
Institute some freaking austerity measures.

You are not reading that it is DW who doesn't want to make the cuts. He is willing, just doesn't know how to get DW on board.

I've read the whole thread, including when everyone thought he was the DW. The position has always been that she doesn't want to move, but he's the one responding to comments. He's the one saying the camps were not "worthwhile" and the food is mostly organic and he doesn't have time to bargain shop for lawn equipment. He has not shown any willingness in direct responses, just a delayed "well how do I get her on board" after the board turned on him. Unless your position is that she's been ghostwriting his responses the whole time, you are the one not reading.

This made me smile because I actually think I recognize you from your responses. That said (a tell for me) I pointed out in one of my preceding responses that I think he feels he can't get a better job, and DW probably feels he isn't trying hard enough. He needs to try harder. And they both together need to come up with a plan for how to move forward in this new paradigm. I think the both need a reality check, and he is getting a healthy dose of that on all fronts here.

I agree they both need a reality check. I think she could probably get a better paying job than a 60% pay cut but is probably burned out and not really trying. I think he could probably get a better paying job but is content with his work/life balance and hasn't really *needed* one while she was making so much money. And I think they can live a very nice life in a suburb with decent public schools with the $250k HHI. They might have to settle for a beach house a few blocks from the beach, but worse things have happened to better people.

Hmm, so as soon as you realize I’m the DH, me getting a better job is suddenly the hot topic. It was discussed and dismissed once over 6 pages when you thought I was the DW. Now you see why I was gender neutral! But I have exhausted almost every avenue to get better jobs, called up colleagues and discussed salary and they just laugh when I say my goal is higher than $200k. My field just doesn’t support it, and switching to a new career at nearly 50 seems dicey. I’m going to try some side huddles but I will he surprised if I can whip up a $100k business working in my evenings after kids are asleep.

I’m sorry I seem pessimistic, but seriously I’ve had so many offers that then sour when I realize how they are low balling me or whatever. Maybe it is me, but I started out confident that it should be easy to beat my contractor role but disappointment has worn me down

No, I suggested many pages ago that she (then a presumptive "he") could do better than a 60% pay cut. And then at least 2 other people did as well, and you never responded to that line of inquiry. On this page, you brought up that you get "dozens" of job offers and that you grew up poor - both statements pointing toward you being worth more than you're making and just not seeing the path toward realizing that money. I'm saying both you and your wife could make more money. $150k plus a W/L balance you're happy with is a great deal, it's why so many people go gov't and stay there. That's not a dig, it's reality. People get comfortable where they are, unless they get ground down by where they are. Your relationship shows both sides. Your DW could make more money but is over it and not trying. You could make more money but don't see why you should need to. But both of you built your finances around her continuing to be highly compensated, so you can either change your lives or find ways to try to keep that HHI.

But here's the thing - you could also NOT make more money. You can live a very good life on $250k just not in your current house and not without knowing what a (non-organic) gallon of milk costs.

Just to point out, again, the emphasis was on the presumed DH to not take the pay cut.

I didn’t respond because I don’t manage my DW career; she says her options are limited and I trust her.

As for the pushback on the spending, we are flying to see her family, that is non negotiable. According to her, travel is vital for the kids and honestly some of the happier times (part of why I want to move is we are not really happy “here”, it’s a poor fit in my opinion, as we are still DCUM poor for the neighborhood). The healthy food is an investment in kids future. I am the hardware and clothing shopper, and yes I tend to buy from Home Depot over freecycle because I have dealt with so much crap that I then had to dispose of. “Nothing more expensive than being cheap”. I mean we rarely buy off Amazon or anything, it’s just we lived in apartment before so have a lot of house stuff we need and not many generous neighbors I’m afraid.

I would love guidance on how to boost my salary. I’ve posted before about and the universal conclusion was to stay in my job as I’m too old to re-invent reliably. I’m not afraid of long hours or travel, it just doesn’t work as long as DW ALSO has long hours, so handling the handoff is tricky. I need to get a job paying more at same time I start working/traveling longer, it can’t be a “put in 4 dues earning years and you can get a promotion” scenario.