Virginia explores plan to end advanced diplomas: 'Equitably serving the needs...of all of Virginia l

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like rather than ending the advanced diploma, they are ending the standard diploma. Why are they framing it this way?

Now there will be only one diploma. Before, the 'advanced' designation indicated you were completing requirements above and beyond what you needed for the minimum. Now, they're raising the minimum, but there will be no additional tier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the advanced diploma is so meaningless compared to the standard diploma, why is Virginia getting rid of it?

Why do they consider it a problem that not enough non Asian minorities are getting the advanced diploma.

The DCUM consensus is that the advanced diploma doesn’t matter.

It's a problem that so many Black and Hispanic students seem to be getting directed into a weak course selection. So now they will be required to stick with core classes for all four years. It doesn't take anything away from the kids currently pursuing the advanced diploma. This is what *actually* raising the bar looks like.

Some people prioritize education and others simply don't. There is only so much a school system can and should do.

The idea as I see it, from a social justice perspective, goes like this:
-Racial minorities (Black, Latino) are more likely to be lower SES, more likely to have parents who didn't go to college, less likely to have generational wealth. They're missing out on advantages their peers have.
-Right now, we have a standard diploma, which, if you get it, doesn't position you to be ready for college. Those kids whose parents went to college, and expect their kids to go to college, will push them to get the advanced diploma, knowing they need this for college. But our lower SES students may not have a knowledgeable parent to tell them that's what they should be doing, and HS counselors may, due to unconscious bias, expect less from these students (therefore not highly stress to these students they need to be making choices to set themselves up for college.)
-We can raise the requirements for the diploma to a point where students will all be better positioned for college; that way there isn't as much of disadvantage for kids whose parents don't know that the kids really should be doing extra. And it doesn't hurt the higher SES or higher achieving students to raise the floor on the requirements.
-Hopefully, more racial minority kids will be prepared to go to college, which we hope results in more of them going, which we hope results in better jobs for those kids, and the ability to start building generational wealth for them and their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some kids can barely eke out a standard diploma. Will this make it harder for them?

Yes. But hopefully, for the kids who *can* do this (but currently choose not to) it will make them better qualified as graduates. I'm guessing (hoping) that there are more of them than there are kids who are in the situation where they will now be unable to attain the diploma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember that a lot of students use the AP classes to defray the cost of college. You limit the number of APs and you can be adding thousands of dollars of costs to college.

This has nothing to do with limiting the # of APs students can take. The change is to make students who aren't taking core classes all 4 years at least meet that standard.

Except it limits students by holding them back. It calls for detracking and heterogenous classrooms. Without advanced math starting in elementary school and middle school, students will be able to take fewer AP math and science classes.

Currently, a student in advanced math may take Algebra 1 in 6th-7th for the advanced kids, with geometry in 7th or 8th, and Algebra 2 in 8th or 9th. These kids are in calculus their sophomore or junior year, multivariable calculus in 11th or 12th. Advanced science classes may track along with those math classes. And as students free up space, they may have room for other options.

So it may be an unintended consequence, but it most certainly does limit options as it has been described.

Their page talks in abstract terms without making the updates easy to understand in practical terms. I would love to see them answer a few questions in concrete terms.

You are on the wrong thread. You are talking about math changes. This is about the replacement of the Advanced and Standard diplomas with just one set of requirements for a diploma in VA.

Perhaps you should go back to the beginning and read the article. From the article: Sale also said during Tuesday's meeting that the diploma consolidation effort would include plans to implement the Virginia Math Pathways Initiative (VMPI), which aims to redefine "mathematics pathways" for Virginia K-12 students "to address the knowledge, skills, experiences and attributes that students must attain to be successful in college and/or the workforce and to be 'life ready.'"

Right, but the VMPI has recently walked back the part of their initiative that had to do with detracking/no acceleration/advancement. So if that sticks, then VMPI will basically just be the extra electives in 11-12th and the reordering of the curriculum in algebra/algebra2/geometry

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember that a lot of students use the AP classes to defray the cost of college. You limit the number of APs and you can be adding thousands of dollars of costs to college.

This has nothing to do with limiting the # of APs students can take. The change is to make students who aren't taking core classes all 4 years at least meet that standard.

Except it limits students by holding them back. It calls for detracking and heterogenous classrooms. Without advanced math starting in elementary school and middle school, students will be able to take fewer AP math and science classes.

Currently, a student in advanced math may take Algebra 1 in 6th-7th for the advanced kids, with geometry in 7th or 8th, and Algebra 2 in 8th or 9th. These kids are in calculus their sophomore or junior year, multivariable calculus in 11th or 12th. Advanced science classes may track along with those math classes. And as students free up space, they may have room for other options.

So it may be an unintended consequence, but it most certainly does limit options as it has been described.

Their page talks in abstract terms without making the updates easy to understand in practical terms. I would love to see them answer a few questions in concrete terms.

You are on the wrong thread. You are talking about math changes. This is about the replacement of the Advanced and Standard diplomas with just one set of requirements for a diploma in VA.

Perhaps you should go back to the beginning and read the article. From the article: Sale also said during Tuesday's meeting that the diploma consolidation effort would include plans to implement the Virginia Math Pathways Initiative (VMPI), which aims to redefine "mathematics pathways" for Virginia K-12 students "to address the knowledge, skills, experiences and attributes that students must attain to be successful in college and/or the workforce and to be 'life ready.'"

Right, but the VMPI has recently walked back the part of their initiative that had to do with detracking/no acceleration/advancement. So if that sticks, then VMPI will basically just be the extra electives in 11-12th and the reordering of the curriculum in algebra/algebra2/geometry

It would be incredibly naïve to really believe that they are truly “walking back” regarding heterogeneous teaching between k-10, the unclear pathways to advanced classes, and the lack of advanced classes until grade 11. They got caught with some media and are saying what they need to say for the media to die down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The advanced diploma is literally meaningless outside of Virginia. It's not like a HS degree is fundamentally changing as a result.

The outrage is born of both ignorance and a persecution complex.

I ask you, when was the last time someone inquired about your HS diploma?

It’s not about the diploma, it’s about making sure students take the classes they need to give them a leg up when applying to colleges. Pretending that none of that matters won’t fool most wealthy and educated Virginia parents, but kids without savvy parents are going to need good guidance from the schools themselves. I hope they get it, but most probably won’t.

That's the whole point of this change and why it's a good thing (I agree the math changes are mostly crap). Schools will HAVE TO require students to take the classes they need instead of saying oh it's just fine if you opt out of math or science in senior year.

My kid opted out of science senior year, after honors bio, Chem and physics. But AP,Calc. Took one foreign language through AP and three years of a second foreign language and summer immersion in a third foreign language. Plus 4 years of orchestra. Applied to SLACs for IR. Not having a 4th science, which would have been oceanography or AP Environmental Science didn’t hurt her at all. If anything, the feedback we got was that it was nice to see her doubling down on areas of strength.

She’ll only get the standard diploma. And she’ll be fine with that.

[Anonymous]

I’m all for having only one type of diploma. My DS, who has ADHD and ASD, has wanted the advanced diploma. He’s taking mostly honors classes and is in the 2nd year of a foreign language but is having a hard time with it. The advanced diploma requires 3 years of one language or 2 years of 2 different languages. The language requirement may end up preventing him from receiving the advanced diploma, although he also takes AP classes in other subjects.

Also, the advanced diploma effectively puts more value on a foreign language than other subjects like business or computer technology classes. The current advanced diploma requirements are outdated.

Since everyone now has access to Google translate on their phones, knowing how to speak a foreign language is less important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the advanced diploma is so meaningless compared to the standard diploma, why is Virginia getting rid of it?

Why do they consider it a problem that not enough non Asian minorities are getting the advanced diploma.

The DCUM consensus is that the advanced diploma doesn’t matter.

It's a problem that so many Black and Hispanic students seem to be getting directed into a weak course selection. So now they will be required to stick with core classes for all four years. It doesn't take anything away from the kids currently pursuing the advanced diploma. This is what *actually* raising the bar looks like.

Some people prioritize education and others simply don't. There is only so much a school system can and should do.

The idea as I see it, from a social justice perspective, goes like this:
-Racial minorities (Black, Latino) are more likely to be lower SES, more likely to have parents who didn't go to college, less likely to have generational wealth. They're missing out on advantages their peers have.
-Right now, we have a standard diploma, which, if you get it, doesn't position you to be ready for college. Those kids whose parents went to college, and expect their kids to go to college, will push them to get the advanced diploma, knowing they need this for college. But our lower SES students may not have a knowledgeable parent to tell them that's what they should be doing, and HS counselors may, due to unconscious bias, expect less from these students (therefore not highly stress to these students they need to be making choices to set themselves up for college.)
-We can raise the requirements for the diploma to a point where students will all be better positioned for college; that way there isn't as much of disadvantage for kids whose parents don't know that the kids really should be doing extra. And it doesn't hurt the higher SES or higher achieving students to raise the floor on the requirements.
-Hopefully, more racial minority kids will be prepared to go to college, which we hope results in more of them going, which we hope results in better jobs for those kids, and the ability to start building generational wealth for them and their children.

This is absolutely UNTRUE. A standard diploma is perfectly fine for college. There is really little difference in the requirements for a standard and an advanced diploma. An extra year of foreign language, an additional math, maybe something else. Colleges don't care which you have - if they even know. Not all places have two different diplomas, just one standard one.

Colleges look at the courseload the applicant took. They may weight the student who took more foreign language and more math higher; but they're going to do that anyway. They look at the rigor of the classes the student took and whether they took the most challenging courses their high school offered. But a "standard" diploma absolutely is sufficient for college acceptance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for having only one type of diploma. My DS, who has ADHD and ASD, has wanted the advanced diploma. He’s taking mostly honors classes and is in the 2nd year of a foreign language but is having a hard time with it. The advanced diploma requires 3 years of one language or 2 years of 2 different languages. The language requirement may end up preventing him from receiving the advanced diploma, although he also takes AP classes in other subjects.

Also, the advanced diploma effectively puts more value on a foreign language than other subjects like business or computer technology classes. The current advanced diploma requirements are outdated.

Since everyone now has access to Google translate on their phones, knowing how to speak a foreign language is less important.

I agree with you except for your last statement. Learning a language is an intellectual process and challenge. And it's always better to be able to understand and speak the language than to rely on Google translations which are not all that great. I'm not one who believes you must be bilingual; but learning languages has intellectual/academic and other benefits and advantages.

But I absolutely agree about the differentiation between diplomas. An IB diploma needs to be separate. Other than that, a standardized diploma is all that's necessary. OFfering an advanced option is merely for the parents. One of my kids failed to get the advanced diploma precisely because of the language requirement. Only two years. Took the 3rd year; but failed miserably and had no desire to re-take or to take two more years of a new language. There were other classes of greater interest and that were more useful for my child's skills and interests and post-graduation path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The advanced diploma is literally meaningless outside of Virginia. It's not like a HS degree is fundamentally changing as a result.

The outrage is born of both ignorance and a persecution complex.

I ask you, when was the last time someone inquired about your HS diploma?

It’s not about the diploma, it’s about making sure students take the classes they need to give them a leg up when applying to colleges. Pretending that none of that matters won’t fool most wealthy and educated Virginia parents, but kids without savvy parents are going to need good guidance from the schools themselves. I hope they get it, but most probably won’t.

That's the whole point of this change and why it's a good thing (I agree the math changes are mostly crap). Schools will HAVE TO require students to take the classes they need instead of saying oh it's just fine if you opt out of math or science in senior year.

My kid opted out of science senior year, after honors bio, Chem and physics. But AP,Calc. Took one foreign language through AP and three years of a second foreign language and summer immersion in a third foreign language. Plus 4 years of orchestra. Applied to SLACs for IR. Not having a 4th science, which would have been oceanography or AP Environmental Science didn’t hurt her at all. If anything, the feedback we got was that it was nice to see her doubling down on areas of strength.

She’ll only get the standard diploma. And she’ll be fine with that.

[phone] Good for her!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for having only one type of diploma. My DS, who has ADHD and ASD, has wanted the advanced diploma. He’s taking mostly honors classes and is in the 2nd year of a foreign language but is having a hard time with it. The advanced diploma requires 3 years of one language or 2 years of 2 different languages. The language requirement may end up preventing him from receiving the advanced diploma, although he also takes AP classes in other subjects.

Also, the advanced diploma effectively puts more value on a foreign language than other subjects like business or computer technology classes. The current advanced diploma requirements are outdated.

Since everyone now has access to Google translate on their phones, knowing how to speak a foreign language is less important.

World languages instruction is about so much more than just the words. It's also about the culture, the geography, the history, the government, the economy, the educational systems, etc. of the places where different languages are spoken, in addition to the connections in the brain that WL learning provides (it's been suggested that it's similar to math and music instruction). It's not just learning what to say, but how to say it, what non-verbal communication to use, and an understanding of cultures as a whole. At its core, it's about understanding others, really (both in language and culture).

-WL teacher of 23 years

[Anonymous]

California just dumbed education down a bit more. All without people realizing what’s coming to this country within 10 years.

They now say in the name of equity (Big lol here) now high level math is not attainable for the smarter kids because….. wait for it….. it is system racism and some people’s feelings might get hurt.


GO WOKE!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:California just dumbed education down a bit more. All without people realizing what’s coming to this country within 10 years.

They now say in the name of equity (Big lol here) now high level math is not attainable for the smarter kids because….. wait for it….. it is system racism and some people’s feelings might get hurt.


GO WOKE!!!!

LMFAO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:California just dumbed education down a bit more. All without people realizing what’s coming to this country within 10 years.

They now say in the name of equity (Big lol here) now high level math is not attainable for the smarter kids because….. wait for it….. it is system racism and some people’s feelings might get hurt.


GO WOKE!!!!

Are you using Google translate to write your posts on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:California just dumbed education down a bit more. All without people realizing what’s coming to this country within 10 years.

They now say in the name of equity (Big lol here) now high level math is not attainable for the smarter kids because….. wait for it….. it is system racism and some people’s feelings might get hurt.


GO WOKE!!!!

Are you using Google translate to write your posts on DCUM?

Whatever he/she/it/mix/they is using it’s working because they can see thru all the boosh1t