Virginia explores plan to end advanced diplomas: 'Equitably serving the needs...of all of Virginia l

[Anonymous]

The advanced diploma is literally meaningless outside of Virginia. It's not like a HS degree is fundamentally changing as a result.

The outrage is born of both ignorance and a persecution complex.

I ask you, when was the last time someone inquired about your HS diploma?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember that a lot of students use the AP classes to defray the cost of college. You limit the number of APs and you can be adding thousands of dollars of costs to college.

This has nothing to do with limiting the # of APs students can take. The change is to make students who aren't taking core classes all 4 years at least meet that standard.

Except it limits students by holding them back. It calls for detracking and heterogenous classrooms. Without advanced math starting in elementary school and middle school, students will be able to take fewer AP math and science classes.

Currently, a student in advanced math may take Algebra 1 in 6th-7th for the advanced kids, with geometry in 7th or 8th, and Algebra 2 in 8th or 9th. These kids are in calculus their sophomore or junior year, multivariable calculus in 11th or 12th. Advanced science classes may track along with those math classes. And as students free up space, they may have room for other options.

So it may be an unintended consequence, but it most certainly does limit options as it has been described.

Their page talks in abstract terms without making the updates easy to understand in practical terms. I would love to see them answer a few questions in concrete terms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what is the advanced diploma?

It is essentially the "college prep" diploma - requires 4 years of English, math, social studies, science, world language + 2 PE, 1 arts, Econ & Personal Finance, and 3 electives.

The standard diploma lets students avoid taking the core all 4 years. It includes 4 years English but only 3 for math, lab science, social studies. World language not required but can go toward 2 credits in world language or arts or CTE. +2 PE and 1 Econ-Pers Fi.

The proposal is to require the 4 years English, math, science, social studies for everyone. + 4 credits in some mix of world language, arts, CTE. + 2 PE and 3 electives. Doesn't list econ and personal finance at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember that a lot of students use the AP classes to defray the cost of college. You limit the number of APs and you can be adding thousands of dollars of costs to college.

This has nothing to do with limiting the # of APs students can take. The change is to make students who aren't taking core classes all 4 years at least meet that standard.

Except it limits students by holding them back. It calls for detracking and heterogenous classrooms. Without advanced math starting in elementary school and middle school, students will be able to take fewer AP math and science classes.

Currently, a student in advanced math may take Algebra 1 in 6th-7th for the advanced kids, with geometry in 7th or 8th, and Algebra 2 in 8th or 9th. These kids are in calculus their sophomore or junior year, multivariable calculus in 11th or 12th. Advanced science classes may track along with those math classes. And as students free up space, they may have room for other options.

So it may be an unintended consequence, but it most certainly does limit options as it has been described.

Their page talks in abstract terms without making the updates easy to understand in practical terms. I would love to see them answer a few questions in concrete terms.

You are on the wrong thread. You are talking about math changes. This is about the replacement of the Advanced and Standard diplomas with just one set of requirements for a diploma in VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember that a lot of students use the AP classes to defray the cost of college. You limit the number of APs and you can be adding thousands of dollars of costs to college.

This has nothing to do with limiting the # of APs students can take. The change is to make students who aren't taking core classes all 4 years at least meet that standard.

Except it limits students by holding them back. It calls for detracking and heterogenous classrooms. Without advanced math starting in elementary school and middle school, students will be able to take fewer AP math and science classes.

Currently, a student in advanced math may take Algebra 1 in 6th-7th for the advanced kids, with geometry in 7th or 8th, and Algebra 2 in 8th or 9th. These kids are in calculus their sophomore or junior year, multivariable calculus in 11th or 12th. Advanced science classes may track along with those math classes. And as students free up space, they may have room for other options.

So it may be an unintended consequence, but it most certainly does limit options as it has been described.

Their page talks in abstract terms without making the updates easy to understand in practical terms. I would love to see them answer a few questions in concrete terms.

You are on the wrong thread. You are talking about math changes. This is about the replacement of the Advanced and Standard diplomas with just one set of requirements for a diploma in VA.

Perhaps you should go back to the beginning and read the article. From the article: Sale also said during Tuesday's meeting that the diploma consolidation effort would include plans to implement the Virginia Math Pathways Initiative (VMPI), which aims to redefine "mathematics pathways" for Virginia K-12 students "to address the knowledge, skills, experiences and attributes that students must attain to be successful in college and/or the workforce and to be 'life ready.'"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The advanced diploma is literally meaningless outside of Virginia. It's not like a HS degree is fundamentally changing as a result.

The outrage is born of both ignorance and a persecution complex.

I ask you, when was the last time someone inquired about your HS diploma?

It’s not about the diploma, it’s about making sure students take the classes they need to give them a leg up when applying to colleges. Pretending that none of that matters won’t fool most wealthy and educated Virginia parents, but kids without savvy parents are going to need good guidance from the schools themselves. I hope they get it, but most probably won’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Perhaps you should go back to the beginning and read the article. From the article: Sale also said during Tuesday's meeting that the diploma consolidation effort would include plans to implement the Virginia Math Pathways Initiative (VMPI), which aims to redefine "mathematics pathways" for Virginia K-12 students "to address the knowledge, skills, experiences and attributes that students must attain to be successful in college and/or the workforce and to be 'life ready.'"

Yes, but the thing most of us want to focus on is that the end of two tiers of diplomas makes no difference to which classes students take or how well they will be prepared for college.

I care a lot about math pathways and not at all about advanced vs standard diplomas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The advanced diploma is literally meaningless outside of Virginia. It's not like a HS degree is fundamentally changing as a result.

The outrage is born of both ignorance and a persecution complex.

I ask you, when was the last time someone inquired about your HS diploma?

It’s not about the diploma, it’s about making sure students take the classes they need to give them a leg up when applying to colleges. Pretending that none of that matters won’t fool most wealthy and educated Virginia parents, but kids without savvy parents are going to need good guidance from the schools themselves. I hope they get it, but most probably won’t.

That's the whole point of this change and why it's a good thing (I agree the math changes are mostly crap). Schools will HAVE TO require students to take the classes they need instead of saying oh it's just fine if you opt out of math or science in senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid’s counselor explained the AD path as a blueprint to make sure that students are taking the right classes to be competitive in college admissions. A standard diploma with good grades plus wisely chosen electives that don’t exactly fit that blueprint can achieve the same thing, but many families aren’t going to have the wherewithal to research how to best make elective choices that position their kids well to achieve their college goals.

It’s going to suck when some kids get to senior year and realize that they aren’t competitive at their college of choice because they just signed up for whatever electives appealed to them the past four years. I can already hear the outrage over not receiving better guidance.

I guess it’s up to the guidance counselors now to double and triple their workload in course selection season to make sure kids understand the ramifications of their choices.

This is what the guidance counselors are for. Students discuss their "pathways" and course options with their counselors and submit their selections. It's already part of the course sign-up process. And they do it every year beginning in middle school; so the pathways should hardly be a surprise.

[Anonymous]

In 2019, I did some historical research on property l own in Fauquier County. Lee and the Confederate troops camped on this property on the way to the Second Battle of Manassas. I did not grow up in VA and did not know about how Lee surprised the Union Army. I won’t go into the details here, but I came away with an appreciation for his military strategy even if I don’t agree with the ideals of the Confederacy. Granted, a 4th grader wouldn’t fully comprehend this distinction.

I was also surprised to learn about the extent to which Lee and other Confederate leaders assimilated into society after the Civil War. I never would have guessed that.

I’m not in favor of Confederate statues, naming buildings after Confederates, etc. Just thought I would share what I learned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In 2019, I did some historical research on property l own in Fauquier County. Lee and the Confederate troops camped on this property on the way to the Second Battle of Manassas. I did not grow up in VA and did not know about how Lee surprised the Union Army. I won’t go into the details here, but I came away with an appreciation for his military strategy even if I don’t agree with the ideals of the Confederacy. Granted, a 4th grader wouldn’t fully comprehend this distinction.

I was also surprised to learn about the extent to which Lee and other Confederate leaders assimilated into society after the Civil War. I never would have guessed that.

I’m not in favor of Confederate statues, naming buildings after Confederates, etc. Just thought I would share what I learned.

Sorry. Wrong thread. Doing this on my phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A discussion of the proposal vs. the current standard/advanced diplomas is in this video, starting at about 1:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVpvdfY9L9w&t=3034s

Looks like they are also considering dropping the Econ/Personal Finance class? It isn't discussed at all but is not listed on the "consolidated diploma". I think the EPF is a good requirement.

Can they drop the PE requirement while they’re at it?

[Anonymous]

If the advanced diploma is so meaningless compared to the standard diploma, why is Virginia getting rid of it?

Why do they consider it a problem that not enough non Asian minorities are getting the advanced diploma.

The DCUM consensus is that the advanced diploma doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember that a lot of students use the AP classes to defray the cost of college. You limit the number of APs and you can be adding thousands of dollars of costs to college.

At this rate AP classes aren’t long for this world. State, at least.

They will absolutely be gone soon as well as honors and gifted programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember that a lot of students use the AP classes to defray the cost of college. You limit the number of APs and you can be adding thousands of dollars of costs to college.

At this rate AP classes aren’t long for this world. State, at least.

Mostly because the College Board is struggling financially.