2nd grade teacher who placed lots of students in AAP. AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I have not responded because most of the recent posters have no idea what they aretalking about. There were very few minorities (AA or Latinx) in my classes. The only AA student I had in my last three years did get into AAP and I strongly supported that child. Most of my Asian kids did get into AAP and if they had demonstrated gifted behaviors I supported them. The twi instances of kids with high CoGATS and low GBRs were both upper middle class whites. I myself am not originally from the U.S. and have no inherent biases. I solely looked for kids who evidenced gifted behaviors or appeared as if they would be successful in AAP. GBRs are based on observed behaviors. Students who do nothing in class (orally or on paper), get mostly 4s and have high standardized test scores do not demonstrate gifted behaviors and were given low GBRs by me. Interestingly, almost all of the students I had that made AAP with high test scores and low GBRs had a hard time in AAP. I followed up on my students through sixth grade to see how they were doing. Many of the high test score kids who I had given low GBRs to because they never demonstrated evidence of giftedness did poorly and demonstrated nothing to their later teachers that showed they belonged in AAP. a few did but those that didn’t were generallynot motivated. They may have been very intelligent based on test scores but they never demonstrated anything to merit AAP. Less intelligent (based on scores) kids who were motivated and worked hard did much better through 6th grade..

This teacher’s admission is exactly what I worried about With respect to my shy kid being turned down for AAP. He’s far and away more able and qualified than his older sister who is in AAP and does great. But he’s very quiet and scared to participate in school. He was clearly denied AAP due to GBRS (test scores and grades were high). He was speared from all the other kids he’s made friendships with and we know he’s be best served and fit in best in AAP. It really annoys me that teachers who may not really understand your kid have all this power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A shy kid should be able to demonstrate their knowledge on paper. DS GBRS actually called out that he was on grade level for writing but gave verbal answers that were advanced. The Teachers notice these things. Even with that, DS's work samples showed the sentences he wrote to explain how he approached answering the logic puzzle he was given. He was not the kid to raise his hands but would answer questions when called on, he has greatly improved in this area.

I would suspect that kids with high test scores and 4s but low GBRS had lower effort scores as well. That is something parents should be cueing on. If your kid is coming home with 2's on their efforts scores but good grades, something is happening and you should be talking to the Teacher. Find out what they are seeing and then work with your child to address that. It is no different then seeing a 2 in an academic subject and asking the Teacher what is going on and working to correct those issues.

I get that you don't like it but this is not the first time people have posted things all these lines.

NP here : I actually agree with you that a shy kid should be able to demonstrate their knowledge on paper... every year but this year. This year, my second grader has had almost zero written assignments turned in, and none before the January AAP deadline. So the only kids in her class that would have gotten decent GBRS, in my opinion, are the loud, assertive, confident children who speak up constantly online. This year has definitely disadvantaged introverted children in the APP ID process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A shy kid should be able to demonstrate their knowledge on paper. DS GBRS actually called out that he was on grade level for writing but gave verbal answers that were advanced. The Teachers notice these things. Even with that, DS's work samples showed the sentences he wrote to explain how he approached answering the logic puzzle he was given. He was not the kid to raise his hands but would answer questions when called on, he has greatly improved in this area.

I would suspect that kids with high test scores and 4s but low GBRS had lower effort scores as well. That is something parents should be cueing on. If your kid is coming home with 2's on their efforts scores but good grades, something is happening and you should be talking to the Teacher. Find out what they are seeing and then work with your child to address that. It is no different then seeing a 2 in an academic subject and asking the Teacher what is going on and working to correct those issues.

I get that you don't like it but this is not the first time people have posted things all these lines.

NP here : I actually agree with you that a shy kid should be able to demonstrate their knowledge on paper... every year but this year. This year, my second grader has had almost zero written assignments turned in, and none before the January AAP deadline. So the only kids in her class that would have gotten decent GBRS, in my opinion, are the loud, assertive, confident children who speak up constantly online. This year has definitely disadvantaged introverted children in the APP ID process.

If your teacher did any small groups, she would know about your child’s abilities fairly well. I hate to break it to you, but at that age it’s pretty obvious who has it and who doesn’t. Especially in a small reading group or small math group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A shy kid should be able to demonstrate their knowledge on paper. DS GBRS actually called out that he was on grade level for writing but gave verbal answers that were advanced. The Teachers notice these things. Even with that, DS's work samples showed the sentences he wrote to explain how he approached answering the logic puzzle he was given. He was not the kid to raise his hands but would answer questions when called on, he has greatly improved in this area.

I would suspect that kids with high test scores and 4s but low GBRS had lower effort scores as well. That is something parents should be cueing on. If your kid is coming home with 2's on their efforts scores but good grades, something is happening and you should be talking to the Teacher. Find out what they are seeing and then work with your child to address that. It is no different then seeing a 2 in an academic subject and asking the Teacher what is going on and working to correct those issues.

I get that you don't like it but this is not the first time people have posted things all these lines.

NP here : I actually agree with you that a shy kid should be able to demonstrate their knowledge on paper... every year but this year. This year, my second grader has had almost zero written assignments turned in, and none before the January AAP deadline. So the only kids in her class that would have gotten decent GBRS, in my opinion, are the loud, assertive, confident children who speak up constantly online. This year has definitely disadvantaged introverted children in the APP ID process.

If your teacher did any small groups, she would know about your child’s abilities fairly well. I hate to break it to you, but at that age it’s pretty obvious who has it and who doesn’t. Especially in a small reading group or small math group.

I hope you're right! But we have small reading groups once a week, and never have small math groups. And the reading groups are basically each kid reading a paragraph of what appears to be a kindergarten-level book and then answering 1-2 super easy questions. I don't know how that makes it obvious who belongs in AAP and who doesn't...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the flaw with GBRS. It's entirely possible for a child who is gifted but completely disengaged to get a very low GBRS. Since GBRS is now the end all and be all, those kids won't get into AAP, despite being the kids who need gifted programming the most.

The high achieving, high GBRS kids will bloom wherever they're planted. The unengaged gifted kids are the ones who are demonstrating that their needs can't be met in gen ed.

Anything's possible. But it sounds like OP was doing the GBRS wrong, which is probably more common and more problematic.

No. It sounds like the OP was not doing the GBRS the way you wanted them done and your child wasn't accepted into AAP.

DP. Please don't be petty. Those of us who are questioning OP isn't because of sour grapes. Two my kids got 16 and 4COs in their GBRS (and they both had extremely high scores). OP's GBRS assessment seems to be flawed in identifying gifted kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the flaw with GBRS. It's entirely possible for a child who is gifted but completely disengaged to get a very low GBRS. Since GBRS is now the end all and be all, those kids won't get into AAP, despite being the kids who need gifted programming the most.

The high achieving, high GBRS kids will bloom wherever they're planted. The unengaged gifted kids are the ones who are demonstrating that their needs can't be met in gen ed.

Anything's possible. But it sounds like OP was doing the GBRS wrong, which is probably more common and more problematic.

No. It sounds like the OP was not doing the GBRS the way you wanted them done and your child wasn't accepted into AAP.

DP. Please don't be petty. Those of us who are questioning OP isn't because of sour grapes. Two my kids got 16 and 4COs in their GBRS (and they both had extremely high scores). OP's GBRS assessment seems to be flawed in identifying gifted kids.

To you, but it doesn't. This has nothing to do with shyness and everything to do with kids not demonstrating important parts of the criteria. OP specifically said that the kids she gave poor GBRS to who had high test scores did not demonstrate knowledge of the material in their written or verbal work. We don't have specific examples but I know from look at my sons work that he has math sheets with the answers and a few sentence explanation of how he got that answer. He has work sheets were he drew visual representations of his answers. The kids the OP mentioned probably did not have those things.

It sounds to me like you all are arguing that the fact that the kid got the correct answer is all that matters. What OP is seems to be saying is that is not all that matters. The kids have to be able to show that they understand the concept.These kids did not. You can come up with whatever explanations that you want but the kids are not showing that they understand the fundamental principles of what they are learning. This has nothing to do with being shy or introverted, because they can write these things out as well. Either the kids decided they didn't need to follow the directions on the multitude of assignments, like every math sheet I saw in first and second had some section of drawing a picture or writing sentences to explain your answer, or they couldn't. Neither is acceptable.

Test scores are not king. Just because a kid is gifted doesn't mean they belong in AAP. Gifted kids who are learning the material, can explain the material, and are ahead belong in AAP. A Gifted kid who is not able to explain the material may not understand the fundamentals and does not belong in AAP. There is no guarantee that a kid who will not write out their explanation in Gen Ed will suddenly do what they are asked to do in AAP.

I earned a PhD. I lost track of the number of ridiculous hoops that you have to jump through and changes and adjustments you have to make while in Grad School. I had a choice, I could do what my Committee told me or encouraged me or I could not earn my Doctorate. I was an adult so I understood my options. A large number of people drop out of PhD programs because of the hoops, the vast majority are plenty smart and capable of completing the work, but the steps seem endless. The kids we are talking about are in first and second grade. They don't understand the implications of not jumping through the hoops but their parents do and should be checking to make sure that their kids are doing the work as instructed. If a kid says "But I just get that 2+2 is 4, why do I have to draw the picture of 2 cats and 2 cats making 4 cats?" The answer is "Because drawing the picture helps your Teacher know that you know the answer and why that is the answer." Not, "I know it is easy and you don't have to do it." Or "I know, it is boring and ridiculous" or whatever other message you are sending that allows your kid to think that no writing out an answer is ok. And yes, there are parents on this forum who argue why kids shouldn't have to show their work or that their kid is too bored to do the assigned work.

The GBRS criteria are out there, the idea that people try to argue that all that matters are the test scores and grades is silly. The OP has made it clear what we already know, the kids need to demonstrate that they understand the principles of the material. They can do that verbally or in writing. If they don't, then they are not meeting one part of the criteria. Asking Teachers to extrapolate that correct answers on exams while not showing their work in the way the Teachers are asking is not the write answer.

[Anonymous]

^ I don't necessarily disagree with you.

My stance is that a kid cannot study or prep enough to get a 145 CogAT without also being gifted. VA has a mandate that gifted kids are to be given gifted services, and FCPS specifically uses AAP to meet that mandate. Also, kids who are gifted but underperforming in the classroom are the ones who need gifted programming the most. VA does not have a mandate that above average high achievers are to be given gifted programming, yet AAP is mostly filled with those kids.

I agree that AAP would not be a good fit for the gifted underachievers. FCPS does not have a program that is suitable for kids who are gifted but for whatever reason are not performing in the classroom.

I'm also a bit worried that gifted level scores and poor performance in the classroom could indicate undiagnosed ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the flaw with GBRS. It's entirely possible for a child who is gifted but completely disengaged to get a very low GBRS. Since GBRS is now the end all and be all, those kids won't get into AAP, despite being the kids who need gifted programming the most.

The high achieving, high GBRS kids will bloom wherever they're planted. The unengaged gifted kids are the ones who are demonstrating that their needs can't be met in gen ed.

Anything's possible. But it sounds like OP was doing the GBRS wrong, which is probably more common and more problematic.

No. It sounds like the OP was not doing the GBRS the way you wanted them done and your child wasn't accepted into AAP.

DP. Please don't be petty. Those of us who are questioning OP isn't because of sour grapes. Two my kids got 16 and 4COs in their GBRS (and they both had extremely high scores). OP's GBRS assessment seems to be flawed in identifying gifted kids.

To you, but it doesn't. This has nothing to do with shyness and everything to do with kids not demonstrating important parts of the criteria. OP specifically said that the kids she gave poor GBRS to who had high test scores did not demonstrate knowledge of the material in their written or verbal work. We don't have specific examples but I know from look at my sons work that he has math sheets with the answers and a few sentence explanation of how he got that answer. He has work sheets were he drew visual representations of his answers. The kids the OP mentioned probably did not have those things.

It sounds to me like you all are arguing that the fact that the kid got the correct answer is all that matters. What OP is seems to be saying is that is not all that matters. The kids have to be able to show that they understand the concept.These kids did not. You can come up with whatever explanations that you want but the kids are not showing that they understand the fundamental principles of what they are learning. This has nothing to do with being shy or introverted, because they can write these things out as well. Either the kids decided they didn't need to follow the directions on the multitude of assignments, like every math sheet I saw in first and second had some section of drawing a picture or writing sentences to explain your answer, or they couldn't. Neither is acceptable.

Test scores are not king. Just because a kid is gifted doesn't mean they belong in AAP. Gifted kids who are learning the material, can explain the material, and are ahead belong in AAP. A Gifted kid who is not able to explain the material may not understand the fundamentals and does not belong in AAP. There is no guarantee that a kid who will not write out their explanation in Gen Ed will suddenly do what they are asked to do in AAP.

I earned a PhD. I lost track of the number of ridiculous hoops that you have to jump through and changes and adjustments you have to make while in Grad School. I had a choice, I could do what my Committee told me or encouraged me or I could not earn my Doctorate. I was an adult so I understood my options. A large number of people drop out of PhD programs because of the hoops, the vast majority are plenty smart and capable of completing the work, but the steps seem endless. The kids we are talking about are in first and second grade. They don't understand the implications of not jumping through the hoops but their parents do and should be checking to make sure that their kids are doing the work as instructed. If a kid says "But I just get that 2+2 is 4, why do I have to draw the picture of 2 cats and 2 cats making 4 cats?" The answer is "Because drawing the picture helps your Teacher know that you know the answer and why that is the answer." Not, "I know it is easy and you don't have to do it." Or "I know, it is boring and ridiculous" or whatever other message you are sending that allows your kid to think that no writing out an answer is ok. And yes, there are parents on this forum who argue why kids shouldn't have to show their work or that their kid is too bored to do the assigned work.

The GBRS criteria are out there, the idea that people try to argue that all that matters are the test scores and grades is silly. The OP has made it clear what we already know, the kids need to demonstrate that they understand the principles of the material. They can do that verbally or in writing. If they don't, then they are not meeting one part of the criteria. Asking Teachers to extrapolate that correct answers on exams while not showing their work in the way the Teachers are asking is not the write answer.

A kid doesn't get all 4s in 2nd grade without drawing 4 cats. You're being disingenuous with your long explanation that ignores that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the flaw with GBRS. It's entirely possible for a child who is gifted but completely disengaged to get a very low GBRS. Since GBRS is now the end all and be all, those kids won't get into AAP, despite being the kids who need gifted programming the most.

The high achieving, high GBRS kids will bloom wherever they're planted. The unengaged gifted kids are the ones who are demonstrating that their needs can't be met in gen ed.

Anything's possible. But it sounds like OP was doing the GBRS wrong, which is probably more common and more problematic.

No. It sounds like the OP was not doing the GBRS the way you wanted them done and your child wasn't accepted into AAP.

DP. Please don't be petty. Those of us who are questioning OP isn't because of sour grapes. Two my kids got 16 and 4COs in their GBRS (and they both had extremely high scores). OP's GBRS assessment seems to be flawed in identifying gifted kids.

To you, but it doesn't. This has nothing to do with shyness and everything to do with kids not demonstrating important parts of the criteria. OP specifically said that the kids she gave poor GBRS to who had high test scores did not demonstrate knowledge of the material in their written or verbal work. We don't have specific examples but I know from look at my sons work that he has math sheets with the answers and a few sentence explanation of how he got that answer. He has work sheets were he drew visual representations of his answers. The kids the OP mentioned probably did not have those things.

It sounds to me like you all are arguing that the fact that the kid got the correct answer is all that matters. What OP is seems to be saying is that is not all that matters. The kids have to be able to show that they understand the concept.These kids did not. You can come up with whatever explanations that you want but the kids are not showing that they understand the fundamental principles of what they are learning. This has nothing to do with being shy or introverted, because they can write these things out as well. Either the kids decided they didn't need to follow the directions on the multitude of assignments, like every math sheet I saw in first and second had some section of drawing a picture or writing sentences to explain your answer, or they couldn't. Neither is acceptable.

Test scores are not king. Just because a kid is gifted doesn't mean they belong in AAP. Gifted kids who are learning the material, can explain the material, and are ahead belong in AAP. A Gifted kid who is not able to explain the material may not understand the fundamentals and does not belong in AAP. There is no guarantee that a kid who will not write out their explanation in Gen Ed will suddenly do what they are asked to do in AAP.

I earned a PhD. I lost track of the number of ridiculous hoops that you have to jump through and changes and adjustments you have to make while in Grad School. I had a choice, I could do what my Committee told me or encouraged me or I could not earn my Doctorate. I was an adult so I understood my options. A large number of people drop out of PhD programs because of the hoops, the vast majority are plenty smart and capable of completing the work, but the steps seem endless. The kids we are talking about are in first and second grade. They don't understand the implications of not jumping through the hoops but their parents do and should be checking to make sure that their kids are doing the work as instructed. If a kid says "But I just get that 2+2 is 4, why do I have to draw the picture of 2 cats and 2 cats making 4 cats?" The answer is "Because drawing the picture helps your Teacher know that you know the answer and why that is the answer." Not, "I know it is easy and you don't have to do it." Or "I know, it is boring and ridiculous" or whatever other message you are sending that allows your kid to think that no writing out an answer is ok. And yes, there are parents on this forum who argue why kids shouldn't have to show their work or that their kid is too bored to do the assigned work.

The GBRS criteria are out there, the idea that people try to argue that all that matters are the test scores and grades is silly. The OP has made it clear what we already know, the kids need to demonstrate that they understand the principles of the material. They can do that verbally or in writing. If they don't, then they are not meeting one part of the criteria. Asking Teachers to extrapolate that correct answers on exams while not showing their work in the way the Teachers are asking is not the write answer.

A kid doesn't get all 4s in 2nd grade without drawing 4 cats. You're being disingenuous with your long explanation that ignores that.

Sorry, but 2nd grade is a joke. It is super easy to get 4s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the flaw with GBRS. It's entirely possible for a child who is gifted but completely disengaged to get a very low GBRS. Since GBRS is now the end all and be all, those kids won't get into AAP, despite being the kids who need gifted programming the most.

The high achieving, high GBRS kids will bloom wherever they're planted. The unengaged gifted kids are the ones who are demonstrating that their needs can't be met in gen ed.

Anything's possible. But it sounds like OP was doing the GBRS wrong, which is probably more common and more problematic.

No. It sounds like the OP was not doing the GBRS the way you wanted them done and your child wasn't accepted into AAP.

DP. Please don't be petty. Those of us who are questioning OP isn't because of sour grapes. Two my kids got 16 and 4COs in their GBRS (and they both had extremely high scores). OP's GBRS assessment seems to be flawed in identifying gifted kids.

To you, but it doesn't. This has nothing to do with shyness and everything to do with kids not demonstrating important parts of the criteria. OP specifically said that the kids she gave poor GBRS to who had high test scores did not demonstrate knowledge of the material in their written or verbal work. We don't have specific examples but I know from look at my sons work that he has math sheets with the answers and a few sentence explanation of how he got that answer. He has work sheets were he drew visual representations of his answers. The kids the OP mentioned probably did not have those things.

It sounds to me like you all are arguing that the fact that the kid got the correct answer is all that matters. What OP is seems to be saying is that is not all that matters. The kids have to be able to show that they understand the concept.These kids did not. You can come up with whatever explanations that you want but the kids are not showing that they understand the fundamental principles of what they are learning. This has nothing to do with being shy or introverted, because they can write these things out as well. Either the kids decided they didn't need to follow the directions on the multitude of assignments, like every math sheet I saw in first and second had some section of drawing a picture or writing sentences to explain your answer, or they couldn't. Neither is acceptable.

Test scores are not king. Just because a kid is gifted doesn't mean they belong in AAP. Gifted kids who are learning the material, can explain the material, and are ahead belong in AAP. A Gifted kid who is not able to explain the material may not understand the fundamentals and does not belong in AAP. There is no guarantee that a kid who will not write out their explanation in Gen Ed will suddenly do what they are asked to do in AAP.

I earned a PhD. I lost track of the number of ridiculous hoops that you have to jump through and changes and adjustments you have to make while in Grad School. I had a choice, I could do what my Committee told me or encouraged me or I could not earn my Doctorate. I was an adult so I understood my options. A large number of people drop out of PhD programs because of the hoops, the vast majority are plenty smart and capable of completing the work, but the steps seem endless. The kids we are talking about are in first and second grade. They don't understand the implications of not jumping through the hoops but their parents do and should be checking to make sure that their kids are doing the work as instructed. If a kid says "But I just get that 2+2 is 4, why do I have to draw the picture of 2 cats and 2 cats making 4 cats?" The answer is "Because drawing the picture helps your Teacher know that you know the answer and why that is the answer." Not, "I know it is easy and you don't have to do it." Or "I know, it is boring and ridiculous" or whatever other message you are sending that allows your kid to think that no writing out an answer is ok. And yes, there are parents on this forum who argue why kids shouldn't have to show their work or that their kid is too bored to do the assigned work.

The GBRS criteria are out there, the idea that people try to argue that all that matters are the test scores and grades is silly. The OP has made it clear what we already know, the kids need to demonstrate that they understand the principles of the material. They can do that verbally or in writing. If they don't, then they are not meeting one part of the criteria. Asking Teachers to extrapolate that correct answers on exams while not showing their work in the way the Teachers are asking is not the write answer.

A kid doesn't get all 4s in 2nd grade without drawing 4 cats. You're being disingenuous with your long explanation that ignores that.

DP. Exactly. Either OP's GBRS is flawed or her grading system is flawed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the flaw with GBRS. It's entirely possible for a child who is gifted but completely disengaged to get a very low GBRS. Since GBRS is now the end all and be all, those kids won't get into AAP, despite being the kids who need gifted programming the most.

The high achieving, high GBRS kids will bloom wherever they're planted. The unengaged gifted kids are the ones who are demonstrating that their needs can't be met in gen ed.

Anything's possible. But it sounds like OP was doing the GBRS wrong, which is probably more common and more problematic.

No. It sounds like the OP was not doing the GBRS the way you wanted them done and your child wasn't accepted into AAP.

DP. Please don't be petty. Those of us who are questioning OP isn't because of sour grapes. Two my kids got 16 and 4COs in their GBRS (and they both had extremely high scores). OP's GBRS assessment seems to be flawed in identifying gifted kids.

To you, but it doesn't. This has nothing to do with shyness and everything to do with kids not demonstrating important parts of the criteria. OP specifically said that the kids she gave poor GBRS to who had high test scores did not demonstrate knowledge of the material in their written or verbal work. We don't have specific examples but I know from look at my sons work that he has math sheets with the answers and a few sentence explanation of how he got that answer. He has work sheets were he drew visual representations of his answers. The kids the OP mentioned probably did not have those things.

It sounds to me like you all are arguing that the fact that the kid got the correct answer is all that matters. What OP is seems to be saying is that is not all that matters. The kids have to be able to show that they understand the concept.These kids did not. You can come up with whatever explanations that you want but the kids are not showing that they understand the fundamental principles of what they are learning. This has nothing to do with being shy or introverted, because they can write these things out as well. Either the kids decided they didn't need to follow the directions on the multitude of assignments, like every math sheet I saw in first and second had some section of drawing a picture or writing sentences to explain your answer, or they couldn't. Neither is acceptable.

Test scores are not king. Just because a kid is gifted doesn't mean they belong in AAP. Gifted kids who are learning the material, can explain the material, and are ahead belong in AAP. A Gifted kid who is not able to explain the material may not understand the fundamentals and does not belong in AAP. There is no guarantee that a kid who will not write out their explanation in Gen Ed will suddenly do what they are asked to do in AAP.

I earned a PhD. I lost track of the number of ridiculous hoops that you have to jump through and changes and adjustments you have to make while in Grad School. I had a choice, I could do what my Committee told me or encouraged me or I could not earn my Doctorate. I was an adult so I understood my options. A large number of people drop out of PhD programs because of the hoops, the vast majority are plenty smart and capable of completing the work, but the steps seem endless. The kids we are talking about are in first and second grade. They don't understand the implications of not jumping through the hoops but their parents do and should be checking to make sure that their kids are doing the work as instructed. If a kid says "But I just get that 2+2 is 4, why do I have to draw the picture of 2 cats and 2 cats making 4 cats?" The answer is "Because drawing the picture helps your Teacher know that you know the answer and why that is the answer." Not, "I know it is easy and you don't have to do it." Or "I know, it is boring and ridiculous" or whatever other message you are sending that allows your kid to think that no writing out an answer is ok. And yes, there are parents on this forum who argue why kids shouldn't have to show their work or that their kid is too bored to do the assigned work.

The GBRS criteria are out there, the idea that people try to argue that all that matters are the test scores and grades is silly. The OP has made it clear what we already know, the kids need to demonstrate that they understand the principles of the material. They can do that verbally or in writing. If they don't, then they are not meeting one part of the criteria. Asking Teachers to extrapolate that correct answers on exams while not showing their work in the way the Teachers are asking is not the write answer.

A kid doesn't get all 4s in 2nd grade without drawing 4 cats. You're being disingenuous with your long explanation that ignores that.

What does their ability to draw cats have to do with anything?

[Anonymous]

Let’s say child is found ineligible and the teacher made the recommendation and GBRS scores were all COs. Would you appeal the decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say child is found ineligible and the teacher made the recommendation and GBRS scores were all COs. Would you appeal the decision?

Yes. With additional work samples etc. But, I actually think this is an opportunity where WISC would be helpful. If a child does not get in with all COs, that it is likely that test scores were very low. So, here having a high WISC may push the application over to acceptance.

My hunch is that this year, Adv Math, Adv Reading and current AAP designation (II, III) will also matter a lot. I've been hearing that Adv Math is important. (Of course, this is all just a guess so who knows at the end of the day.)

[Anonymous]

Have you ever done or seen a GBRS that was negative?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say child is found ineligible and the teacher made the recommendation and GBRS scores were all COs. Would you appeal the decision?

Yes. With additional work samples etc. But, I actually think this is an opportunity where WISC would be helpful. If a child does not get in with all COs, that it is likely that test scores were very low. So, here having a high WISC may push the application over to acceptance.

My hunch is that this year, Adv Math, Adv Reading and current AAP designation (II, III) will also matter a lot. I've been hearing that Adv Math is important. (Of course, this is all just a guess so who knows at the end of the day.)

This didn't happen at our school in the first quarter of 2nd grade. It was all NT and NA. So I'm not sure about that.