Top Level Goalie Questions (Girls)

[Anonymous]

our team carries two keepers where both made VA ODP team last year and saw action at inter-state friendlies (until covid canx'd season).

[Anonymous]

It seems like we need to agree on what a top goalkeeper is... with 8-10 ‘elite’ girls teams at 3 age groups (16,17,19) with 1-2 keepers per team we have 30-60 kids in the DMV. They may be tops for the region, but most of them won’t be competitive nationally. YNT is definitely one indicator. Is D1 (or top XXX D1)? Does a top drawer soccer tank carry any weight? Best XI lists? My sense is there are probably around 4 top keepers per age group in the region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like we need to agree on what a top goalkeeper is... with 8-10 ‘elite’ girls teams at 3 age groups (16,17,19) with 1-2 keepers per team we have 30-60 kids in the DMV. They may be tops for the region, but most of them won’t be competitive nationally. YNT is definitely one indicator. Is D1 (or top XXX D1)? Does a top drawer soccer tank carry any weight? Best XI lists? My sense is there are probably around 4 top keepers per age group in the region.

You can draw the line wherever it suits your purpose I suppose.
If you just consider ECNL and GA clubs, that is about 20 keepers at one age. Based on what I've seen (we've played almost every GA and ECNL club in the area), over 90% of them are in shared playing time arrangements.
If you were to look at, say NCSL division II, you would find more variety.

[Anonymous]

In the DMV the older teams carry 2 GKs. This is more for team protection. If a GK is out and injured, with just one GK, the team is in trouble. By training two, you always have a back up. The competition is also good to keep both fighting for the starting spot each week. They make each other better.

Our team splits the playing time 50/50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the DMV the older teams carry 2 GKs. This is more for team protection. If a GK is out and injured, with just one GK, the team is in trouble. By training two, you always have a back up. The competition is also good to keep both fighting for the starting spot each week. They make each other better.

Our team splits the playing time 50/50.

Same. We’ve also had injuries during the season and had GKs from second team have to come up at times to fill in. The team still split time between the GKs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid plays GK for a club that is not ECNL. She gets 100% of every minute of every game throughout the year. Twice she was offered spots on a nearby ECNL roster. She would split time 50/50 but offered to rotate time on with the other starter on the 2nd team as well to get extra reps. Both times the offer was made I turned it down.
The way I see it she gets all the time she can handle right now with her current club. They are competitive and play in a good league. She loves her team. What more can a different club offer than she is already getting.

Now some of you will argue she should of course play ECNL...
Why?
Shes happy. No one the team gets more minutes than she does. For us its the best spot for her. Obviously her team is a one GK team with a field player as a backup should it ever come to that

DC was in this predicament and chose to split time and play ECNL. It's a personal choice with a lot of factors to weigh so I'm lending one alt perspective here. In DC's case it has been both beneficial for her development and exposure as well as a huge relief for a few reasons: 1) Before ECNL, the league competition was so bleak for her competitive team that there were games as well as entire tournaments where she wouldn't touch a ball, not even for defensive relief. The competition at the ECNL has given her a tremendous opportunity to step up her game. 2) She could never miss a game when she was the sole keeper (stressful!). Now, not only can we feel we aren't letting down the team if she needs to take a sick day, she loves having a true peer on her team to warm up with and train alongside on the weekends. It's such a unique and challenging position and she feels less isolated on a team with a 2nd keeper.

One or two others in this thread made a comment about needing to be able to refer to being the "starting" keeper at U16 or above. This is inaccurate from my observation. DC is on the bench the first half of every other game and routinely gets views from college coaches including P5. They don't assume there's a big diff between the two rostered keepers such that one is highly skilled and the other merely there as a backup and not as skilled. (I think that dynamic may be more commonplace at the collegiate level.) We've observed the 50/50 split and rotation as such a common practice within the league (as there are diff and equally important considerations for each half) that when we have coaches come by our games at ECNL showcases who are interested in a GK, they simply ask which half she in is playing in so they can know when to watch. No one bats an eye if the response is, "second."

I hope this anecdotal bit helps to lend a diff view to anyone whose DC is grappling with a similar decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid plays GK for a club that is not ECNL. She gets 100% of every minute of every game throughout the year. Twice she was offered spots on a nearby ECNL roster. She would split time 50/50 but offered to rotate time on with the other starter on the 2nd team as well to get extra reps. Both times the offer was made I turned it down.
The way I see it she gets all the time she can handle right now with her current club. They are competitive and play in a good league. She loves her team. What more can a different club offer than she is already getting.

Now some of you will argue she should of course play ECNL...
Why?
Shes happy. No one the team gets more minutes than she does. For us its the best spot for her. Obviously her team is a one GK team with a field player as a backup should it ever come to that

DC was in this predicament and chose to split time and play ECNL. It's a personal choice with a lot of factors to weigh so I'm lending one alt perspective here. In DC's case it has been both beneficial for her development and exposure as well as a huge relief for a few reasons: 1) Before ECNL, the league competition was so bleak for her competitive team that there were games as well as entire tournaments where she wouldn't touch a ball, not even for defensive relief. The competition at the ECNL has given her a tremendous opportunity to step up her game. 2) She could never miss a game when she was the sole keeper (stressful!). Now, not only can we feel we aren't letting down the team if she needs to take a sick day, she loves having a true peer on her team to warm up with and train alongside on the weekends. It's such a unique and challenging position and she feels less isolated on a team with a 2nd keeper.

One or two others in this thread made a comment about needing to be able to refer to being the "starting" keeper at U16 or above. This is inaccurate from my observation. DC is on the bench the first half of every other game and routinely gets views from college coaches including P5. They don't assume there's a big diff between the two rostered keepers such that one is highly skilled and the other merely there as a backup and not as skilled. (I think that dynamic may be more commonplace at the collegiate level.) We've observed the 50/50 split and rotation as such a common practice within the league (as there are diff and equally important considerations for each half) that when we have coaches come by our games at ECNL showcases who are interested in a GK, they simply ask which half she in is playing in so they can know when to watch. No one bats an eye if the response is, "second."

I hope this anecdotal bit helps to lend a diff view to anyone whose DC is grappling with a similar decision.

+1. My son is not a GK but his best friend and teammate is and we know the family very well. When the team brought in the 2nd GK the family was nervous obviously but just the thought of the competition made my sons buddy 100x better. He improved by leaps and bounds. Sought out extra training. Worked on his own. Etc. he loves having another keeper to warm up with and all the things prior poster mentioned. It’s really been a blessing in disguise for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have had two since U13. Always 50/50 game time and same halves each game. Definitely no clear #1/#2 by coach, but my DD is on 7 games with 0 conceded.

so from one parent of a female GK to another, you daughter is on a team with a rock solid defense

your comment about 7 games 0 conceded gave me a good laugh, thank you

Save % is a keeper stat. Goals against is a team stat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid plays GK for a club that is not ECNL. She gets 100% of every minute of every game throughout the year. Twice she was offered spots on a nearby ECNL roster. She would split time 50/50 but offered to rotate time on with the other starter on the 2nd team as well to get extra reps. Both times the offer was made I turned it down.
The way I see it she gets all the time she can handle right now with her current club. They are competitive and play in a good league. She loves her team. What more can a different club offer than she is already getting.

Now some of you will argue she should of course play ECNL...
Why?
Shes happy. No one the team gets more minutes than she does. For us its the best spot for her. Obviously her team is a one GK team with a field player as a backup should it ever come to that

DC was in this predicament and chose to split time and play ECNL. It's a personal choice with a lot of factors to weigh so I'm lending one alt perspective here. In DC's case it has been both beneficial for her development and exposure as well as a huge relief for a few reasons: 1) Before ECNL, the league competition was so bleak for her competitive team that there were games as well as entire tournaments where she wouldn't touch a ball, not even for defensive relief. The competition at the ECNL has given her a tremendous opportunity to step up her game. 2) She could never miss a game when she was the sole keeper (stressful!). Now, not only can we feel we aren't letting down the team if she needs to take a sick day, she loves having a true peer on her team to warm up with and train alongside on the weekends. It's such a unique and challenging position and she feels less isolated on a team with a 2nd keeper.

One or two others in this thread made a comment about needing to be able to refer to being the "starting" keeper at U16 or above. This is inaccurate from my observation. DC is on the bench the first half of every other game and routinely gets views from college coaches including P5. They don't assume there's a big diff between the two rostered keepers such that one is highly skilled and the other merely there as a backup and not as skilled. (I think that dynamic may be more commonplace at the collegiate level.) We've observed the 50/50 split and rotation as such a common practice within the league (as there are diff and equally important considerations for each half) that when we have coaches come by our games at ECNL showcases who are interested in a GK, they simply ask which half she in is playing in so they can know when to watch. No one bats an eye if the response is, "second."

I hope this anecdotal bit helps to lend a diff view to anyone whose DC is grappling with a similar decision.

+1. My son is not a GK but his best friend and teammate is and we know the family very well. When the team brought in the 2nd GK the family was nervous obviously but just the thought of the competition made my sons buddy 100x better. He improved by leaps and bounds. Sought out extra training. Worked on his own. Etc. he loves having another keeper to warm up with and all the things prior poster mentioned. It’s really been a blessing in disguise for him.

Well stated! I applaud you for this comment. Competition breeds champions! Your DC should want another keeper on the team to challenge them (and to have coverage for the team if one of the two keepers is injured). It pushes your DC to get better and not rest on their successes. This pattern is a great lesson for the future. They should have to work hard to get what they want and if there are better people to do the job then they should congratulate them (and work hard to gain it back if that is really what they want). Meritocracy at it's best!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have had two since U13. Always 50/50 game time and same halves each game. Definitely no clear #1/#2 by coach, but my DD is on 7 games with 0 conceded.

so from one parent of a female GK to another, you daughter is on a team with a rock solid defense

your comment about 7 games 0 conceded gave me a good laugh, thank you

Save % is a keeper stat. Goals against is a team stat.

This comment is just not needed. 3rd party observer on this and the comment could be seen as true from one angle but soccer is much bigger than just that one angle. Goals against can be and is also an indication of success as well for a keeper, not just save %. The keeper has to manage the game to help their defense be in position, talk, be a leader on the field, etc. to prevent "team" goals against. The keeper is a huge part of the goals against stat. Absolutely huge part. That said, playing your game, with a 0 conceded and 0 goals against, this keeper has a save % is either at 0% or 100%. Almost sure it is 100% in this case, so great stuff. Can't we just celebrate success here! Sheesh...so many people want to just argue every point. 0 GA is great for any keeper across 7 matches. Enjoy the game people...and the successes within it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have had two since U13. Always 50/50 game time and same halves each game. Definitely no clear #1/#2 by coach, but my DD is on 7 games with 0 conceded.

so from one parent of a female GK to another, you daughter is on a team with a rock solid defense

your comment about 7 games 0 conceded gave me a good laugh, thank you

Save % is a keeper stat. Goals against is a team stat.

This comment is just not needed. 3rd party observer on this and the comment could be seen as true from one angle but soccer is much bigger than just that one angle. Goals against can be and is also an indication of success as well for a keeper, not just save %. The keeper has to manage the game to help their defense be in position, talk, be a leader on the field, etc. to prevent "team" goals against. The keeper is a huge part of the goals against stat. Absolutely huge part. That said, playing your game, with a 0 conceded and 0 goals against, this keeper has a save % is either at 0% or 100%. Almost sure it is 100% in this case, so great stuff. Can't we just celebrate success here! Sheesh...so many people want to just argue every point. 0 GA is great for any keeper across 7 matches. Enjoy the game people...and the successes within it!

+1 and thank you for saying this! I don't understand why mentioning a keeper's 7-0 record--OBVIOUSLY a team record--would get picked apart. It absolutely makes sense for a GK (as a big part of the defense) to tout those stats. DC is a GK and will absolutely mention her fall season of 10 clean sheets in a competitive varsity HS conference on her soccer resume. Goalkeeping is much more than blocking the occasional ball heading toward the goal; it's ball distribution, helping defenders build up plays from the back, directing set pieces, relieving a back line while being a last line....I could go on.

To the PP who mentioned 0 goals conceded in 7 games, I hope your DD keeps up the great work!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have had two since U13. Always 50/50 game time and same halves each game. Definitely no clear #1/#2 by coach, but my DD is on 7 games with 0 conceded.

so from one parent of a female GK to another, you daughter is on a team with a rock solid defense

your comment about 7 games 0 conceded gave me a good laugh, thank you

Save % is a keeper stat. Goals against is a team stat.

This comment is just not needed. 3rd party observer on this and the comment could be seen as true from one angle but soccer is much bigger than just that one angle. Goals against can be and is also an indication of success as well for a keeper, not just save %. The keeper has to manage the game to help their defense be in position, talk, be a leader on the field, etc. to prevent "team" goals against. The keeper is a huge part of the goals against stat. Absolutely huge part. That said, playing your game, with a 0 conceded and 0 goals against, this keeper has a save % is either at 0% or 100%. Almost sure it is 100% in this case, so great stuff. Can't we just celebrate success here! Sheesh...so many people want to just argue every point. 0 GA is great for any keeper across 7 matches. Enjoy the game people...and the successes within it!

+1 and thank you for saying this! I don't understand why mentioning a keeper's 7-0 record--OBVIOUSLY a team record--would get picked apart. It absolutely makes sense for a GK (as a big part of the defense) to tout those stats. DC is a GK and will absolutely mention her fall season of 10 clean sheets in a competitive varsity HS conference on her soccer resume. Goalkeeping is much more than blocking the occasional ball heading toward the goal; it's ball distribution, helping defenders build up plays from the back, directing set pieces, relieving a back line while being a last line....I could go on.

To the PP who mentioned 0 goals conceded in 7 games, I hope your DD keeps up the great work!

I hope your DD thanks the players in front of her who help limit shots. Sorry but Goals Against is a team stat and any keeper that doesn’t recognize that is not a team player.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the top Goalkeepers choose not to play for teams that like to play 2 keepers. Some of your best GKs' especially in boys teams are not in the ECNL. Not as much on girls teams not sure why either.

you can't find an ECNL girls club at U-15 or higher without two keepers plus another PT keeper on the next team down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Through 15U most of the clubs will be splitting GKs (assuming they can roster 2 competitive keepers). By 16U, there is usually a starter and a backup. Strong GKs don’t want to be seen splitting time as they enter the recruiting years. There are some exceptions at regionally dominant clubs, but in the DMV that’s not the case. At the older ages clubs have a difficult time finding GKs that are strong.

this is not the case at most ecnl and ga girls teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Couple quick questions:

When do ECNL teams start carrying two goalies? U15ish?

And when they do, do they usually split game time, or is there a clear #1 and clear #2?

Most ECNL clubs I have seen carry two keepers at all ages (U13 and up). Any coach worth his salt will know to split playing time pretty much down the middle except for championship games. To do otherwise messes with a GK's confidence level. At our club, there are times when games are split at half time, and there are other times where they alternate full games.

Only difference on our team is that the "starter" plays the second half instead in games which might be decided by penalties.

Agree with this. Top keeper is second half.