Detracking and equity threatens all advanced academic programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Saw the scores myself actually.
And the kid is a handful. No doubt in my mind about that.
You're right. I have no idea if that is why he wasn't admitted. But the mom showed me the GBRS after she requested a copy of his packet from the school and it was 100% a railroad job.

The real problem is that FCPS can't decide whether they're running a program for gifted kids, a program for advanced kids, or a program for hardworking kids. All three have different needs, and by lumping them all together in the same pot, they're not really serving anyone's needs. Strictly speaking, the gifted kids who are underachievers and/or have behavior problems are exactly the kids who need gifted programming the most, but AAP can't fill that role for those kids.

Currently, the kids who are the "best fit" for AAP are the ones who are model students, motivated, organized, somewhat advanced - but not too advanced, and bright - but not gifted. It's a worse fit for kids who are highly gifted, unmotivated, have behavior problems, aren't above grade level, and/or are too advanced. It doesn't operate like a true gifted program. It's a program that's mildly accelerated in math and language arts, and that requires kids to be motivated and organized enough to handle a lot of independent work.

The GBRS isn't actually a gifted behaviors scale. It's a scale that assesses how good of a fit your child would be for AAP as it is currently administered. PP, your neighbor's kid sounds like a great fit for a true gifted program, but a bad fit for AAP.

Totally agree with this! It's a bunch of average/above average smart kids who are prepped and taught to excel at school (not necessarily learning). The real genius/out of the box thinkers do not thrive in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is way too much focus on AAP classes in FCPS and it is creating a new form of segregation. If your kid is so smart and isn't challenged in their class then look into them skipping a grade.

All kids are entitled to FAPE (not just SpED kids), and Virginia law requires schools to offer some sort of "gifted" education program. Grade skipping introduces a whole new set of problems. I already have a kid who is youngest in their grade and whose IQ doesn't match their emotional maturity, so skipping a grade is going to compound problems, not make them better. It is a good idea for some kids, but, for most, it's not. To say nothing of ending up with a kid who's ready for college at 16 or 17, which isn't great either.

I don't think you understand what FAPE is. It's not the "ideal" education for your child, but an "appropriate" education. Trust me, if your kid is grade level (or close to it), they are getting FAPE. There is no way FAPE will be interpreted to require the district to educate your child above grade level. As a parent of a kid with LDs, IT is a struggle to get the district to get a kid to grade level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Absolutely true. And the fact that they are identifying these gifted kids in second grade and then glossing over the fact that most of them are no better than any other student by high school should have led to the abandonment of this silly money waster years ago.

Yep. A motivated high achiever will thrive in any environment, and I can't imagine AAP making a difference at all. It's also unlikely to help gifted underachievers, since the program isn't really structured as a gifted program and isn't designed to meet those needs. On top of that, many kids are early peakers (largely boosted by their home environment and SES), while others are late bloomers. AAP only seeks to help the early peakers, who in many cases are pretty average by middle or high school.

If FCPS wanted meaningful programs, it should have a gifted program for only the 3-5% of FCPS students who are actually gifted. To meet the needs of the motivated, high achievers, they should create an "advanced language arts" class, just like how they have advanced math. Kids should be placed flexibly and on an annual basis based on end and beginning of year tests, starting in 2nd or 3rd grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Absolutely true. And the fact that they are identifying these gifted kids in second grade and then glossing over the fact that most of them are no better than any other student by high school should have led to the abandonment of this silly money waster years ago.

Yep. A motivated high achiever will thrive in any environment, and I can't imagine AAP making a difference at all. It's also unlikely to help gifted underachievers, since the program isn't really structured as a gifted program and isn't designed to meet those needs. On top of that, many kids are early peakers (largely boosted by their home environment and SES), while others are late bloomers. AAP only seeks to help the early peakers, who in many cases are pretty average by middle or high school.

If FCPS wanted meaningful programs, it should have a gifted program for only the 3-5% of FCPS students who are actually gifted. To meet the needs of the motivated, high achievers, they should create an "advanced language arts" class, just like how they have advanced math. Kids should be placed flexibly and on an annual basis based on end and beginning of year tests, starting in 2nd or 3rd grade.

100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just because there are not many blacks at TJ doesn’t mean that there aren’t many smart black students in FCPS. This is totally SES and cultural. We used to live in Alexandria/Springfield and there was an African immigrant population whose parents cared very much for their children’s education. I was actually really surprised at how many black kids were at kumon. My very Americanized Asian kid moaned and groaned and we ended our kumon contract as soon as we could get out.

Indians are often darker skinned than Hispanics and African Americans.

I feel like Indians are the most discriminated against. I mean their skin is as dark as blacks yet they are never included in race as brown people.

What does being darker or lighter have to do with anything. Indians have a different set of stereotypes than black Americans and you know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've said this is previous threads. I think AAP is the best they can do in elementary school. I agree it's very flawed; the admission process is not fair, it's not consistent across schools, and bright gen ed kids get left out. But it's what we got.
What I don't understand is the need for it in middle school. I think at that point, kids should test or be placed in classes according to their strengths. They shouldn't be stuck in a track based on how they performed in second grade. And no-not every parent is savvy enough to try to apply to AAP in later grades. Make classes gen ed/Honors/Advanced Honors in middle school.

That is how it works in middle school. Anyone can take honors.

[Anonymous]

Nobody is eliminating algebra from middle school. This is fake news.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/mwstj3/what_do_you_think_about_virginia_department_of/

"I like how the real news is that Virginia's education department had a seminar where someone proposed this idea, Fox changed the headline to say that Virginia was making moves to execute the idea, and your title just makes it seem like Virginia's already doing it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is eliminating algebra from middle school. This is fake news.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/mwstj3/what_do_you_think_about_virginia_department_of/

"I like how the real news is that Virginia's education department had a seminar where someone proposed this idea, Fox changed the headline to say that Virginia was making moves to execute the idea, and your title just makes it seem like Virginia's already doing it."

Nobody is because Youngkin won. But some are still working on it. We can see what they are doing in other states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is eliminating algebra from middle school. This is fake news.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/mwstj3/what_do_you_think_about_virginia_department_of/

"I like how the real news is that Virginia's education department had a seminar where someone proposed this idea, Fox changed the headline to say that Virginia was making moves to execute the idea, and your title just makes it seem like Virginia's already doing it."

Nobody is because Youngkin won. But some are still working on it. We can see what they are doing in other states.

What are other states doing? Be specific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is eliminating algebra from middle school. This is fake news.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/mwstj3/what_do_you_think_about_virginia_department_of/

"I like how the real news is that Virginia's education department had a seminar where someone proposed this idea, Fox changed the headline to say that Virginia was making moves to execute the idea, and your title just makes it seem like Virginia's already doing it."

Nobody is because Youngkin won. But some are still working on it. We can see what they are doing in other states.

What are other states doing? Be specific.

DP. Not necessarily states, but Portland, SF, Cambridge MA, and several individual schools have removed Algebra or are currently in the process of removing it from MS. And some of these are in the process of putting Algebra back in.

[Anonymous]

This thread is from two years ago, dummies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is eliminating algebra from middle school. This is fake news.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/mwstj3/what_do_you_think_about_virginia_department_of/

"I like how the real news is that Virginia's education department had a seminar where someone proposed this idea, Fox changed the headline to say that Virginia was making moves to execute the idea, and your title just makes it seem like Virginia's already doing it."

Looks like our VMPI cheerleader is back.

As we have repeatedly gone over in this forum, VDOE was making moves (publicizing this new initiative through a series of town halls/webinars) to do things that looked like they would have eliminated Algebra from Middle school, among a lot of other things. (They weren't saying it that way - they were saying that they were going to eliminate acceleration in math until 11th grade, and Algebra is taken in 9th grade on the non-accelerated schedule.) There was a huge backlash over the idea of eliminating acceleration/homogenous classrooms, and they backtracked quickly with some language about "oh, no, we'd let school districts decide if they want to allow acceleration."

Before the cheerleader objects, I attended the webinars, town halls, read the material they published, and the studies they cited in their research. There was concerted effort by members of this forum to get WaPo to cover this, but the Post education writer didn't want to. It was a shame Fox was the first outlet to publish on this, because I'm sure it made a lot of people not take the issue as serious as it was.

As someone else noted, this was a few years ago, as Youngkin presumably quashed this effort when he took office. I hate almost everything the guy has done in office, but that's been one of the only benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I previously posted how Algebra was being removed as an option for 6th graders in LCPS.

Looking at the state website explaining curriculum changes, there is a mention of detracking.
The idea is to not separate kids too much and saying that having kids of different ability level in the same class is beneficial to all.
There is also mention of equity in the curriculum.

It appears there is a push in Virginia DOE to remove higher level classes to reduce the achievement gap, particularly if there is a
racial disparity between who is taking the classes.

Fairfax has also adopted critical race theory and a push for equity, so AAP there is likely going to be reduced.

Has anyone seen detracking mentioned at meetings of a school board or other committees?

This is all great news. I've heard this really improves the overall experience for the majority of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is eliminating algebra from middle school. This is fake news.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/mwstj3/what_do_you_think_about_virginia_department_of/

"I like how the real news is that Virginia's education department had a seminar where someone proposed this idea, Fox changed the headline to say that Virginia was making moves to execute the idea, and your title just makes it seem like Virginia's already doing it."

Looks like our VMPI cheerleader is back.

As we have repeatedly gone over in this forum, VDOE was making moves (publicizing this new initiative through a series of town halls/webinars) to do things that looked like they would have eliminated Algebra from Middle school, among a lot of other things. (They weren't saying it that way - they were saying that they were going to eliminate acceleration in math until 11th grade, and Algebra is taken in 9th grade on the non-accelerated schedule.) There was a huge backlash over the idea of eliminating acceleration/homogenous classrooms, and they backtracked quickly with some language about "oh, no, we'd let school districts decide if they want to allow acceleration."

Before the cheerleader objects, I attended the webinars, town halls, read the material they published, and the studies they cited in their research. There was concerted effort by members of this forum to get WaPo to cover this, but the Post education writer didn't want to. It was a shame Fox was the first outlet to publish on this, because I'm sure it made a lot of people not take the issue as serious as it was.

As someone else noted, this was a few years ago, as Youngkin presumably quashed this effort when he took office. I hate almost everything the guy has done in office, but that's been one of the only benefits.

Yes, it's fake news, but if we don't pretend this is happening, how can we get voters riled up over our crazy agenda?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is from two years ago, dummies.

It's from years ago and none of these things ever came to pass. So it was all fake news...