Is John Hopkins an Ivy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Roughly, the "rankings" of the tippy top US colleges goes somewhat like this:

Tier AAA+: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT (some would maybe add Columbia to this tier)
Tier AAA: Columbia, UPenn, UChicago, Northwestern, Duke, Caltech
Tier AA: Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown, Johns Hopkins
Tier A: Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, UCLA, UC Berkely, UMichigan
.

I agree with these groupings, but the tiering is far too steep. Are all the schools lower these mediocre? The tiers are more like AAA+, AAA+/-, AAA, AAA-/+. As PP said, all if these schools are VERY good, and even the next 10 schools in the USNWR rankings are considered very selective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Roughly, the "rankings" of the tippy top US colleges goes somewhat like this:

Tier AAA+: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT (some would maybe add Columbia to this tier)
Tier AAA: Columbia, UPenn, UChicago, Northwestern, Duke, Caltech
Tier AA: Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown, Johns Hopkins
Tier A: Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, UCLA, UC Berkely, UMichigan
.

I agree with these groupings, but the tiering is far too steep. Are all the schools lower these mediocre? The tiers are more like AAA+, AAA+/-, AAA, AAA-/+. As PP said, all if these schools are VERY good, and even the next 10 schools in the USNWR rankings are considered very selective.

These "tiers" remain a fool's errand - and I am being kind with "fool".

All these excellent schools are better than others in certain areas, and it is wholly subjective. HYPSM may jump off a resume faster but they will all stand out in the pile. It does no one any service to gradate the top 20, and possibly not far beyond that.

You people remind me of those guys in high school that argued whether Cindy Crawford was hotter than Christie Brinkley. Y'ain't gittin' either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Roughly, the "rankings" of the tippy top US colleges goes somewhat like this:

Tier AAA+: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT (some would maybe add Columbia to this tier)
Tier AAA: Columbia, UPenn, UChicago, Northwestern, Duke, Caltech
Tier AA: Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown, Johns Hopkins
Tier A: Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, UCLA, UC Berkely, UMichigan
.

I agree with these groupings, but the tiering is far too steep. Are all the schools lower these mediocre? The tiers are more like AAA+, AAA+/-, AAA, AAA-/+. As PP said, all if these schools are VERY good, and even the next 10 schools in the USNWR rankings are considered very selective.

These "tiers" remain a fool's errand - and I am being kind with "fool".

All these excellent schools are better than others in certain areas, and it is wholly subjective. HYPSM may jump off a resume faster but they will all stand out in the pile. It does no one any service to gradate the top 20, and possibly not far beyond that.

You people remind me of those guys in high school that argued whether Cindy Crawford was hotter than Christie Brinkley. Y'ain't gittin' either.

I agree, these are all among the top universities in the world.

[Anonymous]

It's also worth reiterating that Ivy League are NOT THE BEST schools in the country. Some of the best, definitely. But there are a solid 7 or so schools that are just as good if not better than the Ivy League schools.

MIT
Stanford
UChicago
Duke
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins
Cal Tech

In fact, laid out like this, this grouping is probably stronger than the Ivy League...

[Anonymous]

This entire "tier" thing epitomizes the worst of DCUM. You'd be glad if your kid can get into any of those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's also worth reiterating that Ivy League are NOT THE BEST schools in the country. Some of the best, definitely. But there are a solid 7 or so schools that are just as good if not better than the Ivy League schools.

MIT
Stanford
UChicago
Duke
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins
Cal Tech

In fact, laid out like this, this grouping is probably stronger than the Ivy League...

I agree they're not the best, but the whole "ivy" grouping has sort of become deeply entrenched in American culture. The obsession with prestige in this day and age has led to kids and parents chasing after a name-brand and not the real value of education. Brown, for instance, is arguably less academically intense than most of the schools on the list but hordes of A-list celebrities and mega-wealthy people would buy their kids' way into Brown as opposed to have them attend other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's also worth reiterating that Ivy League are NOT THE BEST schools in the country. Some of the best, definitely. But there are a solid 7 or so schools that are just as good if not better than the Ivy League schools.

MIT
Stanford
UChicago
Duke
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins
Cal Tech

In fact, laid out like this, this grouping is probably stronger than the Ivy League...

I agree they're not the best, but the whole "ivy" grouping has sort of become deeply entrenched in American culture. The obsession with prestige in this day and age has led to kids and parents chasing after a name-brand and not the real value of education. Brown, for instance, is arguably less academically intense than most of the schools on the list but hordes of A-list celebrities and mega-wealthy people would buy their kids' way into Brown as opposed to have them attend other schools.

Again, this is all idiocy with no data points of any kind to back up. For you to say "Brown, for instance, is arguably less academically intense than most of the schools on the list." is ridiculous and you have no basis for it. You have no idea.

USN and other rankings are nearly useless, but at least they have a data structure for their analysis. You people are simply pulling this stuff out of your a88es. Please stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's also worth reiterating that Ivy League are NOT THE BEST schools in the country. Some of the best, definitely. But there are a solid 7 or so schools that are just as good if not better than the Ivy League schools.

MIT
Stanford
UChicago
Duke
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins
Cal Tech

In fact, laid out like this, this grouping is probably stronger than the Ivy League...

I agree they're not the best, but the whole "ivy" grouping has sort of become deeply entrenched in American culture. The obsession with prestige in this day and age has led to kids and parents chasing after a name-brand and not the real value of education. Brown, for instance, is arguably less academically intense than most of the schools on the list but hordes of A-list celebrities and mega-wealthy people would buy their kids' way into Brown as opposed to have them attend other schools.

Again, this is all idiocy with no data points of any kind to back up. For you to say "Brown, for instance, is arguably less academically intense than most of the schools on the list." is ridiculous and you have no basis for it. You have no idea.

USN and other rankings are nearly useless, but at least they have a data structure for their analysis. You people are simply pulling this stuff out of your a88es. Please stop.

Calling those schools stronger, combined, than the Ivy League is also pretty BS to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's also worth reiterating that Ivy League are NOT THE BEST schools in the country. Some of the best, definitely. But there are a solid 7 or so schools that are just as good if not better than the Ivy League schools.

MIT
Stanford
UChicago
Duke
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins
Cal Tech

In fact, laid out like this, this grouping is probably stronger than the Ivy League...

I agree they're not the best, but the whole "ivy" grouping has sort of become deeply entrenched in American culture. The obsession with prestige in this day and age has led to kids and parents chasing after a name-brand and not the real value of education. Brown, for instance, is arguably less academically intense than most of the schools on the list but hordes of A-list celebrities and mega-wealthy people would buy their kids' way into Brown as opposed to have them attend other schools.

Again, this is all idiocy with no data points of any kind to back up. For you to say "Brown, for instance, is arguably less academically intense than most of the schools on the list." is ridiculous and you have no basis for it. You have no idea.

USN and other rankings are nearly useless, but at least they have a data structure for their analysis. You people are simply pulling this stuff out of your a88es. Please stop.

Calling those schools stronger, combined, than the Ivy League is also pretty BS to me.

You are all delusional if you don't think those 7 schools are just as good (and yes, just as prestigious) as the Ivy League.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's also worth reiterating that Ivy League are NOT THE BEST schools in the country. Some of the best, definitely. But there are a solid 7 or so schools that are just as good if not better than the Ivy League schools.

MIT
Stanford
UChicago
Duke
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins
Cal Tech

In fact, laid out like this, this grouping is probably stronger than the Ivy League...

I agree they're not the best, but the whole "ivy" grouping has sort of become deeply entrenched in American culture. The obsession with prestige in this day and age has led to kids and parents chasing after a name-brand and not the real value of education. Brown, for instance, is arguably less academically intense than most of the schools on the list but hordes of A-list celebrities and mega-wealthy people would buy their kids' way into Brown as opposed to have them attend other schools.

Again, this is all idiocy with no data points of any kind to back up. For you to say "Brown, for instance, is arguably less academically intense than most of the schools on the list." is ridiculous and you have no basis for it. You have no idea.

USN and other rankings are nearly useless, but at least they have a data structure for their analysis. You people are simply pulling this stuff out of your a88es. Please stop.

Calling those schools stronger, combined, than the Ivy League is also pretty BS to me.

You are all delusional if you don't think those 7 schools are just as good (and yes, just as prestigious) as the Ivy League.

DP here. Please read PP's post. You did not read it well.

Calling those schools stronger, combined, than the Ivy League is also pretty BS to me

So he didn't say they weren't as prestigious. He said claiming they are "probably stronger" was BS. Gosh, I hope you understand the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tangential, but what is the JHU culture like for the undergrads? I have an image of little social activities, intermurals, etc. Many alums who respond on these threads seem to have loved their undergrad experiences at JHU and I’d love to hear more about it, what they appreciate from their time at JHU.

I think the fact that people here exclude it from the list of ultra prestigious schools is a plus, not a minus, for a regular bright kid who actually wants to learn things.

The schools at the top of the prestige list seem to want to attract kids who are the product of an unhealthy kind of upbringing. Example: expecting a high school kid to have published a paper in a serious academic journal, have spectacular recommendations from high school teachers, have won a national science contest, or have competed on sports teams that regularly play more than 60 miles away from the high school make those kids absurdly dependent on the kindness of coaches and teachers.

The people who came up with holistic admissions may have meant well, but the current approach seems more like a system for grooming kids for human trafficking than a serious effort to identify talented kids. “HYPS” students seem to the kids most likely to say yes to whatever a monster with a great job title asks.

The great thing about schools like JHU (and, I would think, the University of Chicago, Cal Tech and Harvey Mudd) is that kids with straight A’s and great test scores can get in based mainly on stats, not based on who had the most productive relationships with abusive creeps.

[Anonymous]

I've always felt the "top 3 schools" are actually about 5 schools.
The top 10 are about 15.
The top 25 are probably about 35-40 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tangential, but what is the JHU culture like for the undergrads? I have an image of little social activities, intermurals, etc. Many alums who respond on these threads seem to have loved their undergrad experiences at JHU and I’d love to hear more about it, what they appreciate from their time at JHU.

I think the fact that people here exclude it from the list of ultra prestigious schools is a plus, not a minus, for a regular bright kid who actually wants to learn things.

The schools at the top of the prestige list seem to want to attract kids who are the product of an unhealthy kind of upbringing. Example: expecting a high school kid to have published a paper in a serious academic journal, have spectacular recommendations from high school teachers, have won a national science contest, or have competed on sports teams that regularly play more than 60 miles away from the high school make those kids absurdly dependent on the kindness of coaches and teachers.

The people who came up with holistic admissions may have meant well, but the current approach seems more like a system for grooming kids for human trafficking than a serious effort to identify talented kids. “HYPS” students seem to the kids most likely to say yes to whatever a monster with a great job title asks.

The great thing about schools like JHU (and, I would think, the University of Chicago, Cal Tech and Harvey Mudd) is that kids with straight A’s and great test scores can get in based mainly on stats, not based on who had the most productive relationships with abusive creeps.

That’s a very interesting way to look at it. You can’t apply it to all accepted student at the Ivies, of course. But for some, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tangential, but what is the JHU culture like for the undergrads? I have an image of little social activities, intermurals, etc. Many alums who respond on these threads seem to have loved their undergrad experiences at JHU and I’d love to hear more about it, what they appreciate from their time at JHU.

I think the fact that people here exclude it from the list of ultra prestigious schools is a plus, not a minus, for a regular bright kid who actually wants to learn things.

The schools at the top of the prestige list seem to want to attract kids who are the product of an unhealthy kind of upbringing. Example: expecting a high school kid to have published a paper in a serious academic journal, have spectacular recommendations from high school teachers, have won a national science contest, or have competed on sports teams that regularly play more than 60 miles away from the high school make those kids absurdly dependent on the kindness of coaches and teachers.

The people who came up with holistic admissions may have meant well, but the current approach seems more like a system for grooming kids for human trafficking than a serious effort to identify talented kids. “HYPS” students seem to the kids most likely to say yes to whatever a monster with a great job title asks.

The great thing about schools like JHU (and, I would think, the University of Chicago, Cal Tech and Harvey Mudd) is that kids with straight A’s and great test scores can get in based mainly on stats, not based on who had the most productive relationships with abusive creeps.

That’s a very interesting way to look at it. You can’t apply it to all accepted student at the Ivies, of course. But for some, yes.

It’s a TERRIBLE and REPULSIVE way to look at it, and one that could only be espoused by an extremely bitter soul who has had little or no experience with the kids who those colleges actually admit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's also worth reiterating that Ivy League are NOT THE BEST schools in the country. Some of the best, definitely. But there are a solid 7 or so schools that are just as good if not better than the Ivy League schools.

MIT
Stanford
UChicago
Duke
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins
Cal Tech

In fact, laid out like this, this grouping is probably stronger than the Ivy League...

This grouping doesn't exist and makes no sense. MIT and Stanford belong to the widely accepted group of T5 - HYPMS. It's not useful or meaningful in anyway to group them with the less prestigious schools such as UChicago or Northwestern.