Has Duran gone mad? (APS)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.

+1

Apparently neither of you read the news. The Washington post has a news story a day about how schools are running safely. Including middle and high schools.

Do you ever read the links in those stories? They aren’t about safety in middle and high schools. Please link a Post article with evidence of safety in middle and high.

+1 If anything, all of the reports indicate that the bodies of pubescent and teen children are -more- like the bodies of adults than they are like the bodies of children. Therefore they merit consideration as adults, not children. If the metrics aren't good enough for places like the Fed or State governments to be open and functioning regularly in much larger and more spacious environments, then it is hard to understand how you think cramming 30 teens into a teeny tiny room with bad HVAC is going to come out well.

The plan isn’t to have 30 teens crammed into a tiny room, so you aren’t credible on this.

[Anonymous]

Can we just note how crazy it was that APS had middle and high school parents reelect hybrid or DL in December with rising metrics and after Duran signaled that he may not follow prior APS guidance? Such a waste of everyone's time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.

+1

Apparently neither of you read the news. The Washington post has a news story a day about how schools are running safely. Including middle and high schools.

Do you ever read the links in those stories? They aren’t about safety in middle and high schools. Please link a Post article with evidence of safety in middle and high.

Yes. Do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.

+1

Apparently neither of you read the news. The Washington post has a news story a day about how schools are running safely. Including middle and high schools.

Do you ever read the links in those stories? They aren’t about safety in middle and high schools. Please link a Post article with evidence of safety in middle and high.

Yes. Do you?
Excellent. Then Can you link to one of the Post articles you mentioned that cites a study that concludes it’s safe for middle and high school students? Should be easy for you if you’re so well versed in the scientific literature!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.

+1

When people say it's not safe there, they are also talking with no evidence.

True enough. I always say there is no evidence that it is safe fir ages 11-18. There is evidence for 10 and under. I resent those who claim it is are fir middle and high. I’d rather they be honest and admit they have no evidence. The people I hear talking about wanting to go back at school board and PTA meetings and such assert that it’s perfectly safe. They are not well informed. What they mean is they want their kids to go back. There’s a difference between what you want and what scientific evidence supports. Though many no longer see that.

This is obviously not entirely true- but the noisiest parents about getting back to school are by and large parents of younger elementary school kids. The noisiest teachers about not ever going back are by and large high school teachers.

With complete reason! High schoolers are biologically adults. They spread it just like adults. They have 8 different classes they switch to, jobs, activities and sports. The risk of exposure at a high school level is LIGHT YEARS away from a 1st grade teacher with a truly cohorted class of 6 year olds. There is no comparison. Elementary can and should go back. 6-12 should not. This isn’t hard.

+1000. Very strange that APS hasn’t really recognized the differences in the potential harm to students and their inability to cohort them. Now they could have cohorted middle if they planned ahead in the fall. But they didn’t.

They have as has every other school district. It’s common knowledge. But rather than tell grades 6-12 parents “unfortunately your kids present much bigger risk to each other and staff of spreading and can’t be cohorted so you just remain distance” they will tie all k-12 together. It’s a lack of leadership. Be willing to say things that aren’t popular and will make people upset if they are the right thing. 6-12 is way riskier. Taking k-5 down with them when their risk is so much lower is stupid but absolutely no district seems to be willing to say younger & more vulnerable learners can go in and older ones cannot and in a panoramic thems the breaks.

Yeah. I just don’t understand why this hasn’t been the plan from the start. Bring back K-5. Keep 6-12 home. That’s what I’d do. Apparently I’m not leadership material for VA public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.



+1



When people say it's not safe there, they are also talking with no evidence.


True enough. I always say there is no evidence that it is safe fir ages 11-18. There is evidence for 10 and under. I resent those who claim it is are fir middle and high. I’d rather they be honest and admit they have no evidence. The people I hear talking about wanting to go back at school board and PTA meetings and such assert that it’s perfectly safe. They are not well informed. What they mean is they want their kids to go back. There’s a difference between what you want and what scientific evidence supports. Though many no longer see that.



This is obviously not entirely true- but the noisiest parents about getting back to school are by and large parents of younger elementary school kids. The noisiest teachers about not ever going back are by and large high school teachers.



With complete reason! High schoolers are biologically adults. They spread it just like adults. They have 8 different classes they switch to, jobs, activities and sports. The risk of exposure at a high school level is LIGHT YEARS away from a 1st grade teacher with a truly cohorted class of 6 year olds. There is no comparison. Elementary can and should go back. 6-12 should not. This isn’t hard.



+1000. Very strange that APS hasn’t really recognized the differences in the potential harm to students and their inability to cohort them. Now they could have cohorted middle if they planned ahead in the fall. But they didn’t.



They have as has every other school district. It’s common knowledge. But rather than tell grades 6-12 parents “unfortunately your kids present much bigger risk to each other and staff of spreading and can’t be cohorted so you just remain distance” they will tie all k-12 together. It’s a lack of leadership. Be willing to say things that aren’t popular and will make people upset if they are the right thing. 6-12 is way riskier. Taking k-5 down with them when their risk is so much lower is stupid but absolutely no district seems to be willing to say younger & more vulnerable learners can go in and older ones cannot and in a panoramic thems the breaks.



Yeah. I just don’t understand why this hasn’t been the plan from the start. Bring back K-5. Keep 6-12 home. That’s what I’d do. Apparently I’m not leadership material for VA public schools.[b]

I'm guessing that you don't have any high school students, who are trying to take APs from home and prep for college apps in this climate. Try telling these kids and parents that their being in-person isn't as important as K-5 being in person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.



+1



When people say it's not safe there, they are also talking with no evidence.


True enough. I always say there is no evidence that it is safe fir ages 11-18. There is evidence for 10 and under. I resent those who claim it is are fir middle and high. I’d rather they be honest and admit they have no evidence. The people I hear talking about wanting to go back at school board and PTA meetings and such assert that it’s perfectly safe. They are not well informed. What they mean is they want their kids to go back. There’s a difference between what you want and what scientific evidence supports. Though many no longer see that.



This is obviously not entirely true- but the noisiest parents about getting back to school are by and large parents of younger elementary school kids. The noisiest teachers about not ever going back are by and large high school teachers.



With complete reason! High schoolers are biologically adults. They spread it just like adults. They have 8 different classes they switch to, jobs, activities and sports. The risk of exposure at a high school level is LIGHT YEARS away from a 1st grade teacher with a truly cohorted class of 6 year olds. There is no comparison. Elementary can and should go back. 6-12 should not. This isn’t hard.



+1000. Very strange that APS hasn’t really recognized the differences in the potential harm to students and their inability to cohort them. Now they could have cohorted middle if they planned ahead in the fall. But they didn’t.



They have as has every other school district. It’s common knowledge. But rather than tell grades 6-12 parents “unfortunately your kids present much bigger risk to each other and staff of spreading and can’t be cohorted so you just remain distance” they will tie all k-12 together. It’s a lack of leadership. Be willing to say things that aren’t popular and will make people upset if they are the right thing. 6-12 is way riskier. Taking k-5 down with them when their risk is so much lower is stupid but absolutely no district seems to be willing to say younger & more vulnerable learners can go in and older ones cannot and in a panoramic thems the breaks.



Yeah. I just don’t understand why this hasn’t been the plan from the start. Bring back K-5. Keep 6-12 home. That’s what I’d do. Apparently I’m not leadership material for VA public schools.[b]

I'm guessing that you don't have any high school students, who are trying to take APs from home and prep for college apps in this climate. Try telling these kids and parents that their being in-person isn't as important as K-5 being in person.

We aren’t saying it’s less important for them to be in. We are saying it is less safe though. Yes, unfortunate. But truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.



+1



When people say it's not safe there, they are also talking with no evidence.


True enough. I always say there is no evidence that it is safe fir ages 11-18. There is evidence for 10 and under. I resent those who claim it is are fir middle and high. I’d rather they be honest and admit they have no evidence. The people I hear talking about wanting to go back at school board and PTA meetings and such assert that it’s perfectly safe. They are not well informed. What they mean is they want their kids to go back. There’s a difference between what you want and what scientific evidence supports. Though many no longer see that.



This is obviously not entirely true- but the noisiest parents about getting back to school are by and large parents of younger elementary school kids. The noisiest teachers about not ever going back are by and large high school teachers.



With complete reason! High schoolers are biologically adults. They spread it just like adults. They have 8 different classes they switch to, jobs, activities and sports. The risk of exposure at a high school level is LIGHT YEARS away from a 1st grade teacher with a truly cohorted class of 6 year olds. There is no comparison. Elementary can and should go back. 6-12 should not. This isn’t hard.



+1000. Very strange that APS hasn’t really recognized the differences in the potential harm to students and their inability to cohort them. Now they could have cohorted middle if they planned ahead in the fall. But they didn’t.



They have as has every other school district. It’s common knowledge. But rather than tell grades 6-12 parents “unfortunately your kids present much bigger risk to each other and staff of spreading and can’t be cohorted so you just remain distance” they will tie all k-12 together. It’s a lack of leadership. Be willing to say things that aren’t popular and will make people upset if they are the right thing. 6-12 is way riskier. Taking k-5 down with them when their risk is so much lower is stupid but absolutely no district seems to be willing to say younger & more vulnerable learners can go in and older ones cannot and in a panoramic thems the breaks.



Yeah. I just don’t understand why this hasn’t been the plan from the start. Bring back K-5. Keep 6-12 home. That’s what I’d do. Apparently I’m not leadership material for VA public schools.[b]

I'm guessing that you don't have any high school students, who are trying to take APs from home and prep for college apps in this climate. Try telling these kids and parents that their being in-person isn't as important as K-5 being in person.

We aren’t saying it’s less important for them to be in. We are saying it is less safe though. Yes, unfortunate. But truth.

Also, flip the scenario. Let’s say CoVID had way bigger impact on little kids and they spread it easier and had worse effects. And high schoolers almost none. Would you really think it was fair to keep high schoolers out until the little kid cohort could do to safely with less risk? Of course you wouldn’t. You’d say if it isn’t safe for elementary keep them home but there’s no reason high school can’t go. Yet for some reason it’s perfectly okay to say elementary has to stay out even though we all know the real ones who will cause numbers to spike and increase case spread are high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.



+1



When people say it's not safe there, they are also talking with no evidence.


True enough. I always say there is no evidence that it is safe fir ages 11-18. There is evidence for 10 and under. I resent those who claim it is are fir middle and high. I’d rather they be honest and admit they have no evidence. The people I hear talking about wanting to go back at school board and PTA meetings and such assert that it’s perfectly safe. They are not well informed. What they mean is they want their kids to go back. There’s a difference between what you want and what scientific evidence supports. Though many no longer see that.



This is obviously not entirely true- but the noisiest parents about getting back to school are by and large parents of younger elementary school kids. The noisiest teachers about not ever going back are by and large high school teachers.



With complete reason! High schoolers are biologically adults. They spread it just like adults. They have 8 different classes they switch to, jobs, activities and sports. The risk of exposure at a high school level is LIGHT YEARS away from a 1st grade teacher with a truly cohorted class of 6 year olds. There is no comparison. Elementary can and should go back. 6-12 should not. This isn’t hard.



+1000. Very strange that APS hasn’t really recognized the differences in the potential harm to students and their inability to cohort them. Now they could have cohorted middle if they planned ahead in the fall. But they didn’t.



They have as has every other school district. It’s common knowledge. But rather than tell grades 6-12 parents “unfortunately your kids present much bigger risk to each other and staff of spreading and can’t be cohorted so you just remain distance” they will tie all k-12 together. It’s a lack of leadership. Be willing to say things that aren’t popular and will make people upset if they are the right thing. 6-12 is way riskier. Taking k-5 down with them when their risk is so much lower is stupid but absolutely no district seems to be willing to say younger & more vulnerable learners can go in and older ones cannot and in a panoramic thems the breaks.



Yeah. I just don’t understand why this hasn’t been the plan from the start. Bring back K-5. Keep 6-12 home. That’s what I’d do. Apparently I’m not leadership material for VA public schools.[b]

I'm guessing that you don't have any high school students, who are trying to take APs from home and prep for college apps in this climate. Try telling these kids and parents that their being in-person isn't as important as K-5 being in person.

We aren’t saying it’s less important for them to be in. We are saying it is less safe though. Yes, unfortunate. But truth.

Also, flip the scenario. Let’s say CoVID had way bigger impact on little kids and they spread it easier and had worse effects. And high schoolers almost none. Would you really think it was fair to keep high schoolers out until the little kid cohort could do to safely with less risk? Of course you wouldn’t. You’d say if it isn’t safe for elementary keep them home but there’s no reason high school can’t go. Yet for some reason it’s perfectly okay to say elementary has to stay out even though we all know the real ones who will cause numbers to spike and increase case spread are high school.

+1. I think ES should be in school and MS and HS should be home. I have 1 MS and 2 Hsers. It's not safe for them to be moving in crowded halls multiple times a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.



+1



When people say it's not safe there, they are also talking with no evidence.


True enough. I always say there is no evidence that it is safe fir ages 11-18. There is evidence for 10 and under. I resent those who claim it is are fir middle and high. I’d rather they be honest and admit they have no evidence. The people I hear talking about wanting to go back at school board and PTA meetings and such assert that it’s perfectly safe. They are not well informed. What they mean is they want their kids to go back. There’s a difference between what you want and what scientific evidence supports. Though many no longer see that.



This is obviously not entirely true- but the noisiest parents about getting back to school are by and large parents of younger elementary school kids. The noisiest teachers about not ever going back are by and large high school teachers.



With complete reason! High schoolers are biologically adults. They spread it just like adults. They have 8 different classes they switch to, jobs, activities and sports. The risk of exposure at a high school level is LIGHT YEARS away from a 1st grade teacher with a truly cohorted class of 6 year olds. There is no comparison. Elementary can and should go back. 6-12 should not. This isn’t hard.



+1000. Very strange that APS hasn’t really recognized the differences in the potential harm to students and their inability to cohort them. Now they could have cohorted middle if they planned ahead in the fall. But they didn’t.



They have as has every other school district. It’s common knowledge. But rather than tell grades 6-12 parents “unfortunately your kids present much bigger risk to each other and staff of spreading and can’t be cohorted so you just remain distance” they will tie all k-12 together. It’s a lack of leadership. Be willing to say things that aren’t popular and will make people upset if they are the right thing. 6-12 is way riskier. Taking k-5 down with them when their risk is so much lower is stupid but absolutely no district seems to be willing to say younger & more vulnerable learners can go in and older ones cannot and in a panoramic thems the breaks.



Yeah. I just don’t understand why this hasn’t been the plan from the start. Bring back K-5. Keep 6-12 home. That’s what I’d do. Apparently I’m not leadership material for VA public schools.[b]

I'm guessing that you don't have any high school students, who are trying to take APs from home and prep for college apps in this climate. Try telling these kids and parents that their being in-person isn't as important as K-5 being in person.

We aren’t saying it’s less important for them to be in. We are saying it is less safe though. Yes, unfortunate. But truth.

Also, flip the scenario. Let’s say CoVID had way bigger impact on little kids and they spread it easier and had worse effects. And high schoolers almost none. Would you really think it was fair to keep high schoolers out until the little kid cohort could do to safely with less risk? Of course you wouldn’t. You’d say if it isn’t safe for elementary keep them home but there’s no reason high school can’t go. Yet for some reason it’s perfectly okay to say elementary has to stay out even though we all know the real ones who will cause numbers to spike and increase case spread are high school.

+1. I think ES should be in school and MS and HS should be home. I have 1 MS and 2 Hsers. It's not safe for them to be moving in crowded halls multiple times a day.

I'm totally on board with elementary going back. I'd also support targeted ways to help middle and high schoolers. Perhaps its weekend in person AP prep session spread out in a gym, or a week of in person for just AP classes. I don't know. It's not an easy problem, but I'm on board with finding them help too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.

+1

Apparently neither of you read the news. The Washington post has a news story a day about how schools are running safely. Including middle and high schools.

Do you ever read the links in those stories? They aren’t about safety in middle and high schools. Please link a Post article with evidence of safety in middle and high.

Yes. Do you?
Excellent. Then Can you link to one of the Post articles you mentioned that cites a study that concludes it’s safe for middle and high school students? Should be easy for you if you’re so well versed in the scientific literature!

How about you link an article citing studies that conclude its not safe for middle and high school students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.

+1

Apparently neither of you read the news. The Washington post has a news story a day about how schools are running safely. Including middle and high schools.

Do you ever read the links in those stories? They aren’t about safety in middle and high schools. Please link a Post article with evidence of safety in middle and high.

Yes. Do you?
Excellent. Then Can you link to one of the Post articles you mentioned that cites a study that concludes it’s safe for middle and high school students? Should be easy for you if you’re so well versed in the scientific literature!

How about you link an article citing studies that conclude its not safe for middle and high school students?

Well. I’m the one who said there’s an absence of evidence on that. Which is true. So I can’t. But you said that there was a Post article every day with evidence of safety in middle and high. So I asked to see them. Still waiting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.

+1

Apparently neither of you read the news. The Washington post has a news story a day about how schools are running safely. Including middle and high schools.

Do you ever read the links in those stories? They aren’t about safety in middle and high schools. Please link a Post article with evidence of safety in middle and high.

+1 If anything, all of the reports indicate that the bodies of pubescent and teen children are -more- like the bodies of adults than they are like the bodies of children. Therefore they merit consideration as adults, not children. If the metrics aren't good enough for places like the Fed or State governments to be open and functioning regularly in much larger and more spacious environments, then it is hard to understand how you think cramming 30 teens into a teeny tiny room with bad HVAC is going to come out well.

The plan isn’t to have 30 teens crammed into a tiny room, so you aren’t credible on this.

Don't be deliberately obtuse. People want "normal" and "normal" is 30+ kids in a room. Even 15 "adult-bodied" kids in one room is too many. Like I said, until the Fed and States and everyone else is doing it with grownups, we shouldn't be doing it with teens. The thought is so ludicrous. They are the one age group capable of self-management. There is no need at all for the risk. (The caveat being those of you raising kids to have mental health issues.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.

+1

Apparently neither of you read the news. The Washington post has a news story a day about how schools are running safely. Including middle and high schools.

Do you ever read the links in those stories? They aren’t about safety in middle and high schools. Please link a Post article with evidence of safety in middle and high.

Yes. Do you?
Excellent. Then Can you link to one of the Post articles you mentioned that cites a study that concludes it’s safe for middle and high school students? Should be easy for you if you’re so well versed in the scientific literature!

How about you link an article citing studies that conclude its not safe for middle and high school students?

Well. I’m the one who said there’s an absence of evidence on that. Which is true. So I can’t. But you said that there was a Post article every day with evidence of safety in middle and high. So I asked to see them. Still waiting.

No dog in your fight but here to help you out... Looks like it isn't safe for middle school. A quick google search pulled up these:

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/virus-or-middle-school-students-return-to-alternating-schedules/ar-BB1aZYbw

www.tapinto.net/towns/chatham/sections/education/articles/reported-virus-case-converts-chatham-middle-school-to-all-virtual-for-tuesday-dec-15-in-person-expected-back-wednesday

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There’s no good science on safety for middle and high school. None. When people say it’s safe there, they are talking with no evidence.



+1



When people say it's not safe there, they are also talking with no evidence.


True enough. I always say there is no evidence that it is safe fir ages 11-18. There is evidence for 10 and under. I resent those who claim it is are fir middle and high. I’d rather they be honest and admit they have no evidence. The people I hear talking about wanting to go back at school board and PTA meetings and such assert that it’s perfectly safe. They are not well informed. What they mean is they want their kids to go back. There’s a difference between what you want and what scientific evidence supports. Though many no longer see that.



This is obviously not entirely true- but the noisiest parents about getting back to school are by and large parents of younger elementary school kids. The noisiest teachers about not ever going back are by and large high school teachers.



With complete reason! High schoolers are biologically adults. They spread it just like adults. They have 8 different classes they switch to, jobs, activities and sports. The risk of exposure at a high school level is LIGHT YEARS away from a 1st grade teacher with a truly cohorted class of 6 year olds. There is no comparison. Elementary can and should go back. 6-12 should not. This isn’t hard.



+1000. Very strange that APS hasn’t really recognized the differences in the potential harm to students and their inability to cohort them. Now they could have cohorted middle if they planned ahead in the fall. But they didn’t.



They have as has every other school district. It’s common knowledge. But rather than tell grades 6-12 parents “unfortunately your kids present much bigger risk to each other and staff of spreading and can’t be cohorted so you just remain distance” they will tie all k-12 together. It’s a lack of leadership. Be willing to say things that aren’t popular and will make people upset if they are the right thing. 6-12 is way riskier. Taking k-5 down with them when their risk is so much lower is stupid but absolutely no district seems to be willing to say younger & more vulnerable learners can go in and older ones cannot and in a panoramic thems the breaks.



Yeah. I just don’t understand why this hasn’t been the plan from the start. Bring back K-5. Keep 6-12 home. That’s what I’d do. Apparently I’m not leadership material for VA public schools.[b]

I'm guessing that you don't have any high school students, who are trying to take APs from home and prep for college apps in this climate. Try telling these kids and parents that their being in-person isn't as important as K-5 being in person.

We aren’t saying it’s less important for them to be in. We are saying it is less safe though. Yes, unfortunate. But truth.

Also, flip the scenario. Let’s say CoVID had way bigger impact on little kids and they spread it easier and had worse effects. And high schoolers almost none. Would you really think it was fair to keep high schoolers out until the little kid cohort could do to safely with less risk? Of course you wouldn’t. You’d say if it isn’t safe for elementary keep them home but there’s no reason high school can’t go. Yet for some reason it’s perfectly okay to say elementary has to stay out even though we all know the real ones who will cause numbers to spike and increase case spread are high school.

the problem is the impact on teachers. For them it is a big deal.