Therapeutic Wilderness Schools - Any Insights?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please just be very careful. These schools are largely unregulated in many states and I imagine you’re aware of the bad practices that have come to light at many therapeutic boarding schools. Also, much like juvie, your kid will be in an environment where he is exposed to kids with more problematic behaviors than his and may decompensate as a result.

Be sure that you’ve exhausted all options in your community first. Therapy, alternative school, etc.

You know what makes those of us who have to ask the question about residential treatment and therapeutic wilderness schools crazy? Those who suggest we avoid them after we've exhausted everything else there is out there to help our kids and then don't offer us alternatives and those who think we've made this decision unthoughtfully.

Parents don't decide to deplete their entire life savings to sent the children that they love more than words can say to an extremely difficult environment to deal with unbelievable painful challenges when there is another alternative. Those of us that look to this type of program have tried everything. We've exhausted everything that exists. And, we are deciding to empty our bank accounts to help our kids which in turn may hurt our other kids so we're in the not-quite-Sophie's-choice of choosing which kid matters more.

Please, stop criticizing us. If you have something to offer that we might not have thought about, we are all ears. But just telling us that some of these programs are bad so we shouldn't go this direction is so unhelpful. If not these type of programs, then what? Do we let our kids die of an overdose? Do we let them cut themselves until they bleed out because there are so many cuts that they can't be stitched up? Do we continue to hope and pray that every night when we come home from work that we don't find our kid dead with a noose around their neck- after we dropped our younger kids off at the neighbor's house while we check to make sure they are actually still alive because we want to find our dead kid first? Do we let them break their siblings' arms? Do we push furniture against our bedroom doors when we can no longer stay awake in hopes that we will wake up alive in the morning? Do we hang ladders out our second story windows in case of an intentionally set fire? Do you even have a clue as to how bad it can be? I've just scratched the surface and I bet you cannot imagine the life some of us live.

When we get to the point of looking at sending our kids away for treatment, we are desperate and afraid for our kids and our families. We know the risks because if we didn't, we might have sent them away earlier. We also know the cost of not doing it and of doing it. So, please, if you have something to offer, do so. But to second guess our decision to move forward or to suggest that we haven't considered some unnamed alternative is hurtful when we are already crumbling under our pain and desperation. We love our kids and we are only hoping to figure out a way to get them healthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please just be very careful. These schools are largely unregulated in many states and I imagine you’re aware of the bad practices that have come to light at many therapeutic boarding schools. Also, much like juvie, your kid will be in an environment where he is exposed to kids with more problematic behaviors than his and may decompensate as a result.

Be sure that you’ve exhausted all options in your community first. Therapy, alternative school, etc.

You know what makes those of us who have to ask the question about residential treatment and therapeutic wilderness schools crazy? Those who suggest we avoid them after we've exhausted everything else there is out there to help our kids and then don't offer us alternatives and those who think we've made this decision unthoughtfully.

Parents don't decide to deplete their entire life savings to sent the children that they love more than words can say to an extremely difficult environment to deal with unbelievable painful challenges when there is another alternative. Those of us that look to this type of program have tried everything. We've exhausted everything that exists. And, we are deciding to empty our bank accounts to help our kids which in turn may hurt our other kids so we're in the not-quite-Sophie's-choice of choosing which kid matters more.

Please, stop criticizing us. If you have something to offer that we might not have thought about, we are all ears. But just telling us that some of these programs are bad so we shouldn't go this direction is so unhelpful. If not these type of programs, then what? Do we let our kids die of an overdose? Do we let them cut themselves until they bleed out because there are so many cuts that they can't be stitched up? Do we continue to hope and pray that every night when we come home from work that we don't find our kid dead with a noose around their neck- after we dropped our younger kids off at the neighbor's house while we check to make sure they are actually still alive because we want to find our dead kid first? Do we let them break their siblings' arms? Do we push furniture against our bedroom doors when we can no longer stay awake in hopes that we will wake up alive in the morning? Do we hang ladders out our second story windows in case of an intentionally set fire? Do you even have a clue as to how bad it can be? I've just scratched the surface and I bet you cannot imagine the life some of us live.

When we get to the point of looking at sending our kids away for treatment, we are desperate and afraid for our kids and our families. We know the risks because if we didn't, we might have sent them away earlier. We also know the cost of not doing it and of doing it. So, please, if you have something to offer, do so. But to second guess our decision to move forward or to suggest that we haven't considered some unnamed alternative is hurtful when we are already crumbling under our pain and desperation. We love our kids and we are only hoping to figure out a way to get them healthy.

Exactly. I share every ounce of your pain, concern, and love for our kids, which is why we made the same decision you did. It’s a decision aimed at saving your child’s life, and, paradoxically, hospitalization programs aren’t very good at that because they cycle kids in and out of their doors too quickly, thanks to pressures from the insurance industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please just be very careful. These schools are largely unregulated in many states and I imagine you’re aware of the bad practices that have come to light at many therapeutic boarding schools. Also, much like juvie, your kid will be in an environment where he is exposed to kids with more problematic behaviors than his and may decompensate as a result.

Be sure that you’ve exhausted all options in your community first. Therapy, alternative school, etc.

You know what makes those of us who have to ask the question about residential treatment and therapeutic wilderness schools crazy? Those who suggest we avoid them after we've exhausted everything else there is out there to help our kids and then don't offer us alternatives and those who think we've made this decision unthoughtfully.

Parents don't decide to deplete their entire life savings to sent the children that they love more than words can say to an extremely difficult environment to deal with unbelievable painful challenges when there is another alternative. Those of us that look to this type of program have tried everything. We've exhausted everything that exists. And, we are deciding to empty our bank accounts to help our kids which in turn may hurt our other kids so we're in the not-quite-Sophie's-choice of choosing which kid matters more.

Please, stop criticizing us. If you have something to offer that we might not have thought about, we are all ears. But just telling us that some of these programs are bad so we shouldn't go this direction is so unhelpful. If not these type of programs, then what? Do we let our kids die of an overdose? Do we let them cut themselves until they bleed out because there are so many cuts that they can't be stitched up? Do we continue to hope and pray that every night when we come home from work that we don't find our kid dead with a noose around their neck- after we dropped our younger kids off at the neighbor's house while we check to make sure they are actually still alive because we want to find our dead kid first? Do we let them break their siblings' arms? Do we push furniture against our bedroom doors when we can no longer stay awake in hopes that we will wake up alive in the morning? Do we hang ladders out our second story windows in case of an intentionally set fire? Do you even have a clue as to how bad it can be? I've just scratched the surface and I bet you cannot imagine the life some of us live.

When we get to the point of looking at sending our kids away for treatment, we are desperate and afraid for our kids and our families. We know the risks because if we didn't, we might have sent them away earlier. We also know the cost of not doing it and of doing it. So, please, if you have something to offer, do so. But to second guess our decision to move forward or to suggest that we haven't considered some unnamed alternative is hurtful when we are already crumbling under our pain and desperation. We love our kids and we are only hoping to figure out a way to get them healthy.

Thank you for putting into words how so many of us feel! Obviously, nobody goes into this without trying everything else first. The condescending posts are so frustrating. Live a day in our shoes and then talk!

[Anonymous]

Dear Poster @ 21:50: thank you for giving voice to the frustration many of us feel with those less-than-helpful suggestions. When I posted about my family's decision to send DD to a TBS, I could not believe the numbers of people who would not or could not understand what might have led to that decision (self-harm, risk behavior, suicidal gestures, multiple psychiatric hospitalizations) or that the decision might have been driven by professional advice from reputable therapists and psychiatrists.

Look, I understand that I will probably have to defend this decision for the rest of my life--to my daughter, to my family, and to anyone who hears about it. But my DD is alive and she graduated high school--and those outcomes were not guaranteed for her, not by a long shot. I can live with the judgments, along with my own ambivalence about the lapses and mistakes made in my DDs treatment--because my kid is alive.

But for goodness sake, what makes people think that there are oodles of community resources available for families dealing with children with mental health issues?

[Anonymous]

Anyone have any experience with programs offered by Embark?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please just be very careful. These schools are largely unregulated in many states and I imagine you’re aware of the bad practices that have come to light at many therapeutic boarding schools. Also, much like juvie, your kid will be in an environment where he is exposed to kids with more problematic behaviors than his and may decompensate as a result.

Be sure that you’ve exhausted all options in your community first. Therapy, alternative school, etc.

You know what makes those of us who have to ask the question about residential treatment and therapeutic wilderness schools crazy? Those who suggest we avoid them after we've exhausted everything else there is out there to help our kids and then don't offer us alternatives and those who think we've made this decision unthoughtfully.

Parents don't decide to deplete their entire life savings to sent the children that they love more than words can say to an extremely difficult environment to deal with unbelievable painful challenges when there is another alternative. Those of us that look to this type of program have tried everything. We've exhausted everything that exists. And, we are deciding to empty our bank accounts to help our kids which in turn may hurt our other kids so we're in the not-quite-Sophie's-choice of choosing which kid matters more.

Please, stop criticizing us. If you have something to offer that we might not have thought about, we are all ears. But just telling us that some of these programs are bad so we shouldn't go this direction is so unhelpful. If not these type of programs, then what? Do we let our kids die of an overdose? Do we let them cut themselves until they bleed out because there are so many cuts that they can't be stitched up? Do we continue to hope and pray that every night when we come home from work that we don't find our kid dead with a noose around their neck- after we dropped our younger kids off at the neighbor's house while we check to make sure they are actually still alive because we want to find our dead kid first? Do we let them break their siblings' arms? Do we push furniture against our bedroom doors when we can no longer stay awake in hopes that we will wake up alive in the morning? Do we hang ladders out our second story windows in case of an intentionally set fire? Do you even have a clue as to how bad it can be? I've just scratched the surface and I bet you cannot imagine the life some of us live.

When we get to the point of looking at sending our kids away for treatment, we are desperate and afraid for our kids and our families. We know the risks because if we didn't, we might have sent them away earlier. We also know the cost of not doing it and of doing it. So, please, if you have something to offer, do so. But to second guess our decision to move forward or to suggest that we haven't considered some unnamed alternative is hurtful when we are already crumbling under our pain and desperation. We love our kids and we are only hoping to figure out a way to get them healthy.

I’m sure you are doing this because you feel it is your last resort. However, there is no disputing that many “wilderness schools” have been abusive places that harm kids, not help. And also that some parents who use them are themselves abusive/neglectful and are using it to punish kids who are acting out in a dysfunctional family, not due to actual mental health concerns.

My experience of the latter (abusive families/abusive school) was from the 90s so of course things may have changed. Based on the feedback in this post, I now understand that there are boarding schools that are actually therepeutic (have doctors on staff, use conventional evidence based mental health therapies)that are in the wilderness and use the outdoors therepeutically, but are not “bootcamps.”

However the abusive “wilderness therapy” places still exist, as do the families that just want to get rid of their teens or punish/blame them instead of fixing the dysfunctional family with appropriate treatment.

Only you know which camp you are in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have any experience with programs offered by Embark?

sounds horrific

https://www.reddit.com/r/troubledteens/comments/bkzsol/calo_teens_calo_of_embark_behavioral_health/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have any experience with programs offered by Embark?

sounds horrific

https://www.reddit.com/r/troubledteens/comments/bkzsol/calo_teens_calo_of_embark_behavioral_health/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

Frankly, I'm not sure where one goes online to get a fair opinion of any of these places, but the r/troubledteens subreddit isn't it. Positive posts there are explicitly banned and removed:

"No posts praising a Troubled Teen Program.
No posts praising any Troubled Teen Program are allowed. If you believe that you had a 'good experience' in the TTI...then this is not the subreddit for you."

[Anonymous]

Someone's sibling's experience with something in the 1990s isn't relevant to discussions in 2021.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please just be very careful. These schools are largely unregulated in many states and I imagine you’re aware of the bad practices that have come to light at many therapeutic boarding schools. Also, much like juvie, your kid will be in an environment where he is exposed to kids with more problematic behaviors than his and may decompensate as a result.

Be sure that you’ve exhausted all options in your community first. Therapy, alternative school, etc.

You know what makes those of us who have to ask the question about residential treatment and therapeutic wilderness schools crazy? Those who suggest we avoid them after we've exhausted everything else there is out there to help our kids and then don't offer us alternatives and those who think we've made this decision unthoughtfully.

Parents don't decide to deplete their entire life savings to sent the children that they love more than words can say to an extremely difficult environment to deal with unbelievable painful challenges when there is another alternative. Those of us that look to this type of program have tried everything. We've exhausted everything that exists. And, we are deciding to empty our bank accounts to help our kids which in turn may hurt our other kids so we're in the not-quite-Sophie's-choice of choosing which kid matters more.

Please, stop criticizing us. If you have something to offer that we might not have thought about, we are all ears. But just telling us that some of these programs are bad so we shouldn't go this direction is so unhelpful. If not these type of programs, then what? Do we let our kids die of an overdose? Do we let them cut themselves until they bleed out because there are so many cuts that they can't be stitched up? Do we continue to hope and pray that every night when we come home from work that we don't find our kid dead with a noose around their neck- after we dropped our younger kids off at the neighbor's house while we check to make sure they are actually still alive because we want to find our dead kid first? Do we let them break their siblings' arms? Do we push furniture against our bedroom doors when we can no longer stay awake in hopes that we will wake up alive in the morning? Do we hang ladders out our second story windows in case of an intentionally set fire? Do you even have a clue as to how bad it can be? I've just scratched the surface and I bet you cannot imagine the life some of us live.

When we get to the point of looking at sending our kids away for treatment, we are desperate and afraid for our kids and our families. We know the risks because if we didn't, we might have sent them away earlier. We also know the cost of not doing it and of doing it. So, please, if you have something to offer, do so. But to second guess our decision to move forward or to suggest that we haven't considered some unnamed alternative is hurtful when we are already crumbling under our pain and desperation. We love our kids and we are only hoping to figure out a way to get them healthy.

I’m sure you are doing this because you feel it is your last resort. However, there is no disputing that many “wilderness schools” have been abusive places that harm kids, not help. And also that some parents who use them are themselves abusive/neglectful and are using it to punish kids who are acting out in a dysfunctional family, not due to actual mental health concerns.

My experience of the latter (abusive families/abusive school) was from the 90s so of course things may have changed. Based on the feedback in this post, I now understand that there are boarding schools that are actually therepeutic (have doctors on staff, use conventional evidence based mental health therapies)that are in the wilderness and use the outdoors therepeutically, but are not “bootcamps.”

However the abusive “wilderness therapy” places still exist, as do the families that just want to get rid of their teens or punish/blame them instead of fixing the dysfunctional family with appropriate treatment.

Only you know which camp you are in.

You just can’t help yourself can you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have any experience with programs offered by Embark?

sounds horrific

https://www.reddit.com/r/troubledteens/comments/bkzsol/calo_teens_calo_of_embark_behavioral_health/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

Frankly, I'm not sure where one goes online to get a fair opinion of any of these places, but the r/troubledteens subreddit isn't it. Positive posts there are explicitly banned and removed:

"No posts praising a Troubled Teen Program.
No posts praising any Troubled Teen Program are allowed. If you believe that you had a 'good experience' in the TTI...then this is not the subreddit for you."

Well, that's an issue anywhere on the internet. Personally I think the negative posts are valuable insight as to how the program is run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone's sibling's experience with something in the 1990s isn't relevant to discussions in 2021.

It absolutely is, because the abusive wildnerness bootcamp model is still out there. What's clear is that the actually therapeutic boarding schools ought to figure out a way to differentiate themselves if there's not already some kind of accreditation they can get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please just be very careful. These schools are largely unregulated in many states and I imagine you’re aware of the bad practices that have come to light at many therapeutic boarding schools. Also, much like juvie, your kid will be in an environment where he is exposed to kids with more problematic behaviors than his and may decompensate as a result.

Be sure that you’ve exhausted all options in your community first. Therapy, alternative school, etc.

You know what makes those of us who have to ask the question about residential treatment and therapeutic wilderness schools crazy? Those who suggest we avoid them after we've exhausted everything else there is out there to help our kids and then don't offer us alternatives and those who think we've made this decision unthoughtfully.

Parents don't decide to deplete their entire life savings to sent the children that they love more than words can say to an extremely difficult environment to deal with unbelievable painful challenges when there is another alternative. Those of us that look to this type of program have tried everything. We've exhausted everything that exists. And, we are deciding to empty our bank accounts to help our kids which in turn may hurt our other kids so we're in the not-quite-Sophie's-choice of choosing which kid matters more.

Please, stop criticizing us. If you have something to offer that we might not have thought about, we are all ears. But just telling us that some of these programs are bad so we shouldn't go this direction is so unhelpful. If not these type of programs, then what? Do we let our kids die of an overdose? Do we let them cut themselves until they bleed out because there are so many cuts that they can't be stitched up? Do we continue to hope and pray that every night when we come home from work that we don't find our kid dead with a noose around their neck- after we dropped our younger kids off at the neighbor's house while we check to make sure they are actually still alive because we want to find our dead kid first? Do we let them break their siblings' arms? Do we push furniture against our bedroom doors when we can no longer stay awake in hopes that we will wake up alive in the morning? Do we hang ladders out our second story windows in case of an intentionally set fire? Do you even have a clue as to how bad it can be? I've just scratched the surface and I bet you cannot imagine the life some of us live.

When we get to the point of looking at sending our kids away for treatment, we are desperate and afraid for our kids and our families. We know the risks because if we didn't, we might have sent them away earlier. We also know the cost of not doing it and of doing it. So, please, if you have something to offer, do so. But to second guess our decision to move forward or to suggest that we haven't considered some unnamed alternative is hurtful when we are already crumbling under our pain and desperation. We love our kids and we are only hoping to figure out a way to get them healthy.

I’m sure you are doing this because you feel it is your last resort. However, there is no disputing that many “wilderness schools” have been abusive places that harm kids, not help. And also that some parents who use them are themselves abusive/neglectful and are using it to punish kids who are acting out in a dysfunctional family, not due to actual mental health concerns.

My experience of the latter (abusive families/abusive school) was from the 90s so of course things may have changed. Based on the feedback in this post, I now understand that there are boarding schools that are actually therepeutic (have doctors on staff, use conventional evidence based mental health therapies)that are in the wilderness and use the outdoors therepeutically, but are not “bootcamps.”

However the abusive “wilderness therapy” places still exist, as do the families that just want to get rid of their teens or punish/blame them instead of fixing the dysfunctional family with appropriate treatment.

Only you know which camp you are in.

You just can’t help yourself can you?

What part of what I wrote to you disagree with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have any experience with programs offered by Embark?

sounds horrific

https://www.reddit.com/r/troubledteens/comments/bkzsol/calo_teens_calo_of_embark_behavioral_health/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

Frankly, I'm not sure where one goes online to get a fair opinion of any of these places, but the r/troubledteens subreddit isn't it. Positive posts there are explicitly banned and removed:

"No posts praising a Troubled Teen Program.
No posts praising any Troubled Teen Program are allowed. If you believe that you had a 'good experience' in the TTI...then this is not the subreddit for you."

Here, you can read this reporting by the Salt Lake Tribune:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/08/30/inside-utahs-troubled/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well, that's an issue anywhere on the internet. Personally I think the negative posts are valuable insight as to how the program is run.

I'm sure you can get really good beach vacation suggestions by consulting with a shark attack survivors support group too.