Tiger Mom’s husband kept trying to bang his students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh. He tried to bang but could not bang. Big difference.

At least that’s all that was alleged in the formal complaint process...

Exactly. Plus the average YLS alum, especially one that got an assist from him after any alleged extracurricular activity, is likely very successful and would not want anyone knowing how they get a leg up, nor any drama in their life from this. Plus YLS produces a lot of future professors, so who would want their participation in this to leak, knowing it could impact their Ivory Tower career. I'd bet anyone involved had a "no comment" response to Yale investigators.

Probably. I was at YLS 15 years ago and it was rumored then that he slept with his female students. I would say "well known" except I, of course, didn't know anyone who'd actually admitted to doing it, nor anyone alleged to have done so, only that everyone said it went on. So, that's rumor. I never took a class with either of them. Based on the gossip mill he was super smarmy and she was flashy and more talk than substance, and I was more interested in black letter, basic law than cutting edge stuff. (Not why most people go to Yale, admittedly.)

It was gross then and it's gross now. Gross of the teacher and the student, although given the power dynamics the teacher is always more to blame. It's not like they have to sleep with anyone if propositioned. There was another exceedingly good-looking, brilliant young prof when I was there -- Noah Feldman, who's now at Harvard or Columbia I think -- and I never heard any rumors about him.

I was also at YLS 15 years ago. I knew someone who got very sucked into Jed’s world, but escaped before very much physical happened. It was more about him singling her out as special than about any particular job. He solicited her opinion about things, complemented her ideas, etc; he was very charming, not bad looking and in a position of power. My friend is a wonderful person who has always struggled with self-esteem. I completely understand how it happened.

I have also heard a specific name of someone he slept with for awhile. Call it a very reliable rumor mill. She did get a big clerkship out of it, FWIW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, she groomed female clerks to Kavanaugh’s liking, so apparently they both traded on the attractiveness of young women.

I don’t think you know what grooming means.

Yes, that wasn't that clear.

"She found mediocre conservative women who got ahead because of their willingness to take legal opinions that help conservative donors, and she got them to apply to work for a crony-capitalism judge, Kavanaugh."

Better?

[Anonymous]

I was at Duke Law when they were both there. She was a big hit among the students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe she can get a book deal out of it.

No question.

Tiger divorcee dating.

Totally. She was the one who mentored the Hillbilly Elegy author (I did not like his book).

Interesting, I grew up in a poor community not quite as downtrodden as the Hollow, but went on to an Ivy and thought I would relate more to that book than I did. I suspect her influence maybe part of it.

I grew up in a poor community too. Hillbilly Elegy stinks because it says poor people don't work hard. That's why conservatives and corporate types LOVE the book.

In actual fact, some of the hardest-working people I know are poor. Conservatives and the billionaires that fund their movement want to blame poor people for poverty, when really it's the donors that squash health care and unemployment and the minimum wage.

Hillbilly Elegy is a terrible book which sold a lot of copies because it fits rich peoples' agenda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at Duke Law when they were both there. She was a big hit among the students.

Can you jump on top of 'big hit' and expand a bit more?

[Anonymous]

Intent can't be proved. Action can. They are Kavanaugh's friends. What did you expect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe she can get a book deal out of it.

No question.

Tiger divorcee dating.

Totally. She was the one who mentored the Hillbilly Elegy author (I did not like his book).

Interesting, I grew up in a poor community not quite as downtrodden as the Hollow, but went on to an Ivy and thought I would relate more to that book than I did. I suspect her influence maybe part of it.

To me, his memoir reeked of fabricated and exaggerated bull****. Makes sense to learn he was groomed by these shameless creeps who will say or do anything to "get ahead".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh. He tried to bang but could not bang. Big difference.

Oh sweetie, you're naive. It's a numbers game; some say no, some say yes. Not all, but a few of my sorority sisters 30 years ago 100% would have hooked up with a professor for an A in a very tough course. That's just one undergrad course. Imagine the extent gals would go when $180,000 to 200,000 jobs and hyper-exclusive clerkships are on the line. Again, not every gal would, but of course SOME would eagerly hook up with him. Not to mention the average law student is a conniver -- you hook up with him, you have him by the balls. Clever YLS gals would exploit that to make sure he delivered the summer associate, clerkship, etc. help.

I agree. I knew a lot of YLS people and some were cool but definitely a large number of connivers—bright but conniving. The connivers were the ones who would do this stuff, the gunners were more out in the open re:their tactics.

I think the crowd after clerkships was often pretty bad. Probably because clerkships were so scarce and you had to kiss up to the right professors. The crowd after generic biglaw jobs was okay at Yale (enough of those in a non recession esp since Yale is smaller) other than a handful who decided it was Wachtell/Cravath or bust.

My oldest two daughters witnessed several "ambitious" undergraduate interns in SF and NYC eagerly hooking up with their managers to ensure favor and offers at the end of the summer. These were merely $60,000 to $80,000 entry level jobs. To act as if no cutthroat young ladies at YLS would ever hook up with a decent looking professor for a $180,000 to $200,000+ gig is very naive.

Eh, there are generally enough biglaw jobs to go around at YLS which has a small class size (some of which don't even want to go into biglaw) and a reputation as the most elite law school. You don't have to be top of the class to get a generic 180k NYC biglaw offer from YLS. You don't need professor's recs, either.

However, you DO have to be top the class at YLS to get a top clerkship, which many Yale students dream of. And a professor's word/recommendation counts for a LOT when it comes to clerkship hiring.

It's been a while since my son was in law school, please pardon me if this in inaccurate: Don't law students want a bag a prestigious clerkship to segue into a much higher starting salary at a white shoe firm than the peers they graduated with? ex, peers make $175,000 ... clerk glides into a $250,000 offer? Or perhaps that's just one of many reasons, I'm not sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to wrap my head around a cute and very smart 22-26 year old gal at the most prestigious law school in the US being propositioned by her professor.

Can one of you detail precisely how scarce are clerkships? There's also varying tiers of clerkships too, yes? And clerks don't make much money, do they, it's all about setting the table for exit opportunities? What's the big deal about clerking?

200 kids total per year at YLS and only a small % of each class (inc. m and f) is gunning for these clerkships, right? So a pervy professor's pool of clerkship-gunning females would be fairly shallow?

No, a big percent of the class at Yale is gunning for them--the culture of Yale is such that clerking at the highest levels (A top Court of Appeals judge followed by, ideally, the holy grail, Supreme Court) is considered the ultimate prize. The majority of the class wants them, not everyone gets them (about 40% do), and about 50% of the class will end up clerking at some point (some people will do something else for a couple years, then apply again to clerkships later).

https://law.yale.edu/student-life/career-development/employment-data/judicial-clerkship-employment

[Anonymous]

#metoo run wild. Over 30 years every guy is going to say something that they regret be it dropping an f-bomb, a sexist joke or any other stupid thing. The higher up you are in an organization or a university the more vulnerable you are to being brought down. Nothing in that article pointed to anything that was really abusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did this one make it in the book? These people are so morally empty.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/nyregion/jed-rubenfeld-yale.html?referringSource=articleShare

At first I thought this was about Tiger King.

Me too. Then I thought it was about Tiger Woods. Then I read the thread and it finally made sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh. He tried to bang but could not bang. Big difference.

Oh sweetie, you're naive. It's a numbers game; some say no, some say yes. Not all, but a few of my sorority sisters 30 years ago 100% would have hooked up with a professor for an A in a very tough course. That's just one undergrad course. Imagine the extent gals would go when $180,000 to 200,000 jobs and hyper-exclusive clerkships are on the line. Again, not every gal would, but of course SOME would eagerly hook up with him. Not to mention the average law student is a conniver -- you hook up with him, you have him by the balls. Clever YLS gals would exploit that to make sure he delivered the summer associate, clerkship, etc. help.

I agree. I knew a lot of YLS people and some were cool but definitely a large number of connivers—bright but conniving. The connivers were the ones who would do this stuff, the gunners were more out in the open re:their tactics.

I think the crowd after clerkships was often pretty bad. Probably because clerkships were so scarce and you had to kiss up to the right professors. The crowd after generic biglaw jobs was okay at Yale (enough of those in a non recession esp since Yale is smaller) other than a handful who decided it was Wachtell/Cravath or bust.

My oldest two daughters witnessed several "ambitious" undergraduate interns in SF and NYC eagerly hooking up with their managers to ensure favor and offers at the end of the summer. These were merely $60,000 to $80,000 entry level jobs. To act as if no cutthroat young ladies at YLS would ever hook up with a decent looking professor for a $180,000 to $200,000+ gig is very naive.

Eh, there are generally enough biglaw jobs to go around at YLS which has a small class size (some of which don't even want to go into biglaw) and a reputation as the most elite law school. You don't have to be top of the class to get a generic 180k NYC biglaw offer from YLS. You don't need professor's recs, either.

However, you DO have to be top the class at YLS to get a top clerkship, which many Yale students dream of. And a professor's word/recommendation counts for a LOT when it comes to clerkship hiring.

It's been a while since my son was in law school, please pardon me if this in inaccurate: Don't law students want a bag a prestigious clerkship to segue into a much higher starting salary at a white shoe firm than the peers they graduated with? ex, peers make $175,000 ... clerk glides into a $250,000 offer? Or perhaps that's just one of many reasons, I'm not sure.

That is one of many reasons. Basically a desired top-tier federal clerkship puts you in contention for a number of desirable outcomes, depending on your career path:
-Clerk signing bonus in biglaw
-It opens the door to very, very exclusive boutique firms. Williams and connolly, which does Supreme Court and appellate litigation, is one. They currently claim 20 former SCOTUS clerks and 230 former Court of Appeals clerks among employees.
-If you want to be a professor, breaking into the top tier of legal academia basically requires that you clerk, for the most part. Certain famous judges (e.g, Posner) have a reputation for being "academic feeder judges."
-You are immediately cosnidered an "experienced hire" for many DOJ jobs, including Assistant US Attorney jobs.

Pardon my typos, it's late. Also, it's been a while since I was in school but I think this info still holds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:#metoo run wild. Over 30 years every guy is going to say something that they regret be it dropping an f-bomb, a sexist joke or any other stupid thing. The higher up you are in an organization or a university the more vulnerable you are to being brought down. Nothing in that article pointed to anything that was really abusive.

And yet it is vanishingly rare for a tenured faculty member to have the hammer dropped on him like this. That suggests this prick has quite a bit more than a regretful f- bomb in his closet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm. I want more evidence before I pass judgement.

You think Yale suspended one of its most powerful law professors for fun? Uh, no.

PS I think you are totally wrong about Elizabeth Warren, who was incredibly popular and well-respected as a HLS professor, and I don't think you know her well enough to call her Liz.

Warren absolutely got her Harvard gig off her husband Bruce Mann's coattails -- he's the Carl F. Schipper, Jr. Professor of Law at Harvard Law School.

This is a load of bullshit. Warren and Bruce Mann both taught at Penn. Warren left Penn to teach at Harvard Law in 1995. Mann remained at Penn until 2006, then moved to Harvard.

Who followed who to Penn? Penn Harvard, tomato tomahto.

Way to move the goalposts there, troll.

But, in fact, Penn recruited Warren in 1987 based on her bankruptcy research, and found a spot for Mann as well. Not the other way around. But I'm sure you know her really well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh. He tried to bang but could not bang. Big difference.

At least that’s all that was alleged in the formal complaint process...

Exactly. Plus the average YLS alum, especially one that got an assist from him after any alleged extracurricular activity, is likely very successful and would not want anyone knowing how they get a leg up, nor any drama in their life from this. Plus YLS produces a lot of future professors, so who would want their participation in this to leak, knowing it could impact their Ivory Tower career. I'd bet anyone involved had a "no comment" response to Yale investigators.

Probably. I was at YLS 15 years ago and it was rumored then that he slept with his female students. I would say "well known" except I, of course, didn't know anyone who'd actually admitted to doing it, nor anyone alleged to have done so, only that everyone said it went on. So, that's rumor. I never took a class with either of them. Based on the gossip mill he was super smarmy and she was flashy and more talk than substance, and I was more interested in black letter, basic law than cutting edge stuff. (Not why most people go to Yale, admittedly.)

It was gross then and it's gross now. Gross of the teacher and the student, although given the power dynamics the teacher is always more to blame. It's not like they have to sleep with anyone if propositioned. There was another exceedingly good-looking, brilliant young prof when I was there -- Noah Feldman, who's now at Harvard or Columbia I think -- and I never heard any rumors about him.

I was also at YLS 15 years ago. I knew someone who got very sucked into Jed’s world, but escaped before very much physical happened. It was more about him singling her out as special than about any particular job. He solicited her opinion about things, complemented her ideas, etc; he was very charming, not bad looking and in a position of power. My friend is a wonderful person who has always struggled with self-esteem. I completely understand how it happened.

I have also heard a specific name of someone he slept with for awhile. Call it a very reliable rumor mill. She did get a big clerkship out of it, FWIW.

Other 15-year YLS person here. I believe you. I have never been very plugged into the rumor mill at any place I've lived or worked at, so for me to have heard rumors means they were seriously pervasive. Glad your friend got out, and hope she's doing better. I can see how difficult it would be to resist when it's flattery, especially intellectual flattery, rather than an outright proposition.

For the woman who slept with him, I hope she's doing better too. It's sad when stuff like that happens because for anyone who knows it went on, there will always be questions about whether she got that clerkship on her own merit. I wouldn't want to go through life feeling borderline fraudulent like that.

For another PP who asked about clerkships, something like 50% of YLS grads clerk at some point. Many do more than one clerkship (district court and appellate court). A very select few do Supreme Court clerkships, which usually requires having clerked for a very prestigious appellate judge (read, one who maybe also clerked for the Supreme Court and who has a reputation as an intellectual giant). Just about anyone at YLS who wants a clerkship could probably get one of some kind. The competition is over the appellate clerkships and especially the prestigious ones. Plenty of people don't want a clerkship at all -- if you don't plan to be a litigator, it's not much use other than as an additional year of training into how litigation operates, and of course bragging rights. Lots of YLSers want to teach, not practice law.

Personally, I did want to be a litigator and applied only to district courts. I didn't want to compete with the big guns going for appellate clerkships, and I didn't have any big-name professors in my corner. I also didn't want to do an appellate clerkship because everyone said it was like a fourth year of law school and I hated law school. I easily got a district court clerkship and it was wonderful. I learned a tremendous amount and it was practical application of the law, not the theoretical stuff we did at YLS, which I hated. Ironically I now practice appellate law and love it. Should've tacked on an appellate clerkship after my district court one, but I was stubborn and thought I had my career path planned out and that I'd never go anywhere near appellate anything. Oops.