What is the point of AAP? I am getting to the conclusion the only real benefit is to have my child

[Anonymous]

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Honestly, this is clearly a school issue then. I have two kids. One AAP and the other gen ed. They BOTH did vocab, book clubs and fun projects. They both also had critical and creative thinking lessons. You clearly need to address these concerns with your principal.

Of course it's a school issue. Schools with low FARMS and low ESOL populations can actually teach in gen ed. Schools with higher ones can't. Unfortunately, thanks to No Child Left Behind, schools are rated based on whether the bottom kids can meet a fairly low benchmark. So they focus all of their efforts on helping the bottom kids pass the SOL rather than doing much of anything for the kids who were already going to pass the SOL.

Our base school is an AAP center with a very low FARMS and ESOL population, and the general ed kids are definitely treated like second-class citizens. I was so glad that our second kid was selected for AAP because the AAP teachers have been much better than the gen ed teachers. We removed our older child from public after 4th grade because it was clear that, if you weren't in AAP, they were just babysitting you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:AAP isn't stressful for all. My kid has loved the experience. The work is definitely advanced but if you can learn at that level it isn't stressful at all. My kid balances AAP with a competitive travel sports team

AAP is especially unstressful now that so many schools don't give homework. It's not exactly hard to balance any ES programs with time intensive ECs, especially when the schools give so little homework. My child actually found AAP very stressful, but only because it was not very advanced and he was bored.

PP here. Our school gave homework daily in AAP and moved at a swift pace.

Still not an issue.

The "my kid was bored in AAP" parents always make me chuckle so thanks for that.

The solution is simple, offer a real G&T program for the top 2% of students.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:One small example from my kid at a LLIV: the AAP classroom taught the kids to write in cursive in 3rd-4th grades, even though it isn't technically required. The GenEd classrooms of the same grade were still focused on basic hand lettering and typing. The AAP teachers just seem to have extra time after getting through the basic curriculum to spend a little time on "extras" like this.

The AAP classroom also held kids to a much higher standard for neatness of written/typed work.

Everyone should be held to these standards not just one "special" subset. It's really horrific how FCPS basically has instilled a caste system into elementary and middle schools.

That too...SO early on.

It is not a caste system. People might mumble and complain about the kids who need pull outs for learning disabilities or delays but we all get it. we want to help kids get to the best place that they can be. We specialists to work with kids who are struggling for a reason. The main gripe I hear from parents in ES about this help is that it is expensive but people seem to intuitively understand that we should be helping all kids succeed.

Very bright kids, to include gifted kids, need specialized instruction as well in order to help them achieve their potential. The education curriculum has specialized classes that discuss kids with special needs and gifted kids in the same class because both groups need to receive material at a level that is appropriate to their needs. AAP is an attempt to meet those kids needs.

The issue with AAP is that FCPS can't decide what it is supposed to be. Should be a program for the demonstrably gifted, with high WISC scores or should be a program for bright kids who are high achieving in the general education classroom. Realistically speaking, both groups of kids need more than they are getting in the gen ed classroom, but their needs are still different.

I was a kid in resource support with learning disabilities, and later identified ADHD. I struggled with grade level math and my grammar still sucks. Foreign languages were a massive struggle for me. My DS is the exact opposite. He picks up concepts quickly, loves math puzzles and games, is a bookworm (ok so that was me as a kid), watches science shows on YouTube for fun, and loves building with anything he can get his hands on. He needs far more than what he can get in the regular classroom. We deferred moving to a center and Level IV placement because he loves his foreign language immersion program and he will be receiving Advanced Math. We will see how this year goes but we might move him in fourth grade.

We both needed different types of services to address our learning needs.

I wish FCPS would figure out AAP so that it works. I think every school should have Level IV in it. If the Local Level IV is not meeting the kids need, then use the centers for the kids who need more advanced work then in the local level IV. The issue that some people will have is that most schools will have one class for Level IV kids per grade, so no real room for changes in peers like at a center. The Pro would be that there would be a system in place to meet the needs of all kids and we could cut down on bussing costs.

It is not a caste system. It is a system that meets the needs of kids where they are and with what they require.

You clearly don't have an average child in GenEd in an AAP center school. It is truly awful how poorly those kids get treated and how subpar their education is. Even the ones whose parents can afford tutors. My average child doesn't need to be in AAP, but she DOES need to be challenged and she does need teachers who care about her instead of just ignoring her because she's doing "just fine". She's not doing just fine, teachers, we have to supplement her education because you're not doing jack shit for her.

I stand by my original statement, and as a Hindu, I know a thing or two about caste systems.

The supplement at home and push for access to AAP

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The problem is that in the non-AAP classes there are kids that are just barely existing. There are kids that the teachers can barely control. AAP is just a way to have what used to be called an actual classroom 40 years ago. I have no idea how we have progressed to students running wild in class, making noise, distractions, disobeying the teacher, etc. In my older son's 2nd grade class right before he split into level IV, there was a girl who would just sit and curse all day and scream at the teacher... IN SECOND GRADE! In my first grader's class this year there was a kid who literally did not participate in the class. He spent the entire running back and forth in the back of the room, throwing paper airplanes, hitting kids, and spitting on the teacher. Jesus christ.

just remember that if you choose a school district to avoid that, you're racist

AAP is what keeps me from having to do that, I hope. I'm just waiting for my younger one with a 146 NNAT to get rejected now because "equity."

So you are admitting that you are a racist. You want your kids to be in AAP because that's where the white and asian kids are and not the non-English speaking kids who act out in class.

High standards and focused behavior are not white and asian values. Anyone who who values education should be demanding the school encourages those standards and instills those values in their own kids.

Otherwise it's the soft racism of low expectations.

[Anonymous]

Man, I'm so glad to be in LCPS. How do you put up with all of this AAP BS? It sounds stressful and dysfunctional.

[Anonymous]

The biggest difference is driven by the need for the students to pass the SOLs at the end of the year. For the gen ed classes, it's pretty much taught to passing the SOLs and to the group within the class that needs the most intervention to be able to do so. If you know the content, quite often you are on the side doing busy work while the teacher helps the rest of the class at the same point. And reinforcement over and over of the concepts so that as many as possible can answer the questions correctly on the SOLs.

For AAP, they go over a subject and then move on, without over and over reinforcement, because they can move more quickly. Or they can go into more depth with fun side projects that are enriching. My favorite was "The Dig", where the AAP 5th history classes split into groups and created their own civilization with language, religion, government, culture, appearance, location, etc. Each student created an artifact about their portion of the civilization, then all the teams buried their artifacts in the morning on Dig day. In the afternoon, another team digs up their artifacts on an archeology plot grid and examines the artifacts, seeing what they can glean about the other team's civilization from the artifacts. It was so frickin cool. That night parents were able to come in, talk to the teams and see the artifacts. It was impressive.

Every year the teachers wanted to include gen ed kids in "The Dig" but couldn't because you had to speed through the SOL content to have time to do it. Some of the gen ed population couldn't go that fast, and how do you choose which ones can without it being a big can of worms? So it was limited to AAP kids.

That is an example of why you do AAP if you can.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am an AAP teacher who also taught gen ed in the same grade level. Honestly my experiences as a teacher have been night and day. I feel I can do so much more in AAP and got my creativity back as a teacher. They content is the same but the way it is taught is different. There is a lot more critical thinking and a lot more flexibility in the schedule to teach grammar, word study and do fun projects. All of the kids are reading on or above grade level so it is easy to do book clubs. I honestly love it!

This was my experience too as an AAP teacher! I was absolutely able to use best practices and do really creative lessons/group work. My kids were motivated, polite, and on the whole well behaved. Parents were very involved. It was fun!

Don't you think this is incredibly unfair to bright kids in a gen ed classroom? My child is motivated, polite, very well behaved, but doesn't test well and is a little bit behind grade level in reading (but not in comprehension), so she's not going to get into LLIV even though I know she would thrive in this type of classroom and because she's quiet and shy, she gets ignored in GenEd and it's going to set her behind everyone. AAP is really unfair to children like her who also deserve the best but don't get it because of some stupid test and biased teachers such as yourselves.

There are bright kids in general ED too. From your own description it doesn't sound like your child is gifted or even advanced. It sounds like she is right where she needs to be.

So she doesn't deserve to be taught creative thinking, grammar, word study, or do fun projects? She doesn't deserve to be in a class where they do book clubs? AAP parents and their entitlement disgust me.

What's stopping you from lobbying your principal and school board member to get those things included?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am an AAP teacher who also taught gen ed in the same grade level. Honestly my experiences as a teacher have been night and day. I feel I can do so much more in AAP and got my creativity back as a teacher. They content is the same but the way it is taught is different. There is a lot more critical thinking and a lot more flexibility in the schedule to teach grammar, word study and do fun projects. All of the kids are reading on or above grade level so it is easy to do book clubs. I honestly love it!

This was my experience too as an AAP teacher! I was absolutely able to use best practices and do really creative lessons/group work. My kids were motivated, polite, and on the whole well behaved. Parents were very involved. It was fun!

Don't you think this is incredibly unfair to bright kids in a gen ed classroom? My child is motivated, polite, very well behaved, but doesn't test well and is a little bit behind grade level in reading (but not in comprehension), so she's not going to get into LLIV even though I know she would thrive in this type of classroom and because she's quiet and shy, she gets ignored in GenEd and it's going to set her behind everyone. AAP is really unfair to children like her who also deserve the best but don't get it because of some stupid test and biased teachers such as yourselves.

There are bright kids in general ED too. From your own description it doesn't sound like your child is gifted or even advanced. It sounds like she is right where she needs to be.

So she doesn't deserve to be taught creative thinking, grammar, word study, or do fun projects? She doesn't deserve to be in a class where they do book clubs? AAP parents and their entitlement disgust me.

What's stopping you from lobbying your principal and school board member to get those things included?

NP. I don't know where everyone else lives, but parents at our base school have lobbied relentlessly to get a LLIV program in place for the better part of a decade. I know at least a dozen people who have brought it up at PTA meetings, visited SB their SB member's offices, talked to the regional superintendent, etc. If the principal is not on board, it's a non-starter, especially if your school board member isn't in your neighborhood. If anyone on here has done this successfully, please share your tips.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am an AAP teacher who also taught gen ed in the same grade level. Honestly my experiences as a teacher have been night and day. I feel I can do so much more in AAP and got my creativity back as a teacher. They content is the same but the way it is taught is different. There is a lot more critical thinking and a lot more flexibility in the schedule to teach grammar, word study and do fun projects. All of the kids are reading on or above grade level so it is easy to do book clubs. I honestly love it!

This was my experience too as an AAP teacher! I was absolutely able to use best practices and do really creative lessons/group work. My kids were motivated, polite, and on the whole well behaved. Parents were very involved. It was fun!

Don't you think this is incredibly unfair to bright kids in a gen ed classroom? My child is motivated, polite, very well behaved, but doesn't test well and is a little bit behind grade level in reading (but not in comprehension), so she's not going to get into LLIV even though I know she would thrive in this type of classroom and because she's quiet and shy, she gets ignored in GenEd and it's going to set her behind everyone. AAP is really unfair to children like her who also deserve the best but don't get it because of some stupid test and biased teachers such as yourselves.

There are bright kids in general ED too. From your own description it doesn't sound like your child is gifted or even advanced. It sounds like she is right where she needs to be.

So she doesn't deserve to be taught creative thinking, grammar, word study, or do fun projects? She doesn't deserve to be in a class where they do book clubs? AAP parents and their entitlement disgust me.

What's stopping you from lobbying your principal and school board member to get those things included?

NP. I don't know where everyone else lives, but parents at our base school have lobbied relentlessly to get a LLIV program in place for the better part of a decade. I know at least a dozen people who have brought it up at PTA meetings, visited SB their SB member's offices, talked to the regional superintendent, etc. If the principal is not on board, it's a non-starter, especially if your school board member isn't in your neighborhood. If anyone on here has done this successfully, please share your tips.

You don't want local level IV, it has all the of the problems of AAP but none of the benefits.

You want more robust teaching and/or pull outs. Creative thinking, word study, grammar, book club, these aren't AAP subjects, these are just good teaching. Ask for what you want, ask for the right things. Not the wrong things.

[Anonymous]

The plan is to eventually get LL4 in all ES. Unfortunately, the way they do it is start by grade level. So once one starts, it is just Grade3. The following year will be Grade 3 and 4. It takes a while to have an established program. There are def benefits to staying at base school but there are cons as well.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an AAP teacher who also taught gen ed in the same grade level. Honestly my experiences as a teacher have been night and day. I feel I can do so much more in AAP and got my creativity back as a teacher. They content is the same but the way it is taught is different. There is a lot more critical thinking and a lot more flexibility in the schedule to teach grammar, word study and do fun projects. All of the kids are reading on or above grade level so it is easy to do book clubs. I honestly love it!

This was my experience too as an AAP teacher! I was absolutely able to use best practices and do really creative lessons/group work. My kids were motivated, polite, and on the whole well behaved. Parents were very involved. It was fun!

Don't you think this is incredibly unfair to bright kids in a gen ed classroom? My child is motivated, polite, very well behaved, but doesn't test well and is a little bit behind grade level in reading (but not in comprehension), so she's not going to get into LLIV even though I know she would thrive in this type of classroom and because she's quiet and shy, she gets ignored in GenEd and it's going to set her behind everyone. AAP is really unfair to children like her who also deserve the best but don't get it because of some stupid test and biased teachers such as yourselves.

There are bright kids in general ED too. From your own description it doesn't sound like your child is gifted or even advanced. It sounds like she is right where she needs to be.

So she doesn't deserve to be taught creative thinking, grammar, word study, or do fun projects? She doesn't deserve to be in a class where they do book clubs? AAP parents and their entitlement disgust me.

What's stopping you from lobbying your principal and school board member to get those things included?

NP. I don't know where everyone else lives, but parents at our base school have lobbied relentlessly to get a LLIV program in place for the better part of a decade. I know at least a dozen people who have brought it up at PTA meetings, visited SB their SB member's offices, talked to the regional superintendent, etc. If the principal is not on board, it's a non-starter, especially if your school board member isn't in your neighborhood. If anyone on here has done this successfully, please share your tips.

You don't want local level IV, it has all the of the problems of AAP but none of the benefits.

You want more robust teaching and/or pull outs. Creative thinking, word study, grammar, book club, these aren't AAP subjects, these are just good teaching. Ask for what you want, ask for the right things. Not the wrong things.

I respectfully disagree, at least in our case. We have a part-time AART and an anemic Level III program because of it. The principal is a lot more interested in bringing up the bottom than doing anything for the top/ middle. People have asked for all the stuff you've mentioned and while the teachers are great, they are under a lot of heat to get the lower students to pass the SOL. We do have parents who lead book clubs and continental math league, which is nice, but there's still a lot lacking. This seems to be very common in schools that aren't quite Title I and have no LLIV.

[Anonymous]

We are at a Language Immersion school that has no interest in a Local Level IV program. On the plus side, the school was losing enough of the LI kids to the Center that it started to teach Advanced Math in the LI class in third grade. We are staying at the base school this year because we like the language, because DS does not want to leave his friends, because we know he will get Advanced Math and regular pull outs, and because we thought starting a new school with COVID happening was not a good choice for DS.

Talking to the Teachers, the Principal, and other parents at the school, Level IV is not something they see as having much value. Their attitude about it is actually pretty bad. I had one Teacher ask why anyone would want their child taking Algebra in 7th grade? I have no idea if DS will qualify for Algebra in 7th grade but if he is capable of taking the class, I think it is a good option.

Level IV is probably seen as another resource drain at many schools, especially smaller schools. If the County simply said that it was happening and provided a Teacher for each grade, it would happen. They could put the Level IV kids in the full time class and have the level III kids come in for the specific subject as needed. Save the centers for kids who test in the top 2%. It would reduce the number of classes at the center. The Center AAP teachers would teach the school based AAP or the GT class. The others could teach Gen Ed classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Man, I'm so glad to be in LCPS. How do you put up with all of this AAP BS? It sounds stressful and dysfunctional.

People chill out as their kids get older. LCPS has always seemed kind of basic and cookie-cutter, so I'm happy to have the additional differentiation and options offered in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Man, I'm so glad to be in LCPS. How do you put up with all of this AAP BS? It sounds stressful and dysfunctional.

People chill out as their kids get older. LCPS has always seemed kind of basic and cookie-cutter, so I'm happy to have the additional differentiation and options offered in FCPS.

It is stressful and dysfunctional. And makes no difference in the long run. There is no meaningful differentiation or options.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Man, I'm so glad to be in LCPS. How do you put up with all of this AAP BS? It sounds stressful and dysfunctional.

People chill out as their kids get older. LCPS has always seemed kind of basic and cookie-cutter, so I'm happy to have the additional differentiation and options offered in FCPS.

It is stressful and dysfunctional. And makes no difference in the long run. There is no meaningful differentiation or options.

The value of AAP, such as it is, is not for the long run. It's for 3rd grade, 4th grade, 5th 6rade, and 6th grade.

Certainly the value varies by school, teacher, and child. The value has been described in some posts upthread. YMMV