Jk Rowling/Transphobia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

Women spend a lot of time talking about pregnancy, birthing babies, body changes, breast feeding and on and on. Those are pretty powerful connections. So, none? Really? Do you know many women?

I did talk to a few women about miscarriages, but was never able to talk about pregnancy, birthing, breastfeeding, etc.

Not all women give birth.

The ones who do talk about it openly and often especially the younger the kids. Funny that you couldn't even think of that experience though. Like, something is missing from this list, whatever could it be? Women spend hours trading horror stories around kitchen tables. But I guess you don't consider that a meaningful connection.

In 2021?

I hang out with friends of various genders and child-rearing status. Sometimes we talk about work or kids or traveling or politics or ailments or relationships or whatever. Very, very little of it involves "female" experiences. Really just perimenopause at this point - and that isn't very often.

I share lots of connections, just not a lot of "female" connections.

Yes, in 2021. People have other conversations when you're not there, believe it or not. If you don't have kids this topic might not come up in front of you.

I have kids. I just didn't have any pregnancy last more than 8 weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

Women spend a lot of time talking about pregnancy, birthing babies, body changes, breast feeding and on and on. Those are pretty powerful connections. So, none? Really? Do you know many women?

I did talk to a few women about miscarriages, but was never able to talk about pregnancy, birthing, breastfeeding, etc.

Not all women give birth.

The ones who do talk about it openly and often especially the younger the kids. Funny that you couldn't even think of that experience though. Like, something is missing from this list, whatever could it be? Women spend hours trading horror stories around kitchen tables. But I guess you don't consider that a meaningful connection.

Those were the few that *I* experienced and could share with others. My point is that "woman" experiences vary from person to person.

There are not that many variations. Sorry. Something like 86% of women give birth at some point in their lives. There will always be outliers but the vast majority of women share this experience. Quite a lot of overlap of this "woman" experience across women.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/01/18/theyre-waiting-longer-but-u-s-women-today-more-likely-to-have-children-than-a-decade-ago/

OK - but for what % of your life are you talking about pregnancy or breastfeeding? Those are such short periods of time in our lives.

And that makes up the majority of your connection with some people? Not activities or parenting or music or other interests?

I said "especially" the younger the kid, less so as they get older. But it still comes up. And people who have kids tend to be around other people who have kids so a lot of the conversation are kid centric. If I was hanging out with people who didn't have kids, we'd talk about something else. And short period of life? I personally was pregnant or nursing for 8 years of my life. Not insignificant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

Women spend a lot of time talking about pregnancy, birthing babies, body changes, breast feeding and on and on. Those are pretty powerful connections. So, none? Really? Do you know many women?

I did talk to a few women about miscarriages, but was never able to talk about pregnancy, birthing, breastfeeding, etc.

Not all women give birth.

The ones who do talk about it openly and often especially the younger the kids. Funny that you couldn't even think of that experience though. Like, something is missing from this list, whatever could it be? Women spend hours trading horror stories around kitchen tables. But I guess you don't consider that a meaningful connection.

In 2021?

I hang out with friends of various genders and child-rearing status. Sometimes we talk about work or kids or traveling or politics or ailments or relationships or whatever. Very, very little of it involves "female" experiences. Really just perimenopause at this point - and that isn't very often.

I share lots of connections, just not a lot of "female" connections.

Yes, in 2021. People have other conversations when you're not there, believe it or not. If you don't have kids this topic might not come up in front of you.

I have kids. I just didn't have any pregnancy last more than 8 weeks.

Ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

Women spend a lot of time talking about pregnancy, birthing babies, body changes, breast feeding and on and on. Those are pretty powerful connections. So, none? Really? Do you know many women?

I did talk to a few women about miscarriages, but was never able to talk about pregnancy, birthing, breastfeeding, etc.

Not all women give birth.

The ones who do talk about it openly and often especially the younger the kids. Funny that you couldn't even think of that experience though. Like, something is missing from this list, whatever could it be? Women spend hours trading horror stories around kitchen tables. But I guess you don't consider that a meaningful connection.

Those were the few that *I* experienced and could share with others. My point is that "woman" experiences vary from person to person.

There are not that many variations. Sorry. Something like 86% of women give birth at some point in their lives. There will always be outliers but the vast majority of women share this experience. Quite a lot of overlap of this "woman" experience across women.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/01/18/theyre-waiting-longer-but-u-s-women-today-more-likely-to-have-children-than-a-decade-ago/

OK - but for what % of your life are you talking about pregnancy or breastfeeding? Those are such short periods of time in our lives.

And that makes up the majority of your connection with some people? Not activities or parenting or music or other interests?

I said "especially" the younger the kid, less so as they get older. But it still comes up. And people who have kids tend to be around other people who have kids so a lot of the conversation are kid centric. If I was hanging out with people who didn't have kids, we'd talk about something else. And short period of life? I personally was pregnant or nursing for 8 years of my life. Not insignificant.

wow, how many kids did you have?

I do have kids and do talk about kids with parent friends. we don't really have that many parenting topics that are "female" specific. (our next door neighbor is a SAHD)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

Women spend a lot of time talking about pregnancy, birthing babies, body changes, breast feeding and on and on. Those are pretty powerful connections. So, none? Really? Do you know many women?

I did talk to a few women about miscarriages, but was never able to talk about pregnancy, birthing, breastfeeding, etc.

Not all women give birth.

The ones who do talk about it openly and often especially the younger the kids. Funny that you couldn't even think of that experience though. Like, something is missing from this list, whatever could it be? Women spend hours trading horror stories around kitchen tables. But I guess you don't consider that a meaningful connection.

Those were the few that *I* experienced and could share with others. My point is that "woman" experiences vary from person to person.

There are not that many variations. Sorry. Something like 86% of women give birth at some point in their lives. There will always be outliers but the vast majority of women share this experience. Quite a lot of overlap of this "woman" experience across women.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/01/18/theyre-waiting-longer-but-u-s-women-today-more-likely-to-have-children-than-a-decade-ago/

OK - but for what % of your life are you talking about pregnancy or breastfeeding? Those are such short periods of time in our lives.

And that makes up the majority of your connection with some people? Not activities or parenting or music or other interests?

I said "especially" the younger the kid, less so as they get older. But it still comes up. And people who have kids tend to be around other people who have kids so a lot of the conversation are kid centric. If I was hanging out with people who didn't have kids, we'd talk about something else. And short period of life? I personally was pregnant or nursing for 8 years of my life. Not insignificant.

wow, how many kids did you have?

I do have kids and do talk about kids with parent friends. we don't really have that many parenting topics that are "female" specific. (our next door neighbor is a SAHD)

I have 3 kids, if you factor in pregnancy at about a year each, breastfeeding for a year each, and a few miscarriages, there you go. For people with more than 1 kid this isn't unusual. There are loads of things I talk to the other women about I would never talk to the dads about. "Hey, SAHD got any advice on this clogged milk duct?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

Women spend a lot of time talking about pregnancy, birthing babies, body changes, breast feeding and on and on. Those are pretty powerful connections. So, none? Really? Do you know many women?

I did talk to a few women about miscarriages, but was never able to talk about pregnancy, birthing, breastfeeding, etc.

Not all women give birth.

The ones who do talk about it openly and often especially the younger the kids. Funny that you couldn't even think of that experience though. Like, something is missing from this list, whatever could it be? Women spend hours trading horror stories around kitchen tables. But I guess you don't consider that a meaningful connection.

Those were the few that *I* experienced and could share with others. My point is that "woman" experiences vary from person to person.

There are not that many variations. Sorry. Something like 86% of women give birth at some point in their lives. There will always be outliers but the vast majority of women share this experience. Quite a lot of overlap of this "woman" experience across women.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/01/18/theyre-waiting-longer-but-u-s-women-today-more-likely-to-have-children-than-a-decade-ago/

OK - but for what % of your life are you talking about pregnancy or breastfeeding? Those are such short periods of time in our lives.

And that makes up the majority of your connection with some people? Not activities or parenting or music or other interests?

I said "especially" the younger the kid, less so as they get older. But it still comes up. And people who have kids tend to be around other people who have kids so a lot of the conversation are kid centric. If I was hanging out with people who didn't have kids, we'd talk about something else. And short period of life? I personally was pregnant or nursing for 8 years of my life. Not insignificant.

wow, how many kids did you have?

I do have kids and do talk about kids with parent friends. we don't really have that many parenting topics that are "female" specific. (our next door neighbor is a SAHD)

I have 3 kids, if you factor in pregnancy at about a year each, breastfeeding for a year each, and a few miscarriages, there you go. For people with more than 1 kid this isn't unusual. There are loads of things I talk to the other women about I would never talk to the dads about. "Hey, SAHD got any advice on this clogged milk duct?"

yes, and you also wouldn't ask me or any of the other moms who didn't BF.

but I'm sure we'd have a lot of other (non-female) things to chat about...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

Women spend a lot of time talking about pregnancy, birthing babies, body changes, breast feeding and on and on. Those are pretty powerful connections. So, none? Really? Do you know many women?

I did talk to a few women about miscarriages, but was never able to talk about pregnancy, birthing, breastfeeding, etc.

Not all women give birth.

The ones who do talk about it openly and often especially the younger the kids. Funny that you couldn't even think of that experience though. Like, something is missing from this list, whatever could it be? Women spend hours trading horror stories around kitchen tables. But I guess you don't consider that a meaningful connection.

Those were the few that *I* experienced and could share with others. My point is that "woman" experiences vary from person to person.

There are not that many variations. Sorry. Something like 86% of women give birth at some point in their lives. There will always be outliers but the vast majority of women share this experience. Quite a lot of overlap of this "woman" experience across women.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/01/18/theyre-waiting-longer-but-u-s-women-today-more-likely-to-have-children-than-a-decade-ago/

OK - but for what % of your life are you talking about pregnancy or breastfeeding? Those are such short periods of time in our lives.

And that makes up the majority of your connection with some people? Not activities or parenting or music or other interests?

I said "especially" the younger the kid, less so as they get older. But it still comes up. And people who have kids tend to be around other people who have kids so a lot of the conversation are kid centric. If I was hanging out with people who didn't have kids, we'd talk about something else. And short period of life? I personally was pregnant or nursing for 8 years of my life. Not insignificant.

wow, how many kids did you have?

I do have kids and do talk about kids with parent friends. we don't really have that many parenting topics that are "female" specific. (our next door neighbor is a SAHD)

I have 3 kids, if you factor in pregnancy at about a year each, breastfeeding for a year each, and a few miscarriages, there you go. For people with more than 1 kid this isn't unusual. There are loads of things I talk to the other women about I would never talk to the dads about. "Hey, SAHD got any advice on this clogged milk duct?"

yes, and you also wouldn't ask me or any of the other moms who didn't BF.

but I'm sure we'd have a lot of other (non-female) things to chat about...

There are zero men, outside of an OB/GYN I would ask. 100% of the people I would ask would be women, but not 100% of women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

+1 This reminds me, a car salesman didn't want to let me test drive a car once, wanted to know if my husband was there. I wasn't even married at the time. I bought that car myself but made sure to go to another dealer across town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

+1 This reminds me, a car salesman didn't want to let me test drive a car once, wanted to know if my husband was there. I wasn't even married at the time. I bought that car myself but made sure to go to another dealer across town.

I wonder if that guy would have been a jerk to a transwoman as well...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

I realize we must be responding to a man, but I’ll bite. It’s not that the conversation is centered around these things, but there is an understanding of experience that comes with being a woman. We literally live our lives differently than men. How many men do you know who change the route they walk home based on the season? The way we move through life is totally different because women have evolved to survive living on a planet with men.